I'm a GF with a 70-0 record and about 20 deaths. 14 of those deaths were to mass dcing of the game because Rivenscar map is broken and I'm unable to use my main stamina regen skill since that crashes the game on top of oppressive force and HG, and the other 6 were from TR's. Video's posted of those shweaty matches. So, the only thing stronger than TR's in PvP is the game crashing you and making you restart and log back in while your body gets beat on as it's frozen.
Hey now... I left your dc' toon alone in our match yesterday. Just bc a person is playing a Tr doesn't mean he's also classless .
My main is a gwf and even when I specced him for pvp I got mollywhopped. Decided to roll a tr then and have consecutively placed in top 3 every match (with the exception of one match against 2 clerics and 3 control wizards, I couldn't do a thing lol). That being said I have to say that I do feel rogues are op in pvp. It's just too easy to get kills with them as they do so much damage and when we start taking damage we can just pop stealth and pretty much one-hit whomever was attacking us. I think that other classes need to get boosts in pvp or nerf rogues somewhat. Also even as a pvp spec rogue I can usually place top in damage for dungeons. Rogues are beasts. I love my gwf, but honestly I never place in top damage with him even as a high crit/ap build.
Honestly, I do think if you spec a character correctly you can take down a TR.
My main used to be a SW which, in PVP, was beyond hopeless. Now I have a TR which I use mostly as my main. But in PvP I have been taken down by CW's, HR's, other TR's, hell I was almost killed by a GWF because he stunned me for ages. I'd say for a GWF, the more stuns you can get, the better.
I use Impossible to catch but not even that saved me from the constant stuns of a GWF.
Please advise what spec will help you while you are perma stunned by TR. Thank you.
Sometimes you have bad luck. I don't waste my time with perma stealth rogues just going around in circles for the entire game while going invisible. But its the paragon Whisperknife what does the stuns.
Getting PvP armor is always a good option to reduce taken damage. Ultimately, I suppose it's down to what character you are and what skills you have at your disposal. AND whether you're built for PvE or PvP.
I call BS. At a rate of "No rewards" to 100 glory, it'll take months to get any decent gear. A TR is capable of being awesome at PvP without gear. Hell, they can take down 2-3 casters with only a sliver of life. Stealth means I can't fight back, stuns means I can't fight back, being one-shot means I can't fight back. TR just want free kills without having to fight for it.
There's no super-secret, just-got-to-find-it build that will beat a rogue.
I can't believe the developers are this incompetent.
Please advise what spec will help you while you are perma stunned by TR. Thank you.
Sometimes you have bad luck. I don't waste my time with perma stealth rogues just going around in circles for the entire game while going invisible. But its the paragon Whisperknife what does the stuns.
Getting PvP armor is always a good option to reduce taken damage. Ultimately, I suppose it's down to what character you are and what skills you have at your disposal. AND whether you're built for PvE or PvP.
I appreciate what you're saying but some of their attacks ignore all of your gear anyway. It's all rather fruitless. Only defense is more HP.
Here's one last night. Being a Rogue must be hard, since this guy is probably geared better than me (I'm at 14,700 GS, 40,000 HP, 933 Tenacity, 3,300 Defense) yet he feels the need to abuse SoD glitch.
I kept going at this guy trying to take the point back. I don't know if he was AFK or what but we were originally winning until he decided to wake up from his nap and go on a rampage, single handedly winning the game for his team. Must be nice to be TR. As long as you don't have a conscience I guess.
Here I jump off mount and try to sprint to avoid his first hit, but nope. So he takes off a good chunk and I have no sprint left. Then the SoD later procs for 16,000. Lol.
This one just for laughs because I'm at half health. Need a suicide button so I can just go back to the GY and start over rather than getting one shotted.
When playing my rogue I have found the thing I have most trouble dealing with is when people keep their distance. Once I've run out of rolls as long as they don't let me get too close then they stand a pretty good chance at killing me (unless they are under-geared of course in which case I can still usually kill them). So I would say your best bet is if you see a rogue go stealth then back away until they un-stealth. As for the perma stuns I have never run that so can't really help you with that. If you are a gwf and have your unstoppable up then that will get you out of stun but don't know about other classes.
Getting PvP armor is always a good option to reduce taken damage. Ultimately, I suppose it's down to what character you are and what skills you have at your disposal. AND whether you're built for PvE or PvP.
It's not damage per se that bothers me, it is inability to use "skills that I have at my disposal" because of stun lock. I do understand that GWFs can easily do the same to you, but, as far as I remember, they are not invisible. So if you see huge barbarian coming to you with large two-handed sword and do nothing, well, you are asking for trouble. In case of rogues I don't really have any choice: stun lock from invisibility -> respawn point.
Getting PvP armor is always a good option to reduce taken damage. Ultimately, I suppose it's down to what character you are and what skills you have at your disposal. AND whether you're built for PvE or PvP.
It's not damage per se that bothers me, it is inability to use "skills that I have at my disposal" because of stun lock. I do understand that GWFs can easily do the same to you, but, as far as I remember, they are not invisible. So if you see huge barbarian coming to you with large two-handed sword and do nothing, well, you are asking for trouble. In case of rogues I don't really have any choice: stun lock from invisibility -> respawn point.
it is because Rogues are so broken right now that all of their paragons can be playable on PvP, when compared to other classes that have at most two playable paragons.
Please advise what spec will help you while you are perma stunned by TR. Thank you.
Sometimes you have bad luck. I don't waste my time with perma stealth rogues just going around in circles for the entire game while going invisible. But its the paragon Whisperknife what does the stuns.
Getting PvP armor is always a good option to reduce taken damage. Ultimately, I suppose it's down to what character you are and what skills you have at your disposal. AND whether you're built for PvE or PvP.
It is good you mentioned that. check my topic on feedback forum and check my videos. i am a gwf with above 50k hp, high deflection and dr. the thing about trs is that their skills pierce all of that, so even if you mitigate their base damage you will still die from the piercing damage (piercing damage ignores tenacity pvp resistance, ignores damage resistance, and ignoresdeflection, and ignores also our only class feature Unstoppable extra damage resistance (which is the same thing as stealth for rogues). If you go sentinel super tanky, or as destroyer against a rogue, there is not much difference on your survivavity because of these stuff.
on executioner feats (besides doing insane and stupid damage of lashing blades of 30k (remember always crit and hits 50% harder from stealth), the shadow of demise ignores all your dr/deflection etc.
against a saboteur that has shadow opportunity (piercing damage), you will die the same. Other day in a premade I died against a rogue called blackpaige that is spect into DPS saboteur. he killed me with at wills even with all my hp and deflection. I couldn't make from node 2 to base alive while he was just throwing daggers at me.
the problem is, when you fight a tr with their broken dps like that, it is a problem because their combination of stealth+high deflection chance+high deflection severity+almost four dodges, it is very hard to be able to counter attack a strong tr. they dominate the pvp completely because they kill fast and they are almost untouchable. unless they mess up on their dodges and stealth, it is almost impossible to hit them. and even if you hit, they mitigate 75% of your damage if they deflect something. Also, I think it is good to remember that trs have also a natural CC resistance higher than other classes, so as a GWF you stun a tr, they just pop out of it as nothing happened.
the ones I can fight better are scoundrels because they dont have piercing damage, but they have a long dazing duration that makes any other class unable to play.
just remember that all those features mentioned above were nerfed on PC and rogues are still very powerful. this tells that we need those fixes on xbox also.
whoever agrees with me, and want a more balanced pvp please post on this thread:
When playing my rogue I have found the thing I have most trouble dealing with is when people keep their distance. Once I've run out of rolls as long as they don't let me get too close then they stand a pretty good chance at killing me (unless they are under-geared of course in which case I can still usually kill them). So I would say your best bet is if you see a rogue go stealth then back away until they un-stealth. As for the perma stuns I have never run that so can't really help you with that. If you are a gwf and have your unstoppable up then that will get you out of stun but don't know about other classes.
remember the pvp on this game is domination. You can't just back off without giving your enemy points, and the victory. it would make sense in another pvp mode like death match or something, but even so, they would destroy everyone.
also, there are builds that they can maintain "perma stealth". it is not that easy.
I'm not saying you have to stay off of the node. You just have to back off long enough to lure them away or for reinforcements to arrive. If they are following you trying to kill you then they are not on the node either. Also for the control wizard guy, they are probably the 3rd or 4th hardest class for me to kill as a rogue. Again as long as they keep their distance and can use that choke hold ability then usually they can last long enough for their teammates to arrive and finish me off. The class I have the most difficulty with really is the cleric. Between their heals, shackle, sliding, and the aoe burst that pushes me back it is pretty difficult to reach them.
I'm not saying you have to stay off of the node. You just have to back off long enough to lure them away or for reinforcements to arrive. If they are following you trying to kill you then they are not on the node either. Also for the control wizard guy, they are probably the 3rd or 4th hardest class for me to kill as a rogue. Again as long as they keep their distance and can use that choke hold ability then usually they can last long enough for their teammates to arrive and finish me off. The class I have the most difficulty with really is the cleric. Between their heals, shackle, sliding, and the aoe burst that pushes me back it is pretty difficult to reach them.
it is still not like that. if they have the node, and you try to lure. there are two things:
one, if they follow ok, but your team will bleed, and on a competitive pvp match every single point on a node counts toward the victory;therefore, it does not work so good.
second, if they have the node, they actually should be fighting off point. so if you try to lure them you will be actually doing what they want and not really helping your team.
Sometimes I play against a team with multiple rogues, all I do is throw my body on the point waiting to die. sacrificing myself...
in case they don't have the node, then it is good to lure, but only a really bad player will actually chase you off node if they don't have the node to be honest.
can't really rely much on backup when a TR can hold at least two players on him nowadays, or when some teams run <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> comps of a minimum of 3 rogues. remember every rogue is a node holder and a killer, in that case all of the other nodes will be having to deal with trs... the game will be even more unbalanced when all trs realize that and start to run only sabs...
Ya I'm not disagreeing that rogues are OP btw. I'm just trying to share some of my experience while playing rogue in which other have proven successful or semi successful against me. If I'm trying to capture a node then as a non-ranged class I'm not gonna want to just stand there taking ranged attacks to the face trying to hold the node as that would cause a swift death. Also if I'm trying to hold a node then your best bet would be to keep your distance and attack from afar if you are a ranged class. Again I'm prob gonna try to chase you instead of just taking attacks. That's just my input. I'm by no means a professional, but I would venture to guess that a majority of people who play rogues are not either and probably have like mindsets.
Also for the control wizard guy, they are probably the 3rd or 4th hardest class for me to kill as a rogue. Again as long as they keep their distance and can use that choke hold ability then usually they can last long enough for their teammates to arrive and finish me off.
The problem is you can't keep the distance if you are stunned or dead
The biggest mistake a lot of people make when fighting rogues is trying to take them on one-on-one in close combat. You will get rekt 9 times outta 10.
Ya I'm not disagreeing that rogues are OP btw. I'm just trying to share some of my experience while playing rogue in which other have proven successful or semi successful against me. If I'm trying to capture a node then as a non-ranged class I'm not gonna want to just stand there taking ranged attacks to the face trying to hold the node as that would cause a swift death. Also if I'm trying to hold a node then your best bet would be to keep your distance and attack from afar if you are a ranged class. Again I'm prob gonna try to chase you instead of just taking attacks. That's just my input. I'm by no means a professional, but I would venture to guess that a majority of people who play rogues are not either and probably have like mindsets.
please, don't think I was being a jerk when I replied. I actually appreciate your feedback. What I was trying to say, it may work on some cases. But when you play a lot of premades versus premades, those strategies are a little bit not enough to deal with rogues.
The biggest mistake a lot of people make when fighting rogues is trying to take them on one-on-one in close combat. You will get rekt 9 times outta 10.
of course. and by doing that you "lose" a player on some other node. But what do you do then when the opponent team is stacking 3 our 4 trs with a DC? you can't bring ten people in a match against them. Also, not sure why in this game a rogue can tank and kill multiple people at once. What game is it fair that a rogue can take multiple people. I have seen strong trs hold up to three people on a node against geared and experienced players from other classes. that is why i said. if all rogues switched from their paths to sabs, then the problem with rogues would be even higher.
ya I have never run a perma stun set so idk how to help you with that. If you have tenacity armor you should be able to last long enough to at least get out of stun. I don't run permastun, permastealth, or the exec. bug on my rogue so I can honestly say I've never been able to one-hit anyone from stealth. But as for all of the rogues that do abuse those mechanics, I can't really see how doing so would be any fun. I like somewhat of a challenge in pvp but hey that's just me.
The biggest mistake a lot of people make when fighting rogues is trying to take them on one-on-one in close combat. You will get rekt 9 times outta 10.
If it is a mistake to fight a rouge one on one in close combat as you say, then what advice would you give GF's and GWF's on fighting rogues? Am I supposed to stand back and throw my shield at him from a distance?
Do you really think a TR should be able to stand and go toe to toe with the heavily armored, melee fighters? They can, but do you think that is balance?
Ya rogues do need to be nerfed (and the soulfire/exec bug fixed). I think if they gave us one less roll before our stamina ran out, nerfed the lashing blade from stealth say to like 25-30% severity, and nerfed the dazing time then maybe it would be more balanced.
ya I have never run a perma stun set so idk how to help you with that. If you have tenacity armor you should be able to last long enough to at least get out of stun. I don't run permastun, permastealth, or the exec. bug on my rogue so I can honestly say I've never been able to one-hit anyone from stealth. But as for all of the rogues that do abuse those mechanics, I can't really see how doing so would be any fun. I like somewhat of a challenge in pvp but hey that's just me.
everyone likes a challenge on pvp!. i mean, the tr population is big and they dominate the leaderboards for a reason. it is the strongest class on pvp. By any means I am asking for a 100% balanced game. i actually like diversity and I am cool with a class stronger than others or dominant. But the problem is when the dominance is not for a few inches, but for miles you know what I mean?
the problem is, the leaderboards on, a lot of players refuse to lose to look cool on the first pages. they are stacking comps of at least three rogues, and they are basically unbeatable. this is game breaking. they are afraid to lose so they rather roll only rogues comps, or even two rogues already is a game change against a team that has only one or no rogue to be honest.
the thing is, it may be fun at first to play a broken class (yes, win easier, kill easy, die hard), but on the long run the game gets boring for those running the broken class, and the game gets frustrating for those running the other classes. the result is both quitting or playing less. I am talking this on experience. On PC, MOD 3, GWF was the broken class. The GWFs on PC on mod 3 were almost what the TRs are now. So a lot of the players quit because frustrating running against people running 2 or more gwfs in the same team. A lot people quit their classes and made GWFs to stomp people, but they also got bored of no diversity and easy game, and also quit the game (this is was when I quit on PC). I was a GWF since mod 1, and they made my class boring on mod 3. They eventually nerfed the class in the half of mod 3, but by the time they did it, my entire guild had quit the game already. This is why I think if they haven't nerfed here yet to please the high population of rogues is a really bad move on the long run... I really hope they fix it sooner than the history on PC repeats on xbox one.
No I know it's not balanced that a rogue can take on a gwf and gf so easily one-on-one. Honestly as it stands right now, gf don't stand a chance against me. gwf a little less so since they have unstoppable and stuns but even still I usually own them. I just don't really know what can be done at this current time to help those classes against rogues though
No I know it's not balanced that a rogue can take on a gwf and gf so easily one-on-one. Honestly as it stands right now, gf don't stand a chance against me. gwf a little less so since they have unstoppable and stuns but even still I usually own them. I just don't really know what can be done at this current time to help those classes against rogues though
the thing about gwfs. we don't even have dodges. we rely highly on our naturally high damage resistance, deflection chance, and our unstoppable to give us extra damage resistance. the thing is, the armor piercing feats of trs (shadow opportunity, SoD, shocking execution) all ignores all of those i cited above. even tenacity. so there is nothing much a gwf can do against an averaged geared TR or above. (talking from the perspective of a GWF with almost everything best in slot)
the thing to do is nerf the armor piercing damage feats/powers. They nerfed all those on PC, and the class is still strong (only takes more skills to play). the game is not perfect on pc, but it is far more balanced.
If they do nerf rogues though then they may wanna nerf the clerics slightly too because then they'll be the op class as a result. They are freakish hard to kill.
If they do nerf rogues though then they may wanna nerf the clerics slightly too because then they'll be the op class as a result. They are freakish hard to kill.
thats what i think as well i play a TR, fully profound and i cant kill a good DC,GF or HR with their abilitys to be invincible and trap.
Comments
Hey now... I left your dc' toon alone in our match yesterday. Just bc a person is playing a Tr doesn't mean he's also classless .
< Goon Squad >
No, happened a lot yesterday.
My main used to be a SW which, in PVP, was beyond hopeless. Now I have a TR which I use mostly as my main. But in PvP I have been taken down by CW's, HR's, other TR's, hell I was almost killed by a GWF because he stunned me for ages. I'd say for a GWF, the more stuns you can get, the better.
I use Impossible to catch but not even that saved me from the constant stuns of a GWF.
Please advise what spec will help you while you are perma stunned by TR. Thank you.
Sometimes you have bad luck. I don't waste my time with perma stealth rogues just going around in circles for the entire game while going invisible. But its the paragon Whisperknife what does the stuns.
Getting PvP armor is always a good option to reduce taken damage. Ultimately, I suppose it's down to what character you are and what skills you have at your disposal. AND whether you're built for PvE or PvP.
There's no super-secret, just-got-to-find-it build that will beat a rogue.
I can't believe the developers are this incompetent.
I appreciate what you're saying but some of their attacks ignore all of your gear anyway. It's all rather fruitless. Only defense is more HP.
Here's one last night. Being a Rogue must be hard, since this guy is probably geared better than me (I'm at 14,700 GS, 40,000 HP, 933 Tenacity, 3,300 Defense) yet he feels the need to abuse SoD glitch.
I kept going at this guy trying to take the point back. I don't know if he was AFK or what but we were originally winning until he decided to wake up from his nap and go on a rampage, single handedly winning the game for his team. Must be nice to be TR. As long as you don't have a conscience I guess.
Here I jump off mount and try to sprint to avoid his first hit, but nope. So he takes off a good chunk and I have no sprint left. Then the SoD later procs for 16,000. Lol.
http://xboxclips.com/Skeld1/d1f4a13e-923b-40ad-b7d7-a28767b49970
This one just for laughs because I'm at half health. Need a suicide button so I can just go back to the GY and start over rather than getting one shotted.
http://xboxclips.com/Skeld1/46e27e17-4d67-4a4e-be9f-7e746a81c08e
http://xboxclips.com/Skeld1/e2c50d3d-9a29-4f12-8673-3100e8f4161f
-ASYLUM-
It's not damage per se that bothers me, it is inability to use "skills that I have at my disposal" because of stun lock. I do understand that GWFs can easily do the same to you, but, as far as I remember, they are not invisible. So if you see huge barbarian coming to you with large two-handed sword and do nothing, well, you are asking for trouble. In case of rogues I don't really have any choice: stun lock from invisibility -> respawn point.
It is good you mentioned that. check my topic on feedback forum and check my videos. i am a gwf with above 50k hp, high deflection and dr. the thing about trs is that their skills pierce all of that, so even if you mitigate their base damage you will still die from the piercing damage (piercing damage ignores tenacity pvp resistance, ignores damage resistance, and ignoresdeflection, and ignores also our only class feature Unstoppable extra damage resistance (which is the same thing as stealth for rogues). If you go sentinel super tanky, or as destroyer against a rogue, there is not much difference on your survivavity because of these stuff.
on executioner feats (besides doing insane and stupid damage of lashing blades of 30k (remember always crit and hits 50% harder from stealth), the shadow of demise ignores all your dr/deflection etc.
against a saboteur that has shadow opportunity (piercing damage), you will die the same. Other day in a premade I died against a rogue called blackpaige that is spect into DPS saboteur. he killed me with at wills even with all my hp and deflection. I couldn't make from node 2 to base alive while he was just throwing daggers at me.
the problem is, when you fight a tr with their broken dps like that, it is a problem because their combination of stealth+high deflection chance+high deflection severity+almost four dodges, it is very hard to be able to counter attack a strong tr. they dominate the pvp completely because they kill fast and they are almost untouchable. unless they mess up on their dodges and stealth, it is almost impossible to hit them. and even if you hit, they mitigate 75% of your damage if they deflect something. Also, I think it is good to remember that trs have also a natural CC resistance higher than other classes, so as a GWF you stun a tr, they just pop out of it as nothing happened.
the ones I can fight better are scoundrels because they dont have piercing damage, but they have a long dazing duration that makes any other class unable to play.
just remember that all those features mentioned above were nerfed on PC and rogues are still very powerful. this tells that we need those fixes on xbox also.
whoever agrees with me, and want a more balanced pvp please post on this thread:
http://www.arcgames.com/en/forums#/discussion/562294/pvp-feedback-trickster-rogues-doing-too-much-damage-video-inside/p2
DENIAL
remember the pvp on this game is domination. You can't just back off without giving your enemy points, and the victory. it would make sense in another pvp mode like death match or something, but even so, they would destroy everyone.
also, there are builds that they can maintain "perma stealth". it is not that easy.
DENIAL
one, if they follow ok, but your team will bleed, and on a competitive pvp match every single point on a node counts toward the victory;therefore, it does not work so good.
second, if they have the node, they actually should be fighting off point. so if you try to lure them you will be actually doing what they want and not really helping your team.
Sometimes I play against a team with multiple rogues, all I do is throw my body on the point waiting to die. sacrificing myself...
in case they don't have the node, then it is good to lure, but only a really bad player will actually chase you off node if they don't have the node to be honest.
can't really rely much on backup when a TR can hold at least two players on him nowadays, or when some teams run <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> comps of a minimum of 3 rogues. remember every rogue is a node holder and a killer, in that case all of the other nodes will be having to deal with trs... the game will be even more unbalanced when all trs realize that and start to run only sabs...
DENIAL
The problem is you can't keep the distance if you are stunned or dead
please, don't think I was being a jerk when I replied. I actually appreciate your feedback. What I was trying to say, it may work on some cases. But when you play a lot of premades versus premades, those strategies are a little bit not enough to deal with rogues.
DENIAL
of course. and by doing that you "lose" a player on some other node. But what do you do then when the opponent team is stacking 3 our 4 trs with a DC? you can't bring ten people in a match against them. Also, not sure why in this game a rogue can tank and kill multiple people at once. What game is it fair that a rogue can take multiple people. I have seen strong trs hold up to three people on a node against geared and experienced players from other classes. that is why i said. if all rogues switched from their paths to sabs, then the problem with rogues would be even higher.
DENIAL
If it is a mistake to fight a rouge one on one in close combat as you say, then what advice would you give GF's and GWF's on fighting rogues? Am I supposed to stand back and throw my shield at him from a distance?
Do you really think a TR should be able to stand and go toe to toe with the heavily armored, melee fighters? They can, but do you think that is balance?
ASYLUM
the problem is, the leaderboards on, a lot of players refuse to lose to look cool on the first pages. they are stacking comps of at least three rogues, and they are basically unbeatable. this is game breaking. they are afraid to lose so they rather roll only rogues comps, or even two rogues already is a game change against a team that has only one or no rogue to be honest.
the thing is, it may be fun at first to play a broken class (yes, win easier, kill easy, die hard), but on the long run the game gets boring for those running the broken class, and the game gets frustrating for those running the other classes. the result is both quitting or playing less. I am talking this on experience. On PC, MOD 3, GWF was the broken class. The GWFs on PC on mod 3 were almost what the TRs are now. So a lot of the players quit because frustrating running against people running 2 or more gwfs in the same team. A lot people quit their classes and made GWFs to stomp people, but they also got bored of no diversity and easy game, and also quit the game (this is was when I quit on PC). I was a GWF since mod 1, and they made my class boring on mod 3. They eventually nerfed the class in the half of mod 3, but by the time they did it, my entire guild had quit the game already. This is why I think if they haven't nerfed here yet to please the high population of rogues is a really bad move on the long run... I really hope they fix it sooner than the history on PC repeats on xbox one.
DENIAL
the thing to do is nerf the armor piercing damage feats/powers. They nerfed all those on PC, and the class is still strong (only takes more skills to play). the game is not perfect on pc, but it is far more balanced.
DENIAL
thats what i think as well i play a TR, fully profound and i cant kill a good DC,GF or HR with their abilitys to be invincible and trap.