silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Feeling the pain and wish I could Solo more often
You can solo with any toon, just a matter of different classes or gear level now.
The real question.. is why bother? My old favorite place, now gives worse rewards then ever.. dread ring lairs. All the mini lairs give you "some" enchants and rp.. but its pretty small. Without Hoards to supplement solo farming, there is almost no reason to do any of it, after you get your boons anyways.
My suggestion to most people, join the 3 man DDS on 3-4-5 toons on dd hour, get the key and your daily
6k x 3 toons = 18k a day = 126k a week. Do the IWD zerg or Herald ring and you can earn some more as well.
YA its boring, but frankly its easier then running anything else.. you can also run t1s , once a day per your top 2-3 toons, will give you a chance to maybe get something worth selling. But its pretty RNG based, I know people who have won 3-4 lostmouth belts.. and in my 100 or so elol runs this mod, I HAVENT got one.
So its kinda crappy overall.
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plasticbatMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 12,338Arc User
edited July 2015
I cannot play without Solo'ing - I need it!
I don't know. I was soloing in mod 5 and I am soloing in mod 6. Although I was soloing in mod 5, it does not mean I could do everything without effort. If I stuck, I tried to improve. It might take forever and I just moved along slowly. Mod 6 is the same thing for me. I guess may be I am okay with moving along slowly as what I was doing in mod 5. In a nutshell, it is more or less the same for me.
*** The game can read your mind. If you want it, you won't get it. If you don't expect to get it, you will. ***
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
Low geared players are forced to invest in healing companions now to avoid dying over and over.
Because potions are now completely useless. Instead of buff em to make up for the lack of regen/LS, they nerfed them. Real common sense right there. If new players could rely on a potion to help them in a tight spot there wouldn't so many complaints piling up.
12-15% of your HP every 18 seconds?
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
Feeling the pain and wish I could Solo more often
ITs very important to test and read preview servers.. I learned that awhile ago.. I was lucky enough to have a few healers in place (couple of priestess of sune, a alchemist and a couple of angels) ready to go at the start of the mod for all of my alts.
Of course part of the issue, wasnt just need of healers, it was they effed up stones for a bit, now that they are back , I just use my stones for the most part.
It is nice ot have a pocket healer though.. to avoid using pot chaining, in areas you might need it.
I think I bought 2 priestess at one point for less then 200k total. Not a bad deal at the time.
Frankly any game that might require you to use health potions from stores.. bleh.. Im not playing that. Never!
for ppl who couldnt read this topic ill give a recap - "blah blah blah doom, blah blah blah gloom"
game is much better than in mod 4 and 5, didnt play 3, a bunch of crybabies complaining on forum doesnt show majority, my guild is quite casual(though most ppl play since start) we are having great time, and im the only one on forums, so sto pthis "majority" bs. if you cant do mod6 content then either you are new to online gaming or online gaming isnt for you
put the game we all invested in and loved playing back to the way it was.
you mean back when a potato could run dungeons with ease and a good player could solo some of the hardest dungeons @ 13k gs, when there was absolutely nothing worth doing except of lagfest dragon hes, or some sorry excuse of a raid every hour for 20 min? no thank you,
<Moderator Note: Removed ethnic comment. Do leave such real-world ethnic or race comments/jokes off the forums. ~Zeb>
I pretty much only play solo. I am limited in my time to play so teaming up is not really an option for me most of the time. Being able to solo most of the content was a big selling point for me (Literally, I am several hundred dollars into this game.). When Mod 6 came along it changed everything. My main is an HR and I had to respec, regear, and change my style and strategy. I finally got up to where I could make it through some of the level 70 content. I still had to pop a few potions and use a few injury kits, but I could make it through if I planed it right. THEN, they did that update that reduced monster damage inflicted, but gave them longer life. Now I can't get through level 70 content at all. I can't kill those Dragon Fang things before they power up ROFL stomp me. So, unless they make some adjustments where level 70 content can be soloed by classes other than tanks, I am pretty much out. I will be in game now and then just to see whats going on, but my main game will be changing to something else. I doubt I will be spending any more money on NW also. Too bad, I really enjoyed the game, but obviously they are taking the game into a different direction than I am going.
I dare call BS on that statement, even though I understand your reasoning. But it's flawed just the same.
The devs forced their own hand by allowing the power creep, the existence of too high level enchantments and too many artifacts to continue for 4.5 mods instead of keeping player's power in check with the published content, despite the thousands of warnings about it that got removed from the old forums. Had they but listened, this rework wouldn't have been needed, or at least it didn't need to be so severe and a gradual increase in difficulty over several mods would have been sufficient to keep things challenging for everyone. But when you use BiS stats that most people don't have as a reason to justify this rework.. well.. you get what we have now.
You can't blame the player for using what they are given. You can however punish them by making everything but the artifacts and enchants that caused so many complaints, utterly worthless to the point they can't even use it to level with in a single rework. I trust I do not have to provide any evidence of that.
I'll go even further. I am 99% sure that we'll have another one of these cute little "reworks" within a year, 2 tops provided the game still lives by then, judging by the even further increase in power and importance of everything that caused the original power creep in the first place. Why plan for the future if you can take everything away from your players when things are not to your liking? People only nag for a month or 2 before returning to being the good little customers they were before.
This is NOT about the overall state of the game. This is about the state of SOLO.
And seriously, that LS comment up there just oozes ignorance. Stacking LS is easier than you think with starter gear, the problem is pulling it off with T1s/T2s.
Anyway, the fact is that EVEN IF the game suddenly didn't decide to cough up monsters that could kill you in 2 hits, once players started pushing (VERY AGGRESSIVELY, I might add - you obviously weren't there if you don't remember) that they wanted their DCs to be "true" healers, their GWFs to be "true" DPSers, the GFs to be "true" tanks, etc. the old state of solo play was doomed.
It's remarkable how many of you people are suddenly here now given how just few us were here to defend the old meta, at the time. I suspect the obviously bad "advice" the got from that incident is one of the main reasons they're keeping Stronghold testing to a few select players.
Even if people here were NOT complaining about being killed in a few hits then they WOULD STILL be complaining that their healer DC/archer/GF/etc. only had the 1/10th the solo efficiency of other classes. Even if IWD/WoD/Shara/DR were kept at old level 60 difficulty, what happens when a level 70 "new" version of these areas (with significantly higher difficulty) is added into the game?
I sincerely doubt the complaining would stop.
And the other comment saying how only DCs/GFs/pally's/too squishy glass cannons/classes lacking control should group. Are you nuts? What gives you the right decide which class types should struggle and which shouldn't? Especially considering how much effort tanks/healers have to put into completing dungeons. This isn't WoW, this is not a tab-targetting game. It's highly likely good tanks/healers put even more effort into completing dungeons than your average DPSer.
Once the game became (more and more) balanced around specialized roles - roles that are meant to be part of a whole, the effect on solo was inevitable. And it didn't exactly happen overnight, but the problem was that players (very vocally) claimed that they WANTED this. And don't you dare blame the power creep, given how people STILL wanted their DCs to be "real" healers despite how powerful we were at the time.
I mean seriously, people DEMANDED to top the healing done leaderboards even though DC healing was all but a "side effect" back in mods 4-5. DCs were a jack-of-trades class but were masters at buffing/debuffing - even Kaelac wrote a very comprehensive guide detailing this - but that wasn't enough. Every day there were whining/complaining/I hate this game/I'm quitting/I'm doing less healing than lifesteal (the stupidest argument of all) threads in the forums (as I'm sure some posters here in this very thread might remember).
And so (apparently) the devs listened.
Like I said, at this point I honestly don't see how solo play could be "improved" so that it was the same as the old solo we had (at least without sccrewing over several classes/playstyles in the process). The best that can be done is a system that makes grouping in "solo" areas hassle-free/instant/non-intrusive. Open window, get in, kill mobs, get out, continue soloing the stuff that doesn't give you trouble.
Post edited by tyrtallow on
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
I hate working in a party. PUGs are the worst; there is almost always some kind of problem. Inexperience, frequent afks, communication barriers, and the time wasted trying to get the party collected so you can start at all. I will not use a group for anything unless I am unable to access it solo. So only dungeons, skirmishes, and PVP. Things you should need a group for.
And yes, I know you can team with friends and not PUGs. But some people do work or live in timezones other then my own. Maximizing what can be done in the allotted time means a lot of soloing. And that is a feature I prioritize in all the MMOs I play. The option to solo progression content.
It just occurred to me as I was reviewing the posts, that some of the confusion/issues about solo'ing also relates to classes and their relative ability to solo from each other - as I have stated before, some of mine can, others cannot. Should it be that ALL class types (DC, OP, GWF, GF, etc) and their respective feat trees are able to solo, or should it be accepted that if we want to have true class specialization, that we must accept that some of those classes will never have solo (unless very specifically geared and specced!) ease?
I see that Solo play is very important to the majority, but can we live with knowing that if that is what we want, we will be limited to select classes/builds? The other part of the problem is PVP - if you have an uber PVE class (that could solo easily), that tends to overdominate in PVP.
The only other way would be to use the class Feat Trees to designate one tree as the Solo/PVP build, while the others are the group builds, and make it obvious that is the choice. I know that my selection of the class feat tree in the past has been trying to balance both solo and group dynamics, but maybe (the Dev's willing), it should be made a clear choice of one or the other, but you cannot have both in the same character...
Might is not always right - the powerful sometimes forget that.
Poll is fixed so that there is no option for
a.) people who still find it easy,
b.) people enjoying the new difficulty,
c.) people who are indifferent.
Personally i'm in <people enjoying the new difficulty> i can solo all content that needs to be soloed.
I'm not even BiS for those of you who would say i'm a " P2W BiS Wallet Warrior", i'm completely F2P, i dont have a leadership farm, and i only started playing again this January. I only have rank 7 enchants which are cheap af from the NCL chests, t1/t1.5 gear for PvE, lesser soulforged, normal vorpal, 3 (free) sigils and 1 (free) lantern. which i upgraded from those 10k r5/2.5k r4 enchant stacks (that's like 10 RP/AD or 2x on events).
I honestly believe you guys are exaggerating thing by a whole lot. BTW,
Your so called "wallet warriors" are the ones keeping the game alive, you can outplay and beat them easily except if they're more/equally skilled or less skilled than you (but that's because they PAID, it would suck for you too if $1000 wouldn't make you atleast a bit better than someone who went F2P).
tl;dr:
you need to up your game, unless you're new to the game, you dont have a reason to scream nerf on the forums.
(The 60-70 lvling really needs one so new (non-OP) players can go through them though)
In response to HE's not being soloable anymore, it's because it really shouldn't be. It even says "Recommended for 3-5/10+/15+ players" if you can read what's being written as you enter their areas.
Here are my constructive notes on content difficulty:
The question is: "what should and what should not be soloed?"
1) Considering the new content, IMO most quests should be - for a regular 2k ilvl player. Perhaps quests like Vault of Nine, and very few other that unlock BIS rewards should need a group to be done. Daily quests in dwarven valley, for exemple, today, are even doable solo in low gear but they are undoubtedly a pain - take for exemple the amount of damage those ranged trolls do. Thats a turn off for sure, even to a hardcore player. And don't start with the "stack radiant enchantments in def slot", because that should never be a solution to this issue. More HP should be something that tanking classes would add to the base defensive stats every other class have in its own way (slower physical dmg go for defense; faster or more agile go for deflection; and I would add that magic-based should have some sort of magical resillience to improve arcane/elemental shields holy/unholy auras or whatever. Each one with pros and cons). Thats a consistent idea if you stop to think about it.
2) Epic dungeons, on the other hand, should never be possible to solo. Due to their very concept. They are meant to be fairly doable with a regular 2k item level+ group, while regular Dungeons should be by a recent-70s undergeared group. To achieve that goal, boss encounters should have mechanics that simply allow groups to overcome the challenge once everyone does his/her role. Not every hostile ability must have a hit-kill outcome, but only those clearly avoidable mechanics. The best challenge is an encounter with harder-to-master mechanics. And this is completely different than one crowded with mobs that 1 shot you on sight*. Item drops in these epic dungeons should reward tokens that allow players to do the very endgame content. Close to what we have nowadays, but, with a little bit easier boss encounters in those epic dungeons.
3) Last but not least, totally agree with a hard as hell endgame content (after gearing up in epic dungeons either with random groups or guildmates). In encounters such as Tiamat and final content <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> bosses, gear (top ilvl) should not be the only thing that takes to overcome the challenge. A solid strategy, followed in synergy by a well organized group (in voice chat) and right calls of a leader due to on-demand RNG should be enough. And this is far different than ZERG, if you know what I mean. I think last instances like Temple of Tiamat should have more bosses, demanding that item level achieved by doing epic dungeons. And these bosses should drop items that would make the very last boss a little bit easier. Thats the idea I consider the main secret of some enduring & successful mmos' pve.
* ps.: for epic dungeons, the dps-check should not be enough dps to kill a pack of mobs in the duration of an astral shield, for ex - IMO. Of course I'm pro-crowd control + tatics Vs. nobrainer mitigation + tank & spank.
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silvergryphMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
I cannot play without Solo'ing - I need it!
I voted that I cannot play without solo. But, I would like to add that I have no problem soloing right now and that, overall, I like the addition of some difficulty. I have characters that made it to 70 without ever dying. They've experienced death now...
Comments
The real question.. is why bother? My old favorite place, now gives worse rewards then ever.. dread ring lairs. All the mini lairs give you "some" enchants and rp.. but its pretty small. Without Hoards to supplement solo farming, there is almost no reason to do any of it, after you get your boons anyways.
My suggestion to most people, join the 3 man DDS on 3-4-5 toons on dd hour, get the key and your daily
6k x 3 toons = 18k a day = 126k a week. Do the IWD zerg or Herald ring and you can earn some more as well.
YA its boring, but frankly its easier then running anything else.. you can also run t1s , once a day per your top 2-3 toons, will give you a chance to maybe get something worth selling. But its pretty RNG based, I know people who have won 3-4 lostmouth belts.. and in my 100 or so elol runs this mod, I HAVENT got one.
So its kinda crappy overall.
Because potions are now completely useless. Instead of buff em to make up for the lack of regen/LS, they nerfed them. Real common sense right there. If new players could rely on a potion to help them in a tight spot there wouldn't so many complaints piling up.
12-15% of your HP every 18 seconds?
Of course part of the issue, wasnt just need of healers, it was they effed up stones for a bit, now that they are back , I just use my stones for the most part.
It is nice ot have a pocket healer though.. to avoid using pot chaining, in areas you might need it.
I think I bought 2 priestess at one point for less then 200k total. Not a bad deal at the time.
Frankly any game that might require you to use health potions from stores.. bleh.. Im not playing that. Never!
Thats pure <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
game is much better than in mod 4 and 5, didnt play 3, a bunch of crybabies complaining on forum doesnt show majority, my guild is quite casual(though most ppl play since start) we are having great time, and im the only one on forums, so sto pthis "majority" bs. if you cant do mod6 content then either you are new to online gaming or online gaming isnt for you
you mean back when a potato could run dungeons with ease and a good player could solo some of the hardest dungeons @ 13k gs, when there was absolutely nothing worth doing except of lagfest dragon hes, or some sorry excuse of a raid every hour for 20 min? no thank you,
<Moderator Note: Removed ethnic comment. Do leave such real-world ethnic or race comments/jokes off the forums. ~Zeb>
I've been playing MMO's since the mid-90's and I've never played a game where the "solo" content is so difficult and unforgiving.
What game do you want to compare it to?
Ultima Online, Lord of the Rings Online, Rift, Age of Conan, Tera, World of Warcraft, Runescape, Guild Wars?
And seriously, that LS comment up there just oozes ignorance. Stacking LS is easier than you think with starter gear, the problem is pulling it off with T1s/T2s.
Anyway, the fact is that EVEN IF the game suddenly didn't decide to cough up monsters that could kill you in 2 hits, once players started pushing (VERY AGGRESSIVELY, I might add - you obviously weren't there if you don't remember) that they wanted their DCs to be "true" healers, their GWFs to be "true" DPSers, the GFs to be "true" tanks, etc. the old state of solo play was doomed.
It's remarkable how many of you people are suddenly here now given how just few us were here to defend the old meta, at the time. I suspect the obviously bad "advice" the got from that incident is one of the main reasons they're keeping Stronghold testing to a few select players.
Even if people here were NOT complaining about being killed in a few hits then they WOULD STILL be complaining that their healer DC/archer/GF/etc. only had the 1/10th the solo efficiency of other classes. Even if IWD/WoD/Shara/DR were kept at old level 60 difficulty, what happens when a level 70 "new" version of these areas (with significantly higher difficulty) is added into the game?
I sincerely doubt the complaining would stop.
And the other comment saying how only DCs/GFs/pally's/too squishy glass cannons/classes lacking control should group. Are you nuts? What gives you the right decide which class types should struggle and which shouldn't? Especially considering how much effort tanks/healers have to put into completing dungeons. This isn't WoW, this is not a tab-targetting game. It's highly likely good tanks/healers put even more effort into completing dungeons than your average DPSer.
Once the game became (more and more) balanced around specialized roles - roles that are meant to be part of a whole, the effect on solo was inevitable. And it didn't exactly happen overnight, but the problem was that players (very vocally) claimed that they WANTED this. And don't you dare blame the power creep, given how people STILL wanted their DCs to be "real" healers despite how powerful we were at the time.
I mean seriously, people DEMANDED to top the healing done leaderboards even though DC healing was all but a "side effect" back in mods 4-5. DCs were a jack-of-trades class but were masters at buffing/debuffing - even Kaelac wrote a very comprehensive guide detailing this - but that wasn't enough. Every day there were whining/complaining/I hate this game/I'm quitting/I'm doing less healing than lifesteal (the stupidest argument of all) threads in the forums (as I'm sure some posters here in this very thread might remember).
And so (apparently) the devs listened.
Like I said, at this point I honestly don't see how solo play could be "improved" so that it was the same as the old solo we had (at least without sccrewing over several classes/playstyles in the process). The best that can be done is a system that makes grouping in "solo" areas hassle-free/instant/non-intrusive. Open window, get in, kill mobs, get out, continue soloing the stuff that doesn't give you trouble.
And yes, I know you can team with friends and not PUGs. But some people do work or live in timezones other then my own. Maximizing what can be done in the allotted time means a lot of soloing. And that is a feature I prioritize in all the MMOs I play. The option to solo progression content.
I see that Solo play is very important to the majority, but can we live with knowing that if that is what we want, we will be limited to select classes/builds? The other part of the problem is PVP - if you have an uber PVE class (that could solo easily), that tends to overdominate in PVP.
The only other way would be to use the class Feat Trees to designate one tree as the Solo/PVP build, while the others are the group builds, and make it obvious that is the choice. I know that my selection of the class feat tree in the past has been trying to balance both solo and group dynamics, but maybe (the Dev's willing), it should be made a clear choice of one or the other, but you cannot have both in the same character...
Might is not always right - the powerful sometimes forget that.
The Small Banda.) people who still find it easy,
b.) people enjoying the new difficulty,
c.) people who are indifferent.
Personally i'm in <people enjoying the new difficulty> i can solo all content that needs to be soloed.
I'm not even BiS for those of you who would say i'm a " P2W BiS Wallet Warrior", i'm completely F2P, i dont have a leadership farm, and i only started playing again this January. I only have rank 7 enchants which are cheap af from the NCL chests, t1/t1.5 gear for PvE, lesser soulforged, normal vorpal, 3 (free) sigils and 1 (free) lantern. which i upgraded from those 10k r5/2.5k r4 enchant stacks (that's like 10 RP/AD or 2x on events).
I honestly believe you guys are exaggerating thing by a whole lot. BTW,
Your so called "wallet warriors" are the ones keeping the game alive, you can outplay and beat them easily except if they're more/equally skilled or less skilled than you (but that's because they PAID, it would suck for you too if $1000 wouldn't make you atleast a bit better than someone who went F2P).
tl;dr:
you need to up your game, unless you're new to the game, you dont have a reason to scream nerf on the forums.
(The 60-70 lvling really needs one so new (non-OP) players can go through them though)
In response to HE's not being soloable anymore, it's because it really shouldn't be. It even says "Recommended for 3-5/10+/15+ players" if you can read what's being written as you enter their areas.
The question is: "what should and what should not be soloed?"
1) Considering the new content, IMO most quests should be - for a regular 2k ilvl player. Perhaps quests like Vault of Nine, and very few other that unlock BIS rewards should need a group to be done. Daily quests in dwarven valley, for exemple, today, are even doable solo in low gear but they are undoubtedly a pain - take for exemple the amount of damage those ranged trolls do. Thats a turn off for sure, even to a hardcore player. And don't start with the "stack radiant enchantments in def slot", because that should never be a solution to this issue. More HP should be something that tanking classes would add to the base defensive stats every other class have in its own way (slower physical dmg go for defense; faster or more agile go for deflection; and I would add that magic-based should have some sort of magical resillience to improve arcane/elemental shields holy/unholy auras or whatever. Each one with pros and cons). Thats a consistent idea if you stop to think about it.
2) Epic dungeons, on the other hand, should never be possible to solo. Due to their very concept. They are meant to be fairly doable with a regular 2k item level+ group, while regular Dungeons should be by a recent-70s undergeared group. To achieve that goal, boss encounters should have mechanics that simply allow groups to overcome the challenge once everyone does his/her role. Not every hostile ability must have a hit-kill outcome, but only those clearly avoidable mechanics. The best challenge is an encounter with harder-to-master mechanics. And this is completely different than one crowded with mobs that 1 shot you on sight*. Item drops in these epic dungeons should reward tokens that allow players to do the very endgame content. Close to what we have nowadays, but, with a little bit easier boss encounters in those epic dungeons.
3) Last but not least, totally agree with a hard as hell endgame content (after gearing up in epic dungeons either with random groups or guildmates). In encounters such as Tiamat and final content <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> bosses, gear (top ilvl) should not be the only thing that takes to overcome the challenge. A solid strategy, followed in synergy by a well organized group (in voice chat) and right calls of a leader due to on-demand RNG should be enough. And this is far different than ZERG, if you know what I mean.
* ps.: for epic dungeons, the dps-check should not be enough dps to kill a pack of mobs in the duration of an astral shield, for ex - IMO. Of course I'm pro-crowd control + tatics Vs. nobrainer mitigation + tank & spank.
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