Personally, as a SW being constantly killed cloaked TRs; I wouldn't say they were overpowered but very, very, VERY annoying to kill.
I've only started playing PVP as I wanted to get my T2 gear for PVE first then start branching to PVP; and the main issue I see is the matchmaking....
The matchmaking is appalling, especially when you can have 1 team with 3 TRs where on mine we have 1.... Then, the next issue; the matchmaking is throwing PVE geared players into high PVP geared players. How can people get PVP gear is they have NO glory for gear.
This is what makes people squishy to the TRs.... As said previous, as TRs have these abilities; they can generate glory much faster thus making it EVEN harder to go against them.
TRs aren't invincible.... I know as many have fallen to my Harrowstorm/Killing Flame/Dreadtheft combo; it's the high deflection change they naturally have that makes 'em the ballache I have with em
TR arent that bad anymore for me. Its when a cw goes through an entire rotation while im rooted and dazed by hr while im dazed and stabbed by tr all at the same time that burns me
control wizards are much worse lol u can freeze w/e u want around u and no other class stands a fighting chance back just wait til u see every single player make cw's that's what happened to pc pc pvp is dead because its all control wizards
honly only way to fix pvp is to remove dodgeing/stuns from abilities then it be fair damage could still be balanced by the ten u can get from armor but that's it.
honly only way to fix pvp is to remove dodgeing/stuns from abilities then it be fair damage could still be balanced by the ten u can get from armor but that's it.
Dodging maybe, but stuns?!? No! We all have CC resist in PVP. If you are having issues with CC effects, improve your gear
I have a 19k gear score control wizrads ignore ur restistance even if u have legendary x3 token of moment it doesn't matter+ max pvp gear control wizard stun=overpowered im a pc player ive played that game 2 years no matter what u use stuns from cw will go through it
Dodging maybe, but stuns?!? No! We all have CC resist in PVP. If you are having issues with CC effects, improve your gear
good luck with the dazed of Trs.
I think the fix for trs is probably easy. I noticed they have way too many skills that ignore dr... as a gwf, my only defense is my gear(which is less defensive than a GF) and unstoppable that gives me dr, but against trs it is useless because of all their armor piercing skills. If they would take that away, keep even the damage of the skill, but remove the armor piercing feature it would fix a lot of the problems I think
From an ahem, pro TR rogue lol 17k gs with perfect vorpal My first forum post, Rogues are not OP!! To the guy who started this who didnt even know what tenacity was, wow. To the guy who says it's too hard to get PVP gear, play more! To all complainers, it's an MMO RPG, it's not supposed to be easy or quick to get the best gear I mean the games only been out a few months!! I play PVE and PVP but because as a TR you invariably get kicked first in PVE and I found it hard to get games I decided to concentrate on PVP, so I have geared and specced myself to be as powerful as I can be in PVP, did any of you ever think that people may be doing this? PVP is another aspect of the game that requires a different approach, setup and gear! I am not a perma stealth rogue I do not abuse shadow of demise and I do not use plaguefire! How did I get my vorpal? I played the game! Yes I was lucky enough to complete campaign early so I could make money from dragon gems when they were worth something and I have 6 professions to 20 so I can make some money selling things. This enables me to tweak as much as poss so I'm ridiculously powerful in PVP where I regularly get 25plus kills with no deaths, but it wasn't always like this I had to work at it! Too many people come on forums or even heard online complaining and moaning because it's too hard or whatever character is OP but the reality is, hunters, clerics and control wizards are all Extremely powerful in PVP if set up correctly, hell wizards don't even have to be set up for PVP to be great in it! I know this cos I've played the game to death with many other friends playing other classes etc. I can still struggle against some players now in PVP not just rogues but all other classes it's all about how you've set your class up, if you think you can have your same PVE setup in PVP and do well then think again, and if you think anyone can rule as a rogue then think again, I worked bloody hard to get my char set up the way it is so does that make me OP? Of course not it just means I'm putting time and effort into the game to get better! Here's a hint, before you complain, think!!! Is this guy setup totally for PVP? And are you? If not, you'll lose! It's not supposed to be a pick up and do well games it's a long term RPG with some many mechanics and technical things going on it's really an idea to find out what it's all about before you come on a forum and complain when you haven't got a clue what you're talking about, I mean come on no idea what tenacity is? Yes you are a nub! Spend more time researching your char and how it works against others before complaining, console gamers want everything instantly and that's why you need to remember it's not that sort of game! So yes the big statement is, learn how to play your char in PVP and you'll do better. Hell I stand toe to toe with Many class's without using stealth to prove my point of just how badly geared and set up some of these players are, last point, if you go into PVP during PVP hour with no PVP gear or potions then you're wasting yours and your teams time. Lost count of how many people I've had on my team who just give up and then I see they have no PVP gear on, how can you ever expect to win if you don't get any? Especially during PVP hour when we're on trying to get more glory, don't need any more myself now as I have everything available to buy in the trade of blades but the point still stands. PVP is not PVE and should be treated as a different game almost so think about that before you complain cos you guys just look stupid, and will continue to die.
you said it all dan3820! There are so many people that dont know how to play MMO RPG'S. They just dont understand it takes TIME to gear up/learn ur class! ive got a 60 TR fully profound finally and it wasnt easy cause like you said other people are fully PVP geared and know how to play their classes as well!
cheers Rambo, remembered one more point, it takes ages to earn glory?? Do you really think I got to where I am now without losing lots and lots and lots and lots of games?! Gettin 100 glory or in some cases none!!! And that's from silken who knows how to play!! That's the way it goes it's the same for rogues going on and having a terrible team, I didn't complain I took it and kept going cos it's an RPG and takes time to build up! Yes I'll agree that the matchmaking isn't quite right but that's a lot to do with players as well as the game, I'd love to see PVP where you have a low tenacity side of it, in other words I'd love to see beginners PVP where you can go on with low gear score and an expert PVP where you have to have a certain amount of gear to get in, just because you can't play PVP and just want to earn enough glory to get your artifact to put into a power artifact doesn't mean I should carry you through the game cos I want to Play properly! So frustrating to be on a team with 13k plus geared players but with no PVP gear. No excuse for getting to that level and not having any!
12,000 GS. Granted, I'm still building up my gear. 1 Profound, 5 Grim. This game is f'n terrible at times guys. And most of it centers around trying to fight invisible men who dodge or deflect everything.
12,000 GS. Granted, I'm still building up my gear. 1 Profound, 5 Grim. This game is f'n terrible at times guys. And most of it centers around trying to fight invisible men who dodge or deflect everything.
except against the scoundrels, there is not much a GWF can do against executioners and saboteurs because of their piercing damage ignoring our dr, unstoppable, tenacity, and deflect. We have to accept it.
Before mod 6, they nerfed SoD by 50% and removed the plaguefire glitch, and also nerfed the daze duration by 50%.
So we will probably have these changes as soon as they bring the rise of tiamat patch. However, we will have the saboteurs destroying us with their shadow opportunity piercing damage. Sadly, shadow opportunity is only nerfed recently on mod 6, so we can't expect anytime soon. Piercing damage was the worst thing they ever made. Specially when this ignores everything a class have, specially a class that relies on defense, hp, and deflect to survive.
Ah, another cool thing for us is that ItC won't give any more CC immunity on mod 6. So our only useful CC (FS) Won't be negated by trs anymore.
I can see they are moving the game toward a more balanced aspect, but I guess it will take a long time before it hits on xbox. At least in rise of tiamat we should have less SoD damage and no glitch, which is something already.
I feel GWFs do balanced against every other class though.
12,000 GS. Granted, I'm still building up my gear. 1 Profound, 5 Grim. This game is f'n terrible at times guys. And most of it centers around trying to fight invisible men who dodge or deflect everything.
except against the scoundrels, there is not much a GWF can do against executioners and saboteurs because of their piercing damage ignoring our dr, unstoppable, tenacity, and deflect. We have to accept it.
Before mod 6, they nerfed SoD by 50% and removed the plaguefire glitch, and also nerfed the daze duration by 50%.
So we will probably have these changes as soon as they bring the rise of tiamat patch. However, we will have the saboteurs destroying us with their shadow opportunity piercing damage. Sadly, shadow opportunity is only nerfed recently on mod 6, so we can't expect anytime soon. Piercing damage was the worst thing they ever made. Specially when this ignores everything a class have, specially a class that relies on defense, hp, and deflect to survive.
Ah, another cool thing for us is that ItC won't give any more CC immunity on mod 6. So our only useful CC (FS) Won't be negated by trs anymore.
I can see they are moving the game toward a more balanced aspect, but I guess it will take a long time before it hits on xbox. At least in rise of tiamat we should have less SoD damage and no glitch, which is something already.
I feel GWFs do balanced against every other class though.
I was looking at the PC leaderboard for the Combat League. Seems like a lot of TR's.
12,000 GS. Granted, I'm still building up my gear. 1 Profound, 5 Grim. This game is f'n terrible at times guys. And most of it centers around trying to fight invisible men who dodge or deflect everything.
except against the scoundrels, there is not much a GWF can do against executioners and saboteurs because of their piercing damage ignoring our dr, unstoppable, tenacity, and deflect. We have to accept it.
Before mod 6, they nerfed SoD by 50% and removed the plaguefire glitch, and also nerfed the daze duration by 50%.
So we will probably have these changes as soon as they bring the rise of tiamat patch. However, we will have the saboteurs destroying us with their shadow opportunity piercing damage. Sadly, shadow opportunity is only nerfed recently on mod 6, so we can't expect anytime soon. Piercing damage was the worst thing they ever made. Specially when this ignores everything a class have, specially a class that relies on defense, hp, and deflect to survive.
Ah, another cool thing for us is that ItC won't give any more CC immunity on mod 6. So our only useful CC (FS) Won't be negated by trs anymore.
I can see they are moving the game toward a more balanced aspect, but I guess it will take a long time before it hits on xbox. At least in rise of tiamat we should have less SoD damage and no glitch, which is something already.
I feel GWFs do balanced against every other class though.
I was looking at the PC leaderboard for the Combat League. Seems like a lot of TR's.
the shadow opportunity change is something recent. But I still think even nerfed, these stuffs are stupid. It is stupid they give a class bonus damage that bypass DR/DEFLECTION/UNSTOPPABLE, and even tenacity. Not to forget they have 100% critic chance under stealth. That means that they have the advantage of only stack power on their builds or recovery for faster cooldowns without losing DPS.
it is unbalanced specially against fighters that do not have dodges and relies on high dr/deflection etc.
not to forget, the new good enchantment is negation, and again, trs hit people as if they were mobs because of that as well.
the piercing damage is the worst thing they ever made. Doesn't make sense to me they remove the prones from GWF and give trs piercing damage, but well...
I keep posting this stuff just so the absurdity is well known.
i dont understand how they could give a class stuff such as armor piercing (something that ignores DR, TENACITY unstoppable, deflect) after they removed the GWFs CC, nerfed the damage of FS. makes no sense.
because of piercing damage and 100% critical chance under stealth. trs can stack power/silvery without worry about armor pen and critical. The dev that had the idea of make those TRs feats really made a mistake. It is not like TRs were underpowered before. TRs WERE always fighting for the top of pvp chain. Makes no sense they got that stupid "buff"
Right so TR's are the easiest class in the game to get good with thats for sure but at end game PvP they are really hard to run/gear to avoid getting smashed by other perma stun/stealth rogues, HR's or CW's.
They are the ultimate glass cannons but they are limited to medium or close range and without a CC break are usually dead moments after leaving stealth.
Also its rare for any type of rogue other than a perma stun to be able to kill a cleric.
Personally I run a perma stealth rogue with full profound, perfect vorpal and over a 17k GS and as much as I can lock down a point I have to be very careful with attacking controllers and if my stealth gets broken by an AoE or lucky hit in usually screwed.
If your not running a CW, HR or TR then thats your choice but every piece of info that was out before the game (for PC) said those classes were strongest in Mod 5. If you ignored that its fine but you were warned. In future mods, 6 for example that changes and GWF's become OP.
Finally if your new to PvP then you'll see more rogues then any other class and even the bad rogues can hit hard if your not geared right but tbh a HR or CW could just as easily teach you that lesson.
EDIT: Also note if your a DPS spec and not using a lantern to deal with difficult rogues then your always gunna have issues.
EDIT: Vengeance Pursuit and Deft Strike allow rogues to teleport to their targets. The first teleports in front while the other teleports behind. If you stand still still your asking for trouble but tbh I know of no point in either map that isnt accessible from atleast 2 routes. If you think your "safe" on a pillar then your not as you've just made yourself a priority.
If your not running a CW, HR or TR then thats your choice but every piece of info that was out before the game (for PC) said those classes were strongest in Mod 5. If you ignored that its fine but you were warned. In future mods, 6 for example that changes and GWF's become OP.
Btw we tend to win 80% of our games and can carry a team, plus usually over 10 games we'll always be vying for 1st and 2nd on the game scoreboard. I also tend to get 150+ kills in 10 games and only 5 deaths (usually less) while my friends stun build will get 350+ kills but 40 deaths over 10 games. Both are effective but stun is for blitzing, breaking groups and killing enemies who've become seperated while perma stealth can sit on the enemies "home" point all game even if he's there with their whole team, keep things contested and picking up kills on any class that isnt a good healer cleric, CC HR or Stun Rogue - not that they can hurt me either mind xD
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Ah yes, we should probably remove those other classes then. We don't want to upset our rogue overlords.
Right so TR's are the easiest class in the game to get good with thats for sure but at end game PvP they are really hard to run/gear to avoid getting smashed by other perma stun/stealth rogues, HR's or CW's.
They are the ultimate glass cannons but they are limited to medium or close range and without a CC break are usually dead moments after leaving stealth.
Also its rare for any type of rogue other than a perma stun to be able to kill a cleric.
Personally I run a perma stealth rogue with full profound, perfect vorpal and over a 17k GS and as much as I can lock down a point I have to be very careful with attacking controllers and if my stealth gets broken by an AoE or lucky hit in usually screwed.
If your not running a CW, HR or TR then thats your choice but every piece of info that was out before the game (for PC) said those classes were strongest in Mod 5. If you ignored that its fine but you were warned. In future mods, 6 for example that changes and GWF's become OP.
Finally if your new to PvP then you'll see more rogues then any other class and even the bad rogues can hit hard if your not geared right but tbh a HR or CW could just as easily teach you that lesson.
EDIT: Also note if your a DPS spec and not using a lantern to deal with difficult rogues then your always gunna have issues.
EDIT: Vengeance Pursuit and Deft Strike allow rogues to teleport to their targets. The first teleports in front while the other teleports behind. If you stand still still your asking for trouble but tbh I know of no point in either map that isnt accessible from atleast 2 routes. If you think your "safe" on a pillar then your not as you've just made yourself a priority.
GWF OP on mod 6? where have you heard this non sense. go to the forum and you will see how people complain of them being underperforming on mod 6 as well. They removed our roar root, our prones from takedown and frontline surge, they reduced the damage of frontline surged, and nerfed the DR bonus from destroyer and instigator.
On mod 6, armor piercing was nerfed, but it still exists. You think it is fair a class has features that bypass all dr/deflection/and even tenacity?
GWF is very gear dependent, and on high end pvp scenarion (im talking about competitive pvp, guild vs guild, premades, it underperforms a lot. and tr is still the op class as far as it goes on mod 6).
I made a thread with some of the comments from PC players about GWF and they still complaining about armor piercing and that gwf underperforms on PVP due trs existance.
GWF has only two viable cc encounters. One is a 0.2 seconds stun that has to be very close to hit and very easy to dodge due long animation(takedown). second is 17second cooldown, poor damage, and easy to dodge, longer stun duration, but still crappy against trs since they just need to time their ItC.
nope, it is not good at all.
all that added is too heavy considering GWFs are a class that do not have dodges; therefore, have to rely on sprint and defense stats more. soon, the "don't be standing" still do not really apply to GWFs/GFs.
Yes, the other classes can fight TRs better, but thanks to their already low DR (so the armor piercing feats do not factor that much in), and because they have dodges and more CC (HRs, and CWs). But a good TR is still better than any other of these classes, and cannot be countered by any of them unless there are at least 2 players for one tr.
In what world are rogues supposed to tank and hold a point better than tanky classes, need at least 2 strong players?
The point is. TRs never struggled as a class to be fighting over the top on pvp. ever since the game was released, TRs were ALWAYS viable on PvP, and always performed good. What is the point of buffing more a class that already does great and give them feats that bypass all defenses or daze them for ages that they cannot dodge or use any encounter?
if you think trs are not overpowered, then you are really afraid of something be fixed. Just look at trs population.
If you solo q for pvp, you will almost always be in a team with 2 trs fighting another team with 2 trs. And a lot of premades run with 3 or even 4 trs. this alone shows the trend.
I keep posting this stuff just so the absurdity is well known.
i dont understand how they could give a class stuff such as armor piercing (something that ignores DR, TENACITY unstoppable, deflect) after they removed the GWFs CC, nerfed the damage of FS. makes no sense.
because of piercing damage and 100% critical chance under stealth. trs can stack power/silvery without worry about armor pen and critical. The dev that had the idea of make those TRs feats really made a mistake. It is not like TRs were underpowered before. TRs WERE always fighting for the top of pvp chain. Makes no sense they got that stupid "buff"
The second part of SoD also seems to ignore Prophetic Action. If you do zero damage how can 50% of the damage dealt become several thousand?
i've been pvping since the release on xbox in the earliest lvl you could on my SW and from my experience this is how i would rate the classes in pvp.
I'm a gear Hellbringer SW 21% pvp resistance, profound armor (no weapon, ornaments), 13k+ gs w/ pvp gear
TR > HR > CW > DC > SW > GF > GWF
TR: There is absolutely 0 counter play to a perma stealth rogue (or perma daze), I've seen a rogue solo hold a point the entire game and the only way we killed him was 1v3. I've been sent to 15% hp in 1 hit while using shadow slip TRs can break cc (except knockups) and reduce dmg. I've fought a guild that ran 4 perma daze rogues in pvp, that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> was not fun and for the love of everything i can't remember the guild name.
HR: Your snares are hella annoying and do so much dmg but as a SW i can actually 1v1 this class and its kinda fun
CW: 100% crit rate for 6s + 30% chance to do extra dmg on crits + lots of single target cc
DC: Astral Shield.
SW: Glass cannon. Cannot dodge attacks, shadow slip reduces dmg by 30% which still is worth nothing when we have no def. Shadow slip = wonderful vs CW. Terrible vs TR. You can stand still while using shadow slip, it stays active and you recover stamina (you would think this is wonderful vs TRs but it's not..., they still eat chunks of my hp but i can run so that's cool. I guess.) Really the only thing i can complain about is lifesteal kinda sucks for pvp except vs GFs and GWFs.
If you're using dreadtheft in pvp (@ lvl 60) then you're an idiot. IM JUST SAYIN.
GF: I can't really say much you guys hold up your shield and watch <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> happen
GWF: IMO this class is the hardest to play right now until you are geared (15k+ gs geared). I've played against a gwf who killed everyone on the team with one combo over and over and over.
Honestly if the OP class bother you too much I would just quit. I just shrug it off because I understand the mechanics of this games pvp and it doesn't bother. Every time a rogue jumps on my body or you see one of the people (who spent $1000's on a TR just to be perma stealth and push a couple of buttons or daze you infinitely) I just remember I enjoy my fair fights.
ONE thing to remember. This games pvp is absurdly easy and there will ALWAYS be the people trying to help there ego with a game, nothing wrong with that you've gotta make yourself happy some how. And I know it is hard to play PvP when theres 2 rogues both sides minimum every game. And people will deny that rogues are OP or just super annoying because they have the most forgiving game mechanics.
Just take everything with a grain or salt. Because I am sure the people that put a ton of money in this game for ego purposes aren't going anywhere. Just don't let it bother you and you can find enjoyment in this game. As soon as all you see is premades of Rekt or Iron Lotus or w.e the fotm *pvp* guild is, then maybe its time to move on, because there will be no skill shown on either side in an already super easy game.
And a support def tank + a trapper HR or a support Def Tank + executioner TR will slaughter a 2 man perma/daze TR team.
Mod 6 there will be 794856893850467 Paladins that will make TR's cry all day.
This is the most boring thing ive seen. Walking around with your shield up doing absolutely nothing. What are your stats like? How much money did ya put in the game ect. ect.? Most top pvp guilds I see are people in full legendary's. And what exactly is talented about these TR's or anyone in this game? The mechanics are super simple coming from WoW where you can have upwards of 65 keybinds.
This game is about...
1. MONEY How much ya want to spend today?
2. Copying builds and strats from the PC players or having played PC
3. Get your decked premade together and smash on people with 0 chance or hopefully face an equally geared team
I'm not trying to poke at you, its just the facts, you can't deny any of those.
I actually really enjoy this game, some times I get full premades or decked rogues, some times I get equal fair fights that go down to the wire. It's difficult finding that balance between impossible to win or so easy that it gets boring.
And a support def tank + a trapper HR or a support Def Tank + executioner TR will slaughter a 2 man perma/daze TR team.
Mod 6 there will be 794856893850467 Paladins that will make TR's cry all day.
1.This is the most boring thing ive seen. 2.Walking around with your shield up doing absolutely nothing. What are your stats like? 3.How much money did ya put in the game ect. ect.? 3a.Most top pvp guilds I see are people in full legendary's.4. And what exactly is talented about these TR's or anyone in this game? 5. The mechanics are super simple coming from WoW where you can have upwards of 65 keybinds.
This game is about...
1. MONEY How much ya want to spend today?
2. Copying builds and strats from the PC players or having played PC
3. Get your decked premade together and smash on people with 0 chance or hopefully face an equally geared team
I'm not trying to poke at you, its just the facts, you can't deny any of those.
I actually really enjoy this game, some times I get full premades or decked rogues, some times I get equal fair fights that go down to the wire. It's difficult finding that balance between impossible to win or so easy that it gets boring.
I'm going to restate what I said first in the original post.
1."The counter is not fun to the mass majority of the population aka Full Tank GF."
2. Making sure 2 TR's are wasted on me so my team is +1 on the field which means winning games not getting cool kills.
3. Not much, I just do everything on double refinement so my items are mostly all legendary except 2 artifacts and all rank 9 on the runes that matter plus optimized feats/tree I made to counter TR's of all sorts. No one else currently runs a GF in such a way. No one really runs a GF successfully that plays atm.
3a. I'm in one of the top "fotm" PvP guilds. Been here in May and June, see you in July too.
4. It's not about the talent of the TR's, it's about the, "And people will deny that rogues are OP or just super annoying because they have the most forgiving game mechanics." The OPness of TR's being diminished by another class.
5. I hear you, I had everything key binded and such on wow. You can check out my youtube to see my multi 2500-2900RBG ratings as a FC PvP Prot warrior and look up the guide I made for FC Prot PvP Warriors, which was the #1 guide during Cata. WoW is much more complicated keybind wise and play wise and it's not on Console and this is what we have now and are playing. What did you do on WoW that can be shown out of curiosity?
1. Yes, this game is pay to win or grind forever to win.
2. Majority of people do copy builds and that's how it is. I personally didn't because I just have my own play style that's boring to everyone else, but satisfying to me.
3. Yep, playing in a decked out premade will win. It's stupid to fight against 4TR's and my vids are mostly against 4TR guilds except for the Rekt v Rekt games which are Rainbows(1 of each class) or mirrors which are much more fun.
Getting organized games is the way to go. That's why those games went for 40+ minutes and I did my strategic part to profit the team for the win. We lost some and we won some that I put up there and that's how it goes.
Also, I'm not sure what class you play, but each class has a skill factor, just as in WoW. DK's were face roll similar to some TR specs on here. You can see with my last video I was fighting a TR Pyriel, who was beating my face in and I was failing at bull charging him until I figured out and understood his rotation and I started knocking him off the ledge and countering his effectiveness where he was forced to call on a mage continuously to kill me which then took the mage off the map and forced 2v1's on me. That's where skill starts to come into play in a full support/countering/Node Trolling GF.
You've presented many facts that are true to the T, but some things were subjective and it's good to have a solid and mature conversation about it. It's rare on forums.
Respect (Ali-G voice). I think I have come to the point where I am just bored of this game after seeing it for what it is. On wow I pretty much played every class around 2300-2500 bracket in 2's 3's. Never really got into RBG's much, most of my friends moved on at that point. Honestly, that game ruined every other game for me haha. I just really wish I could get into this game. It did last me for about 4 months for a free game which is great. I think the community and amount of cocky children with money, or adults that act like cocky children just kind of ruined it. The PvE is trash and only 2 maps for PVP with loads and loads of TR's, HR's and CW's just kinda of makes it boring after a while. I couldn't level my rogue past 20, it felt too easy.
All in all the skill ceiling on this game is super low which makes it not have much longevity. I think I need to go back to PC gaming :P Appreciate the talk man and GL to you guys, hope you can enjoy it for a while.
Comments
I've only started playing PVP as I wanted to get my T2 gear for PVE first then start branching to PVP; and the main issue I see is the matchmaking....
The matchmaking is appalling, especially when you can have 1 team with 3 TRs where on mine we have 1.... Then, the next issue; the matchmaking is throwing PVE geared players into high PVP geared players. How can people get PVP gear is they have NO glory for gear.
This is what makes people squishy to the TRs.... As said previous, as TRs have these abilities; they can generate glory much faster thus making it EVEN harder to go against them.
TRs aren't invincible.... I know as many have fallen to my Harrowstorm/Killing Flame/Dreadtheft combo; it's the high deflection change they naturally have that makes 'em the ballache I have with em
BamBam - Lvl 30 GWF
Trevok - Lvl 30 GF
Wil - Lvl 25 TR (PvP)
Dodging maybe, but stuns?!? No! We all have CC resist in PVP. If you are having issues with CC effects, improve your gear
BamBam - Lvl 30 GWF
Trevok - Lvl 30 GF
Wil - Lvl 25 TR (PvP)
good luck with the dazed of Trs.
I think the fix for trs is probably easy. I noticed they have way too many skills that ignore dr... as a gwf, my only defense is my gear(which is less defensive than a GF) and unstoppable that gives me dr, but against trs it is useless because of all their armor piercing skills. If they would take that away, keep even the damage of the skill, but remove the armor piercing feature it would fix a lot of the problems I think
DENIAL
My first forum post, Rogues are not OP!!
To the guy who started this who didnt even know what tenacity was, wow.
To the guy who says it's too hard to get PVP gear, play more! To all complainers, it's an MMO RPG, it's not supposed to be easy or quick to get the best gear I mean the games only been out a few months!!
I play PVE and PVP but because as a TR you invariably get kicked first in PVE and I found it hard to get games I decided to concentrate on PVP, so I have geared and specced myself to be as powerful as I can be in PVP, did any of you ever think that people may be doing this? PVP is another aspect of the game that requires a different approach, setup and gear!
I am not a perma stealth rogue I do not abuse shadow of demise and I do not use plaguefire! How did I get my vorpal? I played the game! Yes I was lucky enough to complete campaign early so I could make money from dragon gems when they were worth something and I have 6 professions to 20 so I can make some money selling things. This enables me to tweak as much as poss so I'm ridiculously powerful in PVP where I regularly get 25plus kills with no deaths, but it wasn't always like this I had to work at it! Too many people come on forums or even heard online complaining and moaning because it's too hard or whatever character is OP but the reality is, hunters, clerics and control wizards are all Extremely powerful in PVP if set up correctly, hell wizards don't even have to be set up for PVP to be great in it!
I know this cos I've played the game to death with many other friends playing other classes etc. I can still struggle against some players now in PVP not just rogues but all other classes it's all about how you've set your class up, if you think you can have your same PVE setup in PVP and do well then think again, and if you think anyone can rule as a rogue then think again, I worked bloody hard to get my char set up the way it is so does that make me OP? Of course not it just means I'm putting time and effort into the game to get better!
Here's a hint, before you complain, think!!! Is this guy setup totally for PVP? And are you? If not, you'll lose! It's not supposed to be a pick up and do well games it's a long term RPG with some many mechanics and technical things going on it's really an idea to find out what it's all about before you come on a forum and complain when you haven't got a clue what you're talking about, I mean come on no idea what tenacity is? Yes you are a nub! Spend more time researching your char and how it works against others before complaining, console gamers want everything instantly and that's why you need to remember it's not that sort of game!
So yes the big statement is, learn how to play your char in PVP and you'll do better. Hell I stand toe to toe with Many class's without using stealth to prove my point of just how badly geared and set up some of these players are, last point, if you go into PVP during PVP hour with no PVP gear or potions then you're wasting yours and your teams time. Lost count of how many people I've had on my team who just give up and then I see they have no PVP gear on, how can you ever expect to win if you don't get any? Especially during PVP hour when we're on trying to get more glory, don't need any more myself now as I have everything available to buy in the trade of blades but the point still stands. PVP is not PVE and should be treated as a different game almost so think about that before you complain cos you guys just look stupid, and will continue to die.
http://xboxclips.com/Skeld1/cfb02af6-3050-45e4-bebd-98fd82e4d49a
-ASYLUM-
Before mod 6, they nerfed SoD by 50% and removed the plaguefire glitch, and also nerfed the daze duration by 50%.
So we will probably have these changes as soon as they bring the rise of tiamat patch. However, we will have the saboteurs destroying us with their shadow opportunity piercing damage. Sadly, shadow opportunity is only nerfed recently on mod 6, so we can't expect anytime soon. Piercing damage was the worst thing they ever made. Specially when this ignores everything a class have, specially a class that relies on defense, hp, and deflect to survive.
Ah, another cool thing for us is that ItC won't give any more CC immunity on mod 6. So our only useful CC (FS) Won't be negated by trs anymore.
I can see they are moving the game toward a more balanced aspect, but I guess it will take a long time before it hits on xbox. At least in rise of tiamat we should have less SoD damage and no glitch, which is something already.
I feel GWFs do balanced against every other class though.
DENIAL
I was looking at the PC leaderboard for the Combat League. Seems like a lot of TR's.
-ASYLUM-
the shadow opportunity change is something recent. But I still think even nerfed, these stuffs are stupid. It is stupid they give a class bonus damage that bypass DR/DEFLECTION/UNSTOPPABLE, and even tenacity. Not to forget they have 100% critic chance under stealth. That means that they have the advantage of only stack power on their builds or recovery for faster cooldowns without losing DPS.
it is unbalanced specially against fighters that do not have dodges and relies on high dr/deflection etc.
not to forget, the new good enchantment is negation, and again, trs hit people as if they were mobs because of that as well.
the piercing damage is the worst thing they ever made. Doesn't make sense to me they remove the prones from GWF and give trs piercing damage, but well...
DENIAL
http://xboxclips.com/Skeld1/eec51a19-14d4-4017-adb0-650bdd2fff5b
38,500 HP, 1,000 Tenacity, 3,100 Defense, 2,000 Deflection.
I keep posting this stuff just so the absurdity is well known.
-ASYLUM-
i dont understand how they could give a class stuff such as armor piercing (something that ignores DR, TENACITY unstoppable, deflect) after they removed the GWFs CC, nerfed the damage of FS. makes no sense.
because of piercing damage and 100% critical chance under stealth. trs can stack power/silvery without worry about armor pen and critical. The dev that had the idea of make those TRs feats really made a mistake. It is not like TRs were underpowered before. TRs WERE always fighting for the top of pvp chain. Makes no sense they got that stupid "buff"
DENIAL
They are the ultimate glass cannons but they are limited to medium or close range and without a CC break are usually dead moments after leaving stealth.
Also its rare for any type of rogue other than a perma stun to be able to kill a cleric.
Personally I run a perma stealth rogue with full profound, perfect vorpal and over a 17k GS and as much as I can lock down a point I have to be very careful with attacking controllers and if my stealth gets broken by an AoE or lucky hit in usually screwed.
If your not running a CW, HR or TR then thats your choice but every piece of info that was out before the game (for PC) said those classes were strongest in Mod 5. If you ignored that its fine but you were warned. In future mods, 6 for example that changes and GWF's become OP.
Finally if your new to PvP then you'll see more rogues then any other class and even the bad rogues can hit hard if your not geared right but tbh a HR or CW could just as easily teach you that lesson.
EDIT: Also note if your a DPS spec and not using a lantern to deal with difficult rogues then your always gunna have issues.
EDIT: Vengeance Pursuit and Deft Strike allow rogues to teleport to their targets. The first teleports in front while the other teleports behind. If you stand still still your asking for trouble but tbh I know of no point in either map that isnt accessible from atleast 2 routes. If you think your "safe" on a pillar then your not as you've just made yourself a priority.
Ah yes, we should probably remove those other classes then. We don't want to upset our rogue overlords.
-ASYLUM-
GWF OP on mod 6? where have you heard this non sense. go to the forum and you will see how people complain of them being underperforming on mod 6 as well. They removed our roar root, our prones from takedown and frontline surge, they reduced the damage of frontline surged, and nerfed the DR bonus from destroyer and instigator.
On mod 6, armor piercing was nerfed, but it still exists. You think it is fair a class has features that bypass all dr/deflection/and even tenacity?
GWF is very gear dependent, and on high end pvp scenarion (im talking about competitive pvp, guild vs guild, premades, it underperforms a lot. and tr is still the op class as far as it goes on mod 6).
I made a thread with some of the comments from PC players about GWF and they still complaining about armor piercing and that gwf underperforms on PVP due trs existance.
GWF has only two viable cc encounters. One is a 0.2 seconds stun that has to be very close to hit and very easy to dodge due long animation(takedown). second is 17second cooldown, poor damage, and easy to dodge, longer stun duration, but still crappy against trs since they just need to time their ItC.
nope, it is not good at all.
all that added is too heavy considering GWFs are a class that do not have dodges; therefore, have to rely on sprint and defense stats more. soon, the "don't be standing" still do not really apply to GWFs/GFs.
Yes, the other classes can fight TRs better, but thanks to their already low DR (so the armor piercing feats do not factor that much in), and because they have dodges and more CC (HRs, and CWs). But a good TR is still better than any other of these classes, and cannot be countered by any of them unless there are at least 2 players for one tr.
In what world are rogues supposed to tank and hold a point better than tanky classes, need at least 2 strong players?
The point is. TRs never struggled as a class to be fighting over the top on pvp. ever since the game was released, TRs were ALWAYS viable on PvP, and always performed good. What is the point of buffing more a class that already does great and give them feats that bypass all defenses or daze them for ages that they cannot dodge or use any encounter?
if you think trs are not overpowered, then you are really afraid of something be fixed. Just look at trs population.
If you solo q for pvp, you will almost always be in a team with 2 trs fighting another team with 2 trs. And a lot of premades run with 3 or even 4 trs. this alone shows the trend.
DENIAL
The second part of SoD also seems to ignore Prophetic Action. If you do zero damage how can 50% of the damage dealt become several thousand?
-ASYLUM-
I'm a gear Hellbringer SW 21% pvp resistance, profound armor (no weapon, ornaments), 13k+ gs w/ pvp gear
TR > HR > CW > DC > SW > GF > GWF
TR: There is absolutely 0 counter play to a perma stealth rogue (or perma daze), I've seen a rogue solo hold a point the entire game and the only way we killed him was 1v3. I've been sent to 15% hp in 1 hit while using shadow slip TRs can break cc (except knockups) and reduce dmg. I've fought a guild that ran 4 perma daze rogues in pvp, that <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> was not fun and for the love of everything i can't remember the guild name.
HR: Your snares are hella annoying and do so much dmg but as a SW i can actually 1v1 this class and its kinda fun
CW: 100% crit rate for 6s + 30% chance to do extra dmg on crits + lots of single target cc
DC: Astral Shield.
SW: Glass cannon. Cannot dodge attacks, shadow slip reduces dmg by 30% which still is worth nothing when we have no def. Shadow slip = wonderful vs CW. Terrible vs TR. You can stand still while using shadow slip, it stays active and you recover stamina (you would think this is wonderful vs TRs but it's not..., they still eat chunks of my hp but i can run so that's cool. I guess.) Really the only thing i can complain about is lifesteal kinda sucks for pvp except vs GFs and GWFs.
If you're using dreadtheft in pvp (@ lvl 60) then you're an idiot. IM JUST SAYIN.
GF: I can't really say much you guys hold up your shield and watch <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> happen
GWF: IMO this class is the hardest to play right now until you are geared (15k+ gs geared). I've played against a gwf who killed everyone on the team with one combo over and over and over.
NOTE: This is all from a SW POV.
Here's a game vs 4 talented TR's of Denial and in 50 minutes of tanking 2 Tr's I died 3x and got 3 kills:
And a support def tank + a trapper HR or a support Def Tank + executioner TR will slaughter a 2 man perma/daze TR team.
Mod 6 there will be 794856893850467 Paladins that will make TR's cry all day.
ONE thing to remember. This games pvp is absurdly easy and there will ALWAYS be the people trying to help there ego with a game, nothing wrong with that you've gotta make yourself happy some how. And I know it is hard to play PvP when theres 2 rogues both sides minimum every game. And people will deny that rogues are OP or just super annoying because they have the most forgiving game mechanics.
Just take everything with a grain or salt. Because I am sure the people that put a ton of money in this game for ego purposes aren't going anywhere. Just don't let it bother you and you can find enjoyment in this game. As soon as all you see is premades of Rekt or Iron Lotus or w.e the fotm *pvp* guild is, then maybe its time to move on, because there will be no skill shown on either side in an already super easy game.
This is the most boring thing ive seen. Walking around with your shield up doing absolutely nothing. What are your stats like? How much money did ya put in the game ect. ect.? Most top pvp guilds I see are people in full legendary's. And what exactly is talented about these TR's or anyone in this game? The mechanics are super simple coming from WoW where you can have upwards of 65 keybinds.
This game is about...
1. MONEY How much ya want to spend today?
2. Copying builds and strats from the PC players or having played PC
3. Get your decked premade together and smash on people with 0 chance or hopefully face an equally geared team
I'm not trying to poke at you, its just the facts, you can't deny any of those.
I actually really enjoy this game, some times I get full premades or decked rogues, some times I get equal fair fights that go down to the wire. It's difficult finding that balance between impossible to win or so easy that it gets boring.
I'm going to restate what I said first in the original post.
1."The counter is not fun to the mass majority of the population aka Full Tank GF."
2. Making sure 2 TR's are wasted on me so my team is +1 on the field which means winning games not getting cool kills.
3. Not much, I just do everything on double refinement so my items are mostly all legendary except 2 artifacts and all rank 9 on the runes that matter plus optimized feats/tree I made to counter TR's of all sorts. No one else currently runs a GF in such a way. No one really runs a GF successfully that plays atm.
3a. I'm in one of the top "fotm" PvP guilds. Been here in May and June, see you in July too.
4. It's not about the talent of the TR's, it's about the, "And people will deny that rogues are OP or just super annoying because they have the most forgiving game mechanics." The OPness of TR's being diminished by another class.
5. I hear you, I had everything key binded and such on wow. You can check out my youtube to see my multi 2500-2900RBG ratings as a FC PvP Prot warrior and look up the guide I made for FC Prot PvP Warriors, which was the #1 guide during Cata. WoW is much more complicated keybind wise and play wise and it's not on Console and this is what we have now and are playing. What did you do on WoW that can be shown out of curiosity?
Cata Prot FC Guide: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/2089113503
Youtube WoW Channel: youtube.com/user/Shoukon32
1. Yes, this game is pay to win or grind forever to win.
2. Majority of people do copy builds and that's how it is. I personally didn't because I just have my own play style that's boring to everyone else, but satisfying to me.
3. Yep, playing in a decked out premade will win. It's stupid to fight against 4TR's and my vids are mostly against 4TR guilds except for the Rekt v Rekt games which are Rainbows(1 of each class) or mirrors which are much more fun.
Getting organized games is the way to go. That's why those games went for 40+ minutes and I did my strategic part to profit the team for the win. We lost some and we won some that I put up there and that's how it goes.
Also, I'm not sure what class you play, but each class has a skill factor, just as in WoW. DK's were face roll similar to some TR specs on here. You can see with my last video I was fighting a TR Pyriel, who was beating my face in and I was failing at bull charging him until I figured out and understood his rotation and I started knocking him off the ledge and countering his effectiveness where he was forced to call on a mage continuously to kill me which then took the mage off the map and forced 2v1's on me. That's where skill starts to come into play in a full support/countering/Node Trolling GF.
You've presented many facts that are true to the T, but some things were subjective and it's good to have a solid and mature conversation about it. It's rare on forums.
All in all the skill ceiling on this game is super low which makes it not have much longevity. I think I need to go back to PC gaming :P Appreciate the talk man and GL to you guys, hope you can enjoy it for a while.
< Goon Squad >