Cw gets more control? What happened last time? Oh yeah everyone lost their minds and it was nerfed so **** fast.
And we have to accept our role as secondary damage? You can figure out where to stick that. I could care less what the flavour text says That's moonstone mask talk.
On the matter of CWs. 45K SS procs were high. And repel canceling was a simple annoyance in PvP. But you have to remember, even if said powers needed to be toned down in the first place, this is a big dip in performance of most CWs both in PvP and PvE. You should all rethink about letting them either keep shield or get a massive boost elsewhere (option 1 may be easier for devs, since they obviously have a full plate with two other classes queued up for nerfing).
I play a TR, so I'm happy, maybe I can finally do a WK holiday from sabo and not rage against repel spammers.
I play a DC, it SUCKS, because dungeons will be even harder now. If it takes twice as long for wizards to kill things, it takes twice effort for me to keep them all alive while they do it.
icyphishMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,255Arc User
edited June 2015
I was hoping they would fix up TR's much-previlaged PIERCING damage... if they can remove the piercing and adjust stealth to always +20~30% cri instead of 100% crit then the dps would be quite balanced on the DPS class. And then it would be just adjustment on DC/OP's heal/tankiness.... and then we will be good!
defiantone99
I think the classes were pretty much balanced. The divide now is the RP gear like mythics and rank 12s. If you can not kill a similarly geared person, you just need to play better. Getting killed usually just comes down to lack of skill or gear.
you never played PVP obviously, right, or you play a nub TR?
beeing melted by 5 hits from a mediocre geared TR is balanced?
All from stealth, never shown up?
yes, i now what will come: " find him in stealth, wait for him to get out of stealth".... you are dead in a few seconds playing a warlock even full tenacity gear and this game is not called : " Hide and seek (or you are dead)"
SOD + elol-set = byby + wheel = don´t come back
this is more anoying than some Paladin in mediocre gear that can´t be defeated, this is not so hard to conter....send your Paladin, GF, DC or CW or any class that can push him away from node, like a punshing ball
lots of player tend to stick with the Paladin as flies surrounding a pile of s.hit, not believing they can´t succeed
That would take most of the TRs damage output away and leave them perma-gimp. I am a GWF as main, but come on, GWF will get new nerfs and you will be here complaining. But, you want CW and TR nerfs. It is unreal.
Nothing unreal. That's exactly how it was before mod5 and people accepted that as a FACT.
Refer to the history of TRs and PvP and you know this to be true. Prior to mod5 and the total redesign of the TRs, between mod2 ~ mod4 the most "standard" TR build/tactic known by far was something called the "semi-perma". Most veterans can probably relate to those nostalgic days.
When there was no "stealth depletion on at-wills", the semi-perma method made use of jumping DF attacks as its main source of damage which hit hard due to stealth bonuses, and it was easy to set-up and hit thanks to the small "ring" structure of Domination nodes. This method offered you around 2 DF attacks from stealth, and then SS to restealth, spend some time and repeat DF attacks, and then ITC, and then SS recharge->restealth, and rinse and repeat. It formed an almost perfect rotation with ZERO weaknesses in that whenever it was visible (which was quite often, compared to perma) it was on ITC, and whenever ITC was on cool it was in stealth.
This was called the "semi-perma", and was considered quite OP in that the tactic offered good damage as well as almost perfect defense, but even in those days a high-INT permastealth build existed. This was total invisibility, but it was actually not as popular as the semi-perma and nobody really went that far a length to complain about it because to become so untouchable it took a lot of sacrifices to make the build work. The damage was pathetically low because you'd push most of your stats into CON and INT, and in many cases you'd actually meet a threshold where the damage you deal by throwing CoS shots would not be able to overcome the target's high regen.
In other words, it was a frustrating foe to fight against and nigh uncatchable, but still wasn't considered as OP because it couldn't kill anything with that pathetic damage. That's why most TRs simply gave up with the cumbersome and strenuous build and moved over to the semi-perma builds which was more OP, but took a bit of skill and understanding, as well as gave better results in combat.
This was how it was back then, and exactly how it should be now. If the Sabo wants to deal damage, then it needs to come close and risk using the higher damage encounter powers, bigger attacks, and at-wills like Duelist's Flurry just like the rest of us TRs are doing currently
The original intent behind mod5 changes were to get rid of the old, lame, OP stuff from the TRs and compensate by giving each paths a unique fighting pattern. During mod5 the devs went a bit overboard and all three paths were considered OP, but in mod6, with additional nerfs to each of the paths, as well as shortening of the stealth duration, now scoundrels can't permadaze and executioners can't 1-shot. Even the rotation is unstable and systematically there's always a moment where you become vulnerable.
But then, Sabos? Not only did it become even easier to build a permastealth, but even the damage went insanely high. It was insanely high in mod5, and now in mod6, it's just gross.[/color]
...
Compared to the old high-INT builds, mod5 Sabos are nothing but an easy-mode, dumbed-down, kiddy version of the old permastealth. At least permastealth players back then accepted the fact that they are purely for disruption and node contending, and wasn't very good in direct combat at all. These days? With stuff like LoL set bonuses, broken OP WoE artifact, crazy-fast AP gains, Shadowy Opportunity piercing damage, and OWTS, it's just nothing but an easy-mode faceroll build. It sacrifices nothing, unlike how the old permas sacrificed so much.
Being a perma's fine in my book, if you want to risk having zero damage and be invulnerable like the OPal. But just like the OPal has pathetic damage, the same should be true with the Sabo permastealth and this is not something new, or unreal, or unfair. It was always the truth which sort of "self-balanced" perma users, and real TR players know it. This truth was only temporarily suspended in mod5.
Again, if the Sabo wants to kill something, it needs to come close to the target and take risks with prolonged attacks just like any of us scoundrels or executioners are doing currently. Suffer shorter stealth durations, suffer situations where you may be destealthed without your ITC or SS ready. They have no business hitting with damage that deals 5~6k per pop, from total invisibility, from range, and not even resistable or deflectable. Defending a mechanic which allows this is just plain wrong.
Yes, you ( and every other bis PVP GWF ) will be good but we wont be. Vague suggestions like " do something about DC/OPs tankiness " are being presented without consideration. So, consider this, currently an OPal has either his tankiness or his healing based on build. No damage whatsoever in PVP. What does this mean? It means that any change to said tankiness/healing will be a direct hit on the class's performance. If its done it would require another class rebalance because Paladins will fail to perform what they are supposed to perform. We will not only be unable to take anyone down but we will be irrelevant as node holders too. Do you really want to keep spinning in the infinite loop of nerf this/buff that/nerf this/buf that? Can we put a stop to this HAMSTER and just play for a change? The only class that needs changes now is the SW and they need it badly maybe some love to the HR as well and thats it. BIS GWFs finish GG with zero deaths these days and with a good number of kills. Good Paladins mostly fnish with zeros in both. TRs are OK. GF are OK, CW will have to stick to control more and dps less, GWFs are both tanky and do great DPS with the best anti CC in the game, so you are OK already. DCs are OK
Paladins enjoyed being broken in an overpowered way with DJ, now thats gone and since it was our only damage we are like a knight without a sword. You cant ask us to take the armor off too.
I doubt they will nerf SO proc, cause TR primary role is dps and 2 other feat paths are useless atm. You can have a BIS TR, yet you will s.ck Paladins DR daily as you wont be able to kill anything even with over 9k item lvl.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
I was hoping they would fix up TR's much-previlaged PIERCING damage... if they can remove the piercing and adjust stealth to always +20~30% cri instead of 100% crit then the dps would be quite balanced on the DPS class. And then it would be just adjustment on DC/OP's heal/tankiness.... and then we will be good!
I have never been a fan of piercing or "free" damage. It's lazy design and leads to lazy play. If they don't remove piercing damage, it must at least respect Tenacity. As a Combat HR, removing piercing damage will hurt a lot but I'd rather be gone with Piercing Blades. Same goes for Scything Blades - also potential "free" damage. I hate it. Give us back our 10% Crit chance for one.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I have never been a fan of piercing or "free" damage. It's lazy design and leads to lazy play. If they don't remove piercing damage, it must at least respect Tenacity. As a Combat HR, removing piercing damage will hurt a lot but I'd rather be gone with Piercing Blades. Same goes for Scything Blades - also potential "free" damage. I hate it. Give us back our 10% Crit chance for one.
Piercing Blades isn't piercing damage. It's just a 40% damage boost but translated as an additional hit instead of being given to the current skill.
0
lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
Piercing Blades isn't piercing damage. It's just a 40% damage boost but translated as an additional hit instead of being given to the current skill.
Tooltip for Piercing Blade: Melee attacks deal an additional 8/16/24/32/40% damage as Piercing damage. Piercing damage is Physical damage that cannot be resisted or deflected.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I was hoping they would fix up TR's much-previlaged PIERCING damage... if they can remove the piercing and adjust stealth to always +20~30% cri instead of 100% crit then the dps would be quite balanced on the DPS class. And then it would be just adjustment on DC/OP's heal/tankiness.... and then we will be good!
As long as they tone down negation, I think that would be fair.
Yes Cw nerfed and TRs still the gods of this game. very nice
Its very strange, why the TRs never is nerfed?
Already have the best ability = invisible.
Best class and crypit nerf a cw, wtf
Comments
And we have to accept our role as secondary damage? You can figure out where to stick that. I could care less what the flavour text says That's moonstone mask talk.
I play a TR, so I'm happy, maybe I can finally do a WK holiday from sabo and not rage against repel spammers.
I play a DC, it SUCKS, because dungeons will be even harder now. If it takes twice as long for wizards to kill things, it takes twice effort for me to keep them all alive while they do it.
/nuffsaid
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
you never played PVP obviously, right, or you play a nub TR?
beeing melted by 5 hits from a mediocre geared TR is balanced?
All from stealth, never shown up?
yes, i now what will come: " find him in stealth, wait for him to get out of stealth".... you are dead in a few seconds playing a warlock even full tenacity gear and this game is not called : " Hide and seek (or you are dead)"
SOD + elol-set = byby + wheel = don´t come back
this is more anoying than some Paladin in mediocre gear that can´t be defeated, this is not so hard to conter....send your Paladin, GF, DC or CW or any class that can push him away from node, like a punshing ball
lots of player tend to stick with the Paladin as flies surrounding a pile of s.hit, not believing they can´t succeed
Nothing unreal. That's exactly how it was before mod5 and people accepted that as a FACT.
Refer to the history of TRs and PvP and you know this to be true. Prior to mod5 and the total redesign of the TRs, between mod2 ~ mod4 the most "standard" TR build/tactic known by far was something called the "semi-perma". Most veterans can probably relate to those nostalgic days.
When there was no "stealth depletion on at-wills", the semi-perma method made use of jumping DF attacks as its main source of damage which hit hard due to stealth bonuses, and it was easy to set-up and hit thanks to the small "ring" structure of Domination nodes. This method offered you around 2 DF attacks from stealth, and then SS to restealth, spend some time and repeat DF attacks, and then ITC, and then SS recharge->restealth, and rinse and repeat. It formed an almost perfect rotation with ZERO weaknesses in that whenever it was visible (which was quite often, compared to perma) it was on ITC, and whenever ITC was on cool it was in stealth.
This was called the "semi-perma", and was considered quite OP in that the tactic offered good damage as well as almost perfect defense, but even in those days a high-INT permastealth build existed. This was total invisibility, but it was actually not as popular as the semi-perma and nobody really went that far a length to complain about it because to become so untouchable it took a lot of sacrifices to make the build work. The damage was pathetically low because you'd push most of your stats into CON and INT, and in many cases you'd actually meet a threshold where the damage you deal by throwing CoS shots would not be able to overcome the target's high regen.
In other words, it was a frustrating foe to fight against and nigh uncatchable, but still wasn't considered as OP because it couldn't kill anything with that pathetic damage. That's why most TRs simply gave up with the cumbersome and strenuous build and moved over to the semi-perma builds which was more OP, but took a bit of skill and understanding, as well as gave better results in combat.
This was how it was back then, and exactly how it should be now. If the Sabo wants to deal damage, then it needs to come close and risk using the higher damage encounter powers, bigger attacks, and at-wills like Duelist's Flurry just like the rest of us TRs are doing currently
The original intent behind mod5 changes were to get rid of the old, lame, OP stuff from the TRs and compensate by giving each paths a unique fighting pattern. During mod5 the devs went a bit overboard and all three paths were considered OP, but in mod6, with additional nerfs to each of the paths, as well as shortening of the stealth duration, now scoundrels can't permadaze and executioners can't 1-shot. Even the rotation is unstable and systematically there's always a moment where you become vulnerable.
But then, Sabos? Not only did it become even easier to build a permastealth, but even the damage went insanely high. It was insanely high in mod5, and now in mod6, it's just gross.[/color]
...
Compared to the old high-INT builds, mod5 Sabos are nothing but an easy-mode, dumbed-down, kiddy version of the old permastealth. At least permastealth players back then accepted the fact that they are purely for disruption and node contending, and wasn't very good in direct combat at all. These days? With stuff like LoL set bonuses, broken OP WoE artifact, crazy-fast AP gains, Shadowy Opportunity piercing damage, and OWTS, it's just nothing but an easy-mode faceroll build. It sacrifices nothing, unlike how the old permas sacrificed so much.
Being a perma's fine in my book, if you want to risk having zero damage and be invulnerable like the OPal. But just like the OPal has pathetic damage, the same should be true with the Sabo permastealth and this is not something new, or unreal, or unfair. It was always the truth which sort of "self-balanced" perma users, and real TR players know it. This truth was only temporarily suspended in mod5.
Again, if the Sabo wants to kill something, it needs to come close to the target and take risks with prolonged attacks just like any of us scoundrels or executioners are doing currently. Suffer shorter stealth durations, suffer situations where you may be destealthed without your ITC or SS ready. They have no business hitting with damage that deals 5~6k per pop, from total invisibility, from range, and not even resistable or deflectable. Defending a mechanic which allows this is just plain wrong.
Sabos don't need SO. Remove it.
Feels nice to turn away from facts and deflect the issue, don't it.
Figured as much.
Dibs on that armour.
I have never been a fan of piercing or "free" damage. It's lazy design and leads to lazy play. If they don't remove piercing damage, it must at least respect Tenacity. As a Combat HR, removing piercing damage will hurt a lot but I'd rather be gone with Piercing Blades. Same goes for Scything Blades - also potential "free" damage. I hate it. Give us back our 10% Crit chance for one.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Piercing Blades isn't piercing damage. It's just a 40% damage boost but translated as an additional hit instead of being given to the current skill.
Tooltip for Piercing Blade: Melee attacks deal an additional 8/16/24/32/40% damage as Piercing damage. Piercing damage is Physical damage that cannot be resisted or deflected.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
As long as they tone down negation, I think that would be fair.
TRs never nerfed? you must be new
yes, TRs get nerfed. but nothing like the other classes.
they go from being supreme overlord god of pvp to overlord god of pvp. see, they were nerfed.
All the over moderation on this board and they let your name go... lol
not sure what you mean. Kunti is a hindu god. mother of the solar deity.
and i HAMSTER a lot. its what my husband calls me