I've never tried the Light branch at all. However the DPS output on Bulwark is definitely a lot less than on Justice, so as for "wind-up time": yes, you get that. I am seeing feats proc'ing left and right when in the bigger fights with bosses, brutes and elites. It's awesome. So what you see on paper must be pretty accurate: it really great, and it does take some wind-up.
I've seen a GMC post that indicated that the windup time was intentionally designed.
Devotion Justice has both Prism and Beacon of Hope for passive heals when you use a daily. Much of the healing I see comes from being able to spam encounters more often, since going Devotion tacks a heal onto just about everything.
Much of the healing I see comes from being able to spam encounters more often, since going Devotion tacks a heal onto just about everything.
Precisely! This is why I do not think of a Devotion OP as a tank because he is not a tank. He *CAN* tank, but he is not designed to be a tank. Devotion Tree is designed as a Leader/Healer. And in almost every encounter where Devotion gives healing the same encounter on Protection gives shielding/debuffing/buffing. (Ugh... I know we all already know this. I think I wrote it anyway for other classes who may peek in here, I dunno. I do not mean to sound condescending.)
I think this is genius on the part of the Devs - the Paragon you chose actually completely changes your character. I love this aspect. The problem is that most other players who never roll a Paladin do not and will not really understand that there are BIG differences between the two and end up chastising us when we Protections don't heal them or we Devotions aren;t pulling the agree off them. Heh.
Oh, but there is, prism heals insanely, much better then the light tree just by itself especially when you can keep up a perma daily. In addition, you can go through solo content much faster by yourself.
You have to have perma daily in the first place and group need to stack within 30m
Oh, I don't doubt justice will be nerfed. It's too good for teaming, tank or otherwise. It provides ridiculous refresh rates for teams, it has insane healing power thanks to prism, and it provides damage boosts to paladins that otherwise are behind. Even if the damage boost is meager, most paladins are probably going to hit up Justice over Light or Bulwark until that nerf hammer comes down on Justice. Or they beef up Bulwark and Light to give them things that are comparable.
thefabricantMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 5,248Arc User
edited June 2015
Id call devotion OP an off tank, I definitely would not want to take him in place of a tank, but if the group is in a situation where the tank is down and you need someone to hold the fort just a little longer, I think I would give that role to the devotion OP.
Id call devotion OP an off tank, I definitely would not want to take him in place of a tank, but if the group is in a situation where the tank is down and you need someone to hold the fort just a little longer, I think I would give that role to the devotion OP.
Yea, a good devotion can hold the fort, and a good cleric can keep a team up. Sadly, I've been having extremely bad experiences with clerics lately. Most just seem inclined to be DPS and forgetting to be helpful to the team in general. Honestly, I don't think it's because enemies hit too hard that T2 dungeons are rough, I think it's because the group healers are just trying to be DPS instead of healers that people have it so rough now that I take a long distance observation. Because a good healer will keep the team going,a b ad one and you will faceplant through a lot.
Id call devotion OP an off tank, I definitely would not want to take him in place of a tank, but if the group is in a situation where the tank is down and you need someone to hold the fort just a little longer, I think I would give that role to the devotion OP.
Yea, a good devotion can hold the fort, and a good cleric can keep a team up. Sadly, I've been having extremely bad experiences with clerics lately. Most just seem inclined to be DPS and forgetting to be helpful to the team in general. Honestly, I don't think it's because enemies hit too hard that T2 dungeons are rough, I think it's because the group healers are just trying to be DPS instead of healers that people have it so rough now that I take a long distance observation. Because a good healer will keep the team going,a b ad one and you will faceplant through a lot.
Both of these are excellent and frankly: quite accurate observations. It seems to me the really sweet spot party would have a Devotion OP as leader and Protection OP as tank. But the qq from some DCs, GWFs and GFs would be deafening. LOL
Both of these are excellent and frankly: quite accurate observations. It seems to me the really sweet spot party would have a Devotion OP as leader and Protection OP as tank. But the qq from some DCs, GWFs and GFs would be deafening. LOL
Oh I love it when I have a good healing devotion OP with me. I love it more when there's a cleric that knows how to be a cleric and is using things like astral shield to. It's startling shocking to me how few clerics use actually use one of their most powerful tools anymore, astral shield. I asked one the most healing they were doing was relying on their passive that would heal you if you dropped below a certain amount of health every now and then. Kind of not useful when a bad moment could see you drop instantly.
Hell, that cleric got upset when I asked them why they weren't using astral shield. I never understood that, if you are going into a dungeon, if you are not prepared to do the role you signed up for, you shouldn't go.
But this is the primary thing to remember: you are trading DPS for invincibility; everything takes a LOT longer, but even dragons "can't touch this'.
Which dragons are we talking about here? ToD or Heralds? Because my Justice pally is immortal against ToD dragons unless I get really unlucky with a DP/BO combo.
angrysprite
But this is the primary thing to remember: you are trading DPS for invincibility; everything takes a LOT longer, but even dragons "can't touch this'.
Which dragons are we talking about here? ToD or Heralds? Because my Justice pally is immortal against ToD dragons unless I get really unlucky with a DP/BO combo.
I'll qualify this portion of my statement by clarifying the context to be: 'general player, not BiS min-maxer elitists'.
Hell, that cleric got upset when I asked them why they weren't using astral shield. I never understood that, if you are going into a dungeon, if you are not prepared to do the role you signed up for, you shouldn't go.
Dang, I only have a Righteous DO (w/Benefit of Foresight), and I'm very hesitant to try pugging dungeons with her right now, but I wouldn't consider doing any group content more challenging than HE zerging or a CTA without slotting Astral Shield.
Both of these are excellent and frankly: quite accurate observations. It seems to me the really sweet spot party would have a Devotion OP as leader and Protection OP as tank. But the qq from some DCs, GWFs and GFs would be deafening. LOL
My experience is that a DC with Gift of Haste feated who drops reliable healing dots is better than an DevOP, because the DC doesn't need to stand near you to provide the benefit you are mostly looking for (more recovery).
As to DCs and Astral Shield its kind of a problem power. AS works when the fight is static and most of the party will be in the AS most of the time (also essential if the tank is the one you are gearing up), but in fights where the party is going to be spread out all over them AS is kind of useless. EG in Kessel's AS is great, in LoL vs the Scorpions or even Lostmauth if the party is ranged + tank, then AS is basically useless.
The DC as DPS is the same issue as the OP with DPS, it's not the class' job, but for solo play or PvP focus you need DPS.
Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin Obsidian Oath - Warlock A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
My experience is that a DC with Gift of Haste feated who drops reliable healing dots is better than an DevOP, because the DC doesn't need to stand near you to provide the benefit you are mostly looking for (more recovery).
As to DCs and Astral Shield its kind of a problem power. AS works when the fight is static and most of the party will be in the AS most of the time (also essential if the tank is the one you are gearing up), but in fights where the party is going to be spread out all over them AS is kind of useless. EG in Kessel's AS is great, in LoL vs the Scorpions or even Lostmauth if the party is ranged + tank, then AS is basically useless.
The DC as DPS is the same issue as the OP with DPS, it's not the class' job, but for solo play or PvP focus you need DPS.
The problem with AS being static isn't mobile fights it's that many DCs get impatient. Hell, today I was in LOL, and despite they wanted me to tank both Scorpions, and I wasn't really moving from my spot, the cleric was dropping AS on teh rest of the party who were not taking damage but not me in general. Thankfully, I am good about keeping tempest up and blocking right and stepping out of red zones but otherwise to anyone else that can be a nightmare.
My comments on the DC were based on my experience playing with my DC, other DC's missing where to place AS I cannot help you with I'm sorry.
And this is the point of my comment about how amazing a Dev-OP matched with Prot-OP over a DC would be; I've mained a DC since Alpha/Beta all the way to now (when OP is introduced) - it's not that the Dev-OP is any better than the DC in a sterile sense - it's how the class is played and I'm just finding the Dev-OP's being better-played than many DCs - perhaps it has to do with the mechanics being more forgiving to less-experienced players, I'm not sure.
I am fortunate that I did something when I respec'd (I'm still not entirely sure what) that my Protection OP is a literal brick wall with ridiculously short cool downs (I've *never* ever had cool downs this short on ANY of my other classes ever LOL) - so I can pretty much survive most content. Some of it can be a little spooky, but I haven't had to Camp at a fire yet.
I'll qualify this portion of my statement by clarifying the context to be: 'general player, not BiS min-maxer elitists'.
Lol. I'm about as far from BiS as it's possible to be. I have some R7 Radiants but the rest of my enchants are R5/6. Artifacts and Artifact gear are Blue. Lesser Negation. I do have a Greater weapon enchant but it's a Bronzewood.
Comments
I've seen a GMC post that indicated that the windup time was intentionally designed.
Devotion Justice has both Prism and Beacon of Hope for passive heals when you use a daily. Much of the healing I see comes from being able to spam encounters more often, since going Devotion tacks a heal onto just about everything.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
Precisely! This is why I do not think of a Devotion OP as a tank because he is not a tank. He *CAN* tank, but he is not designed to be a tank. Devotion Tree is designed as a Leader/Healer. And in almost every encounter where Devotion gives healing the same encounter on Protection gives shielding/debuffing/buffing. (Ugh... I know we all already know this. I think I wrote it anyway for other classes who may peek in here, I dunno. I do not mean to sound condescending.)
I think this is genius on the part of the Devs - the Paragon you chose actually completely changes your character. I love this aspect. The problem is that most other players who never roll a Paladin do not and will not really understand that there are BIG differences between the two and end up chastising us when we Protections don't heal them or we Devotions aren;t pulling the agree off them. Heh.
You have to have perma daily in the first place and group need to stack within 30m
Yea, a good devotion can hold the fort, and a good cleric can keep a team up. Sadly, I've been having extremely bad experiences with clerics lately. Most just seem inclined to be DPS and forgetting to be helpful to the team in general. Honestly, I don't think it's because enemies hit too hard that T2 dungeons are rough, I think it's because the group healers are just trying to be DPS instead of healers that people have it so rough now that I take a long distance observation. Because a good healer will keep the team going,a b ad one and you will faceplant through a lot.
Both of these are excellent and frankly: quite accurate observations. It seems to me the really sweet spot party would have a Devotion OP as leader and Protection OP as tank. But the qq from some DCs, GWFs and GFs would be deafening. LOL
Oh I love it when I have a good healing devotion OP with me. I love it more when there's a cleric that knows how to be a cleric and is using things like astral shield to. It's startling shocking to me how few clerics use actually use one of their most powerful tools anymore, astral shield. I asked one the most healing they were doing was relying on their passive that would heal you if you dropped below a certain amount of health every now and then. Kind of not useful when a bad moment could see you drop instantly.
Hell, that cleric got upset when I asked them why they weren't using astral shield. I never understood that, if you are going into a dungeon, if you are not prepared to do the role you signed up for, you shouldn't go.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I'll qualify this portion of my statement by clarifying the context to be: 'general player, not BiS min-maxer elitists'.
Dang, I only have a Righteous DO (w/Benefit of Foresight), and I'm very hesitant to try pugging dungeons with her right now, but I wouldn't consider doing any group content more challenging than HE zerging or a CTA without slotting Astral Shield.
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
My experience is that a DC with Gift of Haste feated who drops reliable healing dots is better than an DevOP, because the DC doesn't need to stand near you to provide the benefit you are mostly looking for (more recovery).
As to DCs and Astral Shield its kind of a problem power. AS works when the fight is static and most of the party will be in the AS most of the time (also essential if the tank is the one you are gearing up), but in fights where the party is going to be spread out all over them AS is kind of useless. EG in Kessel's AS is great, in LoL vs the Scorpions or even Lostmauth if the party is ranged + tank, then AS is basically useless.
The DC as DPS is the same issue as the OP with DPS, it's not the class' job, but for solo play or PvP focus you need DPS.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
The problem with AS being static isn't mobile fights it's that many DCs get impatient. Hell, today I was in LOL, and despite they wanted me to tank both Scorpions, and I wasn't really moving from my spot, the cleric was dropping AS on teh rest of the party who were not taking damage but not me in general. Thankfully, I am good about keeping tempest up and blocking right and stepping out of red zones but otherwise to anyone else that can be a nightmare.
My comments on the DC were based on my experience playing with my DC, other DC's missing where to place AS I cannot help you with I'm sorry.
Obsidian Oath - Warlock
A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
And this is the point of my comment about how amazing a Dev-OP matched with Prot-OP over a DC would be; I've mained a DC since Alpha/Beta all the way to now (when OP is introduced) - it's not that the Dev-OP is any better than the DC in a sterile sense - it's how the class is played and I'm just finding the Dev-OP's being better-played than many DCs - perhaps it has to do with the mechanics being more forgiving to less-experienced players, I'm not sure.
I am fortunate that I did something when I respec'd (I'm still not entirely sure what) that my Protection OP is a literal brick wall with ridiculously short cool downs (I've *never* ever had cool downs this short on ANY of my other classes ever LOL) - so I can pretty much survive most content. Some of it can be a little spooky, but I haven't had to Camp at a fire yet.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder