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ideas for harder content.(feedback of content)

rebellionstuffrebellionstuff Member Posts: 237 Bounty Hunter
edited June 2015 in PvE Discussion
ok so i was thinking of something like in elol where the ground comes with lava around you and you have to go to the middle. i was thinking of doing things like this in boss fights where you have to stand on say separate pillars to avoid dyeing or where the ground seperates from the map on a dragon map and your like flying and he trys to knock you off and you have to do a shift move to not be pushed off (gwf and sw shift mechanic would avoid it also) or things where you have to jump when it circles around the ground of the map. things like this that actually take thinking to do.

i want harder content but not a one hit fiesta i want actually thinking gameplay where i need to be human to do it. maps that change say a labyrinth map. maps with secret monsters and random attacks and spawns. just ones you cant predict and where you need to learn and work hard to accomplish something. im sure you devs can think of something. what do you guys think? please add ideas and elaborate.AND PLEASE USE THE FOUNDRY DEVS TO GET IDEAS AND HAVE CONTESTS FOR PEOPLE TO MAKE AWESOME MAPS THEY WOULD LOVE IT.
Post edited by rebellionstuff on

Comments

  • dragoness10dragoness10 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 780 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Make the monsters scaleable where they adjust to your party's IL, not nerfs the lvl of chrs according to the area whilst leaving same IL in place. That is my one suggestion here.

    Devs doing code feel free to groan at me. I know this sounds simple but may be far harder in implementation.
    " I tried to figure out the enigma that was you, and then I realized mastering Wild Magic was easier." - Old Wizard in Waterdeep

    "Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."

    "Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
  • quspivquspiv Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,087 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Lag is the biggest challenge.
  • phoenix1021phoenix1021 Member Posts: 532 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Give enemies in encounter groups different roles just like players have. Tanks that stand in our way while wizards rain fire on us, stealthed rogues flank us to get to our healers while their own healers keep their tanks alive. The first guild wars had something like that 10 years ago and enemies didn't need to be overleveled or have one-shots to be challenging.
  • urlord283urlord283 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,084 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I think a lot of the content is "hard"

    I still have not won a Epic PVP in mod 6
  • rebellionstuffrebellionstuff Member Posts: 237 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2015
    phoenix1021 wrote: »
    Give enemies in encounter groups different roles just like players have. Tanks that stand in our way while wizards rain fire on us, stealthed rogues flank us to get to our healers while their own healers keep their tanks alive. The first guild wars had something like that 10 years ago and enemies didn't need to be overleveled or have one-shots to be challenging.
    i love this idea!!!!
  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    phoenix1021 wrote: »
    Give enemies in encounter groups different roles just like players have. Tanks that stand in our way while wizards rain fire on us, stealthed rogues flank us to get to our healers while their own healers keep their tanks alive. The first guild wars had something like that 10 years ago and enemies didn't need to be overleveled or have one-shots to be challenging.

    They've already done this to a degree with the Dragon Cultists. And frankly, I think if they added healers to those as a standard monster, most players would <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> their pants.
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • rebellionstuffrebellionstuff Member Posts: 237 Bounty Hunter
    edited June 2015
    beckylunatic wrote: »
    They've already done this to a degree with the Dragon Cultists. And frankly, I think if they added healers to those as a standard monster, most players would <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> their pants.

    well the healer doesnt have to be that good. but imagine going against a pally. and also the dragon cultists arent smart enough. they let you flank the gf with ease. that should be at least mildly challenging.
  • agentorange9mmagentorange9mm Member Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    beckylunatic wrote: »
    They've already done this to a degree with the Dragon Cultists. And frankly, I think if they added healers to those as a standard monster, most players would <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> their pants.

    That gives me flashbacks to old school Epic Mad Dragon and those prenerfed eriynes many mods back. Those old heals were ******ed strong.
  • torontodavetorontodave Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 992 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    rebellionstuff wrote: »
    gameplay where i need to be human to do it. maps that change say a labyrinth map. what do you guys think? please add ideas and elaborate.AND PLEASE USE THE FOUNDRY DEVS TO GET IDEAS AND HAVE CONTESTS FOR PEOPLE TO MAKE AWESOME MAPS THEY WOULD LOVE IT.

    I like this idea. In fact, I think I could build a foundry where the map changes every time. Using secret markers in the first area, would affect the layout of the map in the second area .. if bots followed the exact same path in the first area, the second area would still be the same.. =/ but for the random adventurer, it would have a fair amount of replayability

    At best tho, It would be like the 3 paths to Tiamat. I do enjoy those variable paths tho. Prevents burnout.
    NW-DSQ39N5SJ - 'To Infinity, and BEYOND!' - Spelljammer Quest. Skyships, Indiana Jones moments
    NW-DC9R4J5EH - 'The Black Pearl' - Spelljammer! Phlo Riders and Space Orcs
    Thanks for all the fish.
  • query523query523 Member Posts: 1,515 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    agentorange9mm wrote: »
    That gives me flashbacks to old school Epic Mad Dragon and those prenerfed eriynes many mods back. Those old heals were ******ed strong.

    ^^^^ this is what made LMD oneof my favorites back in the day. Make it so number one. Make it so.
  • suicidalgodotsuicidalgodot Member Posts: 2,465 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    A totally simple one used in other games:

    Speed the mobs up a bit.
  • tonyswutonyswu Member Posts: 223 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    1. Make it so multiple CWs CC can't stack.
    2. Introduce CC fatigue (can't continuously CC).
  • umcjdkingumcjdking Member Posts: 276 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Honestly, there was nothing wrong with Mod 5 mob HP/Damage which kind of threw me for a loop when the devs dramatically changed all this random **** to try to make the post 60 game work.

    Epic Dread Vault was proof that more HP/more Damage mobs wasn't required. More CC and more mobile mobs were required.
  • gfalconiogfalconio Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 150 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Lostmaut is not hard, is laagy
    PVP GF Sword Master Dominion Champion :3
  • skitzopyroskitzopyro Member Posts: 125 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Go back to PvP if you want to fight enemies that have player powers... You don't like CC stacking even though its the only thing that saves players? Go PvP where Control is lower... stop ruining the PVE experience for casuals... nobody wants to spend 2-3 hours in a dungeon...
  • dsn1118dsn1118 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 682 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    rebellionstuff wrote: »
    ok so i was thinking of something like in elol where the ground comes with lava around you and you have to go to the middle. i was thinking of doing things like this in boss fights where you have to stand on say separate pillars to avoid dyeing or where the ground seperates from the map on a dragon map and your like flying and he trys to knock you off and you have to do a shift move to not be pushed off (gwf and sw shift mechanic would avoid it also) or things where you have to jump when it circles around the ground of the map. things like this that actually take thinking to do.

    i want harder content but not a one hit fiesta i want actually thinking gameplay where i need to be human to do it. maps that change say a labyrinth map. maps with secret monsters and random attacks and spawns. just ones you cant predict and where you need to learn and work hard to accomplish something. im sure you devs can think of something. what do you guys think? please add ideas and elaborate.AND PLEASE USE THE FOUNDRY DEVS TO GET IDEAS AND HAVE CONTESTS FOR PEOPLE TO MAKE AWESOME MAPS THEY WOULD LOVE IT.

    This kind of dungeons&raids requires some sort of drop after that amount of teamplay and work.Let me tell you something about this game's dungeon policy if you havent noticed.MAKE THE DUNGEONS STATİC SO PEOPLE CAN "GRIND" FOR NOTHING and get a peridot or aquamarine at the end with a hope of getting an artifact.Hell they even changed DD rules so people cant get gears and turn them mere 3k or4k raw AD
  • k3ll0k3ll0 Member Posts: 373 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    beckylunatic wrote: »
    They've already done this to a degree with the Dragon Cultists. And frankly, I think if they added healers to those as a standard monster, most players would <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> their pants.

    The last I checked (which was pre Mod 6 admittedly) the Redcap Witherers had a healing spell. Could get annoying when they managed to cast that on a near-dead Giantsoul you then had to pummel all over again.
  • ironzerg79ironzerg79 Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,942 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    phoenix1021 wrote: »
    Give enemies in encounter groups different roles just like players have. Tanks that stand in our way while wizards rain fire on us, stealthed rogues flank us to get to our healers while their own healers keep their tanks alive. The first guild wars had something like that 10 years ago and enemies didn't need to be overleveled or have one-shots to be challenging.

    This is already in the game. You have brute mobs that are hitpoint heavy and focus on getting up and close in melee. You have artillery mobs that focus on casting spells from a far. Skirmisher mobs are weak, but really mobile and try to flank and stab you to death. And there's leader mobs which heal and buff the group.

    And it's working. What you're seeing happen to people is groups ignoring the skirmisher and artillery mobs (Like the green and orange spiders in ToS), which are very weak, but hit really hard, and instead trying to DPS down the brute mobs, who are really just there to soak up damage while the other mobs rip you apart. If groups focused on the high DPS mobs first, and "ignored" the tank mobs, they've find a lot more success in dungeon content.
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  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    k3ll0 wrote: »
    The last I checked (which was pre Mod 6 admittedly) the Redcap Witherers had a healing spell. Could get annoying when they managed to cast that on a near-dead Giantsoul you then had to pummel all over again.

    Yup, Witherers are still there and will still mess you up royally if you don't get them first. Powries too with their AP-drain.

    My comment was specifically regarding the Cultist spawns having most roles covered but no healers.
    Guild Leader - The Lords of Light

    Neverwinter Census 2017

    All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
  • k3ll0k3ll0 Member Posts: 373 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    If you want to get technical about it the CoD packs don't have actual "casters" either, though in practice the green archers fill the same niche...
  • phoenix1021phoenix1021 Member Posts: 532 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    That's silly. All enemies in mod 6 have defender health/armor and striker damage. I was thinking of having to use actual tactics in fights. Instead of high health, the healer gives enemies buffs and temp hp, kill/disable him and all enemies are weakened. Or give some classes dispel spells. Things like that. Not Witherers that can heal one million health with one spell, while powries drain 100% of your AP in one hit that also deals 20k damage...
  • ofscourgeofscourge Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Few months ago (and some today too) people are crying EVERY DAY for the new content they THINK its WAY WAY HARDER.
    GMC point it out that, nah, when given time, it will be not that hard, but people are still crying!
    Look, look it is now. People still ask for harder content and lots (by any means a lot of them) are NOW state that we (yes including me, I'm not hypocrite) want that harder content.
    Look at they did with tiamat. Dont ask ridiculous things, instead, ask for decent things like, how about give us ability to team-queue for tiamat like GG.
    Or perhaps, Giving us Back the good old CN and other dungeons, or perhaps, more time development to get rid of annoying bug such as GF and Pallys SHIFT mechanism hm?
  • dragonogredragonogre Member Posts: 70 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    rebellionstuff wrote: »
    ok so i was thinking of something like in elol where the ground comes with lava around you and you have to go to the middle. i was thinking of doing things like this in boss fights where you have to stand on say separate pillars to avoid dyeing or where the ground seperates from the map on a dragon map and your like flying and he trys to knock you off and you have to do a shift move to not be pushed off (gwf and sw shift mechanic would avoid it also) or things where you have to jump when it circles around the ground of the map. things like this that actually take thinking to do.

    i want harder content but not a one hit fiesta i want actually thinking gameplay where i need to be human to do it. maps that change say a labyrinth map. maps with secret monsters and random attacks and spawns. just ones you cant predict and where you need to learn and work hard to accomplish something. im sure you devs can think of something. what do you guys think? please add ideas and elaborate.AND PLEASE USE THE FOUNDRY DEVS TO GET IDEAS AND HAVE CONTESTS FOR PEOPLE TO MAKE AWESOME MAPS THEY WOULD LOVE IT.

    The rubber banding makes the content harder if they remove that then increase the difficulty.
    Elemental Evil is the best module ever it fixed all the bugs!
  • tuesdayrolld20tuesdayrolld20 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 47 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    beckylunatic wrote: »
    <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> their pants.
    LOL!!!!! I almost choked on what I was drinking when I read this.

    After all the foul language I read in these forum, <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> comes as a refreshing change.
    Miri Droverson


  • suicidalgodotsuicidalgodot Member Posts: 2,465 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    ofscourge wrote: »
    Few months ago (and some today too) people are crying EVERY DAY for the new content they THINK its WAY WAY HARDER.
    GMC point it out that, nah, when given time, it will be not that hard, but people are still crying!
    Look, look it is now. People still ask for harder content and lots (by any means a lot of them) are NOW state that we (yes including me, I'm not hypocrite) want that harder content.
    [...]

    ...you're missing out on a wee fine detail:

    Almost everybody is fine with harder content being there. The current hard _solo_ campaign content, however, is somewhat less appreciable, especially since there's a big imbalance in how much that hardship affects different classes.

    Put in other words: Play a normally, campaign appropriately geared (i.e. way below BiS) SW or HR through IwD, or the WoD stuff, then report back. Dungeons and Raids - Party content !!! - a completely different piece of cake.

    Also, the _way_ with which Cryptic has "hardened up" the stuff is quite... ...suboptimal. I have seen many toughening ups in several games, and none were that cheesy that hey made everything, every mob into either a main battle tank or an OSK sniper. Like - as mentioned above - speeding all the reds up a wee...
  • araneaxaraneax Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 639 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Please do not ask for harder content then this.
    At least not until they fix things that are broken first.

    I dont mind more " interesting " dungeons. But for the love of god , think of Elol rubber banding, tiamat and MC.
    Do you want that to be fixed first or do you want even more demanding zones and dungeons.
    MC is broken. Elol, first try is a queen of rubber banding. You have to wipe and try again the second time, and it is common and normal.
    Tiamat is well, i can see why it is like it is. It can not be helped since i guess and i dont think they can fix it more then they did...
    d7d81448-df6b-48cf-94a0-cf1ba87d861a_zpsish6zr2v.jpg

  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    suicidalgodot wrote: »
    ... Like - as mentioned above - speeding all the reds up a wee...

    Speeding red a bit has a big problem:
    I'll rather have stuff that can one shot me but I know I can dodge, speeding up all the reds a bit and some of us who play with 200-300ms or more, wont be able to dodge, it's already happening with the scorpions, or the falling <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in elol where the damage is dealt before the telegraph/red zone because of latency.
  • suicidalgodotsuicidalgodot Member Posts: 2,465 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    micky1p00 wrote: »
    Speeding red a bit has a big problem:
    I'll rather have stuff that can one shot me but I know I can dodge, speeding up all the reds a bit and some of us who play with 200-300ms or more, wont be able to dodge, it's already happening with the scorpions, or the falling <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> in elol where the damage is dealt before the telegraph/red zone because of latency.

    Ah, I was too concise... ...quite an unusual thing with me :^D

    Well, there are several ways to speed stuff up. Being a 200-ish high-pinger myself, I rather thought of shorter cooldowns for their attacks. Not necessarily speeding them throughout... ...but basically, depending on class and healing capability, having to dodge more often can be quite a challenging issue...
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