Played pleanty of premades, did I mention the 100% pvp campaign compleation thing? Yeah, do actually play PvP a lot, thanks. The fact you're trying to claim that TRs are an 'Over powered' class says a lot. They are far FAR from the issue with PvP right now. In a long line of issues TRs are RIGHT low down. As I've said before, go speak to any of the top PvP guilds, TRs are not even close to the problem with PvP right now.
Also you haven't said any 'facts' all you have said is "TR's should loose 25% deflect severity." Do I need to link you to an online dictionary so you can look up the definition of the word 'fact'?
dude i didn't even try to prove something to you, i just let you post , and me and the rest are noticing that you are just hittin urself with your posts.
25% deflect severity nerf = suggestion.
doing pvp and see how overhelming the TR is performing is a F-A-C-T.
you are supporting your idea, but you didn't research well enough, thats why what you are defending its really irrelevant, you are just CLUELESS.
Ok, firstly, not a fact, a fact is basied on statistics and hard evidence. You provide neither. what you're saying is an 'opinion' and one with no real merit at that.
Secondly, you allready 'claimed' that you can beat every TR, so they can't be performing that well if you have no problem beatting them all.
Thirdly, unkillable paladins and unkillable clerics are what is dominating PvP right now. Followed by GFs. THEN, TR/GWFs are compeating for 4th place.
how is 4th best pvp class "Overwhelming'? Or are you trying to tell me that TRs are performing better than clerics, paladins and GFs? seriously?
um, no. in mod 3 Sent GWFs were the dominating class. Managing to have obserd dps while still going sent thanks to broken bleeds, and roar piercing through CC immunity and GFs were down in trash tier. That time has long since passed. Also Pretty sure PALADINS wern't the dominating class in mod 3, they didn't even exist. Theres some irony in some of the things your trying to say... a lot of irony.
I think you are talking about two different things.
1. Mediocre TR. He kills clueless PuGs and if you have no/ just some tanacity, you wont have a chance to hit him back. Not that much of a problem for geared players.
2. BIS TR. As far as I have had the 'pleasure' to meet them, it goes like this. Go MI/ sab, allmost perma. Get BIS gear, including WoE, LoL set, p. vorp. and MUCH power. Slot main and offhandfeats, that slow ppl. Get red WoE buff. CoS from stealth, to apply slow. Dodge to your enemy and throw a smoke bomb. If he did not dodge before you landed it, watch him die from piercing dmg while he tries to leave the smoke bomb 'running' like a snail on steroids.
I know, that this guys outgear me and that they might be (very) good players, but to lose 90-100k HP in seconds against an enemy you cant see/ attack is frustrating.
I might have got something wrong here. I play my TR as MI/Exe. He is an alt with decent gear (p.vorp/full burning/ epic artefact gear and legend. DC arti), who strolls around in PvP and PvE. Might be, that BIS PvP players say 'yea, TR is fine as it is'.
Can i use same logic here and state"turn down 20% unstoppable duration since they are hard to kill or cc during that stage, and it won't break the class"?
You do realize that this already happened? Before mod 4 unstoppable duration was 5-10s, after 4-8s. So yep, GWF was already toned down quite a bit in mod 4. While TR kept the insane deflect severity for way too long. If there were no changes to their dodge in mod 5 then they could keep that severity. But TRs can now dodge 4 times in a row straight and the dodge distance is simply outrageous. My GWF can't get away or can't reach a TR with sprint because their dodge goes way further. How does that sound to you, hm?
TR has enough survivability without their insane deflect severity already: stealth, dodges, dazes, high mobility. I say 75% (85% with a pot) deflect severity which also affects nearly all CC powers is too much. Especially now with the broken tenacity where everyone with a negation is DR capped with deflect further reducing damage received.
Such a surprise to see a nerf request thread on a TR. At least this time they tried to hide the fact of what it was but it is still pretty obvious.
I am pleased, though, that people fear the massive 21% deflect chance on my TR. Realize that I have a TR. I have no ITC, I have no working escape either. I have no temp hit points, no shield, no self healing capabilities and I rely mostly on stealth and dodge so I am not entirely sure why you want to nerf me.
Such a surprise to see a nerf request thread on a TR. At least this time they tried to hide the fact of what it was but it is still pretty obvious.
I am pleased, though, that people fear the massive 21% deflect chance on my TR. Realize that I have a TR. I have no ITC, I have no working escape either. I have no temp hit points, no shield, no self healing capabilities and I rely mostly on stealth and dodge so I am not entirely sure why you want to nerf me.
If you haven't maxed your dex and cha and continue wearing radiants in your defensive slots then the fault is all yours. Even my invoke slave TR has more deflect than you. You should be ashamed.
No I can get up to 27% with pots + coin + caprese. Perhaps there is a bug with my TR's deflect -- it would not surprise me with this game. Even that, though, is certainly unworthy enough of a concern for the amount of crying you all are doing -- and quite frankly it is that crying that you should be ashamed of.
nerfing deflect severity or itc will just break the entire class. pve is bad enough since mobs can 1-shot us even through deflect and it doesn't save me from piercing or reflect procs in pvp. if you are basing the nerf request on permas or a pot that increases deflect severity then just stop because thats comepletely unjustified.
sabs can just endlessly proc shadowy opportunity without a care in the world while executioners frequently kill people with their burst but none of them will care much about a nerf to deflect since they stay in stealth a lot.
scoundrels however are almost purely without a stealth bar and deflect is not gonna save us from being killed by reflect, piercing, prones, or cc spam. yeah, i can daze people and dodge around but i can't dps for HAMSTER due to how heavily i am invested in deflect. hell, gf's/pallies can just stand still and kill me purely through their reflect procs (moreso if they actively walk in front of my current target). hunter cc spam is also powerful enough to leave me unable to fight back and i am certainly not killing someone in the 5 seconds itc is active. gwfs.....they out-tank me so i don't enjoy fighting them and fights last too long now to rely on courage breaker to put the match in my favor.
also, due to the nerf to our daze feats....we actually can't daze for HAMSTER except from stealth and thats only helpful at the start of a fight but pointless since we can't kill people easily unless they literally stand still and let us flurry them to death (if concussive was unnerfed then we could at least get the time to approach but oh well). it's nice that wizards aren't such a threat anymore but they are still not going to just let me walk up to them to use my melee abilities.
warlocks are the only easy kill since i actually did kill 1 purely through reflect procs while i was throwing daggers at a wizard.
basically, i only kill people in pvp because someone either helped me or they just let me kill them. it's not about being a bad player but just a limitation of the class when you fight without the really overpowered abilities.
No I can get up to 27% with pots + coin + caprese. Perhaps there is a bug with my TR's deflect -- it would not surprise me with this game. Even that, though, is certainly unworthy enough of a concern for the amount of crying you all are doing -- and quite frankly it is that crying that you should be ashamed of.
Either a bug or your build has an average Dexterity / Charisma under 20, because if both were at least 20, you'd have 20% deflect while naked. I guess you also don't have the feats from the Scoundrel line.
I have a whisperknife scoundrel in storage myself, and I think TRs get a little too much hate based on the MI/Sab which really needs a rebalance. ITC does too much right now based on its uptime on a MI/Sab build, especially combined with negation and a base 75% deflect severity. By comparison, HR's Forest Meditation Daily is the only other power that gives 100% deflection, and the HR becomes a sitting duck unable to act while it is active.
That said, TRs do already get higher base deflect than any other class 1% per point of Dex/Cha versus 0.5% per point of Dex. A levelling of deflect severity to be equal among all classes would still provide them better protection potential than the other classes have, so I can't agree with the argument that it breaks the class.
Either a bug or your build has an average Dexterity / Charisma under 20, because if both were at least 20, you'd have 20% deflect while naked. I guess you also don't have the feats from the Scoundrel line.
I have a whisperknife scoundrel in storage myself, and I think TRs get a little too much hate based on the MI/Sab which really needs a rebalance. ITC does too much right now based on its uptime on a MI/Sab build, especially combined with negation and a base 75% deflect severity. By comparison, HR's Forest Meditation Daily is the only other power that gives 100% deflection, and the HR becomes a sitting duck unable to act while it is active.
That said, TRs do already get higher base deflect than any other class 1% per point of Dex/Cha versus 0.5% per point of Dex. A levelling of deflect severity to be equal among all classes would still provide them better protection potential than the other classes have, so I can't agree with the argument that it breaks the class.
It does not matter if it does not break the class. This can be said for any bonus/power for every single class, start whittling away in gradual amounts based on "it does not break the class". TR gets no innate resistance ignored, does this mean it should be reduced on other classes since the TR does not have it? This thread was started as a nerf thread by a GWF who stated within the thread that she has no problems dispatching any TR in the game and yet she is asking for a nerf for what purpose?
Additional comment, the reason for the 1% per point of dex being adjusted for the TR was that it was brought to the realization of the Devs that the primary stat of the TR was actually one of the worst stats for the TR to invest in and that it would never offer more damage than str or more value than cha. I had hoped it would have been handled different (such as dex becoming the primary damage attribute or even some resistance ignored being added but the result now is what came out of it).
It does not matter if it does not break the class. This can be said for any bonus/power for every single class, start whittling away in gradual amounts based on "it does not break the class". TR gets no innate resistance ignored, does this mean it should be reduced on other classes since the TR does not have it? This thread was started as a nerf thread by a GWF who stated within the thread that she has no problems dispatching any TR in the game and yet she is asking for a nerf for what purpose?
Additional comment, the reason for the 1% per point of dex being adjusted for the TR was that it was brought to the realization of the Devs that the primary stat of the TR was actually one of the worst stats for the TR to invest in and that it would never offer more damage than str or more value than cha. I had hoped it would have been handled different (such as dex becoming the primary damage attribute or even some resistance ignored being added but the result now is what came out of it).
I can't claim to know the intent of the original post, but there is a valid conversation going on in some of the responses regarding class balancing.
The RI benefit that some classes receive through base attributes has already been reduced by the current stat scaling (1% RI : 100 ArPen), and in PvP by an additive ArPen Resistance (which is effectively negating RI). Few players, if any, are building base attributes to stack RI, when it is more economically advantageous to use Attribute scores to build Crit & Power.
I don't disagree with you on the reasoning that Dexterity modifiers were changed in mod 5 for the TR, but the end result is what it is, and I can't reasonably argue that things are balanced as they currently stand. (I think changing ITC to a cc break / immune period only might be a better solution.)
All this is not to say that these are the only issues, or even my primary concern, in the game right now. CWs ignoring 66% of tenacity for CC is a serious issue, CW's shield, Negation increasing the divide between the haves and have nots, piercing damage not respecting tenacity or deflection, and the imbalance among class feat trees. Those are for another thread though.
Comments
Also you haven't said any 'facts' all you have said is "TR's should loose 25% deflect severity." Do I need to link you to an online dictionary so you can look up the definition of the word 'fact'?
Ok, firstly, not a fact, a fact is basied on statistics and hard evidence. You provide neither. what you're saying is an 'opinion' and one with no real merit at that.
Secondly, you allready 'claimed' that you can beat every TR, so they can't be performing that well if you have no problem beatting them all.
Thirdly, unkillable paladins and unkillable clerics are what is dominating PvP right now. Followed by GFs. THEN, TR/GWFs are compeating for 4th place.
how is 4th best pvp class "Overwhelming'? Or are you trying to tell me that TRs are performing better than clerics, paladins and GFs? seriously?
.Suicide Squad.
1. Mediocre TR. He kills clueless PuGs and if you have no/ just some tanacity, you wont have a chance to hit him back. Not that much of a problem for geared players.
2. BIS TR. As far as I have had the 'pleasure' to meet them, it goes like this. Go MI/ sab, allmost perma. Get BIS gear, including WoE, LoL set, p. vorp. and MUCH power. Slot main and offhandfeats, that slow ppl. Get red WoE buff. CoS from stealth, to apply slow. Dodge to your enemy and throw a smoke bomb. If he did not dodge before you landed it, watch him die from piercing dmg while he tries to leave the smoke bomb 'running' like a snail on steroids.
I know, that this guys outgear me and that they might be (very) good players, but to lose 90-100k HP in seconds against an enemy you cant see/ attack is frustrating.
I might have got something wrong here. I play my TR as MI/Exe. He is an alt with decent gear (p.vorp/full burning/ epic artefact gear and legend. DC arti), who strolls around in PvP and PvE. Might be, that BIS PvP players say 'yea, TR is fine as it is'.
You do realize that this already happened? Before mod 4 unstoppable duration was 5-10s, after 4-8s. So yep, GWF was already toned down quite a bit in mod 4. While TR kept the insane deflect severity for way too long. If there were no changes to their dodge in mod 5 then they could keep that severity. But TRs can now dodge 4 times in a row straight and the dodge distance is simply outrageous. My GWF can't get away or can't reach a TR with sprint because their dodge goes way further. How does that sound to you, hm?
TR has enough survivability without their insane deflect severity already: stealth, dodges, dazes, high mobility. I say 75% (85% with a pot) deflect severity which also affects nearly all CC powers is too much. Especially now with the broken tenacity where everyone with a negation is DR capped with deflect further reducing damage received.
I am pleased, though, that people fear the massive 21% deflect chance on my TR. Realize that I have a TR. I have no ITC, I have no working escape either. I have no temp hit points, no shield, no self healing capabilities and I rely mostly on stealth and dodge so I am not entirely sure why you want to nerf me.
If you haven't maxed your dex and cha and continue wearing radiants in your defensive slots then the fault is all yours. Even my invoke slave TR has more deflect than you. You should be ashamed.
sabs can just endlessly proc shadowy opportunity without a care in the world while executioners frequently kill people with their burst but none of them will care much about a nerf to deflect since they stay in stealth a lot.
scoundrels however are almost purely without a stealth bar and deflect is not gonna save us from being killed by reflect, piercing, prones, or cc spam. yeah, i can daze people and dodge around but i can't dps for HAMSTER due to how heavily i am invested in deflect. hell, gf's/pallies can just stand still and kill me purely through their reflect procs (moreso if they actively walk in front of my current target). hunter cc spam is also powerful enough to leave me unable to fight back and i am certainly not killing someone in the 5 seconds itc is active. gwfs.....they out-tank me so i don't enjoy fighting them and fights last too long now to rely on courage breaker to put the match in my favor.
also, due to the nerf to our daze feats....we actually can't daze for HAMSTER except from stealth and thats only helpful at the start of a fight but pointless since we can't kill people easily unless they literally stand still and let us flurry them to death (if concussive was unnerfed then we could at least get the time to approach but oh well). it's nice that wizards aren't such a threat anymore but they are still not going to just let me walk up to them to use my melee abilities.
warlocks are the only easy kill since i actually did kill 1 purely through reflect procs while i was throwing daggers at a wizard.
basically, i only kill people in pvp because someone either helped me or they just let me kill them. it's not about being a bad player but just a limitation of the class when you fight without the really overpowered abilities.
Either a bug or your build has an average Dexterity / Charisma under 20, because if both were at least 20, you'd have 20% deflect while naked. I guess you also don't have the feats from the Scoundrel line.
I have a whisperknife scoundrel in storage myself, and I think TRs get a little too much hate based on the MI/Sab which really needs a rebalance. ITC does too much right now based on its uptime on a MI/Sab build, especially combined with negation and a base 75% deflect severity. By comparison, HR's Forest Meditation Daily is the only other power that gives 100% deflection, and the HR becomes a sitting duck unable to act while it is active.
That said, TRs do already get higher base deflect than any other class 1% per point of Dex/Cha versus 0.5% per point of Dex. A levelling of deflect severity to be equal among all classes would still provide them better protection potential than the other classes have, so I can't agree with the argument that it breaks the class.
It does not matter if it does not break the class. This can be said for any bonus/power for every single class, start whittling away in gradual amounts based on "it does not break the class". TR gets no innate resistance ignored, does this mean it should be reduced on other classes since the TR does not have it? This thread was started as a nerf thread by a GWF who stated within the thread that she has no problems dispatching any TR in the game and yet she is asking for a nerf for what purpose?
Additional comment, the reason for the 1% per point of dex being adjusted for the TR was that it was brought to the realization of the Devs that the primary stat of the TR was actually one of the worst stats for the TR to invest in and that it would never offer more damage than str or more value than cha. I had hoped it would have been handled different (such as dex becoming the primary damage attribute or even some resistance ignored being added but the result now is what came out of it).
I can't claim to know the intent of the original post, but there is a valid conversation going on in some of the responses regarding class balancing.
The RI benefit that some classes receive through base attributes has already been reduced by the current stat scaling (1% RI : 100 ArPen), and in PvP by an additive ArPen Resistance (which is effectively negating RI). Few players, if any, are building base attributes to stack RI, when it is more economically advantageous to use Attribute scores to build Crit & Power.
I don't disagree with you on the reasoning that Dexterity modifiers were changed in mod 5 for the TR, but the end result is what it is, and I can't reasonably argue that things are balanced as they currently stand. (I think changing ITC to a cc break / immune period only might be a better solution.)
All this is not to say that these are the only issues, or even my primary concern, in the game right now. CWs ignoring 66% of tenacity for CC is a serious issue, CW's shield, Negation increasing the divide between the haves and have nots, piercing damage not respecting tenacity or deflection, and the imbalance among class feat trees. Those are for another thread though.