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4/6/15 Patch Notes: DC changes (ATTENTION)
ichimaruginx
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 230 Arc User
Devoted Cleric
Astral Seal: This power now heals for 5 times as much but cannot be triggered more than once every 4 seconds.
- Apparently this is a counter measure to the lag caused by ASeal.
- Alternative route: Making it so that ASeal can heal 5 players ONLY (just like KV can protect 5 person for GF). This will NOT affect dungeon play, unlike the change that the new patch is going to implement.
- WHY?: Because the benefit of ASeal is it's CONSTANT heals. With the new changes 4sec CD, a teammate can only benefit from it TWICE times per ASeal (that is NOT considering IF it's GLOBAL CD or that OVERHEAL trigger it, if it is then it's worse). 5x amount of heals won't amend the loss of constant heals, and new changes will AFFECT dungeon play NEGATIVELY.
Cleanse: This feat has been reworked to removed Damage over Time effects from allies, rather than all possible debuffs.
- This change is to counter the BUG which removes OP's temp HP.
- Alternative route: Change the coding in OP so that temp HP won't get remove by external powers.
- WHY?: DC's have really weak feats compared to other classes already. Cleanse is one of the more useful ones. DC class also has no form of CC immunity/break, this feat is the ONLY way for DC to break CC on teammates/themselves.
PLEASE... RECONSIDER!
Astral Seal: This power now heals for 5 times as much but cannot be triggered more than once every 4 seconds.
- Apparently this is a counter measure to the lag caused by ASeal.
- Alternative route: Making it so that ASeal can heal 5 players ONLY (just like KV can protect 5 person for GF). This will NOT affect dungeon play, unlike the change that the new patch is going to implement.
- WHY?: Because the benefit of ASeal is it's CONSTANT heals. With the new changes 4sec CD, a teammate can only benefit from it TWICE times per ASeal (that is NOT considering IF it's GLOBAL CD or that OVERHEAL trigger it, if it is then it's worse). 5x amount of heals won't amend the loss of constant heals, and new changes will AFFECT dungeon play NEGATIVELY.
Cleanse: This feat has been reworked to removed Damage over Time effects from allies, rather than all possible debuffs.
- This change is to counter the BUG which removes OP's temp HP.
- Alternative route: Change the coding in OP so that temp HP won't get remove by external powers.
- WHY?: DC's have really weak feats compared to other classes already. Cleanse is one of the more useful ones. DC class also has no form of CC immunity/break, this feat is the ONLY way for DC to break CC on teammates/themselves.
PLEASE... RECONSIDER!
Post edited by ichimaruginx on
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Comments
Yeah... if you want to see more on our Devoted Cleric crazy powerful feat list that we get to choose from, you can see my post in The Temple.
PS: DEEPER DISSECTION of the issue can be seen on lilhamlet's thread: http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?950211-Clerics-once-again-losing-benefits-without-getting-fixes (I'm just a humbler summarizer ^^)
Also..one joy i have is looking at guildies face when they wanna roll a DC and asked me for feats...
Guildie: *stares and rub their eyes* ARE YOU SERIOUS THOSE ARE FEATS???!!
Me: *nods* Yup exactly, really nice ones too!
Join Now! - Infernal Paragons , The Infernal Alliance
if the heal was triggered while HP is full and all the sudden you take a damage within the 4s cd is kinda frightening. This also indirectly reduce members DPS output in some situation by how much i do not know with even more blocking and dodging than the current. I'd rather have it limit the number of player it can heals like you said than this coming crazy change.
You made a already WORSE in game herioc feat tree worse ?
You made our bread and butter mini heal WORSE?
YOU still didnt EVEN pass through the GARBAGE you released on the class in mod 6.. with at least 85% of the entire work making the CLASS function WORSE if you picked them..
come on now, who is the person working on the DC class? This is really shoddy , lazy work.
I doubt that's the case considering it's an at-will power. The way I read the patch notes it's just the healing effect that has a 4s wait, not the damage/application of seal.
I don't see the above information in this one.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?950271-Patch-Notes-NW-45-20150515a-3&p=11169791&viewfull=1#post11169791
^ This!!!
This has happened before. So what we have is nerf, nerf, nerf, the dc, then wait every 5 mods to finally do something decent with DCs, then nerf, nerf, nerf, the DC. Rinse and repeat.
As for devs hating DCs, i cant remember where but it was someone posted that the devs least favorite class to work on was the DC, of course it was taken down. Now it could have been the past devs who were let go, but I'm starting to think they all hate DCs.
I started the game with a DC, yeah all that a MMORPG D&D based need is a Cleric, wich can heal, fear (control), deal (mitagation), now DC can't do any of this things, while the strongest don't need and the weak (read 1hitKO)can't benefit of.
I can understand why DC is not the fav, but now will be best delete it than fix it,
so delete GF TR and SW and we will have GWF (going between GF SW) OP, CW, HR and TR will be a DEVs-only broke god class
i'm hurry, maybe will edit
Yup they basically give ASeal's healing a 4sec ICD.
It's not about whether you can hit 5+ times in 4 sec because on dummy test (before patch), overheal triggers ASeal. So ASeal will proc when someone hit target REGARDLESS of whether the person's HP is full or not. Then, they will NOT be healed from it in the next 4 sec. So, with the new changes I expect DoTs on AS target to get only 1 heal not the constant ticks of heals.
Join Now! - Infernal Paragons , The Infernal Alliance
I don't follow this approach when I've to heal and protect, so AS is not on top in my playing style. I'm not saying that it's not important but AS always comes at the end and not at the beginning of the battle.
And this happens because of the mechanic of the virtuous and the high Action Point recovery of my build (+70% - I could have even more, but I've chosen a more balanced approach).
Usually I've always my AP full before attacking a group of mobs. I start with AA on the team and this is great when you have strong players because there's enough time for them to kill at least the weaker mobs with no damage at all. GF/OP have a great benefit from AA because they don't take the heaviest damages that usually comes at the beginning of the battle.
Then I go BoH and/or HW: the regenerative mechanic of the virtuous is strong enough to heal costantly the team, even up to 40/50K for each regenerative effect and even more important I reacharge my AP quickly.
At the end of this rotation and with the right group, I often have my AP full again: so another AA. In the meanwhile, I've to recharge the divine power and finally BoB and/or AS come (more BoB than AS, because I prefer to buff +8% defense and +15% of my 20K power to the team: I've enough HoT to avoid AS very often). And that's not all: thanks to the 10K recovery, I've the encounter ready in few seconds and most of the time I've at least one of them available.
All the above, just to explain that there are alternatives where AS is just something you can use when you don't have anything else ready. I'm not saying that I've the best build and I understand that AS can be very important for a righteous or other builds/styles.
I don't use cleanse at all (0/3): so this change for me is irrelevant. I can tell you that you can do a great job even without cleanse
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
No offense mate but b/c your build is made so you can and do ignore AS makes this nerf (b/c it is) acceptable? So should I also rebuild my DC?
It is a nerf. It smells like a (stinky) workaround to "fix" known bug(s). It is a lame - at least a non-professional - solution.
Uff, I spoke
its the same mentality "fixing" broken PVP matchmaking, just make your opponents invisble to you.... so you never know their Gearscore
"YOUR" build relies on you being geared out as you keep patting yourself on the back with your high power, recovery, ect, ect,.... this nerf hurts lesser geared and new players tremendously and helps make healing pallies more relevant.
DC: Punishing Light, 3 hits/sec
SW: Dreadtheft 3 hits/sec
HR: Clear the ground, rapid shot 2-3 hits/sec
TR: Duelist flurry ~12 hits in 3 sec
The list is not limited to these, but this should give an indication on how much Astral Seal were hit previous to this patch. 5 times is minimal compared to what it was doing before.
Do I have feel guilty for this? if you think that I just rely on high power and high recovery....well it's your opinion, but you're wrong.
New players may want to follow my approach or something similar and even with lower gear and stats, i can tell that it works. With Mod 6, this game was started from scratch: I found myself with 40K hp and a blue gear set doing Valindra. Today I've the elven set, doing dungeons everyday.
My cleric took many months, many respecs, many tests and a lot of effort before getting to the best build for me. I played the pre-mod 5 cleric for many months with my barely 15K build where the best thing I had was an Astral Shield with some regenerative heals and the Astral Seal gave 400 hp at the best. I'm still alive and growing.
The cleric requires a big effort, always thinking on the long term plan. If a player is not ready to do it, it's better for him to leave this class. Squeeze you brain, find a guild/friends ready to help you, reinvent your cleric, make a lot of test on the preview server and..hold on.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
I understand each has different playstyle and build. But it's about another NEGATIVE change to DC, in fact to one of the more useful DC at-will. This is just really disappointing. Let's forget about playstyles and build for a moment, it all comes down to, ASeal does not deserve this "tone down". As I've stated, there are alternative ways which doesn't affect gameplay to combat the lag. I do hope the devs reconsider this.
As usual the less geared players will ofc be affected the most. They lack the resources to test and tweak. I, myself runs a crit build and i dare not say it's cheap. On my alt DC I ran a different build because I do not have the resources. Despite all the differences, I'm sure all DCs agree to this: Just stop trimming our leaves off and cutting our branches, it's the last thing this class need.
Join Now! - Infernal Paragons , The Infernal Alliance
P.S since DC give you to much trouble , why dont just remove DC on class option. that will solve a lot of you troubles.
Before saying that it's negative, I'm going to test the new AS in the next few minutes (server crashed right now). Reading other posts, it seems that there is no common opinion about it.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF
Not much more to trim. Right now, we're trunks with about 3 branches, each with about 4 leaves.... LOL
Let's see.
RIP AS was a little but steady (if someone hit the target was healed) healing skill. New AS is RNG based even if the triggered effect is increased. In continues fight like against TDummy the overall effect will be the same except for classes w/ fast hitting power(s).
AS has a chance to trigger Cleanse - low chance RNG based feat. RIP AS improved this chance. New AS indirectly lowers this chance (do everyone see the cross nerf?^^).
AS triggers BG - BTW I cant remember if it was always an RNG "has a chance" procing boon or was changed in mod6? Anyway, RIP AS had the chance to proc BG quite often. Must have been a game breaking overpowered skill so had to be nerfed by a min of 75%. If there was a TR/SW/GWF/HR the nerf is even more. Not sure about CW (Ray of frost?) and OBP (Burning Light?).
Was AS(eal) so overpowered it had to be nerfed?
As per Cleanse. The DoT damage in PVE is
a. lethal and re-applies right after Cleanse (green tiamat head aoe - no active gem leads to death anyway)
b. hard hitting and re-applies right after Cleanse (molten gold in LoL - waaay better to be healed)
c. low hitting and who cares if Cleansed or not
On the other hand there are some negative effects can be lethal and Cleanse - if proced, dont forget still RNG - could be life saver
a. little dragon poison effect (quite lethal defense debuff) - i hope it is still Cleanse-able since it is also a DoT but we will see
b. freezing - LoL gladiators, not sure if tia white head aoe was Cleanse-able
c. tia black head debuff - it was Cleanse-able i am 99% sure
d. Root effects - LoL rangers, ToS webs. not the root is lethal but the lack of dodge and move (beeing flanked is a nightmare for GF)
Was Cleanse so overpowerd w/ the max 30% chance and 20 sec ICD it had to be nerfed?
On the other hand
- RIP AS:
a. Caused lag by healing 39 other ppl+who knows how many comps during an overpopulated instance HE - this is technically proven by the nerf since there is no other good reason to make this change. RIP AS has NEVER caused lag in a 5 man insta and I had never had issue during HE when there were max 30 ppl.
b. Caused lag by procing BG by 39ppl+who knows how many comps during an overpopulated instance HE - this is technically proven by the nerf since there is no other good reason to make this change. RIP AS proced BG has NEVER caused lag in a 5 man insta and I had never had issue during HE when there were max 30 ppl.
- RIP Cleanse:
a. Removed temp HP from OBP
b. Removed Vow from mob - as far as i remember, might be fixed so far
- RIP AS + RIP Cleanse:
could cause all of the aboves at the same time.
Please prove me wrong!^^
Uff, I spoke:)
Since it's relevant on the issue of cleanse I'll repost this here.
Cleansing Touch: You heal target ally and remove any CC effects from them. You may activate this power while controlled. If you have an enemy targeted while casting this power you instead heal and cleanse all allies in melee range.
I cannot say anything about cleanse because I don't use it after this change at least I don't have to respec
Concerning AS, I've another point of view: it's very personal and it applies to Virtuous only. I'm not saying that you're wrong, just showing an alternative. This is why I start with BoH/HW and not with AS, taking advantage of the HoT. I can forget healing for the next 12 seconds, enough to kill some mobs. No need to target the mobs, just focus on the team mates. With gift of haste it also increase the action points with a chance to trigger dailies. BG is very effective with the HoT features.
Oltreverso guild leader
Maga Othelma - DC | Svalvolo - SW | Dente Avvelenato- GWF