- ONLY 25% of the overheal get stored.
- It's drop below 45% HP not below FULL HP. You will receive 5x0.25=1.25x heal. At the point of below 45% the heal is insignificant and not useful.
- It's not for players when they take MASSIVE amount of dmg, it's to supply a CONSTANT heal to counter the tiny chips of HP lost.
- It is a NERF.
Please get to know what ASeal does in party before you comment.
Please understand something before criticizing it.
"Your expected wait is 2 seconds after you drop below full health, at which point you will receive a 5x heal."
This sentence is obviously referring to the new Astral Seal, not Gift of Faith. It's the amount of time you have to wait to get your next Astral Seal proc when it actually matters: after you're no longer at full health.
judging by the past, will get feats fix in 2018.
until then its all nerf after nerf
so far the only good feats we have are 'gift of fates', 'gift of the gods' and 'bountiful fortune'
there are some T5 feats that are ok, but for the rest its hard to chose the less worse
and so many feats that give you extra healing / damage if you are below 30%... the forgot we heal ourself so stay bellow 30% its not easy (consider and average spider doo 300K damage its either you die or not)
0
ichimaruginxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 230Arc User
Please understand something before criticizing it.
"Your expected wait is 2 seconds after you drop below full health, at which point you will receive a 5x heal."
This sentence is obviously referring to the new Astral Seal, not Gift of Faith. It's the amount of time you have to wait to get your next Astral Seal proc when it actually matters: after you're no longer at full health.
- The amount of time is 4sec. NOT 2 sec. It's obviously NOT referring to the ASeal (new).
- FYI ASeal procs when you hit it, no matter you are at full or non full HP
Please understand something before criticizing it. INDEED.
judging by the past, will get feats fix in 2018.
until then its all nerf after nerf
so far the only good feats we have are 'gift of haste', 'gift of the gods' and 'bountiful fortune'
there are some T5 feats that are ok, but for the rest its hard to chose the less worse
and so many feats that give you extra healing / damage if you are below 30%... they forgot we heal ourself so stay bellow 30% its not easy (consider an average spider doo 300K damage its either you die or not)
- The amount of time is 4sec. NOT 2 sec. It's obviously NOT referring to the ASeal (new).
- FYI ASeal procs when you hit it, no matter you are at full or non full HP
Please understand something before criticizing it. INDEED.
Stop. You're hurting yourself again.
It is only the full four seconds if you received the heal instantaneously before you took damage. In reality, the damage is at a random point during the cooldown, and the distribution is likely uniform. That means the EXPECTED VALUE of the amount of time you have to wait between taking damage and receiving the next proc is half the cooldown interval, which is 2 seconds.
Burning Guidance scales to some extent with damage done. The difference is likely small. The amount of damage was already inconsequentially small.
Foresight lasts 10 seconds, far less than the 4 second cooldown.
It is a buff.
Whether it is a buff or a nerf, however, the differences are so incredibly small that it really doesn't matter at all.
When talking about scaling with damage done I'd like to point out A.Seal does so as well. All hits are not created equal and the likelihood of using up a proc with a dot is not small. Also successive heals from it have diminishing returns, 50% for the second and 36% for the third hit. When talking about expected value and overhealing this becomes quite pertinent. With the old fashion it gave a steady hardly noticeable stream of heals. With the new one I'm expecting to see procs anywhere from around a hundred to over 10k distributed quite at random.
When talking about scaling with damage done I'd like to point out A.Seal does so as well. All hits are not created equal and the likelihood of using up a proc with a dot is not small. Also successive heals from it have diminishing returns, 50% for the second and 36% for the third hit. When talking about expected value and overhealing this becomes quite pertinent. With the old fashion it gave a steady hardly noticeable stream of heals. With the new one I'm expecting to see procs anywhere from around a hundred to over 10k distributed quite at random.
This is a valid concern. I just assumed this would be normalized by, say, basing it off from weapon damage. I don't know why; they can't even get tooltips right.
0
ichimaruginxMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 230Arc User
edited June 2015
Okay i see where you are going with this now. Thanks for the explanation. I rephrase myself on my idiocity, what i am trying to get across is with ASeal on 4sec ICD, you will most likely not be receiving the heal you needed like before even tho the amount of heal is increased. Constant heal whenever you attack or random ICD which no one is paying attention to? I choose the former. I love the BotS and ASeal combination, and it will be sorely missed.
Anyone has Data on how the ASeal heal is calculated? Some testing might give more insight. (and hopefully they didn't break anything on recoding ASeal) For now i expect the 5x (amount that we get atm) = NEW ASeal , which by itself is not significant.
I like Clerics with benefits.But I like Friends with benefits more:rolleyes:. I do have to be honest when this Mod.6 came out and a very large number of the player base said that the trash mobs are to hard I really didn't see any nerfs coming to any class. Does this mean they will also be nerfing the trash mobs at some point as well?
0
mrvincent1959Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 740Arc User
edited June 2015
They made Geas useless also. I had 4 points in it. I am on a long break from the game. All these nerfs plus the Dragon Hoard Enchant nerfs, lack of dungeons etc, had pretty much ripped my soul out regarding this game. I dont even log in anymore for professions.
Astral Seal's healing is based on the damage done by power itself, so it remains to be seen if this change is actually a buff/nerf for Righteous. Higher damage A.Seal + main hand/other healing bonuses + 5x as much healing actually looks good in paper, especially combined with good crit rate/severity all Righteous DCs should have. The downside is that you need to anticipate when your allies are going to take damage now instead of precasting it (duh). Against single targets, overall healing done is also potentially reduced (since you're all just standing there whacking the same thing over and over for the full duration of A.Seal).
That puts Righteous in the "hmm..." and Faithful in the "yay!" category. That leaves Virtuous.
The Cleanse change is a rework. Cleanse was already highly unreliable in PvE and already had an ICD. PvP-wise any change that doesn't directly affect how the mere presence of an enemy DC meant that your enemies are suddenly close to unkillable is just meh. In fact, being able to cleanse high damage DoTs might actually be a good thing for Righteous and Faithful. And being able to slap debuffs on one of the many targets being protected by a DC and making those debuffs stick can actually be a good thing for the game in general. Or have you people never actually fought a good Faithful/Virt DC yourselves?
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
Astral Seal's healing is based on the damage done by power itself, so it remains to be seen if this change is actually a buff/nerf for Righteous. Higher damage A.Seal + main hand/other healing bonuses + 5x as much healing actually looks good in paper, especially combined with good crit rate/severity all Righteous DCs should have. The downside is that you need to anticipate when your allies are going to take damage now instead of precasting it (duh). Against single targets, overall healing done is also potentially reduced (since you're all just standing there whacking the same thing over and over for the full duration of A.Seal).
That puts Righteous in the "hmm..." and Faithful in the "yay!" category. That leaves Virtuous.
The Cleanse change is a rework. Cleanse was already highly unreliable in PvE and already had an ICD. PvP-wise any change that doesn't directly affect how the mere presence of an enemy DC meant that your enemies are suddenly close to unkillable is just meh. In fact, being able to cleanse high damage DoTs might actually be a good thing for Righteous and Faithful. And being able to slap debuffs on one of the many targets being protected by a DC and making those debuffs stick can actually be a good thing for the game in general. Or have you people never actually fought a good Faithful/Virt DC yourselves?
The ICD on cleanse was short though, at 20 sec. In PvE, it was reliable enough since CC from mobs/bosses wasn't too frequent in their attack cycles. (When they changed divinity generation, I maxed it out at 30% which is very reliable based on my healing/attack cycle).
For PvP, it makes a huge difference. Light of Divinity in mod 6 ensured we had a heal activating every 3 seconds, apart from the actual healing we'd do (my at wills are both tags, Astral Seal & Brand of the Sun). What it did was to ensure that chill stacks or roots were cleared in time to reposition. My matches yesterday instead were all like mod 4, in which if a CW looked at me, I was frozen. As a righteous DC, I have no free heal (gift of faith) to keep me alive when perma controlled by a class that still ignores tenacity.
The reason for the rework had nothing to do with class balancing. Gentlemancrush already confirmed that it was an easier fix to change cleanse than to reprogram all the debuffs/buffs to properly interact with it. (It was clearing paladin temp hp.) Frankly, DoT is easy to counter... it's by healing.
20 seconds (PvP time) is actually "short" to you?
And you're actually saying all this as a Righteous DC, ie, the "I can kill you but I'm also somewhat squishy" DC?
You there. New to the game? Feeling overwhelmed? Maybe you think getting to end-game is impossible for a casual player like yourself, or maybe you just need to be around a community that helps each other stay sane and competitive with the latest news, current trends, random chitchat and most of all LEGIT (that is, we try to keep things fair) gameplay. If you don't mind being around quirky people and the rare occasional drama (one of our prominent TR members is apparently a mafia godfather) join nw_legit_community at http://www.nwlegitcommunity.shivtr.com/forum_threads/2330542.
20 seconds (PvP time) is actually "short" to you?
And you're actually saying all this as a Righteous DC, ie, the "I can kill you but I'm also somewhat squishy" DC?
It is reasonably short because the cleanse gives me time to actually escape the CW LoS and counter. Now there is no counter time, shortly after chill stacks show, I'm frozen.
HRs aren't as annoying as they first seem, as you can usually shut them down through stuns with Divine Break the Spirit, but that cleanse also helped with the undodgeable roots (they really need to fix rooting from both HRs and Icy Rays).
I wouldn't call my build particularly squishy either with just short of 90k hp, about 4300 defense, running foresight (with benefit of foresight) and with Astral Shield always on the bar. The only class I feel squishy against are TRs, and well.... isn't everyone?
0
instynctiveMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,885Arc User
edited June 2015
I finally got the chance to play my DC... and honestly, I haven't noticed any difference at all with my AS.
Comments
Please understand something before criticizing it.
"Your expected wait is 2 seconds after you drop below full health, at which point you will receive a 5x heal."
This sentence is obviously referring to the new Astral Seal, not Gift of Faith. It's the amount of time you have to wait to get your next Astral Seal proc when it actually matters: after you're no longer at full health.
until then its all nerf after nerf
so far the only good feats we have are 'gift of fates', 'gift of the gods' and 'bountiful fortune'
there are some T5 feats that are ok, but for the rest its hard to chose the less worse
healing action
domain synergy
holy resolve
battlewise
initiate of faith
cleanse
Templar domain
and so many feats that give you extra healing / damage if you are below 30%... the forgot we heal ourself so stay bellow 30% its not easy (consider and average spider doo 300K damage its either you die or not)
- The amount of time is 4sec. NOT 2 sec. It's obviously NOT referring to the ASeal (new).
- FYI ASeal procs when you hit it, no matter you are at full or non full HP
Please understand something before criticizing it. INDEED.
Join Now! - Infernal Paragons , The Infernal Alliance
until then its all nerf after nerf
so far the only good feats we have are 'gift of haste', 'gift of the gods' and 'bountiful fortune'
there are some T5 feats that are ok, but for the rest its hard to chose the less worse
healing action
domain synergy
holy resolve
battlewise
initiate of faith
cleanse
Templar domain
and so many feats that give you extra healing / damage if you are below 30%... they forgot we heal ourself so stay bellow 30% its not easy (consider an average spider doo 300K damage its either you die or not)
Stop. You're hurting yourself again.
It is only the full four seconds if you received the heal instantaneously before you took damage. In reality, the damage is at a random point during the cooldown, and the distribution is likely uniform. That means the EXPECTED VALUE of the amount of time you have to wait between taking damage and receiving the next proc is half the cooldown interval, which is 2 seconds.
When talking about scaling with damage done I'd like to point out A.Seal does so as well. All hits are not created equal and the likelihood of using up a proc with a dot is not small. Also successive heals from it have diminishing returns, 50% for the second and 36% for the third hit. When talking about expected value and overhealing this becomes quite pertinent. With the old fashion it gave a steady hardly noticeable stream of heals. With the new one I'm expecting to see procs anywhere from around a hundred to over 10k distributed quite at random.
This is a valid concern. I just assumed this would be normalized by, say, basing it off from weapon damage. I don't know why; they can't even get tooltips right.
Anyone has Data on how the ASeal heal is calculated? Some testing might give more insight. (and hopefully they didn't break anything on recoding ASeal) For now i expect the 5x (amount that we get atm) = NEW ASeal , which by itself is not significant.
Join Now! - Infernal Paragons , The Infernal Alliance
All the other DC builds can now join me in my misery.
Faithfully,
Yours
That puts Righteous in the "hmm..." and Faithful in the "yay!" category. That leaves Virtuous.
The Cleanse change is a rework. Cleanse was already highly unreliable in PvE and already had an ICD. PvP-wise any change that doesn't directly affect how the mere presence of an enemy DC meant that your enemies are suddenly close to unkillable is just meh. In fact, being able to cleanse high damage DoTs might actually be a good thing for Righteous and Faithful. And being able to slap debuffs on one of the many targets being protected by a DC and making those debuffs stick can actually be a good thing for the game in general. Or have you people never actually fought a good Faithful/Virt DC yourselves?
The ICD on cleanse was short though, at 20 sec. In PvE, it was reliable enough since CC from mobs/bosses wasn't too frequent in their attack cycles. (When they changed divinity generation, I maxed it out at 30% which is very reliable based on my healing/attack cycle).
For PvP, it makes a huge difference. Light of Divinity in mod 6 ensured we had a heal activating every 3 seconds, apart from the actual healing we'd do (my at wills are both tags, Astral Seal & Brand of the Sun). What it did was to ensure that chill stacks or roots were cleared in time to reposition. My matches yesterday instead were all like mod 4, in which if a CW looked at me, I was frozen. As a righteous DC, I have no free heal (gift of faith) to keep me alive when perma controlled by a class that still ignores tenacity.
The reason for the rework had nothing to do with class balancing. Gentlemancrush already confirmed that it was an easier fix to change cleanse than to reprogram all the debuffs/buffs to properly interact with it. (It was clearing paladin temp hp.) Frankly, DoT is easy to counter... it's by healing.
And you're actually saying all this as a Righteous DC, ie, the "I can kill you but I'm also somewhat squishy" DC?
It is reasonably short because the cleanse gives me time to actually escape the CW LoS and counter. Now there is no counter time, shortly after chill stacks show, I'm frozen.
HRs aren't as annoying as they first seem, as you can usually shut them down through stuns with Divine Break the Spirit, but that cleanse also helped with the undodgeable roots (they really need to fix rooting from both HRs and Icy Rays).
I wouldn't call my build particularly squishy either with just short of 90k hp, about 4300 defense, running foresight (with benefit of foresight) and with Astral Shield always on the bar. The only class I feel squishy against are TRs, and well.... isn't everyone?
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79