I get what you're saying, and I completely agree that they are a better experience when played with others.. the social aspect, and the 'MMO' part, I completely get it, and agree.
What I can't agree with is where you say "getting upset at the Devs because vote to kick is in the game in lieu of taking steps to make sure you aren’t a victim of it any longer is kind of crazy".
The steps you speak of are to only play with friends/guildmates (they are the only steps that would work.. right?)... in which case, they should just remove PUG groups altogether using that logic? The fact that there ARE PUG groups, and that when using that system you get booted continuously, means that that system is broken/not working as intended. You can't blame the player for not 'taking steps to avoid it', it's the devs duty to spot that the system is broken and fix it. Therein lies the problem. IF we as players are expected to take steps to avoid it, then they may just aswell remove the option to run with randoms.
You're a moron. You're flawed logic is to remove a choice because sometimes people make the wrong choice? Right now people can choose to be intelligent and run with friends or guild-mates or choose to PUG and take their chances. You're arguing that because every PUG isn't a perfect group of delightful benefactors that they might as well just remove that choice? Moron.
PUGs have always been a train-wreck in every MMORPG I've ever played, and trust me it's a long list. Thank heavens for Vote-to-Kick since when my friends aren't online and I choose to PUG, I can at least remove the moron who's always standing in the red and dying making it impossible for us to proceed. Thank heavens for the choice to queue with randoms because that's HOW I've met all my Neverwinter friends that I now queue with to avoid kicks. Thank heavens I have enough common sense and MMORPG experience to not be complaining about these trivial aspects of an awesome game.
You're a moron. You're flawed logic is to remove a choice because sometimes people make the wrong choice? Right now people can choose to be intelligent and run with friends or guild-mates or choose to PUG and take their chances. You're arguing that because every PUG isn't a perfect group of delightful benefactors that they might as well just remove that choice? Moron.
PUGs have always been a train-wreck in every MMORPG I've ever played, and trust me it's a long list. Thank heavens for Vote-to-Kick since when my friends aren't online and I choose to PUG, I can at least remove the moron who's always standing in the red and dying making it impossible for us to proceed. Thank heavens for the choice to queue with randoms because that's HOW I've met all my Neverwinter friends that I now queue with to avoid kicks. Thank heavens I have enough common sense and MMORPG experience to not be complaining about these trivial aspects of an awesome game.
I'm a moron?, yet you're on a forum trying to insult me? Get a grip kid.
The PUG system is broken/not working as intended, it's a simple as that.. if you can't grasp that, then that simply speaks volumes about your mental capacity.
Also, re-read what I said, and try and understand what it means 'kid'. I don't say I want the PUG system removed, neither do I advise that they should do so... I'll explain it for you nice and simply (imagine I'm saying this very slowly for you):
IF the system doesn't work and they have no intention of fixing it, then why is it here? THEY MAY ASWELL remove it.
Get it? It needs fixing, or it's pointless having it. There's nothing at all flawed with that logic.
My argument isn't that "not every PUG isn't a perfect group of delightful benefactors", it's that MOST OF THEM are awful... the majority. Get it?? That means it's a broken system... get it???
I'm a moron?, yet you're on a forum trying to insult me? Get a grip kid.
The PUG system is broken/not working as intended, it's a simple as that.. if you can't grasp that, then that simply speaks volumes about your mental capacity.
Also, re-read what I said, and try and understand what it means 'kid'. I don't say I want the PUG system removed, neither do I advise that they should do so... I'll explain it for you nice and simply (imagine I'm saying this very slowly for you):
IF the system doesn't work and they have no intention of fixing it, then why is it here? THEY MAY ASWELL remove it.
Get it? It needs fixing, or it's pointless having it. There's nothing at all flawed with that logic.
My argument isn't that "not every PUG isn't a perfect group of delightful benefactors", it's that MOST OF THEM are awful... the majority. Get it?? That means it's a broken system... get it???
Try again, 'moron'
lol
I don't even need to respond to this you do an excellent job proving my moron theory without any help. What a childish post. It actually cracks me up because you try and provoke me by calling me a 'kid' while making it painfully obvious that it's a better descriptor for you... nevertheless I digress...
I will point out that once again you're using flawed logic making the argument that no system is better than a flawed system. This whole "THEY MAY ASWELL remove it" statement (besides being a grammar tragedy) is a fallacy. Having the system in place does not prevent you from forming your own groups to do dungeons as everyone would need to do if they removed matchmaking. Removing it because you don't like it just reduces options, and does not improve the game in any way. It would be like me saying 'I don't like candy and it sometimes gives you a cavity so they should stop selling it in stores entirely'.
I think kicking is far worse than not being able to kick at all. Not being able to kick - if the group sucks, just leave - 'self-kick' as it were.
The problem with this sentiment is, the GROUP rarely ever sucks. It's not the GROUP. It's that ONE SINGLE PLAYER that can't see the red on the ground or is lagging to badly to dodge, and dies on every pull and takes so much damage during boss fights the GF needs to turn off Knight's Valor. As I'm sure many will agree with me, Gear Score is meaningless. I don't ever kick people based on Gear Score alone (and it's a shame a lot of people do). In your theoretical scenario I join a group and am somehow able to tell if the group 'sucks' or not. I say this is impossible.
I play with anyone I get and then see through play if they are a competent or idiotic player. By the time it becomes obvious to me (and usually to the rest of the group) that a player is dramatically unskilled and a burden to the group, I've already invested time in the dungeon. It seems a shame to let the group of 4 perhaps awesome, kind, skilled players fall apart because of one Leeroy Jenkins pulling 10 groups of enemies at once, or one Legolas standing in the red, miles away from heals, firing his bow with no f's given. This is when I use the Vote to Kick option. It's not perfect, but I consider it a valuable tool.
I don't even need to respond to this you do an excellent job proving my moron theory without any help. What a childish post. It actually cracks me up because you try and provoke me by calling me a 'kid' while making it painfully obvious that it's a better descriptor for you... nevertheless I digress...
I will point out that once again you're using flawed logic making the argument that no system is better than a flawed system. This whole "THEY MAY ASWELL remove it" statement (besides being a grammar tragedy) is a fallacy. Having the system in place does not prevent you from forming your own groups to do dungeons as everyone would need to do if they removed matchmaking. Removing it because you don't like it just reduces options, and does not improve the game in any way. It would be like me saying 'I don't like candy and it sometimes gives you a cavity so they should stop selling it in stores entirely'.
Haha, you managed to find one typo, and turn into the grammar police. Good one!
Also, calling me out for a 'childish post', after you call me a moron in your first post for no reason. Yet I'm the one trying to provoke? Gotta love the attempt at reverse psychology.
Anyway:
Having the system in place certainly doesn't prevent me from forming my own groups to do dungeons. Removing it doesn't prevent me doing that either.
You can dress it up however you like with various analogies, but the bottom line is that the system doesn't work properly and I stand by that. Id like to add, I certainly don't want them to remove the option of playing with PUGS (you seem to be focusing on that, yet it was merely a case of me saying it serves no purpose in its current state because of the VTK abuse), but removing the VTK most definitely would improve the game.
I propose this, in the pvp queue you cannot kick people. This causes it's on set of problems, but nothing to the point were the forms are flooded with complaints about that queue system. If not being able to kick can be tolerated on the PVP side, then I believe it can be tolerated on the PVE side. I do agree, it should be if you don't like the group you roll in, then you should leave. If you don't want to run with another of your class then you should leave. If you don't want to try to kill the boss for the 5th time, then you should leave. It should not be, if you don't like the points above, you get to boot people. The PVE queue system, in its current state, is set up to overly exploit and to continue to facility this, as a company, is not right. I think players should continue to report to xbox about the players and guilds that are booting players for loot, and hold the company accountable for this. When I saw a guild named, "boot and Loot", it's like there are rubbing it in the player bases face, because we can't do anything about it.
I want to drop some money is this game, because I'm really enjoying it, but the current queue system has me hesitating.
I propose this, in the pvp queue you cannot kick people. This causes it's on set of problems, but nothing to the point were the forms are flooded with complaints about that queue system. If not being able to kick can be tolerated on the PVP side, then I believe it can be tolerated on the PVE side. I do agree, it should be if you don't like the group you roll in, then you should leave. If you don't want to run with another of your class then you should leave. If you don't want to try to kill the boss for the 5th time, then you should leave. It should not be, if you don't like the points above, you get to boot people. The PVE queue system, in its current state, is set up to overly exploit and to continue to facility this, as a company, is not right. I think players should continue to report to xbox about the players and guilds that are booting players for loot, and hold the company accountable for this. When I saw a guild named, "boot and Loot", it's like there are rubbing it in the player bases face, because we can't do anything about it.
I want to drop some money is this game, because I'm really enjoying it, but the current queue system has me hesitating.
Except for the put money in it part (i expect a lot out of games in modern times for money) i whole heartedly agree
The kicking system in this game is the worst game mechanic ever created.
I cannot properly queue for any dungeon because the game server times out all the time.
There is a grotesque imbalance in PVP. PVP is fun however, if there are no trickster rogues.
Only two PVP maps and only one game type.
These are all game-breaking experiences and I hope the developers listen to our feedback.
same here when I wasted half a day on the same dungeon just to get kicked after we beat the boss on frozen heart to dugeon I played it 2wice to the end only for them to boot me I'm tired cause I just want the boots but itseems getting irratating the booting system it should lock them in without voting after boss killed so no one gets kicked after the boss fight at the end
I'm on my third character, when he reaches lvl 60 I will be DONE with this game for the foreseeable future as the queuing/kick system as currently implemented makes the game unplayable. There will be no further investment from me.
I can't completely blame PW/CRYPTIC, etc., it's the XBOX community that is abusing this feature beyond what was intended. It does however ruin the game, and if what our PC brethren have said is true, then I fear for the solution (if ever).
.02 cents given.
Okay, look I feel everyone's pain. I'd hate to be kicked too, but if this is an issue- why are people not trying to make friends to play with? It's an MMO. Massively Multi-player (keyword there) Online. Of course people will abuse stuff, like the Auction house, AD/Zen scams, loot & boot. The point is, to mitigate this problem and save you stress and time, why not find many players who are good people and innocent or usually victims at the game and add them. On PC or Xbox there are numerous great players looking for help on quests and other stuff. Be social, talk to people and ask how often they play and if they would ever run anything with you again. When you get a list of 30+ players who play Neverwinter, a few are bound to help you quest/farm or run T1/T2/Castle Never.
Guilds are another great way. Guilds are expensive in this game, so don't join a guild with you and 3 buddies (2 of which never play the game after 1st week), join an active guild. One that helps and screens members. The ones who stay around 10-40 players, this gives you more ability to connect with similar interest players.
Yes vote kick sucks, I know. But what are YOU doing to change this issue for yourself, because if just 're-queing' is your answer, you're part of the problem too.
The kicking system in this game is the worst game mechanic ever created.
I cannot properly queue for any dungeon because the game server times out all the time.
There is a grotesque imbalance in PVP. PVP is fun however, if there are no trickster rogues.
Only two PVP maps and only one game type.
These are all game-breaking experiences and I hope the developers listen to our feedback.
They do listen........Then whack one off at how irritated they have made people.
You get kicked by whales, if they look down on you.
You get kicked, if you are before chest, after doing all the hard work, sometimes for hours, cause some find a perverted fun in doing it.
Some kick you, if you aren't the right class.
Some kick you, if you don't take "short cuts".
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Comments
You're a moron. You're flawed logic is to remove a choice because sometimes people make the wrong choice? Right now people can choose to be intelligent and run with friends or guild-mates or choose to PUG and take their chances. You're arguing that because every PUG isn't a perfect group of delightful benefactors that they might as well just remove that choice? Moron.
PUGs have always been a train-wreck in every MMORPG I've ever played, and trust me it's a long list. Thank heavens for Vote-to-Kick since when my friends aren't online and I choose to PUG, I can at least remove the moron who's always standing in the red and dying making it impossible for us to proceed. Thank heavens for the choice to queue with randoms because that's HOW I've met all my Neverwinter friends that I now queue with to avoid kicks. Thank heavens I have enough common sense and MMORPG experience to not be complaining about these trivial aspects of an awesome game.
FeelTheBern
Right you are , that is an option too ..
I'm a moron?, yet you're on a forum trying to insult me? Get a grip kid.
The PUG system is broken/not working as intended, it's a simple as that.. if you can't grasp that, then that simply speaks volumes about your mental capacity.
Also, re-read what I said, and try and understand what it means 'kid'. I don't say I want the PUG system removed, neither do I advise that they should do so... I'll explain it for you nice and simply (imagine I'm saying this very slowly for you):
IF the system doesn't work and they have no intention of fixing it, then why is it here? THEY MAY ASWELL remove it.
Get it? It needs fixing, or it's pointless having it. There's nothing at all flawed with that logic.
My argument isn't that "not every PUG isn't a perfect group of delightful benefactors", it's that MOST OF THEM are awful... the majority. Get it?? That means it's a broken system... get it???
Try again, 'moron'
I don't even need to respond to this you do an excellent job proving my moron theory without any help. What a childish post. It actually cracks me up because you try and provoke me by calling me a 'kid' while making it painfully obvious that it's a better descriptor for you... nevertheless I digress...
I will point out that once again you're using flawed logic making the argument that no system is better than a flawed system. This whole "THEY MAY ASWELL remove it" statement (besides being a grammar tragedy) is a fallacy. Having the system in place does not prevent you from forming your own groups to do dungeons as everyone would need to do if they removed matchmaking. Removing it because you don't like it just reduces options, and does not improve the game in any way. It would be like me saying 'I don't like candy and it sometimes gives you a cavity so they should stop selling it in stores entirely'.
FeelTheBern
I play with anyone I get and then see through play if they are a competent or idiotic player. By the time it becomes obvious to me (and usually to the rest of the group) that a player is dramatically unskilled and a burden to the group, I've already invested time in the dungeon. It seems a shame to let the group of 4 perhaps awesome, kind, skilled players fall apart because of one Leeroy Jenkins pulling 10 groups of enemies at once, or one Legolas standing in the red, miles away from heals, firing his bow with no f's given. This is when I use the Vote to Kick option. It's not perfect, but I consider it a valuable tool.
FeelTheBern
Haha, you managed to find one typo, and turn into the grammar police. Good one!
Also, calling me out for a 'childish post', after you call me a moron in your first post for no reason. Yet I'm the one trying to provoke? Gotta love the attempt at reverse psychology.
Anyway:
Having the system in place certainly doesn't prevent me from forming my own groups to do dungeons. Removing it doesn't prevent me doing that either.
You can dress it up however you like with various analogies, but the bottom line is that the system doesn't work properly and I stand by that. Id like to add, I certainly don't want them to remove the option of playing with PUGS (you seem to be focusing on that, yet it was merely a case of me saying it serves no purpose in its current state because of the VTK abuse), but removing the VTK most definitely would improve the game.
I want to drop some money is this game, because I'm really enjoying it, but the current queue system has me hesitating.
Except for the put money in it part (i expect a lot out of games in modern times for money) i whole heartedly agree
I hear there's a neighbourhood called Tamriel coming soon
NEVERWINTER please get yer <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> together soon.
Okay, look I feel everyone's pain. I'd hate to be kicked too, but if this is an issue- why are people not trying to make friends to play with? It's an MMO. Massively Multi-player (keyword there) Online. Of course people will abuse stuff, like the Auction house, AD/Zen scams, loot & boot. The point is, to mitigate this problem and save you stress and time, why not find many players who are good people and innocent or usually victims at the game and add them. On PC or Xbox there are numerous great players looking for help on quests and other stuff. Be social, talk to people and ask how often they play and if they would ever run anything with you again. When you get a list of 30+ players who play Neverwinter, a few are bound to help you quest/farm or run T1/T2/Castle Never.
Guilds are another great way. Guilds are expensive in this game, so don't join a guild with you and 3 buddies (2 of which never play the game after 1st week), join an active guild. One that helps and screens members. The ones who stay around 10-40 players, this gives you more ability to connect with similar interest players.
Yes vote kick sucks, I know. But what are YOU doing to change this issue for yourself, because if just 're-queing' is your answer, you're part of the problem too.
They do listen........Then whack one off at how irritated they have made people.
You get kicked by whales, if they look down on you.
You get kicked, if you are before chest, after doing all the hard work, sometimes for hours, cause some find a perverted fun in doing it.
Some kick you, if you aren't the right class.
Some kick you, if you don't take "short cuts".
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke