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only rogues?

tnucmadnessstnucmadnesss Member Posts: 6 Arc User
edited May 2015 in PvP Discussion
i see alot of moaning about rogues being OP etc. but. in my leveling exp with warlock " Fungus" yea i know the name is quite unique. i do stupid amounts of damage in a short space of time. almost 2 shot most ppl. i think we should make these posts fair for most classes not just single out 1.
Post edited by tnucmadnesss on

Comments

  • krad777krad777 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Warlocks are known to be the most underwhelming class in pvp. And I can guarantee you are not 2 Shotting ppl as a Warlock at high lvl pvp.
    "An Idle mind is the devils workshop"
  • wadaafaakwadaafaak Member Posts: 15
    edited April 2015
    He's not right but not totally wrong either, and you cant talk about 2-3 shotting peoples with a warlock as its alot of DOTs, apart killing flames that can do 20k+ but that's with very low hp target. But in term of killing as a poor 11k sw i can kill any class except gwf/gf ( and good rogues ) in about 3-4 seconds, basically with 3 encouters + the dots so that's 3 shot basically, gwf takes about 2x longer and gf, well.. they're boring. So yea just because theres alot of brainless sw running dreadtheft on pvp doesnt mean you cant get insta killed by another sw ;)
  • e11ze11z Member Posts: 144 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2015
    The Best PVP Guild on Dragon/Neverwinter: YoloOldSkoolSwagLoveNeverGingersLuvDupStep even if it's just one of us, you might as well just afk.
  • cupcakeslolcupcakeslol Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    i can 1 v 1 any rogue wit my cleric
  • krad777krad777 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    i can 1 v 1 any rogue wit my cleric

    This game isn't 1 v 1 and you're a cleric, you should be able to "1 v 1" any class..
    "An Idle mind is the devils workshop"
  • daimyondaimyon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 49
    edited April 2015
    My issue with rogues lately has been their tactics. As soon as they realize that they're not going to get an easy kill on me, they resort to doing a stealth attack, then running away until their cooldowns are back and can stealth again. I still manage to kill most of them, it's just kinda frustrating to deal with.
    I saw one rogue yesterday, I'm not going to call him out, but he would stealth, use lashing blade, then run back behind his team and wait until he could do it again. He wouldn't even attempt to fight or use any other abilities.
  • zaknafyenzaknafyen Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    daimyon wrote: »
    My issue with rogues lately has been their tactics. As soon as they realize that they're not going to get an easy kill on me, they resort to doing a stealth attack, then running away until their cooldowns are back and can stealth again. I still manage to kill most of them, it's just kinda frustrating to deal with.
    I saw one rogue yesterday, I'm not going to call him out, but he would stealth, use lashing blade, then run back behind his team and wait until he could do it again. He wouldn't even attempt to fight or use any other abilities.

    Seems like that was some clever use of class mechanics.
  • cupcakeslolcupcakeslol Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    krad777 wrote: »
    This game isn't 1 v 1 and you're a cleric, you should be able to "1 v 1" any class..

    didn't mean to sound arrogant. i thought this post was a complaint that rogues are too OP versus all classes. Anyhow, I think adding a 1v1 duel feature would a great idea?? Anyone agree? No need for 1 v 1 pvp or arena, but a simple duel of 2 players would be pretty cool IMO
  • krad777krad777 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    didn't mean to sound arrogant. i thought this post was a complaint that rogues are too OP versus all classes. Anyhow, I think adding a 1v1 duel feature would a great idea?? Anyone agree? No need for 1 v 1 pvp or arena, but a simple duel of 2 players would be pretty cool IMO

    No worries, didnt think you sounded arrogant.

    And I would enjoy a 1 vs 1 mode although I do think it would cause a lot more people complaining that classes are OP as this game is very team orientated with each class having its role. Either way though I would love to have a 1 vs 1 option.
    "An Idle mind is the devils workshop"
  • ueturuetur Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    As a Warlock playing lower level PVP some of our powers were pretty solid versus player health. However at higher level PVP I don't see any 2 or 3 shotting especially because of Tenacity.
  • daimyondaimyon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 49
    edited April 2015
    zaknafyen wrote: »
    Seems like that was some clever use of class mechanics.

    If you say so. It didn't work out very well for him because, like most rogues are, he was very predictable, and every time he would pop up to attack someone, I would focus him, root him, and he'd drop pretty quickly.
  • zaknafyenzaknafyen Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    daimyon wrote: »
    If you say so. It didn't work out very well for him because, like most rogues are, he was very predictable, and every time he would pop up to attack someone, I would focus him, root him, and he'd drop pretty quickly.

    As you've experienced, very predictable. I never stay too idle, knowing very well the other team has TRs running about. I generally enter combat using Daring Shout. When things are marked, they're generally easier to keep track of.
  • daimyondaimyon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 49
    edited April 2015
    zaknafyen wrote: »
    As you've experienced, very predictable. I never stay too idle, knowing very well the other team has TRs running about. I generally enter combat using Daring Shout. When things are marked, they're generally easier to keep track of.

    Regardless of what people say, however, the numbers speak for themselves. Unless EVERYONE is just terrible at dealing with rogues. They are constantly getting a high number of kills in PVP, they are the majority class in a vast majority of the games, and they are the most complained about class. If it were only half these numbers, I might understand that it's just a lack of understanding of the class mechanics, but even with my experience, an unskilled rogue still survives longer than an unskilled player of any other class. They do a ton of damage, and take very little for a so-called glass cannon class.
    I know Rogues can be countered, I do it all the time. However, I don't think you should have to have a specific class/build, or complicated strategies to deal with one class only. No other class requires the amount of attention you need to give to rogues in order to deal with them.
    What I'm trying to say is it appears that the numbers are backing up what the majority of the people complaining on this board are talking about.
    I'd be happy with something as small as decreasing the crit bonus and damage of Lashing Blade from stealth. It's next to useless in PVE, and does way too much damage in PVP.
  • zaknafyenzaknafyen Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    daimyon wrote: »
    Regardless of what people say, however, the numbers speak for themselves. Unless EVERYONE is just terrible at dealing with rogues. They are constantly getting a high number of kills in PVP, they are the majority class in a vast majority of the games, and they are the most complained about class. If it were only half these numbers, I might understand that it's just a lack of understanding of the class mechanics, but even with my experience, an unskilled rogue still survives longer than an unskilled player of any other class. They do a ton of damage, and take very little for a so-called glass cannon class.
    I know Rogues can be countered, I do it all the time. However, I don't think you should have to have a specific class/build, or complicated strategies to deal with one class only. No other class requires the amount of attention you need to give to rogues in order to deal with them.
    What I'm trying to say is it appears that the numbers are backing up what the majority of the people complaining on this board are talking about.
    I'd be happy with something as small as decreasing the crit bonus and damage of Lashing Blade from stealth. It's next to useless in PVE, and does way too much damage in PVP.

    Careful. There are a network of players in this forum that seem to have a "Anti-TR Sense" and will let you know how wrong you are for having an opinion.

    I'll be honest, what kills me the most in PvP are other GWFs and CWs. TRs are not an issue for me, but that may also be part of the "buddy system" my friend and I use. We watch each others backs and, as soon as he sees one jumping on me, he closes in with the stun. Either that TR is running for stealth or he's dead. You can't go in there with a lone wolf strategy, thinking your going to cap a stone and hold it yourself. The last game I was in, we had a HR go and cap 1. They let him have it. He stood there, literally doing nothing. Didn't bother to come help take 2 or re-take 3. Because that happened, they gained enough control over the situation that they were literally killing us right out of the spawn area. If we had him backing us, he would have provided enough CC to give us a bit of an edge. The only thing I can say about TRs, while I have one at Level 60, is Stealth loss should be a bit quicker or shouldn't be gained as quickly as they do (that's purely from a PvE standpoint, as it made PvE content seem ridiculously easy). I can't speak from the PvP aspect as I haven't played one in PvP yet.
  • daimyondaimyon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 49
    edited April 2015
    zaknafyen wrote: »
    Careful. There are a network of players in this forum that seem to have a "Anti-TR Sense" and will let you know how wrong you are for having an opinion.

    I'll be honest, what kills me the most in PvP are other GWFs and CWs. TRs are not an issue for me, but that may also be part of the "buddy system" my friend and I use. We watch each others backs and, as soon as he sees one jumping on me, he closes in with the stun. Either that TR is running for stealth or he's dead. You can't go in there with a lone wolf strategy, thinking your going to cap a stone and hold it yourself. The last game I was in, we had a HR go and cap 1. They let him have it. He stood there, literally doing nothing. Didn't bother to come help take 2 or re-take 3. Because that happened, they gained enough control over the situation that they were literally killing us right out of the spawn area. If we had him backing us, he would have provided enough CC to give us a bit of an edge. The only thing I can say about TRs, while I have one at Level 60, is Stealth loss should be a bit quicker or shouldn't be gained as quickly as they do (that's purely from a PvE standpoint, as it made PvE content seem ridiculously easy). I can't speak from the PvP aspect as I haven't played one in PvP yet.
    I just wanted to point out that the numbers speak louder than words. People will say what they will about strategies to beat rogues, or how to spec to beat rogues, but in the end, if they weren't so broken, they wouldn't be so represented.
  • zaknafyenzaknafyen Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    daimyon wrote: »
    I just wanted to point out that the numbers speak louder than words. People will say what they will about strategies to beat rogues, or how to spec to beat rogues, but in the end, if they weren't so broken, they wouldn't be so represented.

    I definitely agree with you there. Strategies should and will be used, but that doesn't change the fact that there is something about the class that caused a huge movement to them. Maybe it was other MMOs with a Rogue like class that allowed easy keyboard facerolling.
  • crispyslinky07crispyslinky07 Member Posts: 126 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Is it just me or are people crazy when they say TR are the most popular. I've played more matches then probably lyrics the majority of players and what I've experienced is diversity. It always seems to be a good mix in every match
    Ant
    < Goon Squad >
  • wadaafaakwadaafaak Member Posts: 15
    edited April 2015
    uetur wrote: »
    As a Warlock playing lower level PVP some of our powers were pretty solid versus player health. However at higher level PVP I don't see any 2 or 3 shotting especially because of Tenacity.

    Depends of your gear and their gear, and also ur build, if its an equal matchup and you fight someone around the same gearscore as you, harrowstorm>curse>bargain>killing flames the guy is dead if he didnt manage to dodge the storm cc.
    If the guy is not dead with the 3 encounters, he will be dead after 4-5 autos considering the dots + set bonus if the sw use accursed diabo set + fury end build, sometimes i just feel lazy, curse one guy and spam auto + hellish on him, dead in a few secs.
    Again that's exemples of fight without cleric heals, with a DC that's not comparable anymore, they wont die 3-4 shots but if you have a DC too, you wont die instantly either.

    About rogues anyways, there are the sucky ones only using lashing and usually losing their matches, and the good ones most of the time on permastealth build that use their dodges at the right moments and know their combos, and can 1v3 easily on soloqueue.
    The one shot lashing build should be nerfed, not the class itself.
  • thekeypitthekeypit Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    From what I've experienced in my last pvp-matches: 9 out of 10 matches are filled with 40% of TRs.
    Diversity is non-existent.
  • zaknafyenzaknafyen Member Posts: 200 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    thekeypit wrote: »
    From what I've experienced in my last pvp-matches: 9 out of 10 matches are filled with 40% of TRs.
    Diversity is non-existent.

    The queue system is horribly put together. Other MMOs have used a class queue system, in which you specify what you're queuing as, even in PVP. Having a system like this may mean a bit longer queue times, but would also guarantee a diverse set of classes in each team. Something like this wouldn't matter much if the matches were larger than 5v5. At it's current state, I've been lucky to have a healer on our team and whenever I have, the game decided to remove me from the match (not even 5 minutes out the gates) and place a restriction on me from queuing again, as if I left intentionally.
  • latinlegendlatinlegend Member Posts: 43
    edited May 2015
    Now that my trapper is working on the second tier of PvP gear, rouges are no longer an issue at all. Even if they go get the jump on me, I can turn it around on them instantly causing them to flee or sit there & get dropped. Then I pretty much become bait it there's two of them on the team which is fairly common in the matchmaking. I may get killed by two but I would be giving the 4 other players on my team time to cap a node or two &/or drop the other players on the team resulting in a win nearly 100% of the time.
  • waffennachtwaffennacht Member Posts: 149 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    Gear doesnt matter. Of course if you face my lvl 60 and his 6k gear rating, ur going to win.
    Now if all variables are equal, the TR should win. If he has no moves etc, then the point is over, you are re actting and not acting meaning the depedant is the rogue, he is in control.
    When i hear " i have no problems" i hear, "I faced a TR with low gear and won"
    I w
  • waffennachtwaffennacht Member Posts: 149 Bounty Hunter
    edited May 2015
    I have 4 characters, cleric, sw, cw, and tr. I almost always win with my TR. I know nothing of my gear or strategy etc. I just know i win more in everything with my TR. Logically as i dont change, then the power of the character does, logically then of those 4, TR is the most powerful.
  • latinlegendlatinlegend Member Posts: 43
    edited May 2015
    TR shouldn't win as the trapper is as much as a hard counter to any TR build as they come. If the TR wins, that lands more on the Hunter player not knowing what they're doing. Even with the massive amount of utility the TR has, they run out of steam a lot faster than a trapper does. Especially against one that knows how to switch stances to drop CD's on all skills. I only lose to a TR now IF I am focusing on another player & they get the jump on me turning it into a 2 v 1. Which is very common among TR players now if the opposing team has a player that is wrecking them.
  • leighroyibleighroyib Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I like the idea of a 'duel' mechanic. Not to queue for and gain rewards from but just selecting a character and requesting a duel right there where you're standing. Common in a lot of mmo's and can get highly addictive!
  • nfldpatriotnfldpatriot Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    TR shouldn't win as the trapper is as much as a hard counter to any TR build as they come. If the TR wins, that lands more on the Hunter player not knowing what they're doing. Even with the massive amount of utility the TR has, they run out of steam a lot faster than a trapper does. Especially against one that knows how to switch stances to drop CD's on all skills. I only lose to a TR now IF I am focusing on another player & they get the jump on me turning it into a 2 v 1. Which is very common among TR players now if the opposing team has a player that is wrecking them.

    This has been my experience as well and I still get double kills at times with my trapper vs TR and teammate. I typically have more trouble with CW but have improved by using Forest Ghost so I can close distance when switching from ranged to melee for the kill.
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