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Something needs to be done about TRs

daimyondaimyon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 49
edited April 2015 in PvP Discussion
I think everyone has thought it after spending any amount of time in PVP. It feels like there is no point to playing PVP unless you're a rogue. Almost every game I play in, half or more players are rogues.
The major issue is that you don't even get a fighting chance against Trickster Rogues. They stealth in, and in one move, you're at 50% health or less. From then, you're dazed until you die. And before you say, "just see them coming and dodge the assassination," let us remember that they can easily restealth and do it again in very rapid succession.
Maybe they are meant to do a ton of single target DPS in PVE, but it's not translating very well into PVP.
Post edited by daimyon on
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Comments

  • divine82pvpdivine82pvp Member Posts: 101 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2015
    http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?893231-SoD-Joketage

    Guy in my guild just posted this. It's pretty broken atm.
    Tenacity PvP Guild
    Divine 60 Spellstorm Control Wizard
    twitch.tv/Divine1982
  • fukiiyufukiiyu Member Posts: 159 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2015
    daimyon wrote: »
    Maybe they are meant to do a ton of single target DPS in PVE, but it's not translating very well into PVP.

    Maybe... Just mayyyybe.. They are meant to do a lot of single target DPS in PvP also.
  • e11ze11z Member Posts: 144 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2015
    fukiiyu wrote: »
    Maybe... Just mayyyybe.. They are meant to do a lot of single target DPS in PvP also.

    It's not dps it's ****ing broken opener damage.

    No they were never meant to be this strong.

    The only reason they are like this is because on the PC version they have made changes based on end game content.

    TR's are broken because they made no balance changes for the xbox version which is currently filled with new players and fresh low rated gear.

    (i'm talking about level 60 here)

    Or do you honestly believe taking 90% damage off of a target is fair (with one skill).
    The Best PVP Guild on Dragon/Neverwinter: YoloOldSkoolSwagLoveNeverGingersLuvDupStep even if it's just one of us, you might as well just afk.
  • fukiiyufukiiyu Member Posts: 159 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2015
    e11z wrote: »
    (i'm talking about level 60 here)

    Or do you honestly believe taking 90% damage off of a target is fair (with one skill).


    I'm also talking about Lvl60 PVP.

    I do believe it's fair, once people have a high pool of HP and Tenacity it won't be as bad but even still, if a TR that is geared hits a lower geared player, they deserve to die.

    I feel like they need to have that 1 shot hard damaging Power for the simple fact they are suppose to be the "Assassins" of the game and in order to assassinate someone with 30,000 life they better hit f***ing hard.. You nerf the Rogue and he starts slapping people for 5,000 damage that will be ridiculous.. LOL come on man, learn to dodge. ;)
  • daimyondaimyon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 49
    edited April 2015
    fukiiyu wrote: »
    I'm also talking about Lvl60 PVP.

    I do believe it's fair, once people have a high pool of HP and Tenacity it won't be as bad but even still, if a TR that is geared hits a lower geared player, they deserve to die.

    I feel like they need to have that 1 shot hard damaging Power for the simple fact they are suppose to be the "Assassins" of the game and in order to assassinate someone with 30,000 life they better hit f***ing hard.. You nerf the Rogue and he starts slapping people for 5,000 damage that will be ridiculous.. LOL come on man, learn to dodge. ;)

    You would think that, playing a rogue yourself.
  • fukiiyufukiiyu Member Posts: 159 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2015
    daimyon wrote: »
    You would think that, playing a rogue yourself.

    Yup and you would spam OP NERFZ OHEMGEE because you got steamrolled and you don't play one yourself.
  • fukiiyufukiiyu Member Posts: 159 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2015
    daimyon wrote: »
    And before you say, "just see them coming and dodge the assassination," let us remember that they can easily restealth and do it again in very rapid succession.

    If you "just see them coming and dodge the assassination" then you won't get hit.

    Oh, they re-stealthed and they want to do it again? GREAT! Your evade is off CD, so, uh, DODGE again? :)

    I suggest you spend more time practicing your dodging than complaining on the forums.
  • nutcrustpienutcrustpie Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    lol im sorry i just had to get on and say something to the people saying "dodge, just dodge, omg you can dodge" . ive been playing this game since release on pc and the first post clearly said "they can RESTEALTH and do it again". he is not saying that he cant dodge at all. he is saying you cant if they are stealthed because you cant see the rogue you dumn f***s, you r telling me to go outside and dodge the wind hitting me in the face basically . bring any of your buffed broken rogues to pc ill f***ing destroy it with my DC, HR or GWF. FYI rogues were not nerfed in mod 6. they still are FOTM non skill broken characters. the people that use them just like non skill characters. they cant beat a good player
  • fukiiyufukiiyu Member Posts: 159 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2015
    lol im sorry i just had to get on and say something to the people saying "dodge, just dodge, omg you can dodge" . ive been playing this game since release on pc and the first post clearly said "they can RESTEALTH and do it again". he is not saying that he cant dodge at all. he is saying you cant if they are stealthed because you cant see the rogue you dumn f***s,

    You probably shouldn't have said anything because you look like an idiot.

    I don't care if they are Stealthed or not, you can still dodge them regardless.

    If you have been playing since release on PC and don't know this, then you need to uninstall and probably never play a single video game ever again in your life.

    I got tired of being 1-shotted by other Rogues so I now bait them into swinging first and then I "DODGE" them and return the favor. ((MIND YOU THEY ARE STEALTH WHEN THEY ARE SWINGING FIRST))

    You could probably be less vulgar and offensive because typing cuss words does not prove your point any better. It actually makes you look like a dumb *** to be honest.

    PSS- I just saw your name and didn't realize it at first, no wonder you act like a child.
  • daimyondaimyon Member, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 49
    edited April 2015
    fukiiyu wrote: »
    Yup and you would spam OP NERFZ OHEMGEE because you got steamrolled and you don't play one yourself.
    Actually, I do have a rogue, so I can make the comparison. Do you PVP as any other class to compare it to?
  • robertdiazrobertdiaz Member Posts: 43
    edited April 2015
    Honestly you can leave TR as it is I think Devoted Cleric is the class that needs looking at in PvP: 4v1 and the cleric lives
    Britney Spears Hunter Ranger

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  • latinlegendlatinlegend Member Posts: 43
    edited April 2015
    The issues with Rouges is that a majority of the time, a good rouge WILL catch you off guard & the dodging mechanics will only do so much to get you out of how quickly they can pile on the damage. Especially since they can close pretty much any gap you open with ease outside of having an escape ability. The biggest issue with the class as a whole is that other classes do have hard counter builds for Trickster Rouges but you pretty much have to be running that cookie cutter kind of build which extremely limits your character as a whole. Pretty much breaks the entire PvP experience. I know I can pretty much slap fire out of a TR if I was running a trapper build but since I am not, there is virtually nothing I can do against them with my current archery build. Which is flat out horrible in PvP I should mention :P. While I do not know if things have changed on the PC side at this point, the best thing they can do is have it that a majority of other builds have the ability to hard CC rouges & allow them to choose to kite or escape. Depending on the class.
  • syphdaeoussyphdaeous Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Rogues ruin PvP in xbox. I have a an archer cleric and rogue. With rogue you faceroll lol 1 shot people and the other classes you actually have to use abilities and combo. I have a rogue in the PC version and it is not nearly as broken. They have to do something about the opener damage. It reminds me of smuggler/Operative when SWTOR launched. LOL one shot **** I am so awesome don't nerf me this is all skill.
  • fychonfychon Member Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I think most folks are on the money here. Rogues can be countered in a few situations, but currently they dominate in pvp. It's not because of player skill, it's because of bad class design. They have every kind of advantage In pvp. Stealth, hard cc, huge burst and probably the best dash in the game. It's no wonder they are the highest pvp-queued class currently.

    Folks that are saying that this is "fine" and everyone else should adjust to their lopsided playing field are clearly in denial and only offer conjecture in defense of their huge advantage.

    An adjustment to the class is inevitable.
  • akwxziakwxzi Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    ur so dum;p you cant dodge if you cant see him... omg clueless
  • krad777krad777 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Let's play a game. Read every comment and try to figure out who plays as a rogue. Lol
    "An Idle mind is the devils workshop"
  • sudnd3thsudnd3th Member Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    games new on xbone and really u cant call out if it needs to be nerfed or what yet. wait till ppl get top level gear and stuff and see how well a TR does against you then, I garentee he isnt going to one shot you and if you know how to make us screw up we die just about as fast.
    suDnd3th - LvL 70 PvP WK Scoundrel TR
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    XB1 GT - suDnd3th
  • dewwhiskersdewwhiskers Member Posts: 45
    edited April 2015
    fukiiyu wrote: »
    If you "just see them coming and dodge the assassination" then you won't get hit.

    Oh, they re-stealthed and they want to do it again? GREAT! Your evade is off CD, so, uh, DODGE again? :)

    I suggest you spend more time practicing your dodging than complaining on the forums.

    I agree that lashing blade should be able to instakill the undergeared or squishy. I think that lashing blade should be left exactly like it was in mod 5. However, I will point out that maybe telling this guy to simply dodge may not be the best advise if he plays anything that is not a rogue. Not everyone has that kind of mobility. Though you are right, there are plenty of ways all classes can prevent themselves from being instakilled by us without whining for nerfs and there are lots of ways to locate a rogue while it is in stealth(its actually pretty easy). A tank of equal gs can't be instakilled with lashing blade anyway because of hp/defense or in the case of gfs, a shield(there are some rare rogue exceptions but that's like less than 1% of rogues). A warlock has a harder time than the other classes(probably because they need their class buffed bad) avoiding rogue instakills but I've had my *** kicked by skilled sw on numerous occasions in spite of it. An hr actually has several ways to avoid the rogue instakill such as powers that hold you still, ranged damage, and very good mobility. cws can when played right just immobilize, freeze, pick you up and strangle you, ect, so that rogue may not be able to lay a finger on that cw before the cw kills him. And cws can teleport which requires skill on the rogue's part to learn how to counter. No class in my opinion was op in mod 5 by itself, only skilled, well built, and/or well geared members of a class were op against anybody. And that was a good thing, you could still become op(not a problem since all classes have that capability) but when facing an equally skilled member of any class, that match will be pretty darn fair.
  • blindliteblindlite Member Posts: 43
    edited April 2015
    In this case nerf CW's too because they also can easily own anyone. I see them catch TR's out of stealth and it's over bam dead instantly. Nerf them too if this is the case.
  • krad777krad777 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    blindlite wrote: »
    In this case nerf CW's too because they also can easily own anyone. I see them catch TR's out of stealth and it's over bam dead instantly. Nerf them too if this is the case.

    I would actually be okay with that, and I play a CW. The difference between playing a CW and TR is that your build will make or break you as a CW. As a TR, you can pretty much own with very little effort. I've pretty much optimized my build and put up numbers that not many CW's can. I also see a ton of CW's pvping with a horrible build and it shows. And I can tell you playing a CW in pvp takes a lot more skill than playing a TR, and I hope people that have played both would agree.(I've played both)
    "An Idle mind is the devils workshop"
  • mizzou0mizzou0 Member Posts: 41
    edited April 2015
    krad777 wrote: »
    I would actually be okay with that, and I play a CW. The difference between playing a CW and TR is that your build will make or break you as a CW. As a TR, you can pretty much own with very little effort. I've pretty much optimized my build and put up numbers that not many CW's can. I also see a ton of CW's pvping with a horrible build and it shows. And I can tell you playing a CW in pvp takes a lot more skill than playing a TR, and I hope people that have played both would agree.(I've played both)
    Made me lol
    MIZZOU
    Control Wizard
  • e11ze11z Member Posts: 144 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2015
    To those saying "just dodge"

    Shut up.


    Problem with TR is they have no downsides. mobility damage and survivability, pending if they don't get grasped but even then all they do is spam their dodge and use Impossible to catch.
    The Best PVP Guild on Dragon/Neverwinter: YoloOldSkoolSwagLoveNeverGingersLuvDupStep even if it's just one of us, you might as well just afk.
  • fukiiyufukiiyu Member Posts: 159 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2015
    Just dodge.
  • ab0vegr0undab0vegr0und Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 6
    edited April 2015
    You can see a stealthed rogue if they get to close... at that point just dodge, that blows their cd, and brings them out of stealth..

    When I play a TR I get kinda sad when people dodge..... all I can think is.... guess I'll try again later. At which point I'll flee and try to one hit again.

    fyi stop getting mad. You're probably new to this game and don't know how to play to the best of your ability.
    I can tell you're new because your stupid join date is march2015.

    New-to-mmo generation, this game has been out for a long time. Rouges are still the same.
    So as arnold would say, "STOP WHINING":).
  • fukiiyufukiiyu Member Posts: 159 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2015
    fyi stop getting mad. You're probably new to this game and don't know how to play to the best of your ability.
    I can tell you're new because your stupid join date is march2015.

    I just went through this thread and saw that I'm the only one with a join date of Mar 2015.. I hope you're not calling me out for complaining because not once did I complain about Rogues. I actually told everyone to just dodge. Soooo you can STFU. ;)
  • munkey81munkey81 Member Posts: 1,322 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    e11z wrote: »
    To those saying "just dodge"

    Shut up.


    Problem with TR is they have no downsides. mobility damage and survivability, pending if they don't get grasped but even then all they do is spam their dodge and use Impossible to catch.

    While usually a touchy subject as PvP tends to be, this thread has been pretty peaceful.

    Until you come in with your forum diarrhea spewing from your piehole telling people to shut up. Not sure who you think you are, but you bring no relevance at all to this topic. You must want to be flamed for your sheer rudeness and ignorance.

    I read through your prior posts, as anyone can do, and its obvious you continually troll peoples threads with your ridiculous rude comments.

    Its plainly obvious you have no real opinions on anything and they seem to change on the daily.

    Here is a quote from one of your previous posts.

    Quote: TR's Are so easy to kill. I rolled a CW and Obliterated one. Simply by knowing what he's guna try and do.

    Problem is people are not learning fast enough. They see big numbers on them and they are like "**** op that TR must have killed me all on his own."

    You say that....and now you come in here complaining about TR's?

    Please continue posting.....so we can all point and laugh at your expense.

    Cheers!
  • fukiiyufukiiyu Member Posts: 159 Bounty Hunter
    edited April 2015
    munkey81 wrote: »
    Please continue posting.....so we can all point and laugh at your expense.

    Cheers!

    Hahahahah troll got put back under the bridge
  • rapier89rapier89 Member Posts: 42
    edited April 2015
    robertdiaz wrote: »
    Honestly you can leave TR as it is I think Devoted Cleric is the class that needs looking at in PvP: 4v1 and the cleric lives

    Either your joking or you have no idea how the cleric is played. Either way you are wrong. The only way a DC can pull this off on xbox is if they are straight healing and buff spec or hella lucky.Also being fully empowered and have prophetic passive wich only works once every 60 seconds and it negates all damage for one hit, if they are straight healing then their damage output is severely hindered and they will still eventually die. I know this because i play a DC and pvp often unless the rouges are out in droves. Im more of a damage spec and can burn down folks pretty easy until my divinity meter goes dry then its game over unless i do like most of the rouges I have encountered do and run. I have full t1 and some t2 gear.working on a full set of pvp gear when i get the time.At my 25k hp i am one shot kill for most rouges. when it doesn't kill me outright the dude usually runs because i guess its just so surprising for them that i wasn't insta-killed that they don't know how to react. When im on a decent team im usually on top unless there is a half way decent rouge on the map. Its not cause we are op,its cause i took the time to learn the strengths and weakness of my particular build. And yes you might be able to get lucky and dodge at the right moment to avoid a one shot. But then another just pops out and kills you.

    I play at least 8-12 matches per day and almost always the teams consist of at least 3 rouges on each side and sometimes more. I seen a rouge last week solo the dragon on epic mad dragon. Don't see this happen with any other class. Im not saying nerf them in pve, however 20-30k crit hits in pvp is ridiculous regardless of whether or not they are the "assassin" class. I suppose if they same thing was happening to rouges they wouldn't be so quick to say its fair. I personally would be happy with a cool down on the stealth that was long enough that when they missed they just couldn't run around the corner and re stealth to try for another one shot, at least that would give the illusion of fair play.
  • wade8765wade8765 Member Posts: 86 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    My answer is simple, I'm going to start a Rogue and when I get killed over and over again I'll know how to over come them!!! LOL

    I have a thread here that asks "Trickster Rogue (Thief) in PvP" Any tips on how to beat them with a HUNTER


    Thanks

    .
  • krad777krad777 Member Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    wade8765 wrote: »
    My answer is simple, I'm going to start a Rogue and when I get killed over and over again I'll know how to over come them!!! LOL

    I have a thread here that asks "Trickster Rogue (Thief) in PvP" Any tips on how to beat them with a HUNTER



    .

    Playing as a rogue will definitely help. It will also make you realize how much easier pvp is being a rogue compared to other classes so don't take it too hard on yourself if you find yourself being bested by one. I made a rogue myself strictly for insight on the class.
    "An Idle mind is the devils workshop"
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