It wasn't an issue in module 5 because they multiplied the damage of Avalanche by about 100 for module 6.
Avalanche has multiple problems:
1) no ICD, so it can multiproc
2) inflicts massive damage for being an entirely passive ability, that disregards some types of protection and debuffs (when the SW HoB bug was active, SWs could still die to Avalanche)
3) stacks are built off of each tick of dots, which means some classes (SWs most of all) will get a faceful of it
I don't think anyone that matters would mind if Avalanche got burned to the ground, it doesn't really add any gameplay value. It seems they rebalanced the boon around how useful it would be in PvE and called it a day, not realizing how it utterly breaks some things in PvP.
Here's another example illustrating how broken Avalanche is.
Yup. This. 100%.
Side Note: They need to do to Lostmauth set what they did to SS - No longer a crit and a .5 sec ICD.
Yeah and you ruin PvE with your mindless suggestion. If it's issue in pvp just put pvp dmg reduction on it and it wont kill anyone anymore, while it wont affect PvE.
one day you will explain us how you build 60 stacks of avalance in pve without dying. just saying
I really hope this is pushed for a fix before STRONGHOLDS, just imagine how many of my teammates I will kill just by stacking avalanche on the enemy....
Yeah and you ruin PvE with your mindless suggestion. If it's issue in pvp just put pvp dmg reduction on it and it wont kill anyone anymore, while it wont affect PvE.
Even in PvP this effect does far more than many class feats that cost 5 points. Even the dreaded and feared TR SO only manages 1/7th of what this does in PvE.
This boon basically is the bane of SWs in PvP and is one of the largest reasons they're considered weak. The class overall is actually fairly strong once you build up sparks, which is reasonably okay these days except against TRs, but Avalanche completely destroys the viability of this class, both solo and in team fights. In solo you instantly lose half or more of your HP the second you go near your opponent or they come near you, in team fights you blow up your teammates with your Avalanche procs.
Boons like Elven Ferocity/Tranquility, Shadowtouched/Enraged Regrowth, Fey Thistle and Avalanche need to go. Passive damage/heals like those should not be in the game, mostly the damage boons. You can make the argument that every class can use them, but you cannot argue against the fact that some of them are broken, or are more effective on some classes, or grossly effective to the point of being broken and downright gamebreaking against other classes.
Yeah and you ruin PvE with your mindless suggestion. If it's issue in pvp just put pvp dmg reduction on it and it wont kill anyone anymore, while it wont affect PvE.
<font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> annoys me.
You seem to be missinge what is the problem with that boon. IT MULTIPROCS. Besides I don't see many using it for pve, even GF don't use that.
Please keep in mind that this is a holiday weekend in the USA, so most of the support staff that would look into these things is on vacation. I do understand that you wish to be updated on the situation, but please do not spam. Thank you.
My opinions are my own. I do not work for PWE or Cryptic. - Forum Rules - Protector's Enclave Discord - I play on Xbox Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official. Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
I know the pain,I know how it feels to kill you'r self in a 1v1. All SW know this.
But the dev's have there hands full. And I'm sure this thing is on there to do list.
I know the pain,I know how it feels to kill you'r self in a 1v1. All SW know this.
But the dev's have there hands full. And I'm sure this thing is on there to do list.
Just stop spamming, it does not help.
My last post about it was July 7th and now its 21st......do you know the definition of spam?
I thing if a class has to rely on a bugged ability that multiplies their passive damage output inappropriately, it doesn't matter if it's PvP or PvE. You shouldn't have to use some buggy power in order to win any fights... if SWs need to be adjusted, reliance on a buggy power like this will only make it harder to tell there's a problem, likewise if DDs are thought to be too hard, a power like this could very well call that into question. The correct course of action is to address the buggy power, assess the effects of that then make more adjustments as needed.
I thing if a class has to rely on a bugged ability that multiplies their passive damage output inappropriately, it doesn't matter if it's PvP or PvE. You shouldn't have to use some buggy power in order to win any fights... if SWs need to be adjusted, reliance on a buggy power like this will only make it harder to tell there's a problem, likewise if DDs are thought to be too hard, a power like this could very well call that into question. The correct course of action is to address the buggy power, assess the effects of that then make more adjustments as needed.
What are you talking about? ability? power? (did you read the topic?)
I was speaking generally, Avalanche included. A class that is supposed to have decent damage shouldn't have to rely on a bugged anything (power, feat, boom, item, anything) to live up to its expectations. However bugs need to be addressed first in order to accurately assess a classes difficiencies. Only then can a class be "fixed"
I was speaking generally, Avalanche included. A class that is supposed to have decent damage shouldn't have to rely on a bugged anything (power, feat, boom, item, anything) to live up to its expectations. However bugs need to be addressed first in order to accurately assess a classes difficiencies. Only then can a class be "fixed"
I still don't think you understand, the way you describe it makes it look like you think Avalanche makes SW do more damage? what are you talking about when you say "bugs need to be addressed first"? there is nothing that helps setup this overpowered boon, it's as RAW as it gets, any class that does alot of DOTS will SUFFER from it, NOT benefit.
There is no need to assess anything or fix prior to fixing this BUG.
But see this: less tanky classes (like my HR) have it as the ONLY thing capable of taking on a SW... WHY? cuz if you build your SW right, your DoT's will kill even the Buffest HR in SECONDS!
Don't get your panties in a wad, I was referring to this sort of sentiment.
Anyway, I couldn't replicate it multi-procing. If you have some combination of gear or feats or other things that might contribute, I'd be interested in taking a look, but it doesn't look like whatever it is you're seeing is actually a bug with Avalanche. It might be an unintended side-effect of something else though, hard to say.
Basically, after stripping down completely using a toon with no feats, powers, passives or gear, I went and let a pack of mobs beat on me repeatedly until Avalanche proc'd (typically it killed most of them). I repeated this process 10 times. I never got a multi-proc of Avalanche. The table above shows a single proc of it - as you can see it only actually hits the mobs once. The warriors dropped dead, but the Slavers didn't - if this had multi-proc'd they'd have been dead too.
It might be this has been fixed on Preview? If so, woohoo!
@kvet
It does not really multi-proc.
It is just that a SW hit so fast after each, and with bleeds you cant stop your out going dmg.
For example, when I cast one of the warlock's dot spells it can hit 2 or 3 times/sec.
But with a weapon enchant that number is double, a crit hit with LM set also double the base dmg. So that makes it 6 to 9 hits/sec. Still with me? lets add 2 red dragon glyph's 8 to 11 hits. And there are much more enchants, feats, boons that add more hits on top of this.
So unless you use burst dmg spells that has no bleed or fire dmg effect and avoid all the feats that are adding additional hits. There is no way around it.
This could easily be fixed on the same way as rampaging madness is being fixed long ago.
Just add 1 stack/second on avalanche.
This way a SW will not nuke it self by attacking other players.
Oh - so the problem isn't that it's bugged, the problem is that it's working correctly, but there its an unexpected interaction with a small set of other abilities that make this proc over and over much more quickly than intended in those cases.
Ok, I get it. Yes, there should be definitely be a 1 sec ICD on this boon between stacks.
Oh - so the problem isn't that it's bugged, the problem is that it's working correctly, but there its an unexpected interaction with a small set of other abilities that make this proc over and over much more quickly than intended in those cases.
Ok, I get it. Yes, there should be definitely be a 1 sec ICD on this boon between stacks.
Why do you guys make it so difficult? do you have serious reading comprehension? at this point you are BOTH totally wrong and not even contributing to the thread.
1. You went and tested the bug VS NPC MOBS, you CLEARLY haven't read the original post.
2. it DOES multiprocc, SW is the ONE CAUSING IT, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND, jesus my brain hurts just from typing this to you, how can you be so daft?
Let me repeat it once again: SW puts out MASSIVE dot amount on the enemy players at a VERY fast pace, at some point, the avalanche stacks built on the ENEMY are REFLECTED back to the WARLOCK are MULTIPROCCED.
There are logs and pictures with timestamps and highlighted multiprocs, now go do your test properly when YOU are the attacker (spec to fury) and come back with the results.
Why do you guys make it so difficult? do you have serious reading comprehension? at this point you are BOTH totally wrong and not even contributing to the thread.
1. You went and tested the bug VS NPC MOBS, you CLEARLY haven't read the original post.
2. it DOES multiprocc, SW is the ONE CAUSING IT, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND, jesus my brain hurts just from typing this to you, how can you be so daft?
Let me repeat it once again: SW puts out MASSIVE dot amount on the enemy players at a VERY fast pace, at some point, the avalanche stacks built on the ENEMY are REFLECTED back to the WARLOCK are MULTIPROCCED.
There are logs and pictures with timestamps and highlighted multiprocs, now go do your test properly when YOU are the attacker (spec to fury) and come back with the results.
I think I'm done with this thread. Martianhunter - when someone is trying to help you, you shouldn't talk down to them or belittle them. Just for the record, to ensure a proper bug report, I was starting from the beginning and testing it vanilla since it's a lot harder to organize a PvP test. When YOU have done rigorous testing and have written up a formal bug report - not this ranty BS full of complaining and finger pointing you seem inclined towards - post it here and I'll make sure it gets where it needs to be. As for me, I actually don't have a vested interest in this since I don't play an SW - I was TRYING to help you but all you're doing is telling me I'm an idiot - so I'm done trying to help you. Maybe @strumslinger or someone else here can help - the $0 I get paid isn't enough to compensate me for dealing with attitudes like yours. Good luck with this one, maybe someone else has the patience for you.
I'm sorry did I ask you for your help? You came with elitist attitude disregarding everything said in the thread, the fact that you don't even play SW already indicates you have no business in this thread.
You then proceeded concluding your own opinion disregarding all the evidence laid out in the OP, you did more HARM than good, you did the wrong test and came back with the wrong results, gratz dude, way to show how helpful you are.
I also don't think you need to look deep and do complicated equations to figure out how badly SW perform in pvp, here top 15 players for each class from this season's pvp leaderboard:
Guarantee you the biggest problem right now is the AVALANCHE boon, below stats for INCOMING Damage total of 4 PVP matches:
Almost 1 Million Damage taken from a single BOON.
Below outgoing damage from a GF perspective:
His biggest damage source is a BOON, how laughable is that eh? and thats a maxxed geared 4.2k GF too.
If you trully want to help then HELP, I'm not asking for it but I'm not refusing it, but atleast be thorough in your test and realize this isn't a simple test you can reproduce with DUMMIES.
Comments
Yup. This. 100%.
Side Note: They need to do to Lostmauth set what they did to SS - No longer a crit and a .5 sec ICD.
Youtube Channel PvP and NW brickabrack
Even in PvP this effect does far more than many class feats that cost 5 points. Even the dreaded and feared TR SO only manages 1/7th of what this does in PvE.
Boons like Elven Ferocity/Tranquility, Shadowtouched/Enraged Regrowth, Fey Thistle and Avalanche need to go. Passive damage/heals like those should not be in the game, mostly the damage boons. You can make the argument that every class can use them, but you cannot argue against the fact that some of them are broken, or are more effective on some classes, or grossly effective to the point of being broken and downright gamebreaking against other classes.
You seem to be missinge what is the problem with that boon. IT MULTIPROCS. Besides I don't see many using it for pve, even GF don't use that.
Please keep in mind that this is a holiday weekend in the USA, so most of the support staff that would look into these things is on vacation. I do understand that you wish to be updated on the situation, but please do not spam. Thank you.
Any of my comments not posted in orange are based on my own personal opinion and not official.
Any messages written in orange are official moderation messages. Signature images are now fixed!
can we get some feedback? how does a 2,700 views bug thread goes unanswered?
Be patient.
I know the pain,I know how it feels to kill you'r self in a 1v1. All SW know this.
But the dev's have there hands full. And I'm sure this thing is on there to do list.
Just stop spamming, it does not help.
My last post about it was July 7th and now its 21st......do you know the definition of spam?
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
What are you talking about? ability? power? (did you read the topic?)
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
I still don't think you understand, the way you describe it makes it look like you think Avalanche makes SW do more damage? what are you talking about when you say "bugs need to be addressed first"? there is nothing that helps setup this overpowered boon, it's as RAW as it gets, any class that does alot of DOTS will SUFFER from it, NOT benefit.
There is no need to assess anything or fix prior to fixing this BUG.
Please read the topic again before you reply.
Don't get your panties in a wad, I was referring to this sort of sentiment.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
Basically, after stripping down completely using a toon with no feats, powers, passives or gear, I went and let a pack of mobs beat on me repeatedly until Avalanche proc'd (typically it killed most of them). I repeated this process 10 times. I never got a multi-proc of Avalanche. The table above shows a single proc of it - as you can see it only actually hits the mobs once. The warriors dropped dead, but the Slavers didn't - if this had multi-proc'd they'd have been dead too.
It might be this has been fixed on Preview? If so, woohoo!
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
It does not really multi-proc.
It is just that a SW hit so fast after each, and with bleeds you cant stop your out going dmg.
For example, when I cast one of the warlock's dot spells it can hit 2 or 3 times/sec.
But with a weapon enchant that number is double, a crit hit with LM set also double the base dmg. So that makes it 6 to 9 hits/sec. Still with me? lets add 2 red dragon glyph's 8 to 11 hits. And there are much more enchants, feats, boons that add more hits on top of this.
So unless you use burst dmg spells that has no bleed or fire dmg effect and avoid all the feats that are adding additional hits. There is no way around it.
This could easily be fixed on the same way as rampaging madness is being fixed long ago.
Just add 1 stack/second on avalanche.
This way a SW will not nuke it self by attacking other players.
Ok, I get it. Yes, there should be definitely be a 1 sec ICD on this boon between stacks.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
Why do you guys make it so difficult? do you have serious reading comprehension? at this point you are BOTH totally wrong and not even contributing to the thread.
1. You went and tested the bug VS NPC MOBS, you CLEARLY haven't read the original post.
2. it DOES multiprocc, SW is the ONE CAUSING IT, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND, jesus my brain hurts just from typing this to you, how can you be so daft?
Let me repeat it once again: SW puts out MASSIVE dot amount on the enemy players at a VERY fast pace, at some point, the avalanche stacks built on the ENEMY are REFLECTED back to the WARLOCK are MULTIPROCCED.
There are logs and pictures with timestamps and highlighted multiprocs, now go do your test properly when YOU are the attacker (spec to fury) and come back with the results.
I think I'm done with this thread. Martianhunter - when someone is trying to help you, you shouldn't talk down to them or belittle them. Just for the record, to ensure a proper bug report, I was starting from the beginning and testing it vanilla since it's a lot harder to organize a PvP test. When YOU have done rigorous testing and have written up a formal bug report - not this ranty BS full of complaining and finger pointing you seem inclined towards - post it here and I'll make sure it gets where it needs to be. As for me, I actually don't have a vested interest in this since I don't play an SW - I was TRYING to help you but all you're doing is telling me I'm an idiot - so I'm done trying to help you. Maybe @strumslinger or someone else here can help - the $0 I get paid isn't enough to compensate me for dealing with attitudes like yours. Good luck with this one, maybe someone else has the patience for you.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
You then proceeded concluding your own opinion disregarding all the evidence laid out in the OP, you did more HARM than good, you did the wrong test and came back with the wrong results, gratz dude, way to show how helpful you are.
I also don't think you need to look deep and do complicated equations to figure out how badly SW perform in pvp, here top 15 players for each class from this season's pvp leaderboard:
Guarantee you the biggest problem right now is the AVALANCHE boon, below stats for INCOMING Damage total of 4 PVP matches:
Almost 1 Million Damage taken from a single BOON.
Below outgoing damage from a GF perspective:
His biggest damage source is a BOON, how laughable is that eh? and thats a maxxed geared 4.2k GF too.
If you trully want to help then HELP, I'm not asking for it but I'm not refusing it, but atleast be thorough in your test and realize this isn't a simple test you can reproduce with DUMMIES.