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PVE dungeons - ran several last night for hours. PVE mobs dealing 1Mil+ Damage
ayroux
Member Posts: 4,271 Arc User
There seems to be something broken with the damage mobs deal. I dont know if they forgot to be "scaled" back because of the formula change you guys made with mobs 2+ levels being much harder or what, but the dungeons are clearly broken..
I took two screen shots of just two examples of these. I have EASILY enough gear score(item level). I have 100k HP I have a Transcendent Weapon enchant I have the "empowered" black ice versions of the PVP gear (meaning rank 5 black ice upgraded them) so gear isnt the issue, I have perfect Negation even... and over 100k HP....
Look at the two images 1 is from Epic Layer of Lostmouth, the 1st boss throws an undodgeable spear at you as you run in towards him as his ranged attack.... It ONE shots you.
If you are close to him his attack ONE shots you and I am NOT talking "RED" area here, these are the basic attack.......
Another is Temple of Spider (which we got to the last boss and was IMPOSSIBLE) This is one of the first mobs and he hit be for over 1 MILLION damage?!? Again this isnt "RED" area - check for yourself the name of the attack.
The boss (Spider) was only even reachable because we ran through the entire dungeon without killing. Ill gladly share how we did what we did, if these issues are addressed, otherwise I dont see these dungeons even being possible without the help of some glitches.... Which still kept us from finishing Spider and we had to skip most of the dungeon to even get to TRY the boss.
We were able to finish ELOL thanks to some bugs, we couldnt even finish spider. The small spiders and even the blade masters just 1 shot our players with <100k HP. ONE SHOT, this isnt a "skill" issue its just broken....
EDIT: This type of "difficulty scaling" didnt work for Diablo 3 when they released "Inferno" mode. All it did was gate content to certain classes and certain builds and allow other select classes/builds/groups TO be able to do it. Right now its not about skill its all about having X group using X encounters. Where if you happen to be Y group, even if you use X encounters you cant win.
Diablo 3 did the same thing, half the classes could beat Inferno, the other half couldnt. D3 realized this was wrong and nerfing the mob damage DIDNT make it easier for the classes that already COULD do it, but it DID make it more fair for classes like the D3 Barbarian who COULDNT do the content earlier...
Nerfing the PVE damage wont make it easier for people that are already doing it, in fact itll be nearly the same. GF+DC(OP) will be buff bots for the group while CW controls the mobs.
All that it allows you to do though is maybe sub in a GWF tank or not be FORCED to rely on a CW to perma control groups because their damage is too high...
I took two screen shots of just two examples of these. I have EASILY enough gear score(item level). I have 100k HP I have a Transcendent Weapon enchant I have the "empowered" black ice versions of the PVP gear (meaning rank 5 black ice upgraded them) so gear isnt the issue, I have perfect Negation even... and over 100k HP....
Look at the two images 1 is from Epic Layer of Lostmouth, the 1st boss throws an undodgeable spear at you as you run in towards him as his ranged attack.... It ONE shots you.
If you are close to him his attack ONE shots you and I am NOT talking "RED" area here, these are the basic attack.......
Another is Temple of Spider (which we got to the last boss and was IMPOSSIBLE) This is one of the first mobs and he hit be for over 1 MILLION damage?!? Again this isnt "RED" area - check for yourself the name of the attack.
The boss (Spider) was only even reachable because we ran through the entire dungeon without killing. Ill gladly share how we did what we did, if these issues are addressed, otherwise I dont see these dungeons even being possible without the help of some glitches.... Which still kept us from finishing Spider and we had to skip most of the dungeon to even get to TRY the boss.
We were able to finish ELOL thanks to some bugs, we couldnt even finish spider. The small spiders and even the blade masters just 1 shot our players with <100k HP. ONE SHOT, this isnt a "skill" issue its just broken....
EDIT: This type of "difficulty scaling" didnt work for Diablo 3 when they released "Inferno" mode. All it did was gate content to certain classes and certain builds and allow other select classes/builds/groups TO be able to do it. Right now its not about skill its all about having X group using X encounters. Where if you happen to be Y group, even if you use X encounters you cant win.
Diablo 3 did the same thing, half the classes could beat Inferno, the other half couldnt. D3 realized this was wrong and nerfing the mob damage DIDNT make it easier for the classes that already COULD do it, but it DID make it more fair for classes like the D3 Barbarian who COULDNT do the content earlier...
Nerfing the PVE damage wont make it easier for people that are already doing it, in fact itll be nearly the same. GF+DC(OP) will be buff bots for the group while CW controls the mobs.
All that it allows you to do though is maybe sub in a GWF tank or not be FORCED to rely on a CW to perma control groups because their damage is too high...
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2) Did you try to use a pala tank and a somehow decent dc ? Pala Tank has amazing group survival buffs as well as self protection. --> temporary hp... of 300k and more
3) That drider should not be tanked at all but getting damaged by ranges.
btw much worse are the enemies which hit you but you cant see it . For example the little spiders in epic spider. If you see three of them shooting once your entire party is pretty much done.
Also when trying to kill last boss in epic spider somehow when reaching her second form she will instantly wipe the entire party but there is absolutely no indication of the source of dmg. Even the combat log does not show any dmg at all. You are just dead. Really strange.
I dont think that pvp gear is the best gear to go into T2 dungeon as of now. But thats just a temporary solution as of right now you need 100k hp + to at least take 1 or 2 hits before you die.
ps. i forgot to mention that our pala tank has a standard DR of 60% and with aura of protection and truth he gets another 25%.
Unfortunatly it still is not enough to even take 1 hit from a mob group without a gwf jumping in first with avalance of steel....
So sthm. definetly seems broken. Or the auras from the pala does not work because it doesnt show any difference at all in the stat sheet when using the auras.
The damage is broken.
You cant argue about that.
When you get oneshotted there is no skill no balance nothing.
I feel bad for gwf hr gf and sw.
I succeded to finish every t1 ..no way to finish t2s.
I may be able to glitch grey wolf and call it a day. Ofc this is not how it should end...
</sarcasm>
I'm getting tired of that sort of response. We should be able to continue playing the game as WE choose, not as the devs choose.
But hey.. they control everything, right? Not the hundreds of thousands of players who are the ones who control the money, because idiots will continue to spend money on this.. but they doon't realize that a polished dog <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> is still a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> nonetheless.
"...I grab my wiener and charge!" - ironzerg79
Just tried to say that rainbow party without dc or tank is not a good way to go into any of the reworked dungeons.
oneshots only occur in the t2 even with all dr buffs on. T1 on the other hand is doable with good tank and dc as well as timing and cc. And btw u can leave out last boss and kill only first 2 bosses in t2 dungeons because they drop epic gear sometimes as well (that includes armor too).
+
try do this:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omelette
=
M6
and unstoppable is sometimes not activating when hitting tab button like hell even with full bar. Then its no usable for like 1 or 2 min at all which makes some boss encounter a real pain in the ***.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Thank you for making me cry tears of blood....
Still laughing! hahahahahahahah epic!!! epic!!
Now my friend here's what's gonna happen: As a reward for taking the time and effort to inform the community of these bugs,you'll get banned for admitting to exploiting glitches and bugs in order to get to the final Boss. I think Cryptic is more than capable of doing something like that. It's the very definition of loosing sight of the forest for the tree.
sadly hes right better edit your post dude fast.
Well its not really an exploit, they dont really "block off" campfires so we just suicide ran to the next each time...
Also there are some feats/abilities and sets that area dealing more damage than it seems they are supposed to allowing us to actually have the DPS to finish the bosses.
In Spider the first boss is squishy, the second we just tried to burn and they didnt block off the boss so you can just respawn and run back before the party wipes (chain die run back to keep boss active). And again, run past all mobs, get to campfire and die, wait till despawn etc.
The only "magic" behind all this is the DPS required which again, its not an exploit just some feats that seem to deal alot more than they should, ill leave it at that, so there is zero "exploits" used...
Totally reasonable.
This is just silly bro,
1) We tried multiple group combos, had a deal DC + GF tank in 1, we didnt have enough DPS to kill the boss thats the entire point. Why? Because the DPS the boss spits out, its like a DPS race and it REQUIRES classes like TR that can "perma" stay alive and never die along with class like HR who can fox shift and eat an entire 200k+ hit... You actually CANT run a traditional group because you either dont have the CC to kill mobs or the DPS to kill bosses.
2) We had a GF who ran Knights Valor and literally died nearly instantly since he would take half the damage of a hit on 2 different targets. So he refused to run KV because each time just got 1 shot. Dont have a Pally tank, so thats your suggestion? MUST have a Pally tank because GF tank cant cut it? You really just dont know what you are talking about dude... A GWF IN sprint + Unstoppable MAXED DR at 80% gets 1 shot from hits like this, a FEW times I actually got lucky and snuck by with <10k HP because ONE hit was 90k after I mitigated it down. A DC cant heal that, potions give you 10k, so we were all spamming stone of healths for full HP. Not to mention 1 run of ELOL or this Spider run for instance took about 40 injury kits, just so you get that perspective...
3) Drider was not getting tanked, you should try this it comes in a pack of like 10+ mobs. Each of the mobs hits for about 40-50k so I wasnt even close to it, just out of nowhere bam. 1 mil. There is ZERO ZERO ZERO "gear/skill/L2P" you can do to excuse that. I am 1000% behind making "red" 1 shot you, if it were a RED attack I dont care if it doesn 1 trillion damage, but a BASIC hit for 1 mil? You can take a GF+Pally+DC and itll 1 shot any combo you try and use.
PVP gear versus PVE gear is again a moot point, stop making up these false arguements. The difference in HP is negligable. Even stacking full rank 12s, and PVE defensive gear you might get what 10k more HP? How is that going to make ANY difference? Optimal? NO PVP is not optimal but its the Ilevel 137 gear and better than MOST PVE gear especially because I have the tanky set so its pure defensive. PVE gear wont make ANY difference, since the PVE gear is actually LESS tanky as it doesnt provide BOTH DEfense AND DEflect.
Yes - that was our strat for bosses:
1) GWF runs in AoS, eats first boss hit. Once landed, HR gives dodge buff to eat the second. In one of our runs we had a DC for perma dailiy due to bugged OH, but ya was constant 1-2 shot, rez, and hope we have enough DPS to kill boss.
Tanks are a moot point, DC is a moot point its pure DPS race on all bosses. You can eat 2-3 hits with BOTH your lives (like pre and post rez) and HR dodge eats some hits so thats basically all you have.
Its just stupid.
If only it was a L2P issue, I would be GLAD for this mod and cry my way to the top. Give me ONE group that managed to finish either TOS or CC, I want to see a vid, I want to see mechanics, I want to see playstyle. Tactics can only cover so much, this is BS and should get toned down asap. No average geared people, as skilled as they are, will be able to finish it. I have yet to get past GWD's first boss, it's hilarious. And Tiamat? lol. Don't get me started. Gotta love when people go all "you're playing it wrong". See you hotshots finishing CC, aight?
The Holy Crusaders guild leader ♚ Mod 10 PVE Destroyer GWF guide ♚ Founding member of the Relentless Alliance
example: you have 100k of hp and a enemy hit you by a 132% of the target life. if you have, for example, 34 ac, you will take 132% of your hp-10k (2ac X 5k).
132k-10k=122k damage, and that damage will be mitigated by your dr and party protections.
if you have 20ac and receive a damage equal to 132% of your hp, this balance due of 12% over your 20ac will be 60k piercing+132% of your hp (if you have 100k hp=132k damage to be mitigated by your dr+ 60k piercing).
partys will be balanced w/o turn the things so easy or over buff the claases.
solved the problem to a historical solution... i guess,my math is horrible.
ps: leave some enemies hitting by the normal damage (moderate) because, w/o that, some defenders dont will need have big amounts of hp.,, do that in red areas for example
No class is outdated... that is totally absurd to even say that. We all just need to get used to playing differently. But yes... the damage is a bit off the scale. And a GF that knows what they are doing is just as good or better than a paladin tank.
I see it like this. We have all just come from being able to run and beat any dungeon in the game... easily. Even Epic Dread Vault became beatable. Dungeons became speed runs. This is part culture shock, part needing to learn to play differently, and yes... I think part a bit too much damage from the mobs.
Pandora's Misfits Guild Leader
This is coming from a GF that helped take down Valindra with a Healing SW.
I am sure that anyone who had a higher gear score... could do it... blah blah blah. We just ran a REGULAR t1 VT... everyone was getting one-shot. If it wasn't for soulforged we would not have been in the game. We made it to V and wiped 3 times. Everything hits hard... not just the bosses. I do not see that anyone would be able to finish it... with the considered minimum 1600 Item Level for entrance. The average for all of us was about 2300. We had the DPS, and the tank... and the heals.
When not just the boss hits for 100k+ and the tank has just over that, what is the DPS supposed to do?
I would like to see a video of a group that finishes, until then... anyone who says that they have killed everything in a t2, let alone a t1, are lying. PERIOD...
Words are worthless... action is for millionaires.
Hint: you won't get killed in one hit if your tank is well built and the cleric isn't an incompetent righteous willing to buff stuff to zerg the content.
"If I can't do it it's not doable" is a pretty poor mentality. You may want to take a look at the artifact page on the AH, therre are green ones and they're mine. That was my loot. Feel free to buy it if you can't finish the content because you're not good enough. :cool:
+1 to diogene0...some of us are farming these dungeons already and would prefer for the difficulty to be kept in tact, it increases our profit margins
LOL you guys....
Ive done all the 1600 item level dungeons those are a joke. We ran a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> pug group through VT and never wiped once.
Try the t2 "2000 item level" dungeons. I just ran GWD today got to the last boss but our TR had to leave. Was it hard? Ya, but its not hard becasue you need gear - no level of gear will help you.
Its not hard because you need "skill" - no amount of skill helps yoou avoid regular HITS for 80%+ of your HP and from stronger mobs 200k+. I can be IN unstoppable AND sprinting and get hit by two mobs at once with a basic melee attack for 60k each (happened today in GWD) and I died instantly. No "red" just basic attack. As a GWF... Melee Class, we have no dodge.
It would be one thing if this was out "gearable" meaning if we WERE in lvl 60 gear with 40kish HP then ya I can see damage of hits being 20k each that would insta kill a lvl 60 geared player being justified because that would only be 40% of my HP at 70. But its not. I am HP stacking, Radiant stacking, Rings with HP stacking over 100k HP. Full DEFENSIVE GEAR with 45% deflect as a GWF.... Doesnt matter, you get 1-2 shot instantly.
TRs and HRs have a much easier time from the groups we have run but still suffer the same "WTF" moments. However HRs can get a free "dodge" every ~10 sseconds combined with immunity frames you CAN dodge these attacks.
But think about that, "dodging" wouldnt tell you ANYTHING about if its scaled correctly because if it deals 1 damage or 100k damage its the same thing during dodge = 0.
Its VERY VERY easy to see the damage needs to be scaled down MASSIVELY. Not to make it easier - im not saying "make it easier" I am saying "make it REQUIRE GEAR AND SKILL" however no gear and no skill is going to let you take a BASIC attack of 200k from a boss. Its NOT an "animation red zone" you just need to avoid.
A gwf (for instance) HAS to get close to DEAL damage but cant take ONE hit from a mob? CLEARLY CLEARLY its overboard.
Now what are the ranges I think things should ROUGHLY hit?
T1: Basic attacks 10-15k NET is "fine" and hard. "RED" zone hits should be 40-50k "net" meaning itll take out about 80%+ your HP if your caught in red.
T2: Basic hits of 20k+ would be fine. And "RED" hitting for 80k+ is fine because its avoidable.
What do we see?
T1: Dont care its easy enough with random 1 shot damage spikes.
T2: BASIC hits for 60-80k NET on normal trash mobs and some over 100k net. Bosses 200-300k NET... RED attacks: 200k+.
I mean you literally cannot take ONE hit, ONE! Thats not "skill" thats just pure dumb.
Elol - done this about 4-5 times last night.
TOS - got to final boss, got her xformed.
VT- PUGd this multiple times.
GWD - got to final boss, got him xformed, TR had to leave.
Noone is saying it "cant be done" because it can, but making the damage REASONABLE doesnt change this at all, it just alleviates the frustration of unavoidable 1 shots.
Were going to try CC tonight and see how far we can get.... But again, "can it be done" is not the question that should be asked, its "is this balanced"
Basically the BEST way to clear these dungeons is perma CC them, TR smoke bomb, HR "dodge" GWF stuns and CW sing so they NEVER attack. Thats how we do it, if they get ONE attack off someone either SFs or is dead needing a revive. Is it doable? Yes - due to CC, dodges which show ZERO "bearing" on if the content is scaled correctly. You can perma CC a mob that hits for 1 bajillion damage till death, doesnt mean its WAI or SHOULD be that way.... All that will do is force people back into the 3 CW groups because control > ALLLLL. If you never have to take a hit, you dont need tank or healers if you perma control....
Bosses CANT even be tanked because they 1 shot anyways so the best groups are just made of TR/HR/CWs... Why? Because those classes can do their job regardless of the damage the mobs deal. Its a moot point to them.
Take a DC,GF,OP,GWF,SW though and you just get 1 shot easily.
Well then rely on your cleric and don't take a pug but an experienced one? Two hits in 0.1s is very unlikely, and even then a good faithful cleric can save your *** if he did things properly. He could bring you to the DR cap, that's the first step. Then timing healing with animations and red is another way to make it work. If everything else fails, there's the gift of faith. Back to full health instantly, and you'd need 3 undodgeable 80% hits to die, which means adds. And if you're harassed by adds, blame the non oppressor CW unable to handle some aggro and not doing control properly.
There are a few fun but unfair things, like the laser beam from lostmauth's eyes, because it's undodgeable, but they're the exception, not the rule. If the GWF is (again) the only class demanding a nerf, then I suggest the devs rework a bit feats like bravery to make it give more DR/HPs/deflect at the cost of a severe damage reduction, like 20%. That's just a random idea though, and the design team will be more creative, but making the game not fun because one class has to heavily rely on support from other classes isn't my idea of 'balance'.
And yes Pala tank can survive all the hits but its extremely hard and needs godlike timing with his daily and encounter skills as well as very good timed cc during downtime. As for gf tank i already said its not a proper tank for t2.
Atm its like having 1 pala tank 1 reallllllly good dc and 2 cws with perma cc playstyle as must have combo to even legit reaching the final boss but what then comes is like a massacre. Tos bos dealing random auto attack without warning for 200k+ so that an entire party wipes but the combat log shows no dmg received at all. Cragmire boss dealing 3-4 mill dmg spikes/random attacks.
Ya basically the "solution" currently is just to perma CC. Thats why people are saying its not an issue.
Well a melee DPS character with no immunity frames... WTF are you supposed to do.
Reducing the mob damage even to 1/10th its current value isnt going to make it any easier TBH. Itll just mean they hit for 20-30k which will still 3 shot you instead of 2, but now you can actually PREVENT it.
10%, you're joking, right? The purpose is exactly that: forcing people to bring skilled controllers, tanks and healers, not to faceroll the content again with glass cannon builds because it doesn't hurt that much.