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Let's get rid of scaling up to lvl 70!?

colonelwingcolonelwing Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
edited April 2015 in General Discussion (PC)
Characters below lvl 70, should not be allowed to enter Sharandar, the dread ring, Icewind dale, the well of dragons, etc. and possible future endgame content/zones/skirmishes/dungeons, etc. for obvious reasons.

Even though this is a suggestion to the development team, feel free to discuss pros and cons.
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  • nehemiah217nehemiah217 Member Posts: 181 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Characters below lvl 70, should not be allowed to enter Sharandar, the dread ring, Icewind dale, the well of dragons, etc. and possible future endgame content/zones/skirmishes/dungeons, etc. for obvious reasons.

    Even though this is a suggestion to the development team, feel free to discuss pros and cons.

    Discussing!

    I'm actually for the opposite stance on this. Keep all of the campaigns at lvl 60 as they were, but instead scale them up from lvl 60 rather than down from 70. That would make them a bit more difficult the higher you go, yet, would still allow the content to be utilized by someone who is 60 just as it has been done in the past. This wouldnt pose the balancing issues that we now have, it wouldn't hurt pre-60 players, nor would it force lvl60 players who were not done with boons/campaigns to suddenly stop what they've been doing, go out and gain 10 more levels, and then come back so they can continue what they were doing the previous day.

    It would also create a bit more 60+ content, would be less blatantly and boringly grindy if you were actually making xp, and, it would also remain challenging if it were scaling from 60-70 accurately.

    Without scaling, players that either haven't done the campaigns (is, never made it to lvl 60) or weren't finished with them have to go, and do a very limited and buggy selection of quests until they hit lvl 70. This would (and has) left a bad taste in the mouths of both mentioned groups.

    Add new lvl 70 campaigns rather than just raising the levels of the existing ones. Real incentive to get there and real incentive to actually play. The way they currently are (and have been) makes them very dull without actual progression. It's supposed to be about the race as a whole, rather than finishing the race only so you can run a few more laps while everyone else is drinking Gatorade. The idea of "hurry up and get to the max level so you can check out XYZ content" just breeds dissatisfaction, and hence, why all of the mechanics of these campaigns (boring repetitive quests, RNG, etc) are so heavily criticized. Why make the end of the game quickly attainable and then unnecessarily mundane?

    I remember the first person in Asheron's Call to reach the max level (126 at the time), server wide messages went "ding" and everyomg across all of the different servers were in total and absolute awe of his accomplishments, because it took him two years to do it. Time the Enchanter, was his name, IIRC.... It was literally a massive accomplishment.
  • colonelwingcolonelwing Member Posts: 1,448 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    -snip, decent stuff no worries.-

    Well i'm suggesting this, because when i was levelling up (i'm still only lvl 64 on my main) i have seen many, many people getting killed so easily in the lvl 70 zones... i died myself, i wanted to actually 'feel', why people are complaining.. and i was almost one hit by a polar bear in IWD.

    Your suggestion/interpretation also makes sense, since it would not slow down the boon progress as much as my suggestion.

    Like i said, discuss - that way the developers can figure out a way to eventually end this misery, which in my opinion is the biggest flaw of mod 6, so far.


    Thanks for replying, may the black ice be with you.

  • bioshrikebioshrike Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,729 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Or they could use the "leveless" enemy mechanic, like they do for the various CTA event, (just put in a minimum level of 60 to enter the zones).
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  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    The issue with the leveless mechanic and with content where players get scaled down is that it ends up not providing the desired challenge, in pretty much the same fashion that being scaled up doesn't necessarily make you equal to the monsters you've supposedly been scaled up to.

    There's a reason why a CTA skirmish with a bunch of geared 60s has always been facerolling time, where the only limit on the run time is waiting out spawn delays.
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  • sockmunkeysockmunkey Member Posts: 4,622 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    bioshrike wrote: »
    Or they could use the "leveless" enemy mechanic, like they do for the various CTA event, (just put in a minimum level of 60 to enter the zones).

    I don't think that's an option. Something tells me they had issue making it work properly with level 70 characters and the stat curves. Its the only reason why they tossed the whole leveless system and implemented this new one of leveling up and down depending on the area. I mean, that represents a lot of extra work to replace a working system. There has to be a reason behind that.
  • bioshrikebioshrike Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,729 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    The issue with the leveless mechanic and with content where players get scaled down is that it ends up not providing the desired challenge, in pretty much the same fashion that being scaled up doesn't necessarily make you equal to the monsters you've supposedly been scaled up to.

    There's a reason why a CTA skirmish with a bunch of geared 60s has always been facerolling time, where the only limit on the run time is waiting out spawn delays.

    The difference is that the leveless enemy mechanic scales the enemies to you. Right now, leveling a player to 60 does not buff your equipment, thus you are still at a huge disadvantage.
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  • beckylunaticbeckylunatic Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 14,231 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Right, and that's also the problem with CTAs having been way too easy for geared 60s. Leveless enemies scale to you. They don't scale to your gear.

    Edit: Heh. CTA has been the same experience for the orcs that the level 60 players of today are experiencing when they go face off against powries. Turnabout is fair play. :p
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  • admiralah1admiralah1 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    I'm of the state of mind that scaling everything end-game up to 70 was a bad idea. There is a void of content between 60 and 70 now. Yes, there is the Elemental Evil repeatables, but grinding those things all the time gets very old very fast. All of the Epic dungeons are now gone too.

    They need to make a scale from 60 to 70 that integrates old content in a way that spreads it out over the 10 level gap. For example, epic dungeons that used to have gear scores of 5700-6800 should be spread out from level 60 to 68, with the lower ones being 60-63 or so, and a mid-tier from 64-67, and a higher tier from 68-70. Then have a few of them be truly epic dungeons that are level 70 only. Either that or make all of the dungeons have two versions, a 60-69 version which we'll call "Advanced", and the 70 only Epic. This was STO's approach to the increased level cap that game recently received.

    Likewise, the end-game campaign areas need to be scaled too. Progress them in a way that makes sense with the established story. Putting everything at level 70 just leaves a content gulf that is going to cause many players to quit the game once they get to the vacuum.
  • sliderhardcoresliderhardcore Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    sockmunkey wrote: »
    I don't think that's an option. Something tells me they had issue making it work properly with level 70 characters and the stat curves. Its the only reason why they tossed the whole leveless system and implemented this new one of leveling up and down depending on the area. I mean, that represents a lot of extra work to replace a working system. There has to be a reason behind that.

    Just as ihaveahies said "bad scaling" or wrong type of scaling ! Now the situation is you are not scaled/bolstered up to lvl 70, but in reality you are weakened down in the moment you step in such scaling area.
    Try this and see it yourself how all your power goes down instead of up !!!
    Quoting my post from another thread:
    "Edit: server is back online and i can quote real numbers for some real lvl 61 char how is "bolstered" down instead of up as they intended.
    Did only the easiest experiment normal lvl 61 char in PE vs port to Sharandar bugged "bolstering" to lvl 70
    Normal lvl 61 power 3987 points give 23% dmg bonus -> bugged scaling to lvl 70 in other side 4633 points give you only 11.6 % // Crit strike normal 3682 give you 19,2 % -> 4293 = only 10,7% // Recovery normal 2152 give 22,8 % -> after bugged scaling 2620 = only 13,1% // Def normal 1505 gives 7,8% dmg reduction -> bugged on other side 1840 gives only 4.6 % // Life S 493 gives 2,6% -> and again more points 560 gives less 1,4 %
    Is this looking to any of you as bolstering up to lvl 70 appropriate levels !? To me is weakening your char by 33-50 %, while the say "scaling up" and put the number 70 in top left corner = effectively drop all your power to something like lvl 50 and make fight lvl 71 mobs. This is against any logic, so must be really bugged and not working as intended. Or scaling up to 70 is a complete lie = scaling down in reality !"
  • trith1128trith1128 Member Posts: 49 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    My SW is Lv62 and decently geared. I went into dread ring last night.. and well. The first group of mobs I pulled basically one shotted me.. and I had nearly 40k hps.

    Lesson learned! Even tho they scale you to Lv70. With underrated gear on, you cant really do much at all!
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  • phoenix1021phoenix1021 Member Posts: 532 Arc User
    edited April 2015
    Scaling seems to only affect hp and weapon damage. The enemies just deal way too much damage is the real problem though, that needs to be toned down. I doubt its even doable with level 70 when one enemy can do 30k damage every few seconds and zombies jump you for 10k damage per hit in large numbers. One-shots are not a challenge, just frustrating.
    And if you close these areas up for <70 and keep the difficulty, we need a boon reset or at least deactivate the boons for levels 60-69.
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