I don't think I crit it just gave more value for some reason. Its been awhile so I'm not sure. But I don't remember getting all jazzed that it had a crit value ... I did however add 4 peridots in with it ... but those wouldn't be enough to make that big a difference. Possibly a bug when filling the other slots maybe? I don't have the time or the characters to repeat it multiple times so I don't know.
I can wait a long time for a 2xRP event to upgrade my new artifact weapon if I have to. I don't know why anyone would even attempt an upgrade without a double RP event in progress, unless they had very little to go or money was no object. I wouldn't put it passed them to find a way of blocking double RP bonuses for the new artifact weapons, though.
Artifact gear is totally optional. You DO NOT have to use it ... there is nothing written that says you HAVE to have BiS to be effective, its like computer hardware ... its more cost effective to be a generation behind ... sure you don't have the latest and greatest but frankly the latest and greatest computer hardware isn't usually leaps and bounds better than the generation before it ... often its 10 - 20% increase in efficiency at most which isn't typically noticeable with the human eye ... you'd have to run software that benchmarks in an artificial environment to see the difference via a SCORE that really does NOT translate into real world effect.
Moral of the story, if you don't like it then don't participate and stick with the friendlier options ... the black ice MH and OH are about as good as the artifact gear at purple. I believe there is even blue gear that you can get MH/OH wise that are as good if not better than your artifact MH/OH just minus extra slots and set bonus and probably class power buffs and such. But none of that makes you a good player that is just things to add a bit of a edge ... if the refining is too much stop it and use NON definable gear, it might not be top end but its close enough and if you even have a modicum of skill then it won't matter as you will still be competitive at least in PVE, PVP is broken and for wallet warriors only.
This is exactly why I have one toon, and only one toon with artifact weapons. All others are equipped with either Black Ice or Castle Never gear.
Had two posts deleted from this thread. All I said was that if you feel cheated as a consumer you really have the duty of writing the parent company and making your problem known to them.
The issue is not so much that better equipment eventually came out after a long period of time, drastically devaluing current equipment. The issue is better equipment is coming out very shortly after current equipment came out.
Regardless of real life or virtual, or anything- purchasing something that is almost immediately devalued is a very very poor choice for a customer to make. We have the reasonable expectation of fair play that what we purchase as BIS today will stay BIS or at least will not be substantially devalued until a reasonable amount of time has passed. How long that time is depends on the player base as a whole. The customers. But it is not unreasonable to expect BIS gear to stay BIS for about a year, or at least to not suffer more than a 25% devaluation in less than a years time.
People say games they purchased in 1989 for $35 are now worth only $2.99 and that somehow this 26 year period is equivalent to the roughly 4 month period at which NWO gear suffers am 80% devaluation. Ridiculous.
Releasing equipment that costs a fair amount of money to make bis only to depreciate it by 80% within a few months is not what most people would consider fair play and is something that most reasonable people would consider a violation of the good faith and trust of the customer.
Of particular note is this portion: "Artifact Weapons will also retain approximately 75% of their refinement progress."
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
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kaiserschmarrnMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 390
Artifact gear is totally optional. You DO NOT have to use it ... there is nothing written that says you HAVE to have BiS to be effective, its like computer hardware ...
I suggest you log into Preview and check out the new up-ramped difficulty in all the quest zones, but especially in IWD and WoD.
And when you are done please come back here and tell us again that artifact gear is optional.
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bigredbrentMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 155Arc User
I didnt know this would be such a hot topic but considering what it is about I guess It figures. The RIGHT thing to do is at least for a limited time after Mod 6 comes out..say 30 days..Any old artifact weapons and or gear dropped into the new you get a 100% return on the RP that was in the old applied to the new.. This is the right way it should be done. This way its a fair handshake and done with.
This would only be a band-aid fix until the next time this becomes an issue. This is a problem that needs to be nipped in the bud instead of a quick fix that would only solve the problem for now.
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bioshrikeMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,729Arc User
The thing is they didn't clarify yet what they meant. A lot of people speculate that what they mean is 75% = green>blue>purple and missing orange = 3/4 = 75% progress which would be extremely misleading. Considering the purple is level 48 which is 40% rp returns, it looks like this is the case.
I interpreted it as meaning, (using made-up numbers here), that if your artifact had 100 refinement points in it, when you go to upgrade a new artifact, you get 75 of those refinement points to apply to that new artifact...
<::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::::)xxxo <::::::::::::)xxxxxxxx(:::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> oxxx(::::::::::::::> "Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
Just wrote that in the parallel poll thread, too...
A compromise solution that would make sense and harmonize with the game's internal logic: When using an unprefixed Item to upgrade the Greater version you could get that 2x RP that one would get in refining enchantments or runestones.
Examples: Belt of Black Ice into Greater Belt of Black Ice => x2 RP. Belt of Black Ice into Greater Belt of Lathander => No bonus.
I didn't look it up in the tables, but there migght be some abuse-preventing limitation necessary - like bonus given only once per Greater item. But IIRC you should always make a slight loss that way. I didn't think through stuff like cascading the process on a double RP weekend etc., so the idea might be unfeasible...
While definitely not a fan of the ever growing RPifacts, a 40% return is better than nothing, and on a double RP weekend (which being a poor player I personally intend to wait for) I can get 80% back which sounds okay.
Also the fact that according to some posters even 40% back in the new artifact is going to be better than the old one helps to mitigate the pain....
Time is worth a LOT. No matter how you cut it, time is worth a LOT. If you spent X amount of time building your gear up, then it's worth something much more than money. Money, you can get back eventually. Time you will NEVER ever get back.
Use of your time is based on your priorities. It has no monetary value, but, as you said, you can never get back the time you already spent, so it has personal value to each person.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
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lonewolfmk1Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 137Arc User
edited March 2015
Right now id like the times back before artefact equipment was introduced. Would not just have saved myself from a huge strain on my wrist, shoving thousands upon thousands of peridots into those things but i would once again feel the joy of just finding a good piece of equipment and to be able to just put it on without above torture. And now i have to do it again all over, that, more than anything before, makes me wonder if mod 6 is a good time to call it quits.
All I want is they change the refining process and we can refine as many as we want instead of 5 slots at a time. Honestly that would be enough for me.
Hi everyone! I notice that there's been some confusion some material written in the refinement blog. The part that reads:
"Artifact Weapons will also retain approximately 75% of their refinement progress."
should have specified that it was refinement level rather than overall refinement points. The sentence has since been updated to:
"Artifact Weapons will also retain approximately 75% of their refinement level progress."
Hi everyone! I notice that there's been some confusion some material written in the refinement blog. The part that reads:
"Artifact Weapons will also retain approximately 75% of their refinement progress."
should have specified that it was refinement level rather than overall refinement points. The sentence has since been updated to:
"Artifact Weapons will also retain approximately 75% of their refinement level progress."
My deepest apologies for the confusion.
if you wanted to be really smart you would have said that it was an increase in stats overall...
glasscanon half full....
as a side note was the gaudy teal/ aquamarine mythical artifact color your idea?!?!? (reference to font color choice :PPPP)
OMG you mean to tell me that if I refine my lev 60 legendary into my lev 70 I get a better weapon with better stats and more room to grow? thats thievery!! I am just gonna cancel my sub to this game....
its like the other day I traded in my souped-up honda that i put a lot of time and money into and got an even better car that was faster and that wasnt souped-up I called the cops they robbed me....
ok all joking aside refinement is the devil and it needs to be phased out slowly ... or possibly shanked in the shower I am not picky
it takes too long all the drag and drop even if you have all the RP for it is ridiculous maybe a refine by stack instead of this 5 at a time thing? that is if it absolutely has to stay around
everything for GWF currently sucks for GWF... just thought that should go out there serioulsy con dex? we cant even get a primary stat? plus how many other classes cant buy their set artifact on the AH? I know one that cant its the GWFs eye of lathander... so we cant even go ok RNGesus doesnt love me so I will grind the ad to buy it from someone more lucky than I
Hi everyone! I notice that there's been some confusion some material written in the refinement blog. The part that reads:
"Artifact Weapons will also retain approximately 75% of their refinement progress."
should have specified that it was refinement level rather than overall refinement points. The sentence has since been updated to:
"Artifact Weapons will also retain approximately 75% of their refinement level progress."
My deepest apologies for the confusion.
What a freaking bs move. Seriously. You are basically deceiving players by saying that, because the progression in non linear. And your not that stupid for not considering that. You are intentional missleading people with this, because 75% sounds way better than 40%.
How low man, how low.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
Hi everyone! I notice that there's been some confusion some material written in the refinement blog. The part that reads:
"Artifact Weapons will also retain approximately 75% of their refinement progress."
should have specified that it was refinement level rather than overall refinement points. The sentence has since been updated to:
"Artifact Weapons will also retain approximately 75% of their refinement level progress."
My deepest apologies for the confusion.
Thanks for the clarification. 75% was definitely bigger than the 40% (points-wise) we had seen on test.
Considering 2 stacks of lesser res will give fairly similar stats to reinvesting the 20 stacks and losing 12, it's not really a good argument for something they specifically stated were long term items. Other games would just drop the item without needing all the rp bs. Drops should be earned not bought. If you want to use that argument then I'm going to say that the module costed me 12m AD per artifact gear since I could have sold those excess stacks. So In total I lost 48m in efficiency 1/2 modules later. Don't you see how that is a lot? Even with 2x rp that is 24m AD that could have been spent elsewhere whereas someone who didn't invest that into their items is better off. I know you made another post against it, but for different reasons and other people were serious and so my point still stands.
Another note would be that 50m AD would be $1000 in value.
I understand that you think you have been cheated or somthing but you havent. yes you could have saved all that RP for mod 6 but you didnt know there would be new artifact weapon in 2 mods when you got it so you got to use the best weapon in the game for 2 mods then instead of them just making all that obsolete they gave you a better weapon and yet you still think you still think you lost somthing?
if thats the case save up all your mod 6,7,8,9 dont buy any artifact stuff and in mod 10 when they up the level cap again and you get new artifact gear you can pump all you saved into that and then in mod 10 actually get to play then you will be even
did you complain when you got 3 artifacts pre mod 3 and in mod 3 they started giving them away like candy to anyone who had more than one lev 60 toon?
so you get the best weapon in the game for two mods ay lev 60 and when they up the level cap to 70 you take that weapon and put it into your new weapon you get and get the second best weapon in the game at lev 70... yea they sure pulled one over on you
look dont get me wrong I hate refining with a passion I am putting in a class action lawsuit to PWE for may carpal tunnel I got from dragging and dropping my way to legendary and I am not looking forward to doing more in mod 6 but dont act like they cheated you out of anything you are still getting a better item than you had period
so no you point stands about as well as a one legged dog on a treadmill covered in crisco
your argument boils down to this : I bought the best weapon in the game with RP and if I dont get the best weapon in the game when I am 10 levels higher then you ripped me off since I got the best weapon in mod 4 I deserve the best weapon in the game in mod 6 and 7 and 8 ect.
its like any MMO things lose value over time the 25 man heroic gear that you spent 4 hours a night every week to get gets replaced by questing greens the next expansion you put that 12 mil in that artifact gear because you wanted the best gear in the game well its not the best gear anymore but they wanna give you the 2nd to best gear in the new mod for it that is 10 levels higher and you think thats somehow costing you somthing? did you not use that weapon? did people not go oh wow he has the best weapon in the game?
I grinded my RP I did not spend a single AD on RP for my weapon ask anyone in my guild not only did I grind one to legendary I grinded another sword I used for PvP (sure strike) to rank 55 it took me 3 weekends total including the double RP weekend I spent the last 5 hours of the 2x rp weekend I heard the doubel RP weekend was gonna happen and I farmed with dragon horde enchants till my eyes bled and like I said dragged and dropped till I had carpal tunnel
you spent 50 mil in ad I spent a couple weekends grinding
I realized nothing not even legendary gear lasts forever.... you dropped a bunch of money on pixels in a game.
only person that pulled a fast one on you was you
I will reiterate I hate refining I think its the worst idea in this game and think it should be slowly removed but by no means do I think I got ripped off by new legendarys for a 10 level cap increase
Comments
I don't think I crit it just gave more value for some reason. Its been awhile so I'm not sure. But I don't remember getting all jazzed that it had a crit value ... I did however add 4 peridots in with it ... but those wouldn't be enough to make that big a difference. Possibly a bug when filling the other slots maybe? I don't have the time or the characters to repeat it multiple times so I don't know.
This is exactly why I have one toon, and only one toon with artifact weapons. All others are equipped with either Black Ice or Castle Never gear.
The issue is not so much that better equipment eventually came out after a long period of time, drastically devaluing current equipment. The issue is better equipment is coming out very shortly after current equipment came out.
Regardless of real life or virtual, or anything- purchasing something that is almost immediately devalued is a very very poor choice for a customer to make. We have the reasonable expectation of fair play that what we purchase as BIS today will stay BIS or at least will not be substantially devalued until a reasonable amount of time has passed. How long that time is depends on the player base as a whole. The customers. But it is not unreasonable to expect BIS gear to stay BIS for about a year, or at least to not suffer more than a 25% devaluation in less than a years time.
People say games they purchased in 1989 for $35 are now worth only $2.99 and that somehow this 26 year period is equivalent to the roughly 4 month period at which NWO gear suffers am 80% devaluation. Ridiculous.
Releasing equipment that costs a fair amount of money to make bis only to depreciate it by 80% within a few months is not what most people would consider fair play and is something that most reasonable people would consider a violation of the good faith and trust of the customer.
It gives the game and the brand a bad name.
the devs said in a discussion that its going up to 75% not 40% . i cant quote it nor do i have a link i apologize but im sure someone else does.
Of particular note is this portion: "Artifact Weapons will also retain approximately 75% of their refinement progress."
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
I suggest you log into Preview and check out the new up-ramped difficulty in all the quest zones, but especially in IWD and WoD.
And when you are done please come back here and tell us again that artifact gear is optional.
This would only be a band-aid fix until the next time this becomes an issue. This is a problem that needs to be nipped in the bud instead of a quick fix that would only solve the problem for now.
I interpreted it as meaning, (using made-up numbers here), that if your artifact had 100 refinement points in it, when you go to upgrade a new artifact, you get 75 of those refinement points to apply to that new artifact...
"Is it better to be feared or respected? I say, is it too much to ask for both?" -Tony Stark
Official NW_Legit_Community Forums
A compromise solution that would make sense and harmonize with the game's internal logic: When using an unprefixed Item to upgrade the Greater version you could get that 2x RP that one would get in refining enchantments or runestones.
Examples: Belt of Black Ice into Greater Belt of Black Ice => x2 RP. Belt of Black Ice into Greater Belt of Lathander => No bonus.
I didn't look it up in the tables, but there migght be some abuse-preventing limitation necessary - like bonus given only once per Greater item. But IIRC you should always make a slight loss that way. I didn't think through stuff like cascading the process on a double RP weekend etc., so the idea might be unfeasible...
When you click your link you see a picure of a level 60 mod5 artifact weapon on the left side and a level 48 mod6 artifact weapon on the right side.
Level
RP
60 (100%)
4,645,200 (100%)
48 (80%)
1,822,800 (40%)
45 (75%)
1,411,200 (30%)
(wiki)
So I think 80% is "approximately" 75%.
//Bellistor
So on a 2x weekend this means 150% RP? Cool story.
Also the fact that according to some posters even 40% back in the new artifact is going to be better than the old one helps to mitigate the pain....
Use of your time is based on your priorities. It has no monetary value, but, as you said, you can never get back the time you already spent, so it has personal value to each person.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Hi everyone! I notice that there's been some confusion some material written in the refinement blog. The part that reads:
"Artifact Weapons will also retain approximately 75% of their refinement progress."
should have specified that it was refinement level rather than overall refinement points. The sentence has since been updated to:
"Artifact Weapons will also retain approximately 75% of their refinement level progress."
My deepest apologies for the confusion.
if you wanted to be really smart you would have said that it was an increase in stats overall...
glasscanon half full....
as a side note was the gaudy teal/ aquamarine mythical artifact color your idea?!?!? (reference to font color choice :PPPP)
its like the other day I traded in my souped-up honda that i put a lot of time and money into and got an even better car that was faster and that wasnt souped-up I called the cops they robbed me....
it takes too long all the drag and drop even if you have all the RP for it is ridiculous maybe a refine by stack instead of this 5 at a time thing? that is if it absolutely has to stay around
everything for GWF currently sucks for GWF... just thought that should go out there serioulsy con dex? we cant even get a primary stat? plus how many other classes cant buy their set artifact on the AH? I know one that cant its the GWFs eye of lathander... so we cant even go ok RNGesus doesnt love me so I will grind the ad to buy it from someone more lucky than I
What a freaking bs move. Seriously. You are basically deceiving players by saying that, because the progression in non linear. And your not that stupid for not considering that. You are intentional missleading people with this, because 75% sounds way better than 40%.
How low man, how low.
Thanks for the clarification. 75% was definitely bigger than the 40% (points-wise) we had seen on test.
BUT, I'm not going to rehash this argument. The Elemental artifact weapons are better even at a 40% point investment level than the Dragon weapons. I made that argument here...not going to rehash it in this thread.
Once you acquire the new one, you'll be in a better spot...hopefully they're run a 2x RP weekend in May, or at the end of April, and you'll be fine.
I understand that you think you have been cheated or somthing but you havent. yes you could have saved all that RP for mod 6 but you didnt know there would be new artifact weapon in 2 mods when you got it so you got to use the best weapon in the game for 2 mods then instead of them just making all that obsolete they gave you a better weapon and yet you still think you still think you lost somthing?
if thats the case save up all your mod 6,7,8,9 dont buy any artifact stuff and in mod 10 when they up the level cap again and you get new artifact gear you can pump all you saved into that and then in mod 10 actually get to play then you will be even
did you complain when you got 3 artifacts pre mod 3 and in mod 3 they started giving them away like candy to anyone who had more than one lev 60 toon?
so you get the best weapon in the game for two mods ay lev 60 and when they up the level cap to 70 you take that weapon and put it into your new weapon you get and get the second best weapon in the game at lev 70... yea they sure pulled one over on you
look dont get me wrong I hate refining with a passion I am putting in a class action lawsuit to PWE for may carpal tunnel I got from dragging and dropping my way to legendary and I am not looking forward to doing more in mod 6 but dont act like they cheated you out of anything you are still getting a better item than you had period
so no you point stands about as well as a one legged dog on a treadmill covered in crisco
your argument boils down to this : I bought the best weapon in the game with RP and if I dont get the best weapon in the game when I am 10 levels higher then you ripped me off since I got the best weapon in mod 4 I deserve the best weapon in the game in mod 6 and 7 and 8 ect.
its like any MMO things lose value over time the 25 man heroic gear that you spent 4 hours a night every week to get gets replaced by questing greens the next expansion you put that 12 mil in that artifact gear because you wanted the best gear in the game well its not the best gear anymore but they wanna give you the 2nd to best gear in the new mod for it that is 10 levels higher and you think thats somehow costing you somthing? did you not use that weapon? did people not go oh wow he has the best weapon in the game?
you spent 50 mil in ad I spent a couple weekends grinding
I realized nothing not even legendary gear lasts forever.... you dropped a bunch of money on pixels in a game.
only person that pulled a fast one on you was you
I will reiterate I hate refining I think its the worst idea in this game and think it should be slowly removed but by no means do I think I got ripped off by new legendarys for a 10 level cap increase