More and more reason to fix the queue system so we can actually form parties to do this boss fight.
Fix what? The queue is working as intended.
They tried a system that allows parties to stay together and decided it was not a good idea for the game. They decided wrong, but that is the decision.
They tried a system that allows parties to stay together and decided it was not a good idea for the game.
And that is the problem right there. They didn't give us the chance to give it a go. Just decided it would be too elitist and left at that. They supposedly want us to play as groups but don't promote group play in their game at max lvl. Tiamat would at least be more fun running it as a guild group or at least partly. Of the countless Tiamat runs I did I can't remember even one of them being remotely fun with a 24 pugs.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Of the countless Tiamat runs I did I can't remember even one of them being remotely fun with a 24 pugs.
I've had quite a few fun Tiamats. Of course, I've had plenty of miserable fails too, but they make the successes taste all the sweeter. The best ones are where you get to the first head, the health bar ticks down nicely and then someone says "stop" in chat and (this is the crucial bit) *most* folk move on to the next head. That "stop point" point is called early enough to allow for some folk not noticing, not listening or not understanding. By the time you get back to the clerics you already know that you've won, barring a disconnect.
A queueing system would make it more controllable but I think it would also lead to elitist behaviour, and you just know that soon the bar of "acceptable" GS would be stupidly high: 14K? 16K? Higher? I'm very interested to see how that encounter changes in mod 6.
Oh, and BTW, you mean "25 pugs". In Tiamat, you are a pug too.... ;p
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
And that is the problem right there. They didn't give us the chance to give it a go. Just decided it would be too elitist and left at that. They supposedly want us to play as groups but don't promote group play in their game at max lvl. Tiamat would at least be more fun running it as a guild group or at least partly. Of the countless Tiamat runs I did I can't remember even one of them being remotely fun with a 24 pugs.
depending on the time/day of the week, legit can get about 10-12 max party members, with that many its usually a 2 rounder.
But weekends are much tougher and #s will get down to the single digits at times.
BTW legit isnt elitists nonsense where everyone runs with max gear, which basically shows you that this instance is doable with average gear when you actually know that that 20k gear score is worthless compared to a properly built , proper set , proper enchant at 17k.
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lirithielMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 2,482Arc User
BTW legit isnt elitists nonsense where everyone runs with max gear, which basically shows you that this instance is doable with average gear when you actually know that that 20k gear score is worthless compared to a properly built , proper set , proper enchant at 17k.
You misunderstand. I never suggested that legit was elitist. I run with them all the time since I joined the channel a couple of months back. We generally win every time unless I missed the legit window or we get mass disconnections or one of the heads (black I'm looking at you) bugs out. Still it's not the same as running it with friends and/or guildies. Winning doesn't always equal fun either.
Our pain is self chosen.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
BTW legit isnt elitists nonsense where everyone runs with max gear, which basically shows you that this instance is doable with average gear when you actually know that that 20k gear score is worthless compared to a properly built , proper set , proper enchant at 17k.
FWI, you know, that there are properly build 20k+ players with proper sets, enchants, companions etc, that do significant more dps, than their 17k counterparts. I prefer a 17k HV CW or a HP DC to a 20k CW or DC with draconic templar gear on any given day, but likewise I prefer the 20k+ HV CW or HP DC to their 17k counterparts. Combined with this 3k+ GS comes, with the right build, higher HP, dps and LL, resulting in a very much higher surviveability. I have never seen a 17k player with leg. gear, DC artefact, lantern, epic blink dog, erynie etc., but some 20k+ PVE players with beforementioned gear/ companions.
Not everyone with 20k+ GS is a GS pusher sacrificeing group utility for GS.
They tried a system that allows parties to stay together and decided it was not a good idea for the game. They decided wrong, but that is the decision.
Yeah I think its time to build a Que system for Tiamat. Get rid of the "you have to be at the gate" thing. Allow a party of 5 to que up for it and accept it when it pops - from ANYWHERE.
This significantly increases the success rate and decreases the frustration rate. Isnt the point of MMOs to get online and play with your friends? We can que for any other type of encounter, given it takes 25 players to do this, its not as if you can REALLY get a full premade to go in and do it. Especially given the very small Que window.
Either way the solo-Q system they have needs to change.
Maybe now players will attempt to take on Tiamat the way it was meant to be done - 5/5. I was never and still am not a fan of this braindead zerg tactic.
It's not braindead at all. Without being able to queue up with premade distributed groups, there is no way to guarantee a proper kill 5/5.
The reason the zerg works is the stacking of buffs and debuffs. If you have everyone or even half on one head you usually get enough of the debuffs and buffs.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
FWI, you know, that there are properly build 20k+ players with proper sets, enchants, companions etc, that do significant more dps, than their 17k counterparts. I prefer a 17k HV CW or a HP DC to a 20k CW or DC with draconic templar gear on any given day, but likewise I prefer the 20k+ HV CW or HP DC to their 17k counterparts. Combined with this 3k+ GS comes, with the right build, higher HP, dps and LL, resulting in a very much higher surviveability. I have never seen a 17k player with leg. gear, DC artefact, lantern, epic blink dog, erynie etc., but some 20k+ PVE players with beforementioned gear/ companions.
Not everyone with 20k+ GS is a GS pusher sacrificeing group utility for GS.
Im not saying that a properly built 20k doesnt outperform a properly built 17k..
Sorry yes gear score bias can go both ways. But I see so many people just pushing gear score that enter, its counter productive.
those gear channels are ridiculous as well, it can promote that behavior.
I dont know how tiamat will be going foward, I suspect that once we get our higher gear (ill be in pvp gear probably for my main 3 I go to tiamat with, and a mixture of perfect/trancendent/pure enchants we will be ok.)
Im not saying that a properly built 20k doesnt outperform a properly built 17k..
Sorry yes gear score bias can go both ways. But I see so many people just pushing gear score that enter, its counter productive.
those gear channels are ridiculous as well, it can promote that behavior.
I dont know how tiamat will be going foward, I suspect that once we get our higher gear (ill be in pvp gear probably for my main 3 I go to tiamat with, and a mixture of perfect/trancendent/pure enchants we will be ok.)
The converse is you don't use those channels and end up in an instance with 10k-13K people with bad builds, bad gear and not knowing how to play. Even 1 full group of properly geared/played 20ks will not make up for that ineptitude.
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silverkeltMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,235Arc User
It's not braindead at all. Without being able to queue up with premade distributed groups, there is no way to guarantee a proper kill 5/5.
The reason the zerg works is the stacking of buffs and debuffs. If you have everyone or even half on one head you usually get enough of the debuffs and buffs.
WE will have less buffs in total though, as Hp, the draconics (dc/gwf stack) and HV are gone or will be soon enough.
So basically we need people to upgrade perfect plague fires and perfect terrors to higher levels to get those buffs back (set gear being replaced with enchantment basically)
Once done it will adjust things back down to reasonable levels. (those two stacked will reduce damage as well, if vorpal is given like a 10 debuff on power on top of that, we are talking about a massive reduction of damage in total)
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited March 2015
I'm glad I have no reason to do Tiamat, IWD, or WoD. That last boon isn't even worth getting now, let alone in mod 6.
I'm glad I have no reason to do Tiamat, IWD, or WoD. That last boon isn't even worth getting now, let alone in mod 6.
what you mean not worth getting the boons got buffed like mad
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[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited March 2015
They're not worth farming all those books. I've been farming ESoT and ELoL for 2 modules without seeing a book. Nothing is worth that RNG.
Is the consensus that it's not possible or only that it's hard?
Hard to know for sure at this point. It's not like there have been a lot of attempts.
My suspicion is that it will be really, really hard and likely only will be completed by really, really good instances. In the rest people will be butchered and will fail hard.
Hard to know for sure at this point. It's not like there have been a lot of attempts.
My suspicion is that it will be really, really hard and likely only will be completed by really, really good instances. In the rest people will be butchered and will fail hard.
I'm afraid to say that I have to agree with this consensus based on the data gathered so far and current forced pugging of Tiamat. If we could enter with teams, that'd be one thing, but the current system won't work.
onegaki101Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 327Arc User
edited March 2015
The problem I see with Tiamat is its purpose. OH artifact will be given to us. Neck/belt can be farmed in WoD.
If it is for the last two boons, most have either not bother with it, gotten it already, or recently started. Only reason I can think of is that the set from tiamat might be BiS.
Comments
Fix what? The queue is working as intended.
They tried a system that allows parties to stay together and decided it was not a good idea for the game. They decided wrong, but that is the decision.
Sci-fi author: The Gods We Make, The Gods We Seek, and Ji-min
And that is the problem right there. They didn't give us the chance to give it a go. Just decided it would be too elitist and left at that. They supposedly want us to play as groups but don't promote group play in their game at max lvl. Tiamat would at least be more fun running it as a guild group or at least partly. Of the countless Tiamat runs I did I can't remember even one of them being remotely fun with a 24 pugs.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
I've had quite a few fun Tiamats. Of course, I've had plenty of miserable fails too, but they make the successes taste all the sweeter. The best ones are where you get to the first head, the health bar ticks down nicely and then someone says "stop" in chat and (this is the crucial bit) *most* folk move on to the next head. That "stop point" point is called early enough to allow for some folk not noticing, not listening or not understanding. By the time you get back to the clerics you already know that you've won, barring a disconnect.
A queueing system would make it more controllable but I think it would also lead to elitist behaviour, and you just know that soon the bar of "acceptable" GS would be stupidly high: 14K? 16K? Higher? I'm very interested to see how that encounter changes in mod 6.
Oh, and BTW, you mean "25 pugs". In Tiamat, you are a pug too.... ;p
depending on the time/day of the week, legit can get about 10-12 max party members, with that many its usually a 2 rounder.
But weekends are much tougher and #s will get down to the single digits at times.
BTW legit isnt elitists nonsense where everyone runs with max gear, which basically shows you that this instance is doable with average gear when you actually know that that 20k gear score is worthless compared to a properly built , proper set , proper enchant at 17k.
You misunderstand. I never suggested that legit was elitist. I run with them all the time since I joined the channel a couple of months back. We generally win every time unless I missed the legit window or we get mass disconnections or one of the heads (black I'm looking at you) bugs out. Still it's not the same as running it with friends and/or guildies. Winning doesn't always equal fun either.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
FWI, you know, that there are properly build 20k+ players with proper sets, enchants, companions etc, that do significant more dps, than their 17k counterparts. I prefer a 17k HV CW or a HP DC to a 20k CW or DC with draconic templar gear on any given day, but likewise I prefer the 20k+ HV CW or HP DC to their 17k counterparts. Combined with this 3k+ GS comes, with the right build, higher HP, dps and LL, resulting in a very much higher surviveability. I have never seen a 17k player with leg. gear, DC artefact, lantern, epic blink dog, erynie etc., but some 20k+ PVE players with beforementioned gear/ companions.
Not everyone with 20k+ GS is a GS pusher sacrificeing group utility for GS.
Yeah I think its time to build a Que system for Tiamat. Get rid of the "you have to be at the gate" thing. Allow a party of 5 to que up for it and accept it when it pops - from ANYWHERE.
This significantly increases the success rate and decreases the frustration rate. Isnt the point of MMOs to get online and play with your friends? We can que for any other type of encounter, given it takes 25 players to do this, its not as if you can REALLY get a full premade to go in and do it. Especially given the very small Que window.
Either way the solo-Q system they have needs to change.
It's not braindead at all. Without being able to queue up with premade distributed groups, there is no way to guarantee a proper kill 5/5.
The reason the zerg works is the stacking of buffs and debuffs. If you have everyone or even half on one head you usually get enough of the debuffs and buffs.
Im not saying that a properly built 20k doesnt outperform a properly built 17k..
Sorry yes gear score bias can go both ways. But I see so many people just pushing gear score that enter, its counter productive.
those gear channels are ridiculous as well, it can promote that behavior.
I dont know how tiamat will be going foward, I suspect that once we get our higher gear (ill be in pvp gear probably for my main 3 I go to tiamat with, and a mixture of perfect/trancendent/pure enchants we will be ok.)
I'm gonna buy Linus from bots, not doing this **** unless there's a queue in place. Hot **** this is annoying...
The converse is you don't use those channels and end up in an instance with 10k-13K people with bad builds, bad gear and not knowing how to play. Even 1 full group of properly geared/played 20ks will not make up for that ineptitude.
WE will have less buffs in total though, as Hp, the draconics (dc/gwf stack) and HV are gone or will be soon enough.
So basically we need people to upgrade perfect plague fires and perfect terrors to higher levels to get those buffs back (set gear being replaced with enchantment basically)
Once done it will adjust things back down to reasonable levels. (those two stacked will reduce damage as well, if vorpal is given like a 10 debuff on power on top of that, we are talking about a massive reduction of damage in total)
what you mean not worth getting the boons got buffed like mad
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Hard to know for sure at this point. It's not like there have been a lot of attempts.
My suspicion is that it will be really, really hard and likely only will be completed by really, really good instances. In the rest people will be butchered and will fail hard.
I'm afraid to say that I have to agree with this consensus based on the data gathered so far and current forced pugging of Tiamat. If we could enter with teams, that'd be one thing, but the current system won't work.
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If it is for the last two boons, most have either not bother with it, gotten it already, or recently started. Only reason I can think of is that the set from tiamat might be BiS.