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I'm not spending money to refine the same things every 3 months
x10110100
Member Posts: 69 Arc User
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Neither Am I
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
You should buy gear as a way to bypass a grind that you don't enjoy, so you can do stuff that you do enjoy. But you have to understand that what you're doing is basically paying a higher ticket fee to see the same show.
If you're buying gear with the expectation that it's going to last forever, and nothing better is going to come along, you're just setting yourself up for misery and disappointment, like those people who just HAD to have an Artifact Belt as soon as they were available, and "spent" hundreds of dollars to get it. If having one first wasn't worth the cost, why did you do it?
Bottom line: The dollars you spend on Neverwinter are entrainment dollars. You're not actually buying anything physical or enduring. You're buying ACCESS to stuff. It's no different than going to the movies, playing a round of golf, having a nice dinner or buying an expensive pint of rare beer. Once the experience is gone, there's no refund on your money. And if the experience itself isn't worth it, than don't spend the money.
However, I agree with you that there is a 'treadmill' here with refining and getting the best equipment. The game is definitely being monetized. One part of me thinks it is a business after all, but it also leaves me thinking that perhaps the game 'managers' have lost their way and are only trying to make more money by keeping us longer on the treadmill.
I will make some (hopefully) constructive comments to Cryptic/PWE/Neverwinter:
1. You can make the goalposts for refining/BIS gear etc farther, but don't make it so soon! 3 months to have to change items like artifact belts is really quite presumptious on people's ability/inclination to keep on getting the best gear. Let us enjoy some time with the items we have spent so much (time/money) on.
2. A new module is always a welcome change, but it *does not* have to mean this amount of grind! More D&D Lore content, immersing us in the story-line, group interaction, new PVP maps would have been nice. Grindiness does not equate to fun.
3. Listen to your player-base. Don't make this an 'arms race' to see who can get the best gear all at once, or at least make it so that it is more equitable in events where we party up with others e.g. Tiamat, PvP. I hear that 'nerfing down' is what is going to happen; while it doesn't sound good, at least make it so that it works well - test, test and more testing.
Wish I could believe that, the devs are nice enough people and all. But I dont think they're calling the shots anymore.
I look at the changes to Neverwinter and I really cant say I like where it's going. In principle the sound good, level raise with new content, new gear. But take a look at what's happening with some of the classes. Being given bonuses that way outstrip the other classes, while some of the weaker classes (Yes, I am talking about us Warlocks) get left farther and farther behind.
I grouped with one of the devs the other day to do a kessell run, We made it in 11 parsecs (heh)
Actually on my control wizard with the draconic templar set and blue level belt, weapon, offhand and neck I contributed 4x the damage that he did with his SW. And he was running the damage build, we discussed it as the skirmish ran.
And get this, I was running the master of flames path on my CW. The supposibly weaker of the 2 paths with the CW (Through honestly I think it should be considered the higher damage dealer due to smolder. Wizards can argue for this class better then I can)
I think some bad choices are being forced here and everybody is trying to do the best that they can with what's going on. But for now I wouldnt expect this to be the end of the treadmill as far as gear refinement goes.
Now that being said, at least on test, refinement items are dropping in much greater supply then before. Lets see if those things make it live and stay there.
The fundamental problem is if you play the game and don't sink big bucks into the game (well even if you do), you would be left with gear that is under 3 months old and hardly maxed out, being made obsolete.
The big insult to all this is that it requires very expensive refining stones and that refining the old gear into the new gives you only 40%. People keep saying wait for a 2x and then you get 80%. Sorry that is absurd. Wait for an event that might or might not happen and still lose 20% on items that are LESS than 3 months old.
The only way this is even remotely acceptable is if they give 100% RP back on these items, right from the beginning.
All I can say is, good luck trying to get blood from a stone.
Except the glaring flaw in your logic is the items aren't equal. One is clearly superior to the other. For example, which item would you rather have?
You can't think of the RP thing as losing something. You're actually GAINING something. You can't kill stuff with RP. You kill stuff with your weapon.
The new weapon you'll have is better. So why lament the "loss" of RP?
Here's an even better comparison.
Which weapon do you want? The Module 5 or the Module 6 one?
Excluding the cost to make it, you're going to get a class equivalent to the Module 6 one for free.
Explain to me again how you're losing here?
Dam you have about 100 post already explaining this and you still dont get it you dont read what you dont want to know or?
RP system is making people give up and if you are new player and dont have already fed items how about then?
The cost of getting artifacts in time or money are to steep and has to be renewed to often for any new players to even think about trying to gear up with them. This making them pick other games and makes old players tire and move on to less costy games in short its slowly(or rather fast actually) killing this game. This is what people are trying to say about this endless RP cost.
But keep defending it am sure when you stand there in only purply items alone lfg that you look aruond and wonder where everybody are .....
Only because they decided to rebalance everything, deprecating the old artifact weapons to the point of unusability.
You can't compare the stats of the 2 and say the purple new one is better than your old legendary one. That is not an apples to apples comparison.
Yes, you do lose RP. One would have been better off SKIPPING all the artifact items/refining in Mod 6 and then you would be in a much better place in Mod 7 (you would have 100% return on your refining stones instead of 40%) than you would be if you used your refining on the soon to be defunct Mod 6 artifact equipment items.
Anytime "skipping" a module(the artifacts of the module) puts you in a better place for the next one, one has to seriously take a second look at what they are doing.
Getting an Artifact to Legendary isn't the game. Playing the game is the game. That's the concept you have to understand. If you're not having fun playing the actual game, then the rest of this stuff IS pointless and it IS meaningless.
This is just a bunch of pixels. It means NOTHING.
It's what you do with it that's important. That's the point.
What I'm trying to show people is that the Artifact Equipment changes aren't going to negatively impact your ability to play the game and have fun.
And I could've saved myself about $40 by not seeing the Lord of the Rings trilogy in the theaters as soon as they came out. But I did and I had fun.
Same thing here. If you're not having fun with the game...if the idea that you should quit playing is more satisfying than the actual game...well, then there's your answer.
To be more exact - it is not clearly superior. It is relatively the same as you have now. with all the changes they did to new mod and in particular 2 things tougher mobs ( ~ 40% on boss [URL="http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?856141-Enemy-Damage-Resistance-in-Mod-
6&p=10221671&viewfull=1#post10221671"]by abaddon523[/URL]) and new curves.
Your old upgraded gear on same level as on live (eg just log in) is doing worse on your lvl 70 on same mobs in same areas than your gear now on live at your lvl 60.
Your new artifact gear after 80% refinement on double RP week will be performing same or a bit better on your level 70 then your current gear on live at your level 60.
my math was fast and sloppy a bit.
But in general resolution imho is that new gear will be performing in best case a bit better [0, up to 12%] then your current gear.
By best conditions I mean
- you refine it at 2xp week to get 80% of RP invested back
- you manage to close DR gap by other stuff with better RoI to get 12% raise. If not it may be same result as best on boss fights.
Also note - Im just talking about 1 item. Main hand. There is off hand that will require more investments such as cubes. There are new belts and new neck. Even if you could minimize AD loss as 20% on each piece, you actually will lose at least 20% per each item you have (x4).
Also if you have all 4 items maximized to legendary - you are a top loser in RP value.Amount of RP lost in total could be enough to make another purple artifact.
Above that you lost 4 additional enchantment slots.
I hate seeing items in the shops, I dont mind UNIQUE items (there just skins) that's NOT better then in game items, just different, fine by me.
You want to monetize the system (even though I hate the whole process pretty much) then follow one of the like 12 better options that players have already given in thier threads.
Stop telling people to leave the game if they disagree with this click and grind process.
You're getting caught up on the Refinement Points, which is the process, not the result, which is the Weapon.
What would you say if you got 100% of your RP, but then needed another 6 million RP to reach the next rank?
Some numbers to chew on.
The last rank of an Artifact Weapon took 336,000 RP. Now let's assume that Cryptic is nice, and that doesn't increase for ranks 61-80. Each level is 336,000 RP. That's a total of 6.7 million RP to reach Rank 80. That's 50% more than it took you to get to rank 60. So take the number of clicks it took you and multiple that by about 1.5. Are you happy with that? Because that's what you just asked for.
Now take what they DID. They gave you a more powerful weapon, but instead of making the field longer (by adding more RP), the just set you back. So you have a better weapon AND worse case scenario, it will take you 2.7 million RP to get back to Legendary.
Look at the Artifacts that they did add levels to. Getting up to Mythic quality I believe is 170,000 per level. That's 6.8 million more RP. Does that sound like fun?
Dungeons and Dragons Online does something like this called True Resurrection. It's actually extremely popular. You get to max level, then start again with a new class (or maybe the same one) at level 1, but gain additional bonuses each time you TR. The more times you TR, the more powerful you become.
Oh I get this, and it's exactly why I'm posting. There's some lateral thinking going on here, so I know it's a tough idea to grasp.
It's easy to focus on the color of the item border or the amount of RP. At a quick glance it DOES feel like you're moving backwards. But when you dive deeper into it, you realize you are actually moving FORWARD.
The amount of RP you have invested in the item doesn't directly determine how powerful that item is. The actual ITEM determines how powerful that item is.
That's what I'm trying to get across. People need to stop focusing on the RP number, and focus on the result, which is better, more powerful gear.
That is where the slap in the face comes from.
I used to play WoW, I raided for gear. I understand the replacement of gear when a new expansion comes out. At least when raiding, even though it became a grind, I actually felt some sort of accomplishment. Grinding out RP points, picking up every blue and peridot or whatever and then feeding it into my artifact is not exactly the same satisfaction. When I finally rank up, it's more like "omg, finally" and now I have to spend all that time again, running around gathering up every I see and make sure that race/creature is about to go extinct.
I'm afraid to see where I'll be left behind when I feed my epic artifact equipment into a green. Having a blue in return isn't exactly a good feeling, even if it's a little better. In the end, I'll just have to grin and bear it, it will be my decision but on the part of Cryptic, it really makes it a depressing situation for the players.
This 100%
This is truly constructive, and I pray the devs read this. THIS strategy will make them far more monies, that what is in the works atm.
I think you don't understand at a fundamental level how MMOs work.
Read this. It's a wiki about the World of Warcraft Armor sets.
This is how it works. Every content expansion brings new BiS gear. It might come with a level increase. Or not. But what it essentially does is render the previous tier of gear obsolete. As people tackle the new raid content, they replace their existing gear with the new gear to achieve the NEW BiS.
But, the previous tier of gear isn't necessarily needed to acheive the next one. There's like 17 tiers of gear in WoW now, but a new player isn't FORCED to grind up from Tier 1. They enter the game with mechanisms in place to allow them to "catch up" to the current tier of content, and perhaps earn BiS themselves.
This is what you're seeing now. There's a new tier of Legendary equipment coming out. And what we're seeing here is Cryptic implementing a "catch up" mechanism so that new players who join in module 6 or returning players aren't so far behind everyone else that they feel like they're lost.
However, for existing players who've already invested time and resources into their Artifact Gear are going to be ahead of any one who's just starting.
And pretty much every mainstream Western MMO does the same thing. It's no shock to anyone who's played MMOs before.
But if it's a concept that you can't deal with, you perhaps need to forget about chasing BiS Legendary gear, and just play the game using crafted or dropped gear (all of which is sufficient to enjoy the PvE content). There's millions of people who've played WoW and have never raided, don't like raiding and will never get the "BiS" gear. Nor do they care. They enjoy the parts of the game they enjoy, and don't participate in the parts of the game they don't.
100000% agree
this is a false idea
1 if this was about farming gear one would complain you dont see any one upset over the new chest feet arms or head do you no cause that is a normal way of increasing the level
2 this is just about the refining and the fact that everyone has worked the fingers off to get where they are feeding tons of blues grees and every stone we could find into 1 artifact to get it to a decent lv just to have it replaced 3 months after if was released this is what got everyone including me pissed off
3 this is why the devs need to chang this now before they chase everyone away from the game
4 as far as all of the botted refining stuff out there the devs knew about this for years and did nothing now we have to pay for there unwillingnees to address the issue they should have bound every stone out there a long time ago and they wouldnt be in this spot
Safe travels,
Archmage Zebular of Mystryl
PWE Community Moderator
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