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Elemental Evil Preview Patch NotesNW.45.20150217a.3

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  • healaryhealary Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    The change of GG PVP to 10 vs 10 with no PVE buff basically renders it just 2 teams vs 2 teams domination PVP.

    It is quite obvious it is due to the rapidly fading GG population. But it won't solve the problem since many T2 pieces are down to below 10k AD a piece already. You may also change the requirement of DK to the completion of only either but not both the PVP and PVE sessions before it turns into a ghost town.
  • rversantrversant Member Posts: 896 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    healary wrote: »
    The change of GG PVP to 10 vs 10 with no PVE buff basically renders it just 2 teams vs 2 teams domination PVP.

    It is quite obvious it is due to the rapidly fading GG population. But it won't solve the problem since many T2 pieces are down to below 10k AD a piece already. You may also change the requirement of DK to the completion of only either but not both the PVP and PVE sessions before it turns into a ghost town.

    10v10 matches sound way more fun that the 20v20 horse-riding simulator that the current GG is.
    I'd go as far as to say cut the map scale down about 20% or so also so people are actually forced to fight more often.
    People are way too negative, Why cant we just all get along.


    Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
  • healaryhealary Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    rversant wrote: »
    10v10 matches sound way more fun that the 20v20 horse-riding simulator that the current GG is.
    I'd go as far as to say cut the map scale down about 20% or so also so people are actually forced to fight more often.

    I don't see it more fun than ICW PVP. What't the point of GG PVE now?
  • rversantrversant Member Posts: 896 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    healary wrote: »
    I don't see it more fun than ICW PVP. What't the point of GG PVE now?[/QUOT

    ICW pvp is fun because you can 1v1 and the world is nice and big so you find targets.
    GG is more about team fighting, more so than domination where we used to just send someone to their back point to harrass and nerd them, while we hold mid and our back.

    GG PVE ? no idea... maybe they will increase GG coins from it or give new level 70 GG gear.
    People are way too negative, Why cant we just all get along.


    Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
  • healaryhealary Member Posts: 600 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    rversant wrote: »
    healary wrote: »
    I don't see it more fun than ICW PVP. What't the point of GG PVE now?[/QUOT

    ICW pvp is fun because you can 1v1 and the world is nice and big so you find targets.
    GG is more about team fighting, more so than domination where we used to just send someone to their back point to harrass and nerd them, while we hold mid and our back.

    GG PVE ? no idea... maybe they will increase GG coins from it or give new level 70 GG gear.

    There is no "team" concept in gg pvp if there is no gg pve. Also, if you think 10 vs 10 is more fun, it should be added to Domination PVP rather.
  • rversantrversant Member Posts: 896 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    healary wrote: »
    rversant wrote: »

    There is no "team" concept in gg pvp if there is no gg pve. Also, if you think 10 vs 10 is more fun, it should be added to Domination PVP rather.

    Maybe, but we dont make the decisions. Though I would not want the current Dom map to be 10v10... maybe the larger one with the longer paths between points would be a possibility to work.. but definitely not the other one.
    People are way too negative, Why cant we just all get along.


    Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
  • s1lv3rdrgnforums1lv3rdrgnforum Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    You guys know that piercing damage will not go away, and will not change because it is not broken. You know it. I know you do. It's been explained before, and I'll waste a few minutes and explain it again. It's absolutely no different than a feat that gives you a flat damage bonus.

    I hit you. I do 10,000 damage. Your Damage resistance absorbs 20% or 2,000 damage. 8,000 damage is now handed to Shadow of Demise (or Oppresive Darkness) SoD does 50% of that damage as my capstone. so you get hit for 4k damage 6 seconds after the initial attack. THIS damage is unavoidable. It's already been calculated by your Damage resistance. It's the bottom of the equation, the end of the calculation. It's not a *new* damage source. It is ALREADY being respected by tenacity.

    This could easily end up like this:

    I hit you for 10k damage, you deflect 50%. 5,000 now goes to your DR; -20% = 4,000 dmg. Which is now handed to SoD which only does 50% @ 2,000 damage.

    Basically, 2 GWF tree's and SoD all give a 50% increase in damage.

    GWF: 10,000 + 5,000 = 15,000 -20% = 12,000
    TR: 10,000 - 20% = 8,000 /2 = 4,000 + 8,000 = 12,000

    who's bonus is better? That's right, there's no such thing as piercing damage. It's all words to make the ability look like it's doing something cool, which it really isnt. Really, SoD is a nerf, in comparison to GWF capstones; in that it consistently (when working as intended) applies it's capstone damage 6 seconds AFTER it procs (despite whether the target is alive or not). So in actuality, while GWF's (once they've met their capstone stacking requirement/taken so many hits) have a now constant +50% damage for as long as they maintain it; a TR faces a gamble on EVERY target whether his capstone is even going to make a difference. There is probably a Law of Averages twist going on here that says all three capstones are more than likely to be only 10-20% effective over the life of the character.

    BTW, CW Thaumaturge capstone is almost exactly like SoD.
    Bedlam: Creating chaos as a MI Exec TR
    Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene
    Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice
    Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee
    Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
  • rversantrversant Member Posts: 896 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    You guys know that piercing damage will not go away, and will not change because it is not broken. You know it. I know you do. It's been explained before, and I'll waste a few minutes and explain it again. It's absolutely no different than a feat that gives you a flat damage bonus.

    I hit you. I do 10,000 damage. Your Damage resistance absorbs 20% or 2,000 damage. 8,000 damage is now handed to Shadow of Demise (or Oppresive Darkness) SoD does 50% of that damage as my capstone. so you get hit for 4k damage 6 seconds after the initial attack. THIS damage is unavoidable. It's already been calculated by your Damage resistance. It's the bottom of the equation, the end of the calculation. It's not a *new* damage source. It is ALREADY being respected by tenacity.

    This could easily end up like this:

    I hit you for 10k damage, you deflect 50%. 5,000 now goes to your DR; -20% = 4,000 dmg. Which is now handed to SoD which only does 50% @ 2,000 damage.

    Basically, 2 GWF tree's and SoD all give a 50% increase in damage.

    GWF: 10,000 + 5,000 = 15,000 -20% = 12,000
    TR: 10,000 - 20% = 8,000 /2 = 4,000 + 8,000 = 12,000

    who's bonus is better? That's right, there's no such thing as piercing damage. It's all words to make the ability look like it's doing something cool, which it really isnt. Really, SoD is a nerf, in comparison to GWF capstones; in that it consistently (when working as intended) applies it's capstone damage 6 seconds AFTER it procs (despite whether the target is alive or not). So in actuality, while GWF's (once they've met their capstone stacking requirement/taken so many hits) have a now constant +50% damage for as long as they maintain it; a TR faces a gamble on EVERY target whether his capstone is even going to make a difference. There is probably a Law of Averages twist going on here that says all three capstones are more than likely to be only 10-20% effective over the life of the character.

    BTW, CW Thaumaturge capstone is almost exactly like SoD.

    Play a GWF at 60, make a 15k TR and a 15k GWF. and look at how much ridiculously higher the TR's damage is and how much comes from The feat. Then you can start saying GWF have Bonuses that equal TR. I can see where you're coming from in your explanations, but its just doesn't balance out the same as you say it does. Otherwise GWF's wouldnt be using the Powerstack intimidation build and would instead be using Destro / Insti for that 50% damage bonus and the benefits of it. hell if Destroyer capstone gave us 50% PIERCING damage as opposed to its current damage bonus, I'd never stop using destroyer.
    People are way too negative, Why cant we just all get along.


    Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
  • s1lv3rdrgnforums1lv3rdrgnforum Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    rversant wrote: »
    Play a GWF at 60, make a 15k TR and a 15k GWF. and look at how much ridiculously higher the TR's damage is and how much comes from The feat. Then you can start saying GWF have Bonuses that equal TR. I can see where you're coming from in your explanations, but its just doesn't balance out the same as you say it does. Otherwise GWF's wouldnt be using the Powerstack intimidation build and would instead be using Destro / Insti for that 50% damage bonus and the benefits of it. hell if Destroyer capstone gave us 50% PIERCING damage as opposed to its current damage bonus, I'd never stop using destroyer.

    You're right, I cant argue that there are some things wrong with TR's. I fully agree no class should be able to 100% daze, or that any class should get their capstone damage multi-procced by GPF. I cant argue that GWF and TR are equally balanced - I can only state the fact that "piercing damage" is not really piercing damage and is not the problem.

    The Dev's know what the problems are. I'm sure the challenge for the dev's is you can't predict exactly *how well* some feats/powers execute and how some dont work well at all. All classes have some aspect of this. We all have a paragon or feat tree that just DOESNT work. SW damnation is a bright star for that. The problem REALLY is that it takes so long for each piece to be decided whether it's good/bad and which one's work the best equally.

    I know there's plenty of h8 for TR's and some of it is for damned good reasons. (looking at u revolverjesus) The only thing I can do is debunk the myths and lay out the math and hope non-TR's start screaming at the real problems (multi-proc PlagueFire; bloodbath+knifesedge) so the Dev's pay more attention to what's actually going to make a difference and stop being bombarded with ton's of mis-information and ignorance that just muddy up the water and make the task of re-balancing TR too overwhelming to even begin.
    Bedlam: Creating chaos as a MI Exec TR
    Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene
    Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice
    Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee
    Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
  • rversantrversant Member Posts: 896 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Damage by 3.7k power, 14.3k gear score Rogue no arti weaps no weapon chant in 4 Cloud of Steel + Lashing blade + SoD +34787

    Damage done by 9k power, 21k Gearscore GWF GWF with Full unstoppable stacks Arti weap and P vorpal (50% dmg) From Takedown + Fls + IBS (critted) + Deep Gash + a sure strike (slipped in there) +37587

    with under 50% of the power, and using just 4 at will hits and one encounter vs 3 encounters The rogue did only 3,000 less than the GWF, Who had a Perfect Vorpal.

    I know I was only able to test this twice for each char, and since it was VS target dummies and not live PVP (where the rogue has further advantages due to stealth, CC and range) The results don't show much more than damage output from a few hits, But both times the rogue was consistantly at around 34k, while the GWF went origional one was only 27k because no crit on IBS (my crit chance is 33 or 34% in the PVE gear I had on)

    Even though the GWF used 3 ENCOUNTER POWERS (which are obviously considered to be stronger than At-wills) and had his Capstones damage boost active. the rogue quite easily kept up with a few at will hits and 1 encounter.

    ALSO remember that if these two classes fought each other, even standing still. TR has a higher deflect severity passively.
    People are way too negative, Why cant we just all get along.


    Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
  • revovlerjesus1revovlerjesus1 Member Posts: 481 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    You're right, I cant argue that there are some things wrong with TR's. I fully agree no class should be able to 100% daze, or that any class should get their capstone damage multi-procced by GPF. I cant argue that GWF and TR are equally balanced - I can only state the fact that "piercing damage" is not really piercing damage and is not the problem.

    The Dev's know what the problems are. I'm sure the challenge for the dev's is you can't predict exactly *how well* some feats/powers execute and how some dont work well at all. All classes have some aspect of this. We all have a paragon or feat tree that just DOESNT work. SW damnation is a bright star for that. The problem REALLY is that it takes so long for each piece to be decided whether it's good/bad and which one's work the best equally.

    I know there's plenty of h8 for TR's and some of it is for damned good reasons. (looking at u revolverjesus) The only thing I can do is debunk the myths and lay out the math and hope non-TR's start screaming at the real problems (multi-proc PlagueFire; bloodbath+knifesedge) so the Dev's pay more attention to what's actually going to make a difference and stop being bombarded with ton's of mis-information and ignorance that just muddy up the water and make the task of re-balancing TR too overwhelming to even begin.
    I know that there are a lot of players that dont understand how a TR works. But i have one myself, with all the goodies on it. I dont even play it anymore since its so dumb.

    But whatever, how can u say : "It is not piercing damage" When it totaly ignores defense, deflect and tenacity?! This is a mystery to me.
    Go To Ptr, be lvl 70, slot opressive darkness. Go stealth, and toss as many daggers you can at any target untill stealth runs out. Then come back here and post the log of the damage pls. If you still not think its "piercing" i have no hope for you :/ (Still not talking about SoD, just to make that clear on more time)
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  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    While I like the changes (in principle) to the Invoking system, the system seems to break on a regular basis currently. Its hard to monitor exactly but it seems to have a timer buried in it that causes it to reset.

    For example:
    Invoke 1: 15 Minutes Wait
    Invoke 2: Set wait.
    Don't invoke within Y minutes.
    Reset to Invoke 1.

    In addition to this it also seems to just stop you from invoking randomly, even if you haven't invoked 6 or more times in a "day".
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • obsidiancran3obsidiancran3 Member Posts: 1,823 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    I would love to go look at the changes to CC but I cannot get in, even with the quest.
    Obsidian Moonlight - Paladin
    Obsidian Oath - Warlock
    A whole lot of other Obsidian toons as well.
  • s1lv3rdrgnforums1lv3rdrgnforum Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 264 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    clonkyo1 wrote: »
    the problem with your explanation is that, while GWF's damage will be mitigated, even deflected, SoD, in example, will be not. So, even if a GWF can get a "150%" or even a "1000%" flat damage boost, if all that damage is mitigated, deflected or, worse yet, even IGNORED, it becomes useless. Also, remember a thing, Piercing Damage benefits from other stats like RI or even can proc LS... But, as usual, only bad TR and CW players agreed that GWF-class is "fine" as it is right now and we, GWF-players, are ALL and TOTALLY wrong and we do not know even how to play our own main class... and, BTW and PvE side, is the only class FORCED to be on BiS gear to make the under performance less noticeable IF other party members are not wearing BiS gear...

    That was my whole point - was showing that SoD is damage that has already been mitigated. I cant make it any clearer. It's EXACTLY the same. SoD cannot proc any feats- proccing LS would be exactly the same as the GWF or CW damage; there is no reason to expect it shouldnt be able to proc LS. It does not _benefit_ from resistance ignored because SoD damage is the sum total AFTER mitigation. Bottom line - SoD is NO DIFFERENT than other feats - the word piercing means absolutely nothing. zip. nada. Do the Math. The final numbers like the comparison Reversant made can show whatever result you want them to show; they can show TR is OP .. they can show GWF is OP .. you can manipulate them however you want. (Honest, I posted recently a lashing blade that did 9,000 dmg. I was astounded at how low it was. However, I can also honestly say I personally have put up over 120k lashing blade hits in PvE and sometimes 25k in PvP.

    For the record I DO NOT have any opinion on the GWF class. I do not call myself a PVP'er. I do not put my nose in other classes forums to give opinions on their classes because I dont know enough. I used the GWF capstones as examples because after their conditions are met they add 50% damage just like SoD. They just add it on a different end of the equation. I dont care how hard it is to activate those capstones / that's not the point of my post. I am only showing that under the hood - the end result is the same.

    I fully support every class being "balanced". That means something different to me than it does to you I'm sure. I do not believe PvP has a place in Neverwinter. I believe a role playing game is about the story. Balance then to me is about each class having a role to play to accomplish a goal bigger than any one team member can handle. Balance means they all compliment each other. To me, balance is saying "I couldnt have done it without you guys." I couldnt have done CN without you, (GWF, DC, GF, HR, CW, SW). I couldnt have done VT without you. I shouldnt be able to solo these bosses because they should be LITERALLY impossible for me to accomplish alone. In all the fiction from D&D there are less than a dozen "characters" who became Gods. EVERY single player in NWO is a GOD by the time they reach 20k GS. It's because my defintion of balance and your definition of balance and Cryptic's definition of balance is pretty far apart from each other. I fully believe the biggest part of this problem is that Cryptic's idea of balance is how much power they can give a player and still motivate them to spend money. If there was no money, and Cryptic could focus on balancing for PvP or PvE this would be a much different discussion.
    Bedlam: Creating chaos as a MI Exec TR
    Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene
    Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice
    Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee
    Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
  • someonediessomeonedies Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,257 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    panderus wrote: »
    Classes and Balance
    Tranquil Enchantments: The amount of Hit Points gained has increased starting at Rank 8 and up by about double with Rank 12 giving 2400.

    Tranquil got reworked.
    What is a real ICD?
    Does it works with multiple copies?
    Do buffs/debuffs (incoming healing bonus/healing depression/new regen etc) affect Tranquil heal?
    Rimuru?
    Dead 🔪
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,467 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    Tranquil got reworked.
    What is a real ICD?
    Does it works with multiple copies?
    Do buffs/debuffs (incoming healing bonus/healing depression/new regen etc) affect Tranquil heal?

    Does this go for the serene runestone as well?
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
    My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
  • rversantrversant Member Posts: 896 Arc User
    edited March 2015

    I fully support every class being "balanced". That means something different to me than it does to you I'm sure. I do not believe PvP has a place in Neverwinter. I believe a role playing game is about the story. Balance then to me is about each class having a role to play to accomplish a goal bigger than any one team member can handle. Balance means they all compliment each other. To me, balance is saying "I couldnt have done it without you guys." I couldnt have done CN without you, (GWF, DC, GF, HR, CW, SW). I couldnt have done VT without you. I shouldnt be able to solo these bosses because they should be LITERALLY impossible for me to accomplish alone. In all the fiction from D&D there are less than a dozen "characters" who became Gods. EVERY single player in NWO is a GOD by the time they reach 20k GS. It's because my defintion of balance and your definition of balance and Cryptic's definition of balance is pretty far apart from each other. I fully believe the biggest part of this problem is that Cryptic's idea of balance is how much power they can give a player and still motivate them to spend money. If there was no money, and Cryptic could focus on balancing for PvP or PvE this would be a much different discussion.


    Except for the fact a ~15k rogue can outdps a 21k GWF, as well as outsurvive them via deflects and immunity frames and dazes.
    People are way too negative, Why cant we just all get along.


    Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
  • hustin1hustin1 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,467 Arc User
    edited March 2015
    panderus wrote: »
    You will be able to purchase up to 200 slots when this hits live. Please let me know if you do not think this is enough for some reason. We did a tally and there are around 150 different companions now or so, though some of those may just be dev versions.

    I can't tell you how relieved this makes me. I have a HUGE backlog of companions sitting in the bank that I want to play with, but cannot for lack of room. Now I really can't wait.

    Is 200 enough? For now, probably -- what about a year from now? Just saying...

    It's too bad we don't have a companion wish list. I know what I'd wish for...

    - Any goblin type, though a goblin sharpshooter would go nicely with an HR character type

    - A new redcap type. Not sure which I like more: the thorn would be more fun I think, though I'd LOVE to turn a giantsoul loose on those dragonsouls. Sweet revenge, indeed. With the thorn, though, he and my HR could trade notes on thorn wards ;)

    Or you could surprise us -- a *new* new redcap type, i.e. not one of the four types we already know about.

    I can think of other interesting companions, but the two above would top the list. Still, to get those creative juices flowing:

    - giant frog -- now that could make for some interesting combat mechanics
    - giant wasp -- maybe it has a poison attack
    - myconid (how did these NOT make it into Sharandar???)
    Harper Chronicles: Cap Snatchers (RELEASED) - NW-DPUTABC6X
    Blood Magic (RELEASED) - NW-DUU2P7HCO
    Children of the Fey (RELEASED) - NW-DKSSAPFPF
    Buried Under Blacklake (WIP) - NW-DEDV2PAEP
    The Redcap Rebels (WIP) - NW-DO23AFHFH
    My Foundry playthrough channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/Ruskaga/featured
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