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GWF balancing issues for this, and next mod.
ltgamesttv
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,438 Arc User
I'd like to discuss here some of the changes to GWF that has led to GWF being the second lowest on the PVP totem pole only slightly above SW.
Some history first... Circa mod 3, the roar (destroyer) GWF build caused so much pain and suffering on every class that the outcry must've been too great for the Devs not to hear it. Oddly the destroyer GWF was birthed from the outcry against mod 2 sentinel Crit GWF.
The mod 2 GWF with temp HP from unstoppable as well as HP gains from unstoppable combined with high regen stats and HP made him nigh unkillable. Combining this with Tenebrous enchants and a vorpal made GWF a force to be reckoned with . So the answer the Devs came up with was to nerf the feats in the Sentinel tree that gave him any damage. What began as an attempt to balance the class culminated in the Devs taking everything from the sentinel tree that made it any good and forcing the mod 3 Destroyer to become the next meta.
Mod 3 began the era of roar, that combined with takedown prones and an IBS that hit like a truck dominated the entire mod. Roar was the great negator. No matter what you were doing when you got Roared you ceased doing it and became a sitting duck for the rest of the destroyers rotation.
Once again, rather than fix the primary issue... roar... the Devs went to work making destroyer almost entirely useless in mod 4. It was these crucial changes to class mechanics that has put GWF in it's current lowly state and it's these mechanics I'd like to discuss here:
1) Determination gains got nerfed: Sent, Destroyer, or Instigator you have to lose 25 to 50% of your health before you gain unstoppable. This is the equivalent of making it so that classes with dodge mechanics only get that mechanic when they are at half health, and then once again just before they die.
2) Unstoppable got nerfed for Destroyer and Instigator brininging the DR down so low as to be almost unnoticeable. 15-30% DR is nothing considering the DPS classes are doing now.
3) Thinking they were aiding us, they gave us a little bit of token DR as well as CC immunity during sprint. The problem is that unlike dodge mechanics with immunity frames or shield mechanics that are client side, sprint is slow to start (server side) and cannot be used to dodge. In other words if you aren't sprinting before a foe's animation begins then you will get CC'd. Thus all foes have to do is catch you flat footed or wait for you to stop sprinting, even for one second and they have you.
4) Nerfing sentinel class feature related to gaining HP from unstoppable via healing depression and not adjusting the class feature accordingly.
5) Giving all the other classes piercing damage that ignores armor/DR and telling us to facetank it when all we have is armor/DR. *HUGE MISTAKE* After all what good is getting unstoppable, which is just increased DR, when classes ignore DR? It's like giving GWFs the ability to ignore dodges, you kill a class mechanic this way and make death unavoidable.
6) Taking away all prones from just this class excepting dailies while leaving other classes with prones (HR has one, CW has one, GF has one.. etc.) Prone was our best and only reliable way of lining up for that all important IBS. This killed it. Also our "stuns" are deflected by most classes a high percentage of the time.
7)Our only gap closer, that had to be stolen from GF, as well as the one of only 2 abilities that mark our targets "threatening rush" got nerfed down to 3 charges (on top of damage reduction to this ability). Interestingly we have a feat that is what gives us most of our damage related to marking our target that can only be done with these abilites thus forcing our hand on which encounters/at-wills we must take as well (IV vs Swordmaster).
These are some of the most important changes to the class that were made either directly or indirectly that forced us to take up intimidation (which is boring and sucks imho). So we are reduced to waving our sword over our head and screaming at our opponents and then running around the node for 15-17 seconds while our cooldowns reset. Usually dying to some other class with high damage and low cooldowns and DR ignoring feats.
Devs, please don't abandon this class to this lowly fate. Look at the class mechanics, give us back some tankiness. I would say that if you gave us back, right now, the mod 3 GWF sans roar it would only be balanced with the other classes, there would be nothing about it that would be too strong.
As it stands if the GWF is not buffed for next mod, and I mean significantly, you will have effectively destroyed the class in PVP.
There are several things you could do to revitalize this class such as:
1) Give us determination based off of damage received, not HP lost (i.e. we take 15% of our max HP in damage prior to mitigating factors and we get unstoppable even if we only received 60% of that incoming damage).
2) Return unstoppable to a higher DR for all GWF classes considering the amount of DPS all the other classes are putting out now.
3) Make sprint client side with some CC immunity frames which would make it more like a Dodge or Shield mechanic. Also decrease stamina expense related to sprint and/or give us faster stamina regen. You could also consider building determination while sprinting, thus you use one mechanic to build another.
4) Allow us to gain temp HP at the end of unstoppable that we keep that also counts back towards gaining determination when it is expended.
5) Get rid of piercing damage.. please.. seriously?.. for the love of the gawds bros
6) Give us back just one prone, in the form of takedown, there was no reason to take it away to begin with. If you feel having a prone up that often is too much then lengthen the cooldown on it when it connects.
7) Give us another at will gap closer or ranged at will attack so we aren't constantly trying to sprint up to targets and then when our stamina runs out they blink or shift away and CC us.
8) Allow us to gain destroyer stacks outside of unstoppable. Increase the number of stacks to slow it a bit if need be but having to lose half your life to start dealing the damage that every other class can deal without taking damage is bad, like REAAAALLLY BAAAD. Please rethink this strategy guys, please.
These are a few potential fixes, I'm sure others could offer their two cents as well.
Thanks for your time and consideration in this matter.
Some history first... Circa mod 3, the roar (destroyer) GWF build caused so much pain and suffering on every class that the outcry must've been too great for the Devs not to hear it. Oddly the destroyer GWF was birthed from the outcry against mod 2 sentinel Crit GWF.
The mod 2 GWF with temp HP from unstoppable as well as HP gains from unstoppable combined with high regen stats and HP made him nigh unkillable. Combining this with Tenebrous enchants and a vorpal made GWF a force to be reckoned with . So the answer the Devs came up with was to nerf the feats in the Sentinel tree that gave him any damage. What began as an attempt to balance the class culminated in the Devs taking everything from the sentinel tree that made it any good and forcing the mod 3 Destroyer to become the next meta.
Mod 3 began the era of roar, that combined with takedown prones and an IBS that hit like a truck dominated the entire mod. Roar was the great negator. No matter what you were doing when you got Roared you ceased doing it and became a sitting duck for the rest of the destroyers rotation.
Once again, rather than fix the primary issue... roar... the Devs went to work making destroyer almost entirely useless in mod 4. It was these crucial changes to class mechanics that has put GWF in it's current lowly state and it's these mechanics I'd like to discuss here:
1) Determination gains got nerfed: Sent, Destroyer, or Instigator you have to lose 25 to 50% of your health before you gain unstoppable. This is the equivalent of making it so that classes with dodge mechanics only get that mechanic when they are at half health, and then once again just before they die.
2) Unstoppable got nerfed for Destroyer and Instigator brininging the DR down so low as to be almost unnoticeable. 15-30% DR is nothing considering the DPS classes are doing now.
3) Thinking they were aiding us, they gave us a little bit of token DR as well as CC immunity during sprint. The problem is that unlike dodge mechanics with immunity frames or shield mechanics that are client side, sprint is slow to start (server side) and cannot be used to dodge. In other words if you aren't sprinting before a foe's animation begins then you will get CC'd. Thus all foes have to do is catch you flat footed or wait for you to stop sprinting, even for one second and they have you.
4) Nerfing sentinel class feature related to gaining HP from unstoppable via healing depression and not adjusting the class feature accordingly.
5) Giving all the other classes piercing damage that ignores armor/DR and telling us to facetank it when all we have is armor/DR. *HUGE MISTAKE* After all what good is getting unstoppable, which is just increased DR, when classes ignore DR? It's like giving GWFs the ability to ignore dodges, you kill a class mechanic this way and make death unavoidable.
6) Taking away all prones from just this class excepting dailies while leaving other classes with prones (HR has one, CW has one, GF has one.. etc.) Prone was our best and only reliable way of lining up for that all important IBS. This killed it. Also our "stuns" are deflected by most classes a high percentage of the time.
7)Our only gap closer, that had to be stolen from GF, as well as the one of only 2 abilities that mark our targets "threatening rush" got nerfed down to 3 charges (on top of damage reduction to this ability). Interestingly we have a feat that is what gives us most of our damage related to marking our target that can only be done with these abilites thus forcing our hand on which encounters/at-wills we must take as well (IV vs Swordmaster).
These are some of the most important changes to the class that were made either directly or indirectly that forced us to take up intimidation (which is boring and sucks imho). So we are reduced to waving our sword over our head and screaming at our opponents and then running around the node for 15-17 seconds while our cooldowns reset. Usually dying to some other class with high damage and low cooldowns and DR ignoring feats.
Devs, please don't abandon this class to this lowly fate. Look at the class mechanics, give us back some tankiness. I would say that if you gave us back, right now, the mod 3 GWF sans roar it would only be balanced with the other classes, there would be nothing about it that would be too strong.
As it stands if the GWF is not buffed for next mod, and I mean significantly, you will have effectively destroyed the class in PVP.
There are several things you could do to revitalize this class such as:
1) Give us determination based off of damage received, not HP lost (i.e. we take 15% of our max HP in damage prior to mitigating factors and we get unstoppable even if we only received 60% of that incoming damage).
2) Return unstoppable to a higher DR for all GWF classes considering the amount of DPS all the other classes are putting out now.
3) Make sprint client side with some CC immunity frames which would make it more like a Dodge or Shield mechanic. Also decrease stamina expense related to sprint and/or give us faster stamina regen. You could also consider building determination while sprinting, thus you use one mechanic to build another.
4) Allow us to gain temp HP at the end of unstoppable that we keep that also counts back towards gaining determination when it is expended.
5) Get rid of piercing damage.. please.. seriously?.. for the love of the gawds bros
6) Give us back just one prone, in the form of takedown, there was no reason to take it away to begin with. If you feel having a prone up that often is too much then lengthen the cooldown on it when it connects.
7) Give us another at will gap closer or ranged at will attack so we aren't constantly trying to sprint up to targets and then when our stamina runs out they blink or shift away and CC us.
8) Allow us to gain destroyer stacks outside of unstoppable. Increase the number of stacks to slow it a bit if need be but having to lose half your life to start dealing the damage that every other class can deal without taking damage is bad, like REAAAALLLY BAAAD. Please rethink this strategy guys, please.
These are a few potential fixes, I'm sure others could offer their two cents as well.
Thanks for your time and consideration in this matter.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments
great post, hopefully it's taken into serious consideration
(ignore this if you think it's another anti-TR rant, but, i have mostly good success against similiar geared classes...the only real problem i ever have comes from TRs, i get one shotted by 12k TRs on my 17k sentinel GWF (43% DR, 42% deflect, 37k HP) and when you don't get one shot, you get smashed by shadowy demise, which you can't dodge at all obviously on a GWF....really, a lot of the problems could be fixed when/if they bring the TR back down to earth...end of rant)
TR is definitely in need of balancing, I completely agree, what my post is primarily pointed at is three things. Firstly that intimidation GWF is a forced build and not very enjoyable in my opinion. Secondarily that the other two paths are mostly ignored in PVP because of the reasons stated. Thirdly, mod 6 is particularly unkind to GWFs. I don't know if you've been on preview much but, trust me brother, you will need all the buffs I mentioned and then some imho.
Thanks for your reply.
unfortunately, i've slightly retired my GWF, it's such an antiquated class if we're being honest, idk how clerics and rogues get a whole rework and gwfs are left in the dust, but that's another story for another day
i've done intimidation feat gwf, yea it's cheap, but what can you do
i've been playing destroyer gwf with sentinel/tanky gear, it's been working out when i'm not fighting a TR, so there's that
edit: also, i haven't tested the gwf on pts, i had read/heard that their damage was getting massive buff, but i guess they're still ****?
This is a terrible idea IMO, GWFs should never have been given access to threatening rush, it destroyed the skill level of the class and made macro spamming whales gods. The rest of your ideas are solid but this is just asking for EZ mode back.
I would take even one of these potential fixes and be happier for it, I would take them all and still be killed 1v1 by most classes in mod 6. I guess we'll have to see what becomes of the GWF.
Thanks for your reply.
Well that's disheartening. As a SM instigator I don't know how things could get any worse than they are now, hopefully you and others are providing some feedback in the preview forums that will be addressed, personally I don't have enough play time to spend it on preview where I won't get to keep the RPs that drop.
They most certainly can get worse. Classes like TR and HR are becoming stronger with new feats and abilities. GWF does not gain anything particularly impressive, we're already one of the weakest PVP classes this mod, the disparity will be worse next mod if changes aren't made.
"Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Intimidation: This feat now deals 25/50/75/100/125% of your weapon damage (instead of scaling on your power). This damage is amplified by power. Intimidated targets now take 100/200/300/400/500% more threat from you (up from 10/20/30/40/50%).
Great Weapon Fighter: Feats: Sentinel's Aegis: Now also passively increases threat generation by 250%."
Intimidation will work based on weapon damage, I guarantee there is no weapon that 125% of it's damage will be 14K. So 30K intimidation will be gone. GG cryptic you've killed GWF.
most TR's are predictable, even the high end TR's are starting to be. Smoke bomb is the easiest thing to dodge in this game. About dazing... its really about timing, a GWF generally really isn't affected by dazing except the annoying, unintentional two second silence/interrupt roar-style.
Guardian Fighter main. I will never switch to Paladin even if we're a dying breed. GF for ever!
Main alts: Great Weapon Fighter, Control Wizard.
Frankly, with the mod5 the TRs and DCs definately got the most out of it by being functionally redesigned in that each of the build paths hold clear thematic concepts which give rather uniquely useful utilities to each of the paths. When using the TRs, for example, the three different paths of Sab, Exec, Scoundrel all seem much more streamlined and useful than compared to the old path feats which used to give not much but small gimmicky bonuses which didn't really change how you fought.
In this aspect, we'd be able to rate the TRs and DCs as being the "latest model" of PvP, whilst the HRs being sort of an "interim" between the old and the new, and then the CW, GF, GWFs being the "oldest" and "outdated" in their mode of combat. Their general functionality between the builds aren't really defined or toned as the new DCs or TRs are IMO. Most of them are still using very old, same feats. If you're keen enough, you may notice a pattern here that the "older" the class design gets, the more it depends on just one or two wacky or clearly over-the-top features of the class which gives reason to a lot of complaints. For example the Spellstorm CWs which a single encounter, Shield, effectively makes up for like 99% of its defense.. and then the damage is entirely governed by literally "random strikes of lightning" -- which if procs a few times more than you expect then you just become dead on the spot.
IMO this is clearly a result of the devs sort of "jerry rig patching-up" a very old and lacking class design to the latest standards.. where they just increase or decrease the effects of one or two major features since they haven't got around to redesigning the entire class/build like they've done with TRs or DCs."
....
So, under that general premise, most of the suggestions you make would no doubt bring the GWF or even the GF back to a certain amount of competency, but it really smells a lot like a reverse-step into the mod2 design, especially considering Unstoppable/determination changes.. and believe me, the mod2 days of back-to-back Unstoppable with like maybe only 4 seconds in between still gives me the nightmares.
....
At this point, I'd love to ask to the GWF players -- what do you see in Instigator, Destroyer and Sentinel, as well as the paragons IV and SM? I'd like to ask this because for a long time, after the general decline of TRs since the beginning of the "new HRs" in mod3, many TR players have been looking for alternatives in class design, and through numerous discussions and ideas brought up, the general concept of Saboteuer being the stealth-oriented expert, the Scoundrel being the masterful infighter and dirty CCs, the Executioners being 1-shot DPS... this has been out for quite a long time until the devs finally took in the results of such discussions and requests and heavily implemented it as the central theme of the TR redesign in mod5. Hence, from that point stems the 'streamlining' of TR feats with very clear and concise differences between each of them.
Frankly speaking, with the current GWFs, or GFs, or even CWs... all the feats/paths still seem muddled up and mixed up in between with inefficient and sometimes plain useless feeling. A lot of the encounter powers and mechanics of the GWF/GF/CWs use also raises an eyebrow in their generally "old style" type of effects... stuff like Conduit of Ice for CWs, which ticks much too low damage with generally meh effects for today's PvP standards, the entire arcane stacks/chill system is also very old-style, the control effects are much too weak while one-shot procs are much too strong, and etc etc.. all of these, IMO, results of old-designs.
Thinking back on just how much ideas on encounters, utilities, new mechanics and stuff used to be discussed between TR players in the Thieves Guild forum, I don't believe I've seen such equivalents from GWF players in their own forum, and most people still cling on to the "bring us back to the old days" mentality -- at least that's what it looks like when seen from the outside.
Perhaps, just perhaps, it's high time the fighter-class players start pumping out new ideas that don't just repeat the old process or make tweaks to existing features. For one thing, IMO there also needs to be a role-effect reclassification between the GWFs and the GFs as well. etc etc..
....
So, to make long story short, the questions I'm really wondering, and yet I've not really seen any straight, serious answer from GWF/GF players... would be:
What would/should be the main difference in terms of actual mechanics, between an Iron Vanguard and the Sword Master?
What would/should be the clear difference in terms of actual mechanics, between Instigator, Destroyer, and Sentine?
What clear strengths and weaknesses should be expected from an Instigator, Destroyer and Sentinel?
What encounters should be redesigned in terms of effects or efficiency?
What new effects, buffs/debuffs could be used exclusively by the fighters? (ex. heal debuffing? stamina debuffing? etc etc..)
...and finally, how should the ROLE of the GF and the GWF be redefined, if necessary? Should the GWF always be able to tank as much, or even better than the GF as in mod2? Should the GF damage/attack efficiency be much more limited than the GWF? What CLEAR differences should be in those two classes? Is there a reason for them to be separate as a class if people want both classes to be both awesome tanks and great attackers at the same time?
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
Yea, and I wonder how many GWFs would be left by Mod 7...
GWF is still one of the most wanted classes and that's pretty easy to observe just by watching the view/posts up in the Preview thread for GWFs, however the number of GWFs I come across in game doesn't seem to justify the number/ratio up at the post, and the obvious reason would be, a good portion of GWF players, although still love this class, found this class way too disadvantage in both PvP and PvE, many has then chosen the easier path of playing another easier classes.
One of the main reasons why the good old style GWF's takedown/indo strike has been dead in the game is because there is nothing in the game that helps you connect your indominitable strike, takedown and frontline are nice, but with critical severity, those two skills become a joke, they deal little damage, and can only stun the opponent for like 0.5 second or less, it just doesn't allow the GWFs to connect any combo, by taken away the ability to prone, a good bit of GWF's synergy/combos just die out. Sadly when I see any GWF using Takedown or Frontline now, they usually get murdered by other classes, because those two skills just doesn't provide enough dmg nor synergy to combo other skills.
I believe one of the biggest problems of GWFs is that, our cooldowns are too long, as mentioned by many others, after we burst out our damage in a few seconds, we become a sitting duck running around hitting like a wet noodle, and with many other classes' ability to regen/heal/dodge/shield, if we dont knock them down in a combo, that means we get knocked! Unfortunately, we are forced to play it this way, and we do NOT want to play GWF like this.
I believe a good way to improve GWFs and make it more fun is to buff up encounters that has shorter cooldown either in control effect or damage (such as roar/takedown), this way it will allow the GWFs to consistently have a small encounter that deals some damage, and every 15~20 seconds or so have the chance of landing a more decent combo, because as a matter of fact, a GWF that does only sure strike, is not much to fear.
I hope the dev would review the cooldown on GWF's skills and make it either shorter cooldown with lesser damage or buffing shorter cooldown encounters to allow us to be more competitive while waiting for the big cooldowns, this would make GWF class more FUN and Competitive in both PvP and PvE!
Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
Bro, the GF has gotten some good lovin over the past 2 modules. Can't say the same for the GWF.
Yep. Thats why I'm nr 2 GF at leaderboard (1 is pvp kicking maestro you know who) and im at page 8.... Wake up!
Steel and Magic
I only PVE....
And GWFs don't get prone procs. They're 2s stuns against players. That's more than useless with tenacity and deflect.
Due to bad ELO, every second match I fight 9-12k PuGs. Yes, you will get a positive k/d ratio, but every similar geared TR or DC will laugh at your results. While I still have to fight and kill the enemy, a similar TR pops leg. DC artefact, runs into the enemy, chast whirlwind of blades and has one more triple kill under his belt.
And the problem is that ArPen doesn't follow the 400 points = 1% rule, unlike defense. At lvl 70 with 11809 def I get 29.5% DR, while 2671 ArPen gives me 27% RI. Sum it all up with my AC and CON and I get 45.5% DR vs 44.2% RI. So I got roughly 1% DR left were I to face someone with similar gears. So what about that def stacking? lol
If ArPen is going to stay that way then GWF is certainly dead in PvP.
A few things.
It will not be hard to get alot of ARP. Each maxed artifact has a potential for 1000 stats. Not to mention boons will probably be upgraded. Even if not, CWs have never been known for having the most ARP, other classes traditionally have much much more.
Defense is not going to be what people stack. Tenacity is actually a separate line item so 1% DR is actually much less than 1% DR. It will be common to have 30%+ tenacity. I think I have about 37% atm. Lets do some math!
10,000 comes in. with 80% ARP (8,000). You have 45% Defense and 35% tenacity (70% ARP resist).
10,000 comes in, mitigated by your 45% Defense MINUS his ARP over ARP resist (10%) for 6,500 damage THEN is mitigated by 35% Tenacity down to 4,225 as the FINAL damage.
The funny part is, what happens if you gain 1% DR?
10k initial becomes 6,400 then down to 4160 for the final. So 1% DR only REALLY gave you an extra .65% Therefore you will need about 615 Defense Stat (rank 12) to give you a TRUE 1% more DR. Compared with HP which will provide a FAR more effective value.
I see Defense and ARP both being something that will not be worth stacking in the slightest for PVP UNLESS your class has inherently high ARP through stats (like CON) for GWFs. However GWF is in such a bad stat I know I will be focusing less on ARP and stacking ARP artifacts and more on stacking Defensive artifacts.
Given we dont have ARP on our "Drow" Gear, and we only get what 8 offensive slots, its going to be a moot point to stack ARP for PVP. For Defense HP will be king.
And this will only get worse in Mod 6 because of the Tenacity buff. I fought a geared DC in Preview and using Indomitable Strike I could not knock him out of his Astral Shield. He literally fell at my feet as if he had just fallen over from a slight push. My GF using Bull Charge and IS could not even hit the same DC out of its Shield.
Mod 6 GWFs currently have no answer for an adequately geared PVP DC. And if that DC is using a Thunderhead, Terror and Break the Spirit, have fun. He'll just sit in his Astral Shield and LOL at you. Righteous DCs will melt you in seconds.
My wish is that the devs actually embrace these changes to the full and present the GWF accordingly.
For me, it feels like that they've made the decision to decisively define the class as a hybrid-style melee DPS rather than the old "great DPS, great tanking (otherwise known as 'deal-tanks' in the AoS genre)" concept people were familiar with since its rise to godhood in mod2. Since then everybody sought to define the GWF as a tanking class that is comparable to a GF, and still put up exciting levels of melee damage. Now, it seems the devs are simply getting rid of that.
So then, they can no longer wade into groups of enemies to become the 'vanguard' of the fight. OK. Fine. Then at least give them as much utilities, self-defense powers, unique-thematic powers as the HRs or the TRs. Both these classes are technically squishy in that they don't have high defense/DR stats. However, both make it up with a variety of powers that help with survival, to weaken foes, and etc etc.. On the contrary, the current skill/power sets the GWF has are more or less the remnant of the "old GWF"s when it was always the first to charge in among multiple enemies and hack and slash all around and fight on. An assortment of ... how do you say.. hmm.. sort of grandiose style of powers that are intended to be used while surrounded all around... prime example being stuff like Roar or CAGI/Initimidation type powers, etc etc..
But if the GWFs can no more do that, then by all means give their powers and encounters the technical aspect/effect/utility it deserves. Powers for active defense like countering, riposte... powers to boost mobility such as stamina buffing... faster stamina regen bursts... better and more effective controlling like more potent slows, lower CD on slow powers... etc etc..
GWF is in bad situation becouse of TRs- He and SW had the worst time ever against this class- they can be one shotted and they have practically 0 chances to defend themselves against TR, even now first target for TR like it always used to be is not CW, it is GWF becouse of this !#%@^26@#^&@#&&@# pircing damage which make this game bull**** becouse devensive characters can not exist becouse it is no matter you have 2k def or 10k def- wy have pircing damage. If TR and DC would be balanced i think GWF should be in good place in pvp.
Don't know nothing about mod 6. Everyone is scared about next Cryptic genius ideas....
Takedown - This needs to be turned back into a prone. It is short range and the primary follow up attack is very slow (IBS). With the increase to Tenacity this power is pretty much useless as a stun.
Roar - Add some utility to it. Roar now reduces your target's damage by 5% per point.
Punishing Charge - Change it completely to something like a GF's Bull Charge. Single charge power but now you rush at your target, stunning and slowing them for 'X' seconds.
Mighty Leap - Turn it into an AOE stun, much like Smoke Bomb.
Battle Fury - Your and your party's Damage is increased by 10% plus 5% per point (25% total). Your DR is also increased by 10%.
The Destroyer's Relentless Battle Fury feat should be moved into the Instigator's tree as that should be the more control and utility focused tree. However, the damage buff to Takedown and Roar should be converted into a flat out increase in Battle Fury's overall damage buff. Say 2/4/6/8/10%. In its place, the Destroyer tree can get a new single-target damage buff, maybe a buff to critical chance?
And these stuns should not be as ridiculous as the TRs (those should be looked at), but they should be just enough to give the GWF a chance.