You are wrong about not being squishy outside of stealth. Unless you think ITC is up all the time. The fact is once you slow a TR down in stealth, GWF will be able to constantly attack the TR, especially with your extended sprint.
Also, most if not all of TR damage that people are complaining about come from 3 things.
1. SoD multi procing
2. SE 1 shots (ignores DR)
3. Shadow Opportunity (piercing damage+bloodbath=bad)
Once these get taken away it is alot more balanced. I know I did the Exe path with Vorp. Try going against CW with shield, heal DC (or DPS DC for that matter), or geared GWF, using that build. Alot different outcomes
The reality is that bugs need to be fixed and then you can look at other things. However saying a TR is tanky without stealth is just wrong.
Finally, it appears other classes are getting buffs now so I don't want another situation where they nerf TR at the same time buffing other classes and the result is the Roaring GWF of mod 3.
I didn't say TRs are "tanky" out of stealth. I said they are not that squishy as they say, and just need to gear to get tankier. Most TRs claim they get one-roated easily but you know you can gear up to take more hits (may be except against CWs with glyphs).
As stated above DPS is not the only issue.
I'd say stop pretending your only way of fighting is to have perma or semi-perma stealth, OP movement speed buffs and multiple tools to avoid damage.
You want more HP? More DR? You can have it. It's useless. Multiple easy ways to avoid damage completely is more effective than any armor, you know it and that's why TRs are right now more survivable than fighters.
The point is easy. Stealth should be to move unnoticed before picking your target, Then you spike DPS. Then you are vulnerable, can get hit, must use dodges and time them to survive, and when in stealth you cannot move as fast as a T3 mount.
I'll ask again: would you like a GF who can move as fast as a T3 mount while holding block? No.
So stop pretending permastealth+light speed movement during stealth is needed or that buged DPS is the only problem.
There's the truth. Most daze issues are coming from Sabs as well, simply because you never see them. If you were to tweak Scoundrel dazes and leave Sabs alone, the TR complaints would still be through the roof. Nerf it to the ground and we'd all go Saboteur. I play my build because it is fun and still effective enough. Destroy it and I'm not above switching tactics.
To you too: problem lies in how long and how often you can stay in stealth and in the possibility to feat to move as fast as a T3 mount during stealth.
You would not accept a GF being able to move like a T3 mount while holding block.
You should understand why T3 mount speed while in stealth is unbalanced, and nonsense.
Videos are there.
Come on.
I don't consider myself good and won't be, i play day by day less matches and i don't have the money for rank 10s or the coming rank 12s, nor do i have my artifacts in orange, still with my low GS and only after a few days i could troll the battlefield easily on my TR, without much practice or playing it from beta.
Since i have all classes and played them all more or less on PVP, i may say, that TR is so easy, compared to other classes and is by far the best designed class for this game's action system.
Who uses First Strike? Well me and many of those PUG players, who the elitist and super cheating premades look down. It is easy as hell i go there with stealth on, land it and bang, enemy dead. If not and some of his buddies come around, i just put a smoke bomb behind me and they can't follow me or i use my ITC and bang i am away. Sure i too witnessed "players", and even talked with one of those highly praised PVP guildies, how they can see me through stealth, if i am a mile away or melt me through ITC. But the answer if i would write it here down would get my post deleted for describing these "methods" or would bring out from those highly praised PVP guilds a riot.
Sure the entire exe tree is more vulnerable and more into a big, huge 1 shot, while others are more into smaller ones and constant stealth. It is your game style, which path you take and you can be successful with both.
Since a few days i play my warlock and this is my 3rd try with the poor class, i have deleted 2 warlocks, since it came out, this is my 3rd try, i will keep her now for AD and AD farming in PVE, but boy is she a weakling, when it comes to PVP, no wonder all warlocks are down the ladder and have very negative stats on this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> leader board.
And please learn it dear premade players, if we PUGs weren't here, there would be no easy prey to slaughter and please don't come to me, you from those 2-3 top notch PVP guilds, you don't do it, cause then i will have to show my log, all in there. And no penalty, not for leaving, not in the ranking board position, but this is another grey zone thing, which i can't write here down.
PVP is not just for those PVP guilds it should be here for all of us and all our fun, so stop spitting on PUGs opinions!
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Do you know how expensive it is to be able to run as fast as a T3 Mount as a TR? The prices are way up there.
Dark enchantment rank 10s are very expensive. It takes serious grinding to get that kind of cash. And to move that fast, you need to use BOTH class feat slots for skillful infiltrator and sneak attack. Let's not forget it's not completely permanent either, even if you're perma-stealth, stealth WILL run out if there is no enemy around. With both those feats slotted, there's no room for any others, especially tenacious concealment. Not everybody has the money for a full set of rank 10 dark enchants either.
I use Rank 7 dark enchants and run as fast as an 80% mount, but of course, it runs out. I dont even bother moving between places like that since I already have an 80% mount.
Stealth is a defensive mechanic, it is meant to be used for evasive-related actions. SLOWING the movement speed during stealth defeats the purpose altogether. What if you stealth within 1ft of the enemy? They can still see you and follow you, and eventually kill you before you even get away. Don't forget that Lantern artifact that also grants another few ft of visibility.
Again, I repeat my point, no classes are overpowered. Every single player plays their class their own way and some are simply better at it than others. The ones who are outgeared, or don't know their class will of course complain when they get killed over and over - especially by the same class.
One last thing, I think SW needs a buff. I find them to be straight up free kills.
I didn't say TRs are "tanky" out of stealth. I said they are not that squishy as they say, and just need to gear to get tankier. Most TRs claim they get one-roated easily but you know you can gear up to take more hits (may be except against CWs with glyphs).
I just uploaded some time ago just to disprove the wide claim that they are squishy out of stealth.
0.20-2.10. Gf and GWF chase 17k Tr.Out of 15 encounters and dailies i normally hit him 2 times.The rest 13 were dodged ,deflected or in ITC.
Trs are squishy.yea sure.
6.20 -8.20.Same story. So much deflect in both cases he broke up from crescendo.lol.
"We are squishy if you catch us" "we need our stealth"
I just uploaded some time ago just to disprove the wide claim that they are squishy out of stealth.
0.20-2.10. Gf and GWF chase 17k Tr.Out of 15 encounters and dailies i normally hit him 2 times.The rest 13 were dodged ,deflected or in ITC.
Trs are squishy.yea sure.
6.20 -8.20.Same story. So much deflect in both cases he broke up from crescendo.lol.
"We are squishy if you catch us" "we need our stealth"
lets assume we have a tr with 35% deflect and a cw with 10%.
lets assume this cw is wearing a medium shield 50% unmitigable DR.
let's assume a hit would score 1 damage.
let's assume both have enough armor pen to void the stacked defense throught items.
10 hits samples:
TR
1x0.25x3 + 1*7 = 7.75 damage received
CW
1x0.5x0.5 + 1*7*0.5 = 3.75 damage received
and lack of range and set with HP.
if you ever played a tr you know you are dead once someone can see you.
lets assume this cw is wearing a medium shield 50% unmitigable DR.
Unless CW shield has recently changed, CW shield does not give contant damage reduction.
The damage reduction becomes less after a hit. After some time, the shield recovers to max damage reduction.
The shield make a loud sound when it is diminished and when it recovers to max.
Also, shield is an encounter power. CW with shield only has 3 other encounter powers.
What does TR lose to get high deflect?
Now here is a simple mechanic that could change the entire meta of PVP right now. Code the nodes so that a TR in stealth doesn't contest it.
I was thinking the exact same thing for a while, surprised I even stumbled on this thread.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
Comments
I didn't say TRs are "tanky" out of stealth. I said they are not that squishy as they say, and just need to gear to get tankier. Most TRs claim they get one-roated easily but you know you can gear up to take more hits (may be except against CWs with glyphs).
As stated above DPS is not the only issue.
I'd say stop pretending your only way of fighting is to have perma or semi-perma stealth, OP movement speed buffs and multiple tools to avoid damage.
You want more HP? More DR? You can have it. It's useless. Multiple easy ways to avoid damage completely is more effective than any armor, you know it and that's why TRs are right now more survivable than fighters.
The point is easy. Stealth should be to move unnoticed before picking your target, Then you spike DPS. Then you are vulnerable, can get hit, must use dodges and time them to survive, and when in stealth you cannot move as fast as a T3 mount.
I'll ask again: would you like a GF who can move as fast as a T3 mount while holding block? No.
So stop pretending permastealth+light speed movement during stealth is needed or that buged DPS is the only problem.
To you too: problem lies in how long and how often you can stay in stealth and in the possibility to feat to move as fast as a T3 mount during stealth.
You would not accept a GF being able to move like a T3 mount while holding block.
You should understand why T3 mount speed while in stealth is unbalanced, and nonsense.
Videos are there.
Come on.
Since i have all classes and played them all more or less on PVP, i may say, that TR is so easy, compared to other classes and is by far the best designed class for this game's action system.
Who uses First Strike? Well me and many of those PUG players, who the elitist and super cheating premades look down. It is easy as hell i go there with stealth on, land it and bang, enemy dead. If not and some of his buddies come around, i just put a smoke bomb behind me and they can't follow me or i use my ITC and bang i am away. Sure i too witnessed "players", and even talked with one of those highly praised PVP guildies, how they can see me through stealth, if i am a mile away or melt me through ITC. But the answer if i would write it here down would get my post deleted for describing these "methods" or would bring out from those highly praised PVP guilds a riot.
Sure the entire exe tree is more vulnerable and more into a big, huge 1 shot, while others are more into smaller ones and constant stealth. It is your game style, which path you take and you can be successful with both.
Since a few days i play my warlock and this is my 3rd try with the poor class, i have deleted 2 warlocks, since it came out, this is my 3rd try, i will keep her now for AD and AD farming in PVE, but boy is she a weakling, when it comes to PVP, no wonder all warlocks are down the ladder and have very negative stats on this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> leader board.
And please learn it dear premade players, if we PUGs weren't here, there would be no easy prey to slaughter and please don't come to me, you from those 2-3 top notch PVP guilds, you don't do it, cause then i will have to show my log, all in there. And no penalty, not for leaving, not in the ranking board position, but this is another grey zone thing, which i can't write here down.
PVP is not just for those PVP guilds it should be here for all of us and all our fun, so stop spitting on PUGs opinions!
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
you forgot knife's edge proccing multiple times on bloodbath
Dark enchantment rank 10s are very expensive. It takes serious grinding to get that kind of cash. And to move that fast, you need to use BOTH class feat slots for skillful infiltrator and sneak attack. Let's not forget it's not completely permanent either, even if you're perma-stealth, stealth WILL run out if there is no enemy around. With both those feats slotted, there's no room for any others, especially tenacious concealment. Not everybody has the money for a full set of rank 10 dark enchants either.
I use Rank 7 dark enchants and run as fast as an 80% mount, but of course, it runs out. I dont even bother moving between places like that since I already have an 80% mount.
Stealth is a defensive mechanic, it is meant to be used for evasive-related actions. SLOWING the movement speed during stealth defeats the purpose altogether. What if you stealth within 1ft of the enemy? They can still see you and follow you, and eventually kill you before you even get away. Don't forget that Lantern artifact that also grants another few ft of visibility.
Again, I repeat my point, no classes are overpowered. Every single player plays their class their own way and some are simply better at it than others. The ones who are outgeared, or don't know their class will of course complain when they get killed over and over - especially by the same class.
One last thing, I think SW needs a buff. I find them to be straight up free kills.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s417x_vAaZU
I just uploaded some time ago just to disprove the wide claim that they are squishy out of stealth.
0.20-2.10. Gf and GWF chase 17k Tr.Out of 15 encounters and dailies i normally hit him 2 times.The rest 13 were dodged ,deflected or in ITC.
Trs are squishy.yea sure.
6.20 -8.20.Same story. So much deflect in both cases he broke up from crescendo.lol.
"We are squishy if you catch us" "we need our stealth"
lets assume we have a tr with 35% deflect and a cw with 10%.
lets assume this cw is wearing a medium shield 50% unmitigable DR.
let's assume a hit would score 1 damage.
let's assume both have enough armor pen to void the stacked defense throught items.
10 hits samples:
TR
1x0.25x3 + 1*7 = 7.75 damage received
CW
1x0.5x0.5 + 1*7*0.5 = 3.75 damage received
and lack of range and set with HP.
if you ever played a tr you know you are dead once someone can see you.
Unless CW shield has recently changed, CW shield does not give contant damage reduction.
The damage reduction becomes less after a hit. After some time, the shield recovers to max damage reduction.
The shield make a loud sound when it is diminished and when it recovers to max.
Also, shield is an encounter power. CW with shield only has 3 other encounter powers.
What does TR lose to get high deflect?
I was thinking the exact same thing for a while, surprised I even stumbled on this thread.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread