running like weasels in stealth is a nativ ability for Rogues, makes totally sense being fast as lighning while sneeking arround in stealth.... at least for the devs in neverwinter who might have had a funny day when programmed this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>...
even permastealth is something that i saw first time in neverwinter, until that day i only knew: stealth, attack from stealth--> stealth over visible for rest of fight after hitting hard with one encounter, that was DND for me, but snice i am not a DND pro i am allways able to learn
btw cryptic did u read or hear about warlocks who can throw meteors from sky that stunn everyone for at least 6 seconds, pushes them to the ground and after this slows and silences them, putting a heavy dot to these worms that burn them to hell
u really should get that implemeted in your game, it is a must have....have fun
it sure sounds like another TR nerf thread, starting with the title. Which is also a lie. TRs haven't been top PvP since mod2. The GWF had their mod, and so did the CW and HR. Based on that alone I wasn't going to reply to anything else you're talking about, but I'll give it a try.
If you spec for it. But it comes at a price, like everything else. Take advantage of the price he paid for that -almost-perma-stealth and you can beat them. I can on a HR, CW and non-perma TR, and I'm not even that good. Might take an effort and choosing the right skills, but it's far from impossible.
Sure. If you also do the same with a GF blocking, a HR in melee stance, a GWF in unstoppable mode, the SW as long as he's got a soul puppet, a CW wearing a shield, a DC in divinity mode and the Paladin in whatever-mode-he's-got. After all, you're not asking for a TR nerf, are you?
That I agree with. But this isn't the way. The only way to truly balance PvP is by using the rock-paper-scissors-lizard-spock method in a proper fashion. The HR was the lizard to the TR spock for a while, but.. well we all know what happened with that. Let's not get into the fiasco that was the class makeover act.
Considering the conclusions you jump to in your post it's obvious you are a PVEer, based on that easily deduced assumption I'll explain some simple things about PVP to you as simply as possible so you can grasp the mechanics.
1) I would put the perma stealth TRs I know up against any character you chose to bring and watch them dance on your corpse over and over again, they sacrifice nothing, they are the Gods of 1v1 and 1v2's the fact you are unaware of this is what gives away the fact that you are not a PVPer.
2) I have already addressed this issue of stealth vs. GF blocking, etc. twice in this very forum post but you are obviously too lazy to read anything else that has been posted here and I'm not going to do the work for you.
3) There is no rock, paper, scissors, we're all paper and TRs are scissors.
4) There is no nerf proposed in my initial post, if you even bothered to read it, it is a change in PVP mechanics not in the classes ability to perform. You are crying here because you want me to scream "NERF TR" but I am not doing that in this post, I'm addressing a potential idea to change the paradigm for PVP. I have posted elsewhere that I feel the TR needs to be balanced and I will continue to do so until it is addressed.
Next time you decide to post on a forum try to read the forum posts you're discussing before you begin showing that you haven't done exactly that.
Thanks for your original reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
fair suggestion. at the same time make it so that GWF can't go in unstoppable on nodes and DC can't put down astral shield. Or else you replace one class with another.
If the TR is stealthed then it won't show as contested and the TR can actually assassinate and fulfill his role but he can't perma contest the node forever in stealth or ITC...
Also, even if PM PVP is a minority, do I not have the right to speak? Please let's refrain from telling the minority they shouldn't be listened to.
Thanks for your reply.
I did not say you couldn't speak.
I stated a fact and then, I asked a question about how much effort should be put forth for a niche group within a minority.
I do not think you understood either of my questions.
If i am capping and a rogue comes on point while i am capping...the capping stops, the icon changes from blue to 1/2 blue..1/2 red. At this point you know someone else is on node due to the contention. If rogues cannot contest you remove this visual cue.
I did not say you couldn't speak.
I stated a fact and then, I asked a question about how much effort should be put forth for a niche group within a minority.
I do not think you understood either of my questions.
If i am capping and a rogue comes on point while i am capping...the capping stops, the icon changes from blue to 1/2 blue..1/2 red. At this point you know someone else is on node due to the contention. If rogues cannot contest you remove this visual cue.
I understood both and answered both.
Thanks for your re-reply
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
Then this is a worse idea than i thought. Rogues can just go up and murder anyone standing on the node with next to no cues where they are...and they are visible while they cap? c'mon the only one that might barely hurt is whisperknives.
When you stealth your BASE run speed is now equivalent to a GF holding block. If you want to run faster you need to feat accordingly.
Why is it that TRs can outrun epic mounts while they are stealthed? This is part of what makes the class imbalanced is their ability to not JUST stealth or even attack while in stealth but the ability to move around un-catchable and not visible while stealthed.
THey already have amazing burst damage now, all you need to do to make them balanced now is to slow their runspeed down just a fraction while IN stealth. (again on par with a GF blocking).
Agreed. "Just a fraction" might not be enught tho. An out of Stealth Scoundrel has escaped my full stamina sprint with nearly equal start thanks to his movement speed + dodges. My T-Rush basically rubberbands me back every time I lunge cause he is out of range by the time the animation starts. Movement speed/mobility is very big in PVP. Im actually a bit surprised not many people talk about it.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
well lets be fair.... we can do it for class features. it's not like they are giving us something for free.
i would LOVE to have damaging class features.
Like First Strike? Imagine that on an Intimidation Sentinel with 12k Power and perfect vorpal. He'll wipe the whole node in a single blow. And its not like Skillful Infiltrator is just utility, it provides +%Crit Chance which translates into more damage. Get real will ya
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
If the TR is stealthed then it won't show as contested and the TR can actually assassinate and fulfill his role but he can't perma contest the node forever in stealth or ITC...
Also, even if PM PVP is a minority, do I not have the right to speak? Please let's refrain from telling the minority they shouldn't be listened to.
Thanks for your reply.
Aye, this little detail may provoke a sh*t storm. The color coding of the node gives you a hint about a hidden rogue and then you're on your guard. If that goes away many unlucky folk will park their mounted bums to cap only to be 1hit killed from stealth.
Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
First off, I'd like to admit I am fairly new to this particular MMO. As such, any suggestions I might make should be taken with a grain of salt. I have been playing MMO's for years, and particularly enjoy pvp. Most of my experience comes from WoW, though I have played many MMO's, and MOBA's over the years. The concept of rogues "permastealthing", is an interesting one in this game. While many games allow you to perpetually remain in stealth (with or without a speed reduction), the ease of returning to stealth or maintaining stealth despite being in combat is, at least in my experience, unique to this game.
Though this is a different game, I believe a solution might be present in the capture system used in WoW's version of the "king of the hill" pvp map. In order to capture the base as a rogue in said game, one must interact with the flag for a few seconds, which un-stealths the rogue. After the flag is interacted with, it becomes "contested" for a few seconds before being captured, during which the opposing team may interact with and "defend" the location, which returns it to the holding team's control. Assuming it is not defended, the point gets captured by the opposing team. It would change the passive capturing and defending mechanic of current into an active one.
Like First Strike? Imagine that on an Intimidation Sentinel with 12k Power and perfect vorpal. He'll wipe the whole node in a single blow. And its not like Skillful Infiltrator is just utility, it provides +%Crit Chance which translates into more damage. Get real will ya
....lets do the example bravery >> skillful infiltrator (+3% crit chance at lv 3.....yaii)
trample the fallen > first strike.
you have to leave combat for 10 seconds to have first strike avaiable again.
its a **** trap class feature
if the meta forces you to intimidation does not mean the cf isnt good. Tell me whats the use of first strike? however that was not the point of the thread i m just saying that movement speed is the only thing they will ever give to trs as class features because something else would be too much.
then it was to compare <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>...i could say destroyer
We can actually debate guys all day and while i think threads help, let's be honest we all have opened so many threads or answer to many as we want as long as DEVs and Management show no interest in fixing it, it will "shrink" out day by day.
Yesterday had to wait over half an hour for a single match and we were asking each other in Zone chat to come and join so we can play at least.
PVP in this game has such a bad name- which is sadly correct-, that not even newbies van be persuaded to join a match. Now even the daily AD isn't a lure anymore.
Yesterdays example, 4 TRs 1 HR or 3 TRs 2 DCs on enemy team, shall i continue., no need to...
This is not PVP anymore this is TR playground ( i have all classes, TR too, so don't bash on me pls), i mean who the hell enjoys it being 1 shot by 10 year old kiddies roaming the battleground with easy TR and a 12k can kill a 20K+ GS 50K+ GF with 1 or 2 shots.
And DEVs know it, they do since long time, but as long as they don't act, all complaining is only a ventilation for us, to let out the steam.
Just 1 really important example, if this would be a tiny bit based on real DnD and not just a logo, then we would have true sight either for some chars, NPCs or nodes. Perma <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> wouldn't even exist, never should have been.
TR is very problematic and here i won't say a bad word against DEVs, only at Management, cause this is their table. Catch 22 situation! Too many PVP players and players generally are now only TRs, so they will never do anything to bring balance to game and especially to PVP- TR wise-, cause then all the 80% of PVP players, who are TRs would leave and money would leave as well.
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
If you're a good TR I doubt you're using first strike, stealth is more important imo
and it's not nice too laugh obnoxiously at people, will keep others from posting their feedback.
....lets do the example bravery >> skillful infiltrator (+3% crit chance at lv 3.....yaii)
trample the fallen > first strike.
you have to leave combat for 10 seconds to have first strike avaiable again.
its a **** trap class feature
Wow, just.. wow. Bravery > skillful...this would be true if you didn't already have 100% crit chance.
Trample the fallen > first strike... tell this to any class who's ever been one shotted by LB from stealth pffft.
You also have other really good passives like Invisible infiltrator and tactics, both add to your lethality. You Daily and get your stealth back or you build dailies even faster than you already do. The idea that you can only use speed buffs as passives is simply not true.
TRs have the most ability to experiment of basically any class right now in PVP. Most all other classes are locked into a specific paragon tree with a very specific and tailored build.
However, none of this actually applies to the original post about changing PVP mechanics and a discussion on how to make a paradigm shift in PVP strategy.
Thanks for your insightful reply.
On ambush rings: "How would you like PVE if all the mobs were invisible?"
its a bonus damage most of the time wasted on shadow strike that only proc once for the whole combat time...
keep thinking its good i have yet to see a tr praising it.
and who the hell jackedbrah is?
"
You also have other really good passives like Invisible infiltrator and tactics, both add to your lethality. You Daily and get your stealth back or you build dailies even faster than you already do. The idea that you can only use speed buffs as passives is simply not true."
all stuffs that proc once you use a daily...go check what cw thinks of their new class features.
for what is worth i go sneak attack , invisible infiltrator. i would rather go with 1 class feature than slotting first strike.
however we are discussing balancing with someone exploiting the **** out of shadow of demise so i dont think we will come to the useful conclusion...like always.
Claims to be in one of the two big pvp guilds which would be odd that he would use an alternate account. Most likely some pug who got access to pmvspm.
I'm in one of the two guilds you worship. gimme your ingame name and I'll add you and then I'll bring you in a premade for laughs and just see how miserable you will do you forum warrior.
but hey, being the forum warrior you are, you will dodge that challenge AGAIN and just reply with a generic, predictable statement.
One shot wonders don't win matches. I don't know any TRs who slot it who aren't just playing for a big hit thrill or abusing the hell out of SoD.
What does? Perma-stealth? Perma-daze? Everything combined? If this tactic is so useless, why would anyone defend it in the first place? Being one hit killed is not fun, believe me, I have no ITC nor dodge on my SW.
M6 almost drains your soul given how boring it is. (c) joocycuzzzzzz
I've been talking about TR mobility issues since the beginning of module 5. That video just makes it as clear as day, just like videos of lashing blade almost one-shotting tanks or SE oneshotting GWFs with no way to avoid it (sprint and Unstoppable useless).
First: TR run speed is reduced by 50% when in stealth.
New class feat: instead of 50%, when in stealth your run speed is reduced by 45-40-35-30-25%.
New feat must be placed so that to get it you must give up a part of your DPS.
You can feat to move in stealth keeping 25% more mobility.
That is balanced.
Just like for GF block, a great protection for long periods of time must come with a reduced mobility.
The T3 mount movement speed+long rolls during stealth is not a fair mechanic and you know it perfectly. It's <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. You would not accept a GF able to keep block up and move at T3 mount speed.
Holy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> you can move almost as fast as a GWF sprinting or SW zooming, and you can do it for quite longer. Are you serious. And while you're invisible.
I've discussed the issue before, that it was not just "stealth" making the TR too survivable, but the incredible mobility coming with it. Considering TRs can gear up to be not that squishy (despite a big part of the class trying to say they are sooooo squishy), stealth mechanic plus mobility made them in the past, and make them now, the most survivable class. Along with the monster damage.
To me, mechanic is quite simple. Either:
TR can move in stealth slowly to not get attacked till they engage a target.
Deal high DPS (not one shots).
Then time their dodges to survive. They do it good, they can survive. Enemy is good or they mess up, they get hit.
Plus build to be tankier. You guys know you are not that squishy and can get a few hits if not build to be a glass cannon.
Then you can go back to stealth and use it to prepare your next attack with your single target DPS spikes.
Depending on build instead of dealing monster damage you can daze- CC or hit from range exc... and deal less DPS while adding utility to your attacks.
You guys know exactly where you have too many tools. Accept it and give proper feedback instead of defending broken mechanics. That kind of movement speed might be balanced on a build that has very VERY limited time in stealth, to specialize in fighting melee fighters while being visible.
Then you can have a movement speed increase. Not more movement speed during stealth. That's nonsense.
I've been talking about TR mobility issues since the beginning of module 5. That video just makes it as clear as day, just like videos of lashing blade almost one-shotting tanks or SE oneshotting GWFs with no way to avoid it (sprint and Unstoppable useless).
First: TR run speed is reduced by 50% when in stealth.
New class feat: instead of 50%, when in stealth your run speed is reduced by 45-40-35-30-25%.
New feat must be placed so that to get it you must give up a part of your DPS.
That is balanced.
The T3 mount movement speed+long rolls during stealth is not. It's <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
I've discussed the issue before, that it was not just "stealth" making the TR too survivable, but the incredible mobility coming with it. Considering TRs can gear up to be not that squishy (despite a big part of the class trying to say they are sooooo squishy), stealth mechanic plus mobility made them in the past, and make them now, the most survivable class. Along with the monster damage.
To me, mechanic is quite simple. Either:
TR can move in stealth slowly to not get attacked till they engage a target.
Deal high DPS (not one shots).
Then time their dodges to survive. They do it good, they can survive. Enemy is good or they mess up, they get hit.
Plus build to be tankier. You guys know you are not that squishy and can get a few hits if not build to be a glass cannon.
Then you can go back to stealth and use it to prepare your next attack with your single target DPS spikes.
Depending on build instead of dealing monster damage you can daze- CC or hit from range exc... and deal less DPS while adding utility to your attacks.
You guys know exactly where you have too many tools. Accept it and give proper feedback instead of defending broken mechanics.
You are wrong about not being squishy outside of stealth. Unless you think ITC is up all the time. The fact is once you slow a TR down in stealth, GWF will be able to constantly attack the TR, especially with your extended sprint.
Also, most if not all of TR damage that people are complaining about come from 3 things.
1. SoD multi procing
2. SE 1 shots (ignores DR)
3. Shadow Opportunity (piercing damage+bloodbath=bad)
Once these get taken away it is alot more balanced. I know I did the Exe path with Vorp. Try going against CW with shield, heal DC (or DPS DC for that matter), or geared GWF, using that build. Alot different outcomes
The reality is that bugs need to be fixed and then you can look at other things. However saying a TR is tanky without stealth is just wrong.
Finally, it appears other classes are getting buffs now so I don't want another situation where they nerf TR at the same time buffing other classes and the result is the Roaring GWF of mod 3.
Comments
propose a new class feature i m curious.
even permastealth is something that i saw first time in neverwinter, until that day i only knew: stealth, attack from stealth--> stealth over visible for rest of fight after hitting hard with one encounter, that was DND for me, but snice i am not a DND pro i am allways able to learn
btw cryptic did u read or hear about warlocks who can throw meteors from sky that stunn everyone for at least 6 seconds, pushes them to the ground and after this slows and silences them, putting a heavy dot to these worms that burn them to hell
u really should get that implemeted in your game, it is a must have....have fun
Considering the conclusions you jump to in your post it's obvious you are a PVEer, based on that easily deduced assumption I'll explain some simple things about PVP to you as simply as possible so you can grasp the mechanics.
1) I would put the perma stealth TRs I know up against any character you chose to bring and watch them dance on your corpse over and over again, they sacrifice nothing, they are the Gods of 1v1 and 1v2's the fact you are unaware of this is what gives away the fact that you are not a PVPer.
2) I have already addressed this issue of stealth vs. GF blocking, etc. twice in this very forum post but you are obviously too lazy to read anything else that has been posted here and I'm not going to do the work for you.
3) There is no rock, paper, scissors, we're all paper and TRs are scissors.
4) There is no nerf proposed in my initial post, if you even bothered to read it, it is a change in PVP mechanics not in the classes ability to perform. You are crying here because you want me to scream "NERF TR" but I am not doing that in this post, I'm addressing a potential idea to change the paradigm for PVP. I have posted elsewhere that I feel the TR needs to be balanced and I will continue to do so until it is addressed.
Next time you decide to post on a forum try to read the forum posts you're discussing before you begin showing that you haven't done exactly that.
Thanks for your original reply.
I did not say you couldn't speak.
I stated a fact and then, I asked a question about how much effort should be put forth for a niche group within a minority.
I do not think you understood either of my questions.
If i am capping and a rogue comes on point while i am capping...the capping stops, the icon changes from blue to 1/2 blue..1/2 red. At this point you know someone else is on node due to the contention. If rogues cannot contest you remove this visual cue.
I understood both and answered both.
Thanks for your re-reply
Then this is a worse idea than i thought. Rogues can just go up and murder anyone standing on the node with next to no cues where they are...and they are visible while they cap? c'mon the only one that might barely hurt is whisperknives.
Agreed. "Just a fraction" might not be enught tho. An out of Stealth Scoundrel has escaped my full stamina sprint with nearly equal start thanks to his movement speed + dodges. My T-Rush basically rubberbands me back every time I lunge cause he is out of range by the time the animation starts. Movement speed/mobility is very big in PVP. Im actually a bit surprised not many people talk about it.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Like First Strike? Imagine that on an Intimidation Sentinel with 12k Power and perfect vorpal. He'll wipe the whole node in a single blow. And its not like Skillful Infiltrator is just utility, it provides +%Crit Chance which translates into more damage. Get real will ya
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Aye, this little detail may provoke a sh*t storm. The color coding of the node gives you a hint about a hidden rogue and then you're on your guard. If that goes away many unlucky folk will park their mounted bums to cap only to be 1hit killed from stealth.
Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
Though this is a different game, I believe a solution might be present in the capture system used in WoW's version of the "king of the hill" pvp map. In order to capture the base as a rogue in said game, one must interact with the flag for a few seconds, which un-stealths the rogue. After the flag is interacted with, it becomes "contested" for a few seconds before being captured, during which the opposing team may interact with and "defend" the location, which returns it to the holding team's control. Assuming it is not defended, the point gets captured by the opposing team. It would change the passive capturing and defending mechanic of current into an active one.
....lets do the example bravery >> skillful infiltrator (+3% crit chance at lv 3.....yaii)
trample the fallen > first strike.
you have to leave combat for 10 seconds to have first strike avaiable again.
its a **** trap class feature
that's it I'm done.
if the meta forces you to intimidation does not mean the cf isnt good. Tell me whats the use of first strike? however that was not the point of the thread i m just saying that movement speed is the only thing they will ever give to trs as class features because something else would be too much.
then it was to compare <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> with <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>...i could say destroyer
One hit a player once in a few seconds.
Yesterday had to wait over half an hour for a single match and we were asking each other in Zone chat to come and join so we can play at least.
PVP in this game has such a bad name- which is sadly correct-, that not even newbies van be persuaded to join a match. Now even the daily AD isn't a lure anymore.
Yesterdays example, 4 TRs 1 HR or 3 TRs 2 DCs on enemy team, shall i continue., no need to...
This is not PVP anymore this is TR playground ( i have all classes, TR too, so don't bash on me pls), i mean who the hell enjoys it being 1 shot by 10 year old kiddies roaming the battleground with easy TR and a 12k can kill a 20K+ GS 50K+ GF with 1 or 2 shots.
And DEVs know it, they do since long time, but as long as they don't act, all complaining is only a ventilation for us, to let out the steam.
Just 1 really important example, if this would be a tiny bit based on real DnD and not just a logo, then we would have true sight either for some chars, NPCs or nodes. Perma <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> wouldn't even exist, never should have been.
TR is very problematic and here i won't say a bad word against DEVs, only at Management, cause this is their table. Catch 22 situation! Too many PVP players and players generally are now only TRs, so they will never do anything to bring balance to game and especially to PVP- TR wise-, cause then all the 80% of PVP players, who are TRs would leave and money would leave as well.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Lmaoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
How low TR stoop to defend their ****ing cowardly class never ceases to amaze me. God dam ****ing LOL.
Guardian Fighter main. I will never switch to Paladin even if we're a dying breed. GF for ever!
Main alts: Great Weapon Fighter, Control Wizard.
i lost it at "trample the fallen > first strike" too
that's just hilarious
and it's not nice too laugh obnoxiously at people, will keep others from posting their feedback.
SAMOTHRACE
Trickster Rogue
────────────────────────────
Wow, just.. wow. Bravery > skillful...this would be true if you didn't already have 100% crit chance.
Trample the fallen > first strike... tell this to any class who's ever been one shotted by LB from stealth pffft.
You also have other really good passives like Invisible infiltrator and tactics, both add to your lethality. You Daily and get your stealth back or you build dailies even faster than you already do. The idea that you can only use speed buffs as passives is simply not true.
TRs have the most ability to experiment of basically any class right now in PVP. Most all other classes are locked into a specific paragon tree with a very specific and tailored build.
However, none of this actually applies to the original post about changing PVP mechanics and a discussion on how to make a paradigm shift in PVP strategy.
Thanks for your insightful reply.
keep thinking its good i have yet to see a tr praising it.
and who the hell jackedbrah is?
"
You also have other really good passives like Invisible infiltrator and tactics, both add to your lethality. You Daily and get your stealth back or you build dailies even faster than you already do. The idea that you can only use speed buffs as passives is simply not true."
all stuffs that proc once you use a daily...go check what cw thinks of their new class features.
for what is worth i go sneak attack , invisible infiltrator. i would rather go with 1 class feature than slotting first strike.
however we are discussing balancing with someone exploiting the **** out of shadow of demise so i dont think we will come to the useful conclusion...like always.
Claims to be in one of the two big pvp guilds which would be odd that he would use an alternate account. Most likely some pug who got access to pmvspm.
What does? Perma-stealth? Perma-daze? Everything combined? If this tactic is so useless, why would anyone defend it in the first place? Being one hit killed is not fun, believe me, I have no ITC nor dodge on my SW.
I've been talking about TR mobility issues since the beginning of module 5. That video just makes it as clear as day, just like videos of lashing blade almost one-shotting tanks or SE oneshotting GWFs with no way to avoid it (sprint and Unstoppable useless).
First: TR run speed is reduced by 50% when in stealth.
New class feat: instead of 50%, when in stealth your run speed is reduced by 45-40-35-30-25%.
New feat must be placed so that to get it you must give up a part of your DPS.
You can feat to move in stealth keeping 25% more mobility.
That is balanced.
Just like for GF block, a great protection for long periods of time must come with a reduced mobility.
The T3 mount movement speed+long rolls during stealth is not a fair mechanic and you know it perfectly. It's <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. You would not accept a GF able to keep block up and move at T3 mount speed.
Holy <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> you can move almost as fast as a GWF sprinting or SW zooming, and you can do it for quite longer. Are you serious. And while you're invisible.
I've discussed the issue before, that it was not just "stealth" making the TR too survivable, but the incredible mobility coming with it. Considering TRs can gear up to be not that squishy (despite a big part of the class trying to say they are sooooo squishy), stealth mechanic plus mobility made them in the past, and make them now, the most survivable class. Along with the monster damage.
To me, mechanic is quite simple. Either:
TR can move in stealth slowly to not get attacked till they engage a target.
Deal high DPS (not one shots).
Then time their dodges to survive. They do it good, they can survive. Enemy is good or they mess up, they get hit.
Plus build to be tankier. You guys know you are not that squishy and can get a few hits if not build to be a glass cannon.
Then you can go back to stealth and use it to prepare your next attack with your single target DPS spikes.
Depending on build instead of dealing monster damage you can daze- CC or hit from range exc... and deal less DPS while adding utility to your attacks.
You guys know exactly where you have too many tools. Accept it and give proper feedback instead of defending broken mechanics. That kind of movement speed might be balanced on a build that has very VERY limited time in stealth, to specialize in fighting melee fighters while being visible.
Then you can have a movement speed increase. Not more movement speed during stealth. That's nonsense.
You are wrong about not being squishy outside of stealth. Unless you think ITC is up all the time. The fact is once you slow a TR down in stealth, GWF will be able to constantly attack the TR, especially with your extended sprint.
Also, most if not all of TR damage that people are complaining about come from 3 things.
1. SoD multi procing
2. SE 1 shots (ignores DR)
3. Shadow Opportunity (piercing damage+bloodbath=bad)
Once these get taken away it is alot more balanced. I know I did the Exe path with Vorp. Try going against CW with shield, heal DC (or DPS DC for that matter), or geared GWF, using that build. Alot different outcomes
The reality is that bugs need to be fixed and then you can look at other things. However saying a TR is tanky without stealth is just wrong.
Finally, it appears other classes are getting buffs now so I don't want another situation where they nerf TR at the same time buffing other classes and the result is the Roaring GWF of mod 3.