This is not the final form.. I'm sure.. I mean they have a Heroic Feat to give them two stat sources for Critical Chance. No way that stays in the released version. As every DSP class would also revolt.
This is not the final form.. I'm sure.. I mean they have a Heroic Feat to give them two stat sources for Critical Chance. No way that stays in the released version. As every DSP class would also revolt.
How would Every other class revolt wisdom already gives them crit and they have to sacrifice 3 points that could have gone into the constitution stat to get at most a few extra crit they already lack Armor pen and Bonus dmg stats let them keep there 2 sources of crit chance.
Gang Busters PvP Guild Recruiting When Mod 6 goes live Pm Me for more Info If you have any Paladin question Message Me and i will get back to you ASAP
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
How would Every other class revolt wisdom already gives them crit and they have to sacrifice 3 points that could have gone into the constitution stat to get at most a few extra crit they already lack Armor pen and Bonus dmg stats let them keep there 2 sources of crit chance.
NA i still would not go human the way this class triggers the tiefling racial on multiple targets
Gang Busters PvP Guild Recruiting When Mod 6 goes live Pm Me for more Info If you have any Paladin question Message Me and i will get back to you ASAP
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Been playing a paladin on preview, honestly they play very similar to the GF but has a few different quirks to get used to. It plays pretty much how I want and while I still want a one time class change for GF's what I've seen so far still would make me think long and hard as there are things that I still like about GF. I think that's all it really will come down to similar to what's been noted that it depends on the player and the party and how every one learns to work together.
Based on the tweaks to the Boss meters in Tiamat and the Tiamat encounter itself being a multi trash mob multi boss situation I believe we can just expect more of that and more tanking needed. Not to brag but watching the cleric health bars if I leave to help another cleric I can readily see the value of the tanking abilities I bring as a GF and only expect that a paladin should be very comparable in such an encounter. I think the people who are going to feel screwed are more run forward and mash the buttons types rather than trying to select appropriate powers for encounters and understand how to manage agro.
I think the people who are going to feel screwed are more run forward and mash the buttons types rather than trying to select appropriate powers for encounters and understand how to manage agro.
You clueless fool. Just log on preview and count how many Paladin's AoE and single target powers have hard taunt effect.
NA i still would not go human the way this class triggers the tiefling racial on multiple targets
Oh come on Voltomey, Infernal Wrath is totally weak sauce. It's a 10% chance that doesn't even reduce damage by flat 5% just power rating instead. It is quite honestly close to worthless.
The Tiefling Paladin's redeeming features are the ability to go CON and CHA stat spread and Blood Hunt. Even with these into consideration it falls short of it's Human and Dragonborn peers.
Oh come on Voltomey, Infernal Wrath is totally weak sauce. It's a 10% chance that doesn't even reduce damage by flat 5% just power rating instead. It is quite honestly close to worthless.
The Tiefling Paladin's redeeming features are the ability to go CON and CHA stat spread and Blood Hunt. Even with these into consideration it falls short of it's Human and Dragonborn peers.
Partly Tiefling is my fav race so its GG for me missing 3 in the con feat is not game breaking since power is getting nerfed any way so that power for HP isent really all that and a bag of chips.
Gang Busters PvP Guild Recruiting When Mod 6 goes live Pm Me for more Info If you have any Paladin question Message Me and i will get back to you ASAP
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You clueless fool. Just log on preview and count how many Paladin's AoE and single target powers have hard taunt effect.
I disagree the main thing I see a lot of are GF's screaming they can't agro. If you regularly use the tab key (hint the mark doesn't last), on the right encounters use enforced threat I wouldn't think you'd have problems. There is room for another tank class and I really don't think in the end it will be better or worse just different as opposed to say EQ where paladins weren't tanks weren't healers and just had problems the entire time I played.
I disagree the main thing I see a lot of are GF's screaming they can't agro. If you regularly use the tab key (hint the mark doesn't last), on the right encounters use enforced threat I wouldn't think you'd have problems. There is room for another tank class and I really don't think in the end it will be better or worse just different as opposed to say EQ where paladins weren't tanks weren't healers and just had problems the entire time I played.
Riiight. Good luck pulling aggro on anything if you happen to get in a team with a paladin. GF will be no more if Paladin pulls trough with all his hard taunts. Mark my words.
Riiight. Good luck pulling aggro on anything if you happen to get in a team with a paladin. GF will be no more if Paladin pulls trough with all his hard taunts. Mark my words.
The new system is has ben put in so that you will never be put into a group with a tank as a Tank OP same goes for if your in heal path and there a cleric in the group
Gang Busters PvP Guild Recruiting When Mod 6 goes live Pm Me for more Info If you have any Paladin question Message Me and i will get back to you ASAP
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
The new system is has ben put in so that you will never be put into a group with a tank as a Tank OP same goes for if your in heal path and there a cleric in the group
^This. People just don't get it (or pay attention to Devnotes.)
In PUG: If you get a Protector OP - you will NOT get a GF. If you get a Devotion OP you will NOT get a Cleric. And vice-versa. The only way to get both simultaneously of a class type (Healer/Tank) is to create a pre-made or in HEs, etc. Tiamat instance notwithstanding.
^This. People just don't get it (or pay attention to Devnotes.)
In PUG: If you get a Protector OP - you will NOT get a GF. If you get a Devotion OP you will NOT get a Cleric. And vice-versa. The only way to get both simultaneously of a class type (Healer/Tank) is to create a pre-made or in HEs, etc. Tiamat instance notwithstanding.
Doesn't apply in skirmishes. Neither does the system count Sentinel GWF as tank. And since Paladin has aoe hard taunts that can permamently lock targets in combat, GWF loses his secondary tank role and is left with nothing but glass cannon build.
Moreover, the fact remains, Paladin can tank more reliably than a GF and GWF combined ever could. He's got a crapton of hard taunts that are enough to perma tank a group of mobs/boss, along with 500% threat generation. Last time I checked GF can get a max of 340%. That's with mark, enhanced mark feature and a heroic feat granting threat. GWF can get even less. 200% threat with mark, intimidation buff and weapon master feature. Both classes need to slot powers for all this threat generation and refresh them all the time. Whereas Paladin gets his free 500% slotting and doing exactly nothing. Thus, he can slot buffs or heals disguised as shields/temp hp instead.
And btw, people still use random queue for dungeons?.. Last time I tried I waited an hour but nothing popped up. It's not relevant to talk about queue system when no-one uses it anymore.
^This. People just don't get it (or pay attention to Devnotes.)
In PUG: If you get a Protector OP - you will NOT get a GF. If you get a Devotion OP you will NOT get a Cleric. And vice-versa. The only way to get both simultaneously of a class type (Healer/Tank) is to create a pre-made or in HEs, etc. Tiamat instance notwithstanding.
I think more to the point who would take a GF if a Paladin is available? Outside of the matchmaking system....
Doesn't apply in skirmishes. Neither does the system count Sentinel GWF as tank. And since Paladin has aoe hard taunts that can permamently lock targets in combat, GWF loses his secondary tank role and is left with nothing but glass cannon build.
Moreover, the fact remains, Paladin can tank more reliably than a GF and GWF combined ever could. He's got a crapton of hard taunts that are enough to perma tank a group of mobs/boss, along with 500% threat generation. Last time I checked GF can get a max of 340%. That's with mark, enhanced mark feature and a heroic feat granting threat. GWF can get even less. 200% threat with mark, intimidation buff and weapon master feature. Both classes need to slot powers for all this threat generation and refresh them all the time. Whereas Paladin gets his free 500% slotting and doing exactly nothing. Thus, he can slot buffs or heals disguised as shields/temp hp instead.
And btw, people still use random queue for dungeons?.. Last time I tried I waited an hour but nothing popped up. It's not relevant to talk about queue system when no-one uses it anymore.
They system only apply to OP and only when the OP is pit against a GF cause GWF regardless of what three Trees it takes is still DPS this system Looks at the Paragon path of a OP as a whole not any of the single feat trees.
Gang Busters PvP Guild Recruiting When Mod 6 goes live Pm Me for more Info If you have any Paladin question Message Me and i will get back to you ASAP
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I would take a GF if a paladin was available. it's gonna be a while before there are any BiS 23-24k GS (or equivalent once mod 6 drops) paladins. I'd probably snag both, if the paladin was also reasonably geared, because I think those defensive buffs would interlock to extremely potent effect.
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schweifer1982Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,662Arc User
Doesn't apply in skirmishes. Neither does the system count Sentinel GWF as tank. And since Paladin has aoe hard taunts that can permamently lock targets in combat, GWF loses his secondary tank role and is left with nothing but glass cannon build.
Moreover, the fact remains, Paladin can tank more reliably than a GF and GWF combined ever could. He's got a crapton of hard taunts that are enough to perma tank a group of mobs/boss, along with 500% threat generation. Last time I checked GF can get a max of 340%. That's with mark, enhanced mark feature and a heroic feat granting threat. GWF can get even less. 200% threat with mark, intimidation buff and weapon master feature. Both classes need to slot powers for all this threat generation and refresh them all the time. Whereas Paladin gets his free 500% slotting and doing exactly nothing. Thus, he can slot buffs or heals disguised as shields/temp hp instead.
And btw, people still use random queue for dungeons?.. Last time I tried I waited an hour but nothing popped up. It's not relevant to talk about queue system when no-one uses it anymore.
MY gf hit whit at-will in green junk gear 4-5000 at wills my enforced hit around 5-6000 dmg in green junk with 340 % threat .
= 17000 threat or 20400 this is non crit dmg
MY GWF sentinel hit around 90000-120000 intimidation + bonus 50 % more threat .= 135000 - 180000 threat
Now let see pally if they dont doo anything to her dps he will not lead the threat list cuz her at-wills hit with green junk around 2-300
and her encounters do 70-70 or the biggest is around 400-600 with 500% threat 1500 on at wills 350 - 3000 threat on encounters non crit.
The only time pally will lead threat if he use they hard taunt skills or tab.
You argument have zero logic you come here w/o testing paladin .
Also i try it out whit my friend he have both GF(super weak)&GWF(much stonger then my GWF) i losed on both the agro i even lose the agro on my companion .
Just soo simple pally have zero dmg if you have zero dmg you cannot manage agro in long therm.
The biggest problem on devs side is they dont even understand hou threat work .
(best)CW do 12-14 mill dps (best) GF conq do 4 mill dps but 4 mill /+ 300% can get the agro .
(Best) CW do 12-14 mill dps (best) Prot/tacti do 2 mill dps / + 300% he cant hold the agro in long therm if they dont hit they lose it immediately.
GF need much more dps then he have now at least x2 to cath up with the owerpowered dps classes or the hole rework and the new paladin will be a big fail . Cuz if they cant hold the threat both paladin and gf ppl will be really really upset like in early beta.
When the real threat tank was the DC and the CW and GF was a junk .
MY gf hit whit at-will in green junk gear 4-5000 at wills my enforced hit around 5-6000 dmg in green junk with 340 % threat .
= 17000 threat or 20400 this is non crit dmg
MY GWF sentinel hit around 90000-120000 intimidation + bonus 50 % more threat .= 135000 - 180000 threat
Now let see pally if they dont doo anything to her dps he will not lead the threat list cuz her at-wills hit with green junk around 2-300
and her encounters do 70-70 or the biggest is around 400-600 with 500% threat 1500 on at wills 350 - 3000 threat on encounters non crit.
The only time pally will lead threat if he use they hard taunt skills or tab.
You argument have zero logic you come here w/o testing paladin .
Also i try it out whit my friend he have both GF(super weak)&GWF(much stonger then my GWF) i losed on both the agro i even lose the agro on my companion .
Just soo simple pally have zero dmg if you have zero dmg you cannot manage agro in long therm.
The biggest problem on devs side is they dont even understand hou threat work .
(best)CW do 12-14 mill dps (best) GF conq do 4 mill dps but 4 mill /+ 300% can get the agro .
(Best) CW do 12-14 mill dps (best) Prot/tacti do 2 mill dps / + 300% he cant hold the agro in long therm if they dont hit they lose it immediately.
GF need much more dps then he have now at least x2 to cath up with the owerpowered dps classes or the hole rework and the new paladin will be a big fail . Cuz if they cant hold the threat both paladin and gf ppl will be really really upset like in early beta.
When the real threat tank was the DC and the CW and GF was a junk .
http://www.arcgames.com/pt/games/neverwinter/news/detail/6008373-release-notes%253A-08%252F14%252F14 Guardian Fighter
Mark: Mark will now taunt foes briefly as well as place the player at the top of the threat list.
Mark: Now causes you to deal 200% (up from 100%) additional threat on Marked targets and now reduces damage resistance by 20% for the Guardian Fighter and 8% damage resistance for allies.
You can't out agro a GF for long because all a GF has to do is press tab and they are placed "at the top of the threat list."
MY gf hit whit at-will in green junk gear 4-5000 at wills my enforced hit around 5-6000 dmg in green junk with 340 % threat .
= 17000 threat or 20400 this is non crit dmg
MY GWF sentinel hit around 90000-120000 intimidation + bonus 50 % more threat .= 135000 - 180000 threat
Now let see pally if they dont doo anything to her dps he will not lead the threat list cuz her at-wills hit with green junk around 2-300
and her encounters do 70-70 or the biggest is around 400-600 with 500% threat 1500 on at wills 350 - 3000 threat on encounters non crit.
The only time pally will lead threat if he use they hard taunt skills or tab.
You argument have zero logic you come here w/o testing paladin .
Also i try it out whit my friend he have both GF(super weak)&GWF(much stonger then my GWF) i losed on both the agro i even lose the agro on my companion .
Just soo simple pally have zero dmg if you have zero dmg you cannot manage agro in long therm.
The biggest problem on devs side is they dont even understand hou threat work .
(best)CW do 12-14 mill dps (best) GF conq do 4 mill dps but 4 mill /+ 300% can get the agro .
(Best) CW do 12-14 mill dps (best) Prot/tacti do 2 mill dps / + 300% he cant hold the agro in long therm if they dont hit they lose it immediately.
GF need much more dps then he have now at least x2 to cath up with the owerpowered dps classes or the hole rework and the new paladin will be a big fail . Cuz if they cant hold the threat both paladin and gf ppl will be really really upset like in early beta.
When the real threat tank was the DC and the CW and GF was a junk .
Cool story bro. You take a GF using KV, ITF, Mark and then compare his atwill damage to that of like lvl 30 paladin who doesn't even use aura of courage and has no paragon feats? Lol. Then you take some 20k+ (cause for whatever reason you assume your intimidation hits for 90-120k) power gwf and compare his damage with the same lvl 30ish paladin... rofl you're funny.
I have testeed paladin and even at lvl <30 my atwills already do 250+ damage per hit. And that's with bugged ranks. So stop lying, ok?
Get all 3 chars to equal level and gear level and then compare. Also, if you dps with gwf/gf then be so kind and use dps features and encounters with paladin too. Use aura of courage, and bane encounter at the very least.
The new system is has ben put in so that you will never be put into a group with a tank as a Tank OP same goes for if your in heal path and there a cleric in the group
Non-Barracks question: How does this system treat TemptLocks?
Trying to make a new class and cant decide between the two, what would you guys suggest? PVE and PVP.
Since no one else who knows better is answering, I'd say go GF. You want that healadin on your team, right next to you. There are so many of these (OBP) now that there will always be one around. GF is the redheaded stepchild of neverwinter and will never enjoy the popularity of a new shiny class like OBP. Yet it remains extremely viable in pve and pvp. So if you want to be a little different (and much much much much much cheaper gear ) go GF. If you like trending fotms than go paladin.
I'm seeing that GF will have more damage output, more single-target aggro management, and more specified single-target damage reduction. Plus I can't forget control functions with threatening rush, etc. On paper, they seem to be an ideal 'one-mob' or 'boss' tank.
Paladin is actually looking to be a good off-tank/backup healer, in my opinion. Versitile, but lacking real damage output on control capabilities. The kind of guy you want hearding mobs together for a control wizards' AOE while the rogue and scourge warlock work with the OP in order to kill the boss.
Hahahah ... I can see what each of those classes are intending to do in five-man groups.
"Every adventurer has two things in common: they don't like dying, and they love getting paid. The rest is just semantics." Brecken, famed mercenary of Baldur's Gate
I choose to play GF as it is allot of fun to do in a social context. However, people think GF is obsolete compared with OP and dps classes. In my opinion that doesnt have to be the case, people tend to not noticing the debuff/buff ability of GF increasing the damage output to aproximately +60% and damage reduction of atleast +20% for party members. Furthermore, they are very capable of self healing. However, there are a few critical bugs that should be solved to make GF less frustrating to play.
Comments
Yup. /10char
- Forge (GF)
- Apocalypse - (DC)
- Sadus (OP)
- Fireball (GWF)
- Ixian (CW)
Thank you Loadouts for allowing my toons to be all the things... they ever wanted to be....
How would Every other class revolt wisdom already gives them crit and they have to sacrifice 3 points that could have gone into the constitution stat to get at most a few extra crit they already lack Armor pen and Bonus dmg stats let them keep there 2 sources of crit chance.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
If they are Human they can take both.
- Forge (GF)
- Apocalypse - (DC)
- Sadus (OP)
- Fireball (GWF)
- Ixian (CW)
Thank you Loadouts for allowing my toons to be all the things... they ever wanted to be....
Which imo is the real reason something has to change. Atm any race but human is a gimp build.
Nothing has to change. Finally humans are good at something. I'm sick of half or more of the server population being halflings.
NA i still would not go human the way this class triggers the tiefling racial on multiple targets
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Based on the tweaks to the Boss meters in Tiamat and the Tiamat encounter itself being a multi trash mob multi boss situation I believe we can just expect more of that and more tanking needed. Not to brag but watching the cleric health bars if I leave to help another cleric I can readily see the value of the tanking abilities I bring as a GF and only expect that a paladin should be very comparable in such an encounter. I think the people who are going to feel screwed are more run forward and mash the buttons types rather than trying to select appropriate powers for encounters and understand how to manage agro.
You clueless fool. Just log on preview and count how many Paladin's AoE and single target powers have hard taunt effect.
Oh come on Voltomey, Infernal Wrath is totally weak sauce. It's a 10% chance that doesn't even reduce damage by flat 5% just power rating instead. It is quite honestly close to worthless.
The Tiefling Paladin's redeeming features are the ability to go CON and CHA stat spread and Blood Hunt. Even with these into consideration it falls short of it's Human and Dragonborn peers.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
Partly Tiefling is my fav race so its GG for me missing 3 in the con feat is not game breaking since power is getting nerfed any way so that power for HP isent really all that and a bag of chips.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I disagree the main thing I see a lot of are GF's screaming they can't agro. If you regularly use the tab key (hint the mark doesn't last), on the right encounters use enforced threat I wouldn't think you'd have problems. There is room for another tank class and I really don't think in the end it will be better or worse just different as opposed to say EQ where paladins weren't tanks weren't healers and just had problems the entire time I played.
Riiight. Good luck pulling aggro on anything if you happen to get in a team with a paladin. GF will be no more if Paladin pulls trough with all his hard taunts. Mark my words.
The new system is has ben put in so that you will never be put into a group with a tank as a Tank OP same goes for if your in heal path and there a cleric in the group
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
^This. People just don't get it (or pay attention to Devnotes.)
In PUG: If you get a Protector OP - you will NOT get a GF. If you get a Devotion OP you will NOT get a Cleric. And vice-versa. The only way to get both simultaneously of a class type (Healer/Tank) is to create a pre-made or in HEs, etc. Tiamat instance notwithstanding.
Doesn't apply in skirmishes. Neither does the system count Sentinel GWF as tank. And since Paladin has aoe hard taunts that can permamently lock targets in combat, GWF loses his secondary tank role and is left with nothing but glass cannon build.
Moreover, the fact remains, Paladin can tank more reliably than a GF and GWF combined ever could. He's got a crapton of hard taunts that are enough to perma tank a group of mobs/boss, along with 500% threat generation. Last time I checked GF can get a max of 340%. That's with mark, enhanced mark feature and a heroic feat granting threat. GWF can get even less. 200% threat with mark, intimidation buff and weapon master feature. Both classes need to slot powers for all this threat generation and refresh them all the time. Whereas Paladin gets his free 500% slotting and doing exactly nothing. Thus, he can slot buffs or heals disguised as shields/temp hp instead.
And btw, people still use random queue for dungeons?.. Last time I tried I waited an hour but nothing popped up. It's not relevant to talk about queue system when no-one uses it anymore.
I think more to the point who would take a GF if a Paladin is available? Outside of the matchmaking system....
They system only apply to OP and only when the OP is pit against a GF cause GWF regardless of what three Trees it takes is still DPS this system Looks at the Paragon path of a OP as a whole not any of the single feat trees.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
MY gf hit whit at-will in green junk gear 4-5000 at wills my enforced hit around 5-6000 dmg in green junk with 340 % threat .
= 17000 threat or 20400 this is non crit dmg
MY GWF sentinel hit around 90000-120000 intimidation + bonus 50 % more threat .= 135000 - 180000 threat
Now let see pally if they dont doo anything to her dps he will not lead the threat list cuz her at-wills hit with green junk around 2-300
and her encounters do 70-70 or the biggest is around 400-600 with 500% threat 1500 on at wills 350 - 3000 threat on encounters non crit.
The only time pally will lead threat if he use they hard taunt skills or tab.
You argument have zero logic you come here w/o testing paladin .
Also i try it out whit my friend he have both GF(super weak)&GWF(much stonger then my GWF) i losed on both the agro i even lose the agro on my companion .
Just soo simple pally have zero dmg if you have zero dmg you cannot manage agro in long therm.
The biggest problem on devs side is they dont even understand hou threat work .
(best)CW do 12-14 mill dps (best) GF conq do 4 mill dps but 4 mill /+ 300% can get the agro .
(Best) CW do 12-14 mill dps (best) Prot/tacti do 2 mill dps / + 300% he cant hold the agro in long therm if they dont hit they lose it immediately.
GF need much more dps then he have now at least x2 to cath up with the owerpowered dps classes or the hole rework and the new paladin will be a big fail . Cuz if they cant hold the threat both paladin and gf ppl will be really really upset like in early beta.
When the real threat tank was the DC and the CW and GF was a junk .
http://www.arcgames.com/pt/games/neverwinter/news/detail/6008373-release-notes%253A-08%252F14%252F14
Guardian Fighter
Mark: Mark will now taunt foes briefly as well as place the player at the top of the threat list.
Mark: Now causes you to deal 200% (up from 100%) additional threat on Marked targets and now reduces damage resistance by 20% for the Guardian Fighter and 8% damage resistance for allies.
You can't out agro a GF for long because all a GF has to do is press tab and they are placed "at the top of the threat list."
Cool story bro. You take a GF using KV, ITF, Mark and then compare his atwill damage to that of like lvl 30 paladin who doesn't even use aura of courage and has no paragon feats? Lol. Then you take some 20k+ (cause for whatever reason you assume your intimidation hits for 90-120k) power gwf and compare his damage with the same lvl 30ish paladin... rofl you're funny.
I have testeed paladin and even at lvl <30 my atwills already do 250+ damage per hit. And that's with bugged ranks. So stop lying, ok?
Get all 3 chars to equal level and gear level and then compare. Also, if you dps with gwf/gf then be so kind and use dps features and encounters with paladin too. Use aura of courage, and bane encounter at the very least.
Non-Barracks question: How does this system treat TemptLocks?
Since no one else who knows better is answering, I'd say go GF. You want that healadin on your team, right next to you. There are so many of these (OBP) now that there will always be one around. GF is the redheaded stepchild of neverwinter and will never enjoy the popularity of a new shiny class like OBP. Yet it remains extremely viable in pve and pvp. So if you want to be a little different (and much much much much much cheaper gear
Paladin is actually looking to be a good off-tank/backup healer, in my opinion. Versitile, but lacking real damage output on control capabilities. The kind of guy you want hearding mobs together for a control wizards' AOE while the rogue and scourge warlock work with the OP in order to kill the boss.
Hahahah ... I can see what each of those classes are intending to do in five-man groups.
"D*mn wizards," said Morik the Rogue.
Learn what a GWF and GF really are: The History of Fighters