then they should get "Control Bonus" on their gear. not just ignore a game mechanic.
Well given the diminishing returns curve for stacking control bonus off of gear, it's pointless. This should be changed to allow a meaningful control bonus from gear.
Well given the diminishing returns curve for stacking control bonus off of gear, it's pointless. This should be changed to allow a meaningful control bonus from gear.
exactly, instead of making them ignore a stat that everyone else has to obey. just increase the scaling of control bonus , Or give them a feat that increases it, if the scaling of everything else can be changed it can also. instead of inherently being able to ignore something so important to PvP. it should at least need points spent to do so. Or like you said. if they are a Control Wizard, then they dont need as high dps as they have.
exactly, instead of making them ignore a stat that everyone else has to obey. just increase the scaling of control bonus , Or give them a feat that increases it, if the scaling of everything else can be changed it can also. instead of inherently being able to ignore something so important to PvP. it should at least need points spent to do so. Or like you said. if they are a Control Wizard, then they dont need as high dps as they have.
They only have the opportunity to go full control as Oppressor, as GWF has the opportunity to go full offtank as Sentinel.
So in my earlier post I mentionned HP gained from constitution is very underwhelming right now, I went on preview to show you guys how much of underwhelming I meant. The problem is the constitution gives HP from your characters base HP and has no effect on gear HP, whilst more than half of my current HP comes from gear it means my constitution isn't contributing to half of my HP, literally
The First two pictures are lv 70 mod 6 and two pieces of elemental fire (so there's another 20k missing from gear + enchants I don't have yet.)
These two are mod 5 (Live) wizard at level 60 at 17.5k GS
67k vs 64k and 30.5k vs 33k
In the first case I was missing 2 pieces of gear from elemental fire gear, which is roughly 20k more HP, so for testing's sake let's make it 87k and 84k because that's what it'll be when you gear up at 70. So that means 8 point of con contribute to about 3% of my total HP. For 8 points of Con the stat shows +16% because it's 2% per Con points, we're actually getting 3% of our HP from these 8 points of Con.
In the second scenario we're talking more of 8-10% for 6 points of Con, which is two less than the first example. The game stats simply note +12% HP, this is vaguely more true here than it is for the second one right?
This is what I mean by underwhelming, constitution on preview feels useless, and I dont think it should be this way.
I am the monk, martial skill transcends the battlefield
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
They only have the opportunity to go full control as Oppressor, as GWF has the opportunity to go full offtank as Sentinel.
Cool, so add the control bonus feat in the oppressor tree and stop this stupid ignoring tenacity thing, also funnily enough Sentinel GWF does more damage on live than Destro GWF. And on preview Destro is too squishy to deal with most content. also this is from live, but its still valid information. I did a Combat log check over 1 minute on a 14.6k rogue, and a 20.2k GWF (both pve gear and p vorpal)
the result was stupid
663k damage over 1 minute on 14.6k rogue (executioner, battlefield skulker and P vorp) (~11k dps)
413k damage over 1 min on 20.2k gwf (Destroyer, avatar of war and p vorp) (~7k dps)
On both characters I used tab when available, used dailies once (execution on rogue, indom strength on gwf), targetted one dummy only, and used normal encounters for combat (smoke/Lb/impact on rogue, IBS FLS TD on gwf)
GWF might have the biggest weapon dmg, but the scaling on our skills , (THE FACT THAT WE ARE THE ONLY DPS CLASS THAT HAS TO AIM EVERYTHING) and the speed we attack is shocking. I'd totally understand all our stuff needing to be aimed if we potentially did the highest DPS out of all classes with equal gear. but as it is. theres no benefit for being GWF and having to manually plan out and aim our short range low/none aoe skills.
Yet again. Movement is STILL nerfed. I have rank 9 darks in my utility slots and I feel like I'm crawling compared to live. So maddening in fact, testing was making me angry. PLEASE fix movement.
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited March 2015
Or like you said. if they are a Control Wizard, then they dont need as high dps as they have.
I haven't PvPed in a couple modules, but when did CWs get high PvP damage? When I played, we only had half second controls and tabbed Icy Rays. Don't CWS have to tab Shield now? Which singe target powers did they buff in PvP?
I haven't PvPed in a couple modules, but when did CWs get high PvP damage? When I played, we only had half second controls and tabbed Icy Rays. Don't CWS have to tab Shield now? Which singe target powers did they buff in PvP?
storm spell with chilling presence, cw now uses more or less control utility encounters like repel
So in my earlier post I mentionned HP gained from constitution is very underwhelming right now, I went on preview to show you guys how much of underwhelming I meant. The problem is the constitution gives HP from your characters base HP and has no effect on gear HP, whilst more than half of my current HP comes from gear it means my constitution isn't contributing to half of my HP, literally
The First two pictures are lv 70 mod 6 and two pieces of elemental fire (so there's another 20k missing from gear + enchants I don't have yet.)
These two are mod 5 (Live) wizard at level 60 at 17.5k GS
67k vs 64k and 30.5k vs 33k
In the first case I was missing 2 pieces of gear from elemental fire gear, which is roughly 20k more HP, so for testing's sake let's make it 87k and 84k because that's what it'll be when you gear up at 70. So that means 8 point of con contribute to about 3% of my total HP. For 8 points of Con the stat shows +16% because it's 2% per Con points, we're actually getting 3% of our HP from these 8 points of Con.
In the second scenario we're talking more of 8-10% for 6 points of Con, which is two less than the first example. The game stats simply note +12% HP, this is vaguely more true here than it is for the second one right?
This is what I mean by underwhelming, constitution on preview feels useless, and I dont think it should be this way.
ac is big problem as well gf.gwf should get it 2x more from gear and gf shield needs to give 3x times more ac and then we might have use of them in game if this changes to max hp goes live gf and gwf will be worthles
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aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited March 2015
I always laughed at CWs who used repel, especially against another CW. So the damage is all from SS and Ice Knife now?
it totally lost a meaning of life in combat.
and its redundant with incoming healing bonus
yeah I know haha, I didnt know why you said we can still save it :P
the dev's minds seem made up that they want to phase out/reduce the use of lifesteal and regen.
yeah I know haha, I didnt know why you said we can still save it :P
the dev's minds seem made up that they want to phase out/reduce the use of lifesteal and regen.
i was ok with lifesteal but looking at the damage output of the encounters i had with l 73 monsters... well i m not sure anymore
why si it that the "stat curves" are completely different for each level?
and why specifically do the stat curves TANK SO HARD after 60?
do you guys notice that if you are lvl 70 and fighting in an area that scales you Lower in level, that you Crit rate raises by like 5% lol... just for going to a lower lvl area??
I'm done testing, for the most part, and I feel that Lifesteal is very underwhelming. Even more so than it was earlier in testing. If the proc chance isn't adjusted in some way, I view that stat as undesirable. It may hold some value in group content but, solo, it is just too unreliable. It may be a situation where you should either stack a ton of it or none of it.
right now life steal is not going to work on soft classes ie cw we usealy dont have much defence or hit points so life steal was our only real defencive stat that kept us alive now with the new life steal proc and lowered defence curve we are never going to be able to stay alive
right now life steal is not going to work on soft classes ie cw we usealy dont have much defence or hit points so life steal was our only real defencive stat that kept us alive now with the new life steal proc and lowered defence curve we are never going to be able to stay alive
Tip of the day to you then..
Get 2-3 artifact with life steal (1000 each) feat dark in defence rank 9 alone will give you 7x320 = 2240 add boon 400 + if you want 800 from armor kits and with some items you reach 7k + without much effort then add at least 3% from boon and why not through in a life drinker with 5% + 20%!!!! extra on incomming heals and you are already over 20% with 20% extra on incomming heal ( easy 10% extra from second boon from last module)+ whatever reg gives you.
Now feat alot of aoe and dott damage and you are a walking lifedrinking killing machine in no need of any healing what so ever unless cced.
My guess is that they will put an idc on lifesteal because frankly its going to be to powerful, but thats just my guess feel free to test it yourself.......
Oh and btw you will have a ****load of hp easy 110k+ as cw and with shield in slott + dodges you will have more defence then most tanks......
Get 2-3 artifact with life steal (1000 each) feat dark in defence rank 9 alone will give you 7x320 = 2240 add boon 400 + if you want 800 from armor kits and with some items you reach 7k + without much effort then add at least 3% from boon and why not through in a life drinker with 5% + 20%!!!! extra on incomming heals and you are already over 20% with 20% extra on incomming heal ( easy 10% extra from second boon from last module)+ whatever reg gives you.
Now feat alot of aoe and dott damage and you are a walking lifedrinking killing machine in no need of any healing what so ever unless cced.
My guess is that they will put an idc on lifesteal because frankly its going to be to powerful, but thats just my guess feel free to test it yourself.......
Oh and btw you will have a ****load of hp easy 11ok+ as cw and with shield in slott + dodges you will have more defence then most tanks......
Cool so basically just farm up MYTHIC rank artifacts and get some near top tier (3 off the best) enchantments and you're totally fine. I'm sure anyone can do this with no problem at all.
Get 2-3 artifact with life steal (1000 each) feat dark in defence rank 9 alone will give you 7x320 = 2240 add boon 400 + if you want 800 from armor kits and with some items you reach 7k + without much effort then add at least 3% from boon and why not through in a life drinker with 5% + 20%!!!! extra on incomming heals and you are already over 20% with 20% extra on incomming heal ( easy 10% extra from second boon from last module)+ whatever reg gives you.
Now feat alot of aoe and dott damage and you are a walking lifedrinking killing machine in no need of any healing what so ever unless cced.
My guess is that they will put an idc on lifesteal because frankly its going to be to powerful, but thats just my guess feel free to test it yourself.......
Oh and btw you will have a ****load of hp easy 110k+ as cw and with shield in slott + dodges you will have more defence then most tanks......
Hate to differ but the average player does not even have a lesser lifedrinker nor orange artifacts NOR the last boons from ToD. Not to mention, afford the cost of 4 new armor fortification kits.
You have to consider that others aren't as decked out and rich. The majority of players aren't in fact.
Cool so basically just farm up MYTHIC rank artifacts and get some near top tier (3 off the best) enchantments and you're totally fine. I'm sure anyone can do this with no problem at all.
Given that it will drop lvl 5 enchants instead of 4 and it will be a field day for boots to gather them at least at start lvling artifacts shouldent be a huge problem at leat to get 7-800 instead of 1000 and I cant imagen getting gear from dungeons will be very hard same with boons.
All in all say you get 17-20 life steal instead of 20-25 its going to be more then enough for aoe/dott builds imho, but as I said try it out yourselfs best way of finding out....
crtic needs nerf or power buff in new stats curves crtic is a lot better to stack then power or any other stats
Nah, it has always been better to stack crit than power. Unless you're playing one of the classes that can achieve tons of crit just from feats.
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As was mentioned to you already, THINK about all classes and not just about your own. My GF needs to stack boatloads of crit already. Power stacking is still an option, since GWF etc. get massive power just from their items... while having feats that automatically increase their crit rate.
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Bad idea and also, nerf requests without a constructive explanation (feedback) are against the forum policy.
Nah, it has always been better to stack crit than power. Unless you're playing one of the classes that can achieve tons of crit just from feats.
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As was mentioned to you already, THINK about all classes and not just about your own. My GF needs to stack boatloads of crit already. Power stacking is still an option, since GWF etc. get massive power just from their items... while having feats that automatically increase their crit rate.
---
Bad idea and also, nerf requests without a constructive explanation (feedback) are against the forum policy.
crit needs a nerf of the simple reason that is not worth stacking another stack until you reach 100% crit which means 400k being all curves linear wih the same slope.
you may not want to accept but math is not an opinion.
crit needs a nerf of the simple reason that is not worth stacking another stack until you reach 100% crit which means 400k being all curves linear wih the same slope.
you may not want to accept but math is not an opinion.
Not necessarily.
First, ARP is much better to stack in PVE than anything else given the ARP levels of mobs.
+400 ARP = 4% ARP. that 4% arp (due to the way ARP works) is actually more like 5.5% damage boost.
+400 Crit, most classes have 75%-90% Severity which means 1% crit is only a DPS boost of .75-.9% damage where as 400 power = 1% damage.
Only if you achieve severity over 100% does Critical outpace Power and even then, if you can already achieve 100% crit - like TRs or CWs with stealth/EOTS then it starts becoming much more of a tradeoff.
I think its all fairly balanced IMO. PVE players will be stacking massive ARP, PVPers probably will not because of ARP resistance. PVP players MAY stack more critical strike just due to burst being king in PVP however I can see a solid case for Power Stacking in PVP as well.
The REAL stats that need addressing are the defensive ones.
Its already been discussed in this thread that HP stacking FAR outweighs Defense or Deflect Stacking. If there really needs to be a stat that should be fixed, it should be defense providing a 300:1% and Deflect should be about 200:1%.
This would put all defensive stats on ROUGHLY the same value (deflect should be 200:1% just like Recovery is 200:1%)
crit needs a nerf of the simple reason that is not worth stacking another stack until you reach 100% crit which means 400k being all curves linear wih the same slope.
you may not want to accept but math is not an opinion.
You are playing TR/HR, which both happen to be two of the higher crit rate classes in the game... Go play as GF then come back and claim this again. GF has to stack crit and a lot of it. I don't care if your fotm classes can easily get crit from feats. etc.
Comments
Because, as everyone likes to say when calling for CW damage nerfs, "they're control wizards".
then they should get "Control Bonus" on their gear. not just ignore a game mechanic.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
Well given the diminishing returns curve for stacking control bonus off of gear, it's pointless. This should be changed to allow a meaningful control bonus from gear.
exactly, instead of making them ignore a stat that everyone else has to obey. just increase the scaling of control bonus , Or give them a feat that increases it, if the scaling of everything else can be changed it can also. instead of inherently being able to ignore something so important to PvP. it should at least need points spent to do so. Or like you said. if they are a Control Wizard, then they dont need as high dps as they have.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
So in my earlier post I mentionned HP gained from constitution is very underwhelming right now, I went on preview to show you guys how much of underwhelming I meant. The problem is the constitution gives HP from your characters base HP and has no effect on gear HP, whilst more than half of my current HP comes from gear it means my constitution isn't contributing to half of my HP, literally
The First two pictures are lv 70 mod 6 and two pieces of elemental fire (so there's another 20k missing from gear + enchants I don't have yet.)
These two are mod 5 (Live) wizard at level 60 at 17.5k GS
67k vs 64k and 30.5k vs 33k
In the first case I was missing 2 pieces of gear from elemental fire gear, which is roughly 20k more HP, so for testing's sake let's make it 87k and 84k because that's what it'll be when you gear up at 70. So that means 8 point of con contribute to about 3% of my total HP. For 8 points of Con the stat shows +16% because it's 2% per Con points, we're actually getting 3% of our HP from these 8 points of Con.
In the second scenario we're talking more of 8-10% for 6 points of Con, which is two less than the first example. The game stats simply note +12% HP, this is vaguely more true here than it is for the second one right?
This is what I mean by underwhelming, constitution on preview feels useless, and I dont think it should be this way.
It is my my life style, my doctrine and my state of mind,
You fight well, but without focus and discipline, you will fall.
More threads by me / Click on it
My Support Warlock/Temptation Thread
Cool, so add the control bonus feat in the oppressor tree and stop this stupid ignoring tenacity thing, also funnily enough Sentinel GWF does more damage on live than Destro GWF. And on preview Destro is too squishy to deal with most content. also this is from live, but its still valid information. I did a Combat log check over 1 minute on a 14.6k rogue, and a 20.2k GWF (both pve gear and p vorpal)
the result was stupid
663k damage over 1 minute on 14.6k rogue (executioner, battlefield skulker and P vorp) (~11k dps)
413k damage over 1 min on 20.2k gwf (Destroyer, avatar of war and p vorp) (~7k dps)
On both characters I used tab when available, used dailies once (execution on rogue, indom strength on gwf), targetted one dummy only, and used normal encounters for combat (smoke/Lb/impact on rogue, IBS FLS TD on gwf)
GWF might have the biggest weapon dmg, but the scaling on our skills , (THE FACT THAT WE ARE THE ONLY DPS CLASS THAT HAS TO AIM EVERYTHING) and the speed we attack is shocking. I'd totally understand all our stuff needing to be aimed if we potentially did the highest DPS out of all classes with equal gear. but as it is. theres no benefit for being GWF and having to manually plan out and aim our short range low/none aoe skills.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
I haven't PvPed in a couple modules, but when did CWs get high PvP damage? When I played, we only had half second controls and tabbed Icy Rays. Don't CWS have to tab Shield now? Which singe target powers did they buff in PvP?
storm spell with chilling presence, cw now uses more or less control utility encounters like repel
ac is big problem as well gf.gwf should get it 2x more from gear and gf shield needs to give 3x times more ac and then we might have use of them in game if this changes to max hp goes live gf and gwf will be worthles
?? huh? what do you mean.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
it totally lost a meaning of life in combat.
and its redundant with incoming healing bonus
yeah I know haha, I didnt know why you said we can still save it :P
the dev's minds seem made up that they want to phase out/reduce the use of lifesteal and regen.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
i was ok with lifesteal but looking at the damage output of the encounters i had with l 73 monsters... well i m not sure anymore
and why specifically do the stat curves TANK SO HARD after 60?
do you guys notice that if you are lvl 70 and fighting in an area that scales you Lower in level, that you Crit rate raises by like 5% lol... just for going to a lower lvl area??
right now life steal is not going to work on soft classes ie cw we usealy dont have much defence or hit points so life steal was our only real defencive stat that kept us alive now with the new life steal proc and lowered defence curve we are never going to be able to stay alive
Tip of the day to you then..
Get 2-3 artifact with life steal (1000 each) feat dark in defence rank 9 alone will give you 7x320 = 2240 add boon 400 + if you want 800 from armor kits and with some items you reach 7k + without much effort then add at least 3% from boon and why not through in a life drinker with 5% + 20%!!!! extra on incomming heals and you are already over 20% with 20% extra on incomming heal ( easy 10% extra from second boon from last module)+ whatever reg gives you.
Now feat alot of aoe and dott damage and you are a walking lifedrinking killing machine in no need of any healing what so ever unless cced.
My guess is that they will put an idc on lifesteal because frankly its going to be to powerful, but thats just my guess feel free to test it yourself.......
Oh and btw you will have a ****load of hp easy 110k+ as cw and with shield in slott + dodges you will have more defence then most tanks......
Cool so basically just farm up MYTHIC rank artifacts and get some near top tier (3 off the best) enchantments and you're totally fine. I'm sure anyone can do this with no problem at all.
Drunken Goose of MidNight Express. - 3.3k Paladin , 3.6k GWF , 3.1k GF,
Hate to differ but the average player does not even have a lesser lifedrinker nor orange artifacts NOR the last boons from ToD. Not to mention, afford the cost of 4 new armor fortification kits.
You have to consider that others aren't as decked out and rich. The majority of players aren't in fact.
Given that it will drop lvl 5 enchants instead of 4 and it will be a field day for boots to gather them at least at start lvling artifacts shouldent be a huge problem at leat to get 7-800 instead of 1000 and I cant imagen getting gear from dungeons will be very hard same with boons.
All in all say you get 17-20 life steal instead of 20-25 its going to be more then enough for aoe/dott builds imho, but as I said try it out yourselfs best way of finding out....
Best
Nah, it has always been better to stack crit than power. Unless you're playing one of the classes that can achieve tons of crit just from feats.
---
As was mentioned to you already, THINK about all classes and not just about your own. My GF needs to stack boatloads of crit already. Power stacking is still an option, since GWF etc. get massive power just from their items... while having feats that automatically increase their crit rate.
---
Bad idea and also, nerf requests without a constructive explanation (feedback) are against the forum policy.
crit needs a nerf of the simple reason that is not worth stacking another stack until you reach 100% crit which means 400k being all curves linear wih the same slope.
you may not want to accept but math is not an opinion.
Not necessarily.
First, ARP is much better to stack in PVE than anything else given the ARP levels of mobs.
+400 ARP = 4% ARP. that 4% arp (due to the way ARP works) is actually more like 5.5% damage boost.
+400 Crit, most classes have 75%-90% Severity which means 1% crit is only a DPS boost of .75-.9% damage where as 400 power = 1% damage.
Only if you achieve severity over 100% does Critical outpace Power and even then, if you can already achieve 100% crit - like TRs or CWs with stealth/EOTS then it starts becoming much more of a tradeoff.
I think its all fairly balanced IMO. PVE players will be stacking massive ARP, PVPers probably will not because of ARP resistance. PVP players MAY stack more critical strike just due to burst being king in PVP however I can see a solid case for Power Stacking in PVP as well.
The REAL stats that need addressing are the defensive ones.
Its already been discussed in this thread that HP stacking FAR outweighs Defense or Deflect Stacking. If there really needs to be a stat that should be fixed, it should be defense providing a 300:1% and Deflect should be about 200:1%.
This would put all defensive stats on ROUGHLY the same value (deflect should be 200:1% just like Recovery is 200:1%)
You are playing TR/HR, which both happen to be two of the higher crit rate classes in the game... Go play as GF then come back and claim this again. GF has to stack crit and a lot of it. I don't care if your fotm classes can easily get crit from feats. etc.
- And this is how the fairytale, ends.