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GWF, to gear or not to gear? Or just go with GF.
chewmagna
Member Posts: 16 Arc User
Sup everyone. I'm a semi casual player (pve only) and earlier today hit 60 with my GWF (SM/Destro). I like the class, I think it's a lot of fun, but all I hear and read about is how "bad" the class is. Part of me says just gear her and the other part says work on something else because nobody will want me in their group with this class. I don't really get where a lot of this comes from, I don't have any end game experience but all the content I've done leveling I've always doubled to quadrupled everyone else's damage, usually ended up tanking, and more than once saved the dungeon from wipes. I'm not exactly swimming in AD (semi casual I said), I have maybe 250k between my characters. Probably doesn't help that I just spent that much on a couple more slots.
The other option is to pick up and finish leveling my GF, she's 54 right now. Problem is I don't like the idea of being sucked into playing tank or buff bot. I like tanking the "traditional" way, but not in NW. She's been leveled as dps (SM/Conq, again, usually doubling or more every one else's damage while inadvertently tanking) and I'd like to continue playing her that way, but again, I don't think that's exactly welcome in team play for epic content.
I like both classes, I just don't want to waste the AD gearing one and end up not being able to actually play that character how I like.
The other option is to pick up and finish leveling my GF, she's 54 right now. Problem is I don't like the idea of being sucked into playing tank or buff bot. I like tanking the "traditional" way, but not in NW. She's been leveled as dps (SM/Conq, again, usually doubling or more every one else's damage while inadvertently tanking) and I'd like to continue playing her that way, but again, I don't think that's exactly welcome in team play for epic content.
I like both classes, I just don't want to waste the AD gearing one and end up not being able to actually play that character how I like.
Post edited by chewmagna on
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When I do play my GFs though (PvE also) and my hands aren't bothering me that bad, I do have a good time also.
What I'd suggest is to roll up a GF and play them to 60 then decide for yourself which you like more. As for the negative comments towards GWFs, these are almost always geared towards PvP content and many times it has to do with them either being OP or broken in some way and is usually argued against.
I don't PvP on my GWFs, so I don't know how they are in PvP personally. GWFs in PvE can be deadly however. While I die on occasion on any class I play, the one that I can count on to rarely ever die in PvE content, is one of my GWFs or my main DC (she's a regen-beast).
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GWF is not bad, on the contrary, its very close to what it is supposed to be. Where did u see or hear this nonsense? If by chance you caught some discussion for PVP you can totally ignore it. PVP is an entire different story where dominant classes are always changing. Enjoy your PVE GWF, and dont listen to what the majority says cause they are new to this game.
No with the nerf to unstoppable that happened mod 4 GWF's just suck to play. Subpar damage unless you are 20kgs+, squishier than any other class, worst tab mechanic in the game now that it's been nerfed to the ground. There is nothing fun about GWF anymore.
GF's have a lot going in the buff department, but if you don't want to be a buffbot, I wouldn't recommend them either to be honest. GWF used to be my favorite premod 4, but now these are probably the two worst classes imo.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
My other GWF (my favorite of the two) a Sun Elf Iron Vanguard and also a Destroyer with 10 points in Sentinel. Her at wills are Sure Strike and Wicked Strike. Her encounters are Restoring Strike, Indomitable Battle Strike, and Frontline Surge (which I often swap out for Takedown). Her dailies are Indomitable Strength and Slam. Her features are Steadfast Determination and Enduring Warrior. Another correction, she's in a T1 set of armor: Bladestorm's while I'm building up her T2 set. Her weapon and off hand are mulhorand but she's wearing a full set of Shore rings and cloak. Her belt is a green Belt of Strength. 13,370 GS.
Despite both of them being undergeared, the first more than the 2nd, they both are extremely fun to play and I rarely ever die unless most of the party dies first, or when soloing if I am not paying attention and draw in too many mobs or forget to go unstoppable in time. Otherwise, they're practically immortal. I'm sure they'd both die a lot in Tiamat though, with their current gear. As their current gear is really only good for the pre-ToD delves.
If there's any other specific things you'd like to know about my GWFs, just ask.
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That's actually pretty close to what I'm running. Destroyer/Steel Blitz. Destroyer with 10 points in Sentinel. WMS and SS for my at wills. My encounters are a little different, I like Daring Shout, IBS, and the last changes depending on what I'm doing. Restoring Strike, Flourish and Battle Fury are what I swap out. I frickin love WMS, but I hate how it just stops attacking sometimes and I have to click again. Normally it isn't too much of an issue, but when there's a ton going on and I can't even see my character it's hard to tell if she's still attacking. Seems to happen a lot when I go Unstoppable. Sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it does. Sometimes she just stops attacking for no apparent reason (standing still holding the button and just stops). My dailies of choice are Crescendo and Spinning Strike/Slam.
Ok so go ahead and gear her up. Now the question is, which set? I've glanced at them and the bonuses on all seem... meh, at best. Avatar of War looks good but that might clean me out in the AD department.
If you cannot afford a full T2 set, mayhaps do what I do for most of my characters and start them out on a cheap T1 set then slowly through Delves and AD, gain the T2 pieces you want to upgrade to. You should be able to do any PvE content quite well in a T1 set, as long as it compliments your build. Tiamat however, might prove tough without a T2 set, but should be feasible in T1.
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I have the exact same issue with it, was worried it was my mouse.
I run the same set-up as zebular, though I sometimes take Daring Shout or Mighty Leap over Not So Fast.
As far as your gear, depends on what you're going for. If you want crit. (which seems to be pretty standard these days) then ya AoW obviously makes the most sense. Sure, it's expensive to buy in the AH, but what happened to grinding for gear the ol' fashioned way? It's way more rewarding, on top of being cheaper
I can flat out buy the set, I'm just kinda on the fence about spending that much AD in one go lol. By the set I'm talking 4/4 plus main hand and off hand.
Now on the other hand (off hand? lol) the Vigilant set is vastly cheaper, doesn't have a horrible bonus, and I can get the whole shebang for 25% the cost of the Avatar set. It seems a bit weird though, the set has a crit based bonus, but no crit on the gear itself. I can solve that a little by getting the Avatar MH/OH, unless there's something out there better for it. I also have a couple R5 Azure's floating around.
That 2/2 bonus sounds nice on that ACC Greatsword though.
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Before arti weapons, imo malabogs(crafted)(I forget the name of the crafted weapons compared to the dropped weapons) was best. However imo (and this goes for any class) just get any epic weapon (for weapon enchant slot) then switch to an arti weapon. Even just at blue they are better than the other CN/MC/VT weapons.
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Both classes need way more in terms of gear than any other class and for both gf/gwf pve builds wont be playable in pvp.
Get lifesteal, do campaigns and go for Tiamat.
Not entirely true. A GF can transition well between both PVE and PVP, more readily than any other class.
What is god in PVP? Survivability. GFs stack HP, defence and regen easier than any other class.
What do you generally need from a GF in eLoL/eSoT/CN? A buffbot. What do buffbots generally do? Stack HP, defence and regen.
A single GF can quite easily swap gear and be competent in both areas of the game. Conquerors can even tank eLoL and eSoT. That is what I do. I have 3 full sets of gear, all readily accessible (discounting the BI arms drop) and switch between them depending on what content I am doing.
I agree with GWFs though. You have to be a Sentinel to stand a chance in PVP, but they only become truly viable at 19/20k+ GS when they have at least 8k power. But, in PVE, Sentinels don't offer much. Destroyers are cannon fodder in PVP unless they are outrageously geared, but they offer more than a Sentinel in PVE.
As far as the BI drops for the arms go, I think something has changed in their drop rates lately. In the past 2 days I've gotten 3 BI arms drops on my SW while doing some HE's and mining BI. Either that or the RNG gods are smiling on me.
I think RNGesus has smiled upon you. My bro has ran about 100 HEs in IWD the past two weeks and his HR still hasn't gotten its arms. 20ish epic HEs alone this weekend and nothing, even though the zones are a lot quieter with most folks chasing dragons, so less competition.
In the old days thats not the case, a typical average gear score was ok to have.
I disagree with you Zeb, if you go to Tiamat (the current content) and try to tank in front of the clerics with a 13k destroyer gwf, you will be destroyed.
Same goes with elol and esot.
Sure a 13-14k can do all the rest of the content fine, but none of that is current content and even then in IWD this current GWF under destroyer just isnt the same anymore.
I actually just switched to sent and am 18.5k in AoW Armour (so no gear inflation on draconic stats), Im like 8.5 power but with AoW effect and the IWD boon (clear your stamina up to dragon head each time) I will be around 11-12 k power during the phase fights on the zerg. So my Come and Daring Shout will hit when buffed on heads 50-100k each.
Im probably not as functional as a destroyer, but I can also take on a cleric mob phase now without dying in 3 seconds.
But compared to my CW (17k) and DC (18.5k ) Im clearly doing less damage and less utility. My CW can lock down a point mob almost by herself and my DC buffs/debuffs increasing DPS by 100% on each head.
The fiction that a typically geared GWF is ok, is really off putting, its not. Sure you will see some GREAT gwfs, but look at their gear, your going to see golds flying left and right on them.
There IS NO other class that is so heavily gear dependent to run current content.
Dont get me started on pvp, I will not play this class in it anymore, its so hard to pvp now anyways, as there is almost no one in the middle class range playing it (its like you see 10k poeple and 22k people, where are the 15-18k people!)
I will bring my DC into pvp , as you can drop a shield (empowered) and use Break the Spirit and SB as a functional rotation, so you only die all the time to TRs and Trapper HRs and CWs that lock you down (so its up to divine BtS and who hits who first ect sometimes (except trs, who can go through my 4k defense, 2k deflect, 36 AC and 20% tenacity build)
In a team environment being a buff/defender works wonders, but when you are solo and you want to do a minor quest you;ll have the worst experience, classes with 5k less gs will clear stuff faster than you , plus is the worst class at dealing with multiple adds (now with the shield bug even more so).
This! /10char
Neither class is satisfactory, but NWO's GF is closer (not close, but closer) from GF than NWO's gwf is from GWF. You're 60 now and the game changes at this point. You won't be discovering new landscapes/stories/people, instead you will be completing the same quests again and again, with the general idea of improving your char's Gear Score, as this is all there is to do. And in this respect, while performing better, the GF is a bit more boring to play. Gwf is irritating to play because you're squishy and have no DPS and no CC, and all kinds of caps and delays and stacks everywhere, but the fights are more lively, you lose HP, you get cc-ed, you drink HP potions, your HP bar keeps going back and fro.
They won't notice you. You'll die, but it will be a side effect of a breath, debuff, AOE in an area where you just happen to be.
Conquerors can load defensive stats just as easily and can then tank and buff in places like eSoT and eLoL just as well as a Protector. Conquerors can easily achieve 50% DR + with a cloak or feat.
In this game, being a tank and a healer means very little.
The game was set up for not needed any class, and its still that way. You can clear content with any set up, as long as people know their class and are geared well enough.