I am trying to decide if i move from owlbear to the blackice or the charisma belt. How much difference is there between the blackice and the charisma belt in crit chance...2% ?
it depends on your current crit rating since the black ice belt gives crit rating that the charisma belt is lacking.
yes, there would be a 2% crit chance difference from charisma alone, plus a difference of whatever 298 rating gives you based on your current crit rating, so the difference is actually quite minimal unless you're already far over the point where DR kicks in on crit rating
i personally get 3.1% crit chance from black ice belt, whereas i would get 4% from sash of charisma
with the charisma belt, you are going to end up with what i'd consider a wasted stat (deflect), so in my opinion, the black ice belt is superior in that it has armor pen and crit rating, rather than deflect and lifesteal, since for anyone wearing HV, armor pen becomes a premium stat later on unless you're planning to enchant for it, which in turn lowers your top end power since you can't slot a radiant instead
Ok, so I opened a parse that include multiple days of parsing over the last 2 weeks and every hits of storm spell I have are dealing damage with the exception of 4 which are against blue dragonwing (they were surely using their shield effect that prevent them from taking damage).
edit: oops, I forgot that I separated flanks and non flanks.
When I look in the non flank hits, I see a lot of storm spells hits that does 0 damage against everything. Oddity, I have 92% crit rate on storm spell when I flanks.
In total, I have 411 hits that counts as dealing 0 damage. 17 of which are possibly erroneous due to being to blue dragonwing mobs.
I have a grand total of 2736 storm spell procs. The failure to deal damage is between 15,0219298% chance and 14,4005848% chance.
"The build works the best only with appropriate gear, so for those who can't afford the rings at-once should go with either Shadow Weaver or the fully stacked Draconic Templar Set."
no CW should ever go with the draconic templar set, for any reason. namely because, its terrible and there is no reason.
please don't spread ridiculous information like that in a thread designed to help newer players understand the fundamentals of the renegade tree.
Why are you jumping into the conclusions, pal? Who gave you the right?
Yes, you can stack up a decent Critical Strike with a Draconic Templar set and a white and blue dragon glyph. It's the alternative to high Vizier since you won't find new players having the gear from the above-mentioned post, so don't be a smartass. 10k new players who don't have gear can quite easely get the Draconic Templar set from the Tiamat, think practically for a moment. Be wary though that such high arrogance can have dire consequences, such as high pressure. Steady your horse, pal.
Also, I came to write about the ridiculously low DPS I'm seeing currently by wearing the High Vizier. I believe that after 15 feet respecs there seems to be a period when the whole thing gets superbly bugged. Not only that, but animations with the High Vizier are at least a second behind the animations of the newer gear. I wonder what's with this.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
I thought about that,too. But here's the procs from a fight with Glycamerax, showing a few "no damage" procs mixed in with normal procs.
EDIT: Anyway, it's a mystery we can keep looking in to. But if anyone else has questions about the build, suggestions or comments, please let me know.
I'm already thinking about updating the feat discussion to include a piece on Chilling Control, Phantasmal Destruction, Masterful Arcane Theft and Bitter Cold. I get the feel people generally think these feats can be interchanged depending on personal preference?
With masterful arcane theft you may end up with a slightly more constructive build that uses a bit more control by switching the CoI with the Entangling Force, thus having the Steal Time working as a both Initiator and a Finishing move, giving some very high numbers with steal time alone. Of course, the arcane stacks can be built by a shard of endless or an oppressive force or whatever, but the thing is - with Masterful Arcane theft you can have more choices for a rotation.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
try as i might, i can't get my ACT to show me any "no damage" returns on world dragons either, so like smulch, the only times i'm seeing that is on mobs that have some sort of damage shield
edit: i think smulch may be onto something. are you using the storm spell Offhand feature Ironzerg?
edit: in terms of what you mentioned before Ironzerg, about updating the feat discussion, my personal thoughts are that the only two truly "interchangeable" feats might be phantasmal destruction and masterful arcane theft. I think bitter cold is an absolute must for any CW build, since no feat in any tree gives your group that kind of bonus for that few points, and chilling control seems alright on paper i guess, but after having tested it for a few days on the PTR, i can honestly say its a waste of points due to how annoying sudden storm can be to target at times.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited January 2015
So my sheet crit is about 53%. On parses, I average somewhere around 60-70%.
As for the CHA belt, Charisma also gives you a bonus to Combat Advantage, which puts it over the top for me. You get the +crit% and +CA damage. Also, that extra +2% to critical strike isn't subject to diminishing returns, so you can achieve a higher "cap" on your critical strike.
So I don't think saying X stats = CHA bonus is quite apples to apples. So when you consider the CHA vs Black Ice or INT, you should account for that bonus to CA, which you will have a high up time on.
that's also true zerg, forgot to account for the bonus to CA damage from charisma as well
if i had the RP i'd love to check both belts out and see how much of a difference there really is
and i'm getting the same result smulch did, its definitely the offhand feature causing the no damage hits
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited January 2015
Indeed, Smulch. Indeed.
It looks like it's causing a "no damage" hit to occasionally occur in ACT. However, there's no visible "no damage" indication in the chat log. So it might be an ACT thing.
However, if you remove those "no damage" hits, and just count the overall crits versus non-crits, I think you'll see it comes close to about 95%+/- depending on your crit rate. What I think is happening is the offhand feature gives Storm Spell an extra 5% chance to hit on ANY hit, not just crits.
So what you're seeing is the effect of having non-crits trigger Storm Spell with the offhand feature. If the offhand feature hits on a non-crit, it's a non crit Storm Spell hit
What does that mean for it's usefulness now? I'll think about that tomorrow morning. It's late here and I'm going to join my wife in bed
What's the point in wanting to keep all stacks of arcane mastery, since it only profits to RoF or ST?
With cold spells boosted by chilling prensence, isn't chilling cloud dealing more damage than magic missile?
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited January 2015
Yes. By a slight boost is still a boost. In most situations, I can keep up the Arcane stacks without having to work MM into a single target rotation.
But there's nothing wrong with just spamming CC all day long. Honestly, it's what I do unless (for some strange reason) I'm really trying to throttle out maximum DPS on something.
I'm now 100% sure that the off hand feature for storm spell IS bugged.
I'm pretty sure that this was mentioned before either by Abbadon or by Chemboy, or someone earlier asap as the amulets appeared in November. This is why i didn't take any effort to spend AD on cubes to open up things, aside from the chilling presence.
I've seen some people using +5% Storm Spell stat. But i figure that even with it, Storm Spell still has it's own rules compared to a Critical Strike which you do, which is why the extra bonus on Chilling Presence is a more suitable goal.
EotS will proc Storm spell more.
As for the belt, I really don't want to test the CHA bonus, yet, but Black Ice is perfectly fine with me. I wait to get my hands on the Beholder artifact just to test how much it applies to naything, but, as usual, it's probably applying to a minimum damage of a Weapon, in a similar fashion that the Redcap slaying potions apply.
Regardless, I think that it's hard to build up the stacks of Chill because everything dies before that... Which is why i think that a good substitute is the Entangling Force on tab with a Sudden Storm building up the chilling stacks. It's not the DPS substitute by any means, but a bit more party-friendly before it's like "Hey, call that renegade in the PT and start the engine, just follow him to the boss".
Feat-wise I invested 5/5 in the masterful arcane thievery because I want to take that 5 arcane stacks into DPS by Steal Time.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
first off, you don't get a class feature slot on an amulet, so no, this has not been mentioned previously, this is an entirely new issue. can't even comment on the rest
after about 3 hours of parses today, i'm pretty convinced that the storm spell class feature buff for the golden dragon offhand is actually giving a 5% chance to proc storm spell on all attacks, rather than just when storm spell procs off of a critical hit
i can currently cause storm spell to activate via a non crit CoI or IT tick, which results in a non critical hit from storm spell on the target affected by the damage tick. I've submitted a bug report on this issue.
in terms of what is causing ACT to return a 0 damage strike, I think there is an issue both with the game's combat logging as well as the ACT Neverwinter plugin, as currently, Conduit of Ice is attempting to deal physical damage of 0 to a target dummy (according to the written game combat log) before dealing the appropriate cold damage in the next line of the combat log. This would suggest to me that there is a base issue both in the game's handling of the spell (though it does still deal appropriate damage) as well as how the algorithm in ACT is reading that spell's damage (in the case of storm spell procs from the offhand feature)
i'm certainly not a coding genius, so i can't wave a magic wand and fix it, but what i can say definitively is that its still a good choice to use the Storm Spell class feature option for the new offhands, because only ACT is recording 0 damage hits, the game combat log still shows damage 100% of the time
first off, you don't get a class feature slot on an amulet, so no, this has not been mentioned previously, this is an entirely new issue. can't even comment on the rest
after about 3 hours of parses today, i'm pretty convinced that the storm spell class feature buff for the golden dragon offhand is actually giving a 5% chance to proc storm spell on all attacks, rather than just when storm spell procs off of a critical hit
i can currently cause storm spell to activate via a non crit CoI or IT tick, which results in a non critical hit from storm spell on the target affected by the damage tick. I've submitted a bug report on this issue.
in terms of what is causing ACT to return a 0 damage strike, I think there is an issue both with the game's combat logging as well as the ACT Neverwinter plugin, as currently, Conduit of Ice is attempting to deal physical damage of 0 to a target dummy (according to the written game combat log) before dealing the appropriate cold damage in the next line of the combat log. This would suggest to me that there is a base issue both in the game's handling of the spell (though it does still deal appropriate damage) as well as how the algorithm in ACT is reading that spell's damage (in the case of storm spell procs from the offhand feature)
i'm certainly not a coding genius, so i can't wave a magic wand and fix it, but what i can say definitively is that its still a good choice to use the Storm Spell class feature option for the new offhands, because only ACT is recording 0 damage hits, the game combat log still shows damage 100% of the time
I will take a 5% extra storm spell proc on all attacks anyday.
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ironzerg79Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 4,942Arc User
edited January 2015
I agree. I'm not sure on the math, but the extra 5% on all attacks might work out to be better than just on crits.
Either way, it doesn't change anything. I still think it's stronger than the Chilling Presence one, and SS/CP are the only two features I keep slotted.
I think it's four to six seconds. The area of effect is extremely wide, affecting mobs from great distance.
- Extreme maneuverability.
- Constant CS%+ bonus for those couple of sec. Amazing alternative to not using the CA on Crit feat and invest in the oppressor Sudden Storm feat.
Takes practice, but provides at least 90% successfully placed Icy Terrains + Sudden Storm, resulting in insta-freeze. Great for solo play and daily cleaning. Amazing when there's no more stamina and your def isn't that good while you can't outheal the damage.
Steal Time on spellmastery has only that drawback of being unimaginably fast when used on a multitude of enemies, but in all honesty it's quite possibly the best spell to have on spell mastery, making PK runs way easier.
I used it in Valindra with the speeeeeeeeed build and it was so much fun.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
While testing it myself I got the same results, but also noticed that nightmare wizardry can give CA a lot longer than just the advertised 12 seconds. I was only testing ST on tab so I was not refreshing NW by accident. I had CA for as long as a minute in several cases after just a single cast of ST and waiting for the CA blue circles to disappear.
I have just found that a fun and very effective way to run older content and dailies is to slot eots and ST on tab. I kill most mob packs with just the combination of HV, CA, crit, wild hunt proc, and ST. If pack is tougher i drop IT then St for the bonus to ST and more SS procs. Not saying it is good for all situations, but I am saying that it is the fastest way to clear spaced out mobs where you have time for eots to reset. I also find it much more effective in the cleric phase of tiamat...but that may just be my crazy melee wizard style.
There seems to be a strange thing happening with HV. I was able to keep HV and NW (when it procced) up for over a minute (sometimes longer) with just one hit from an encounter that would proc both. This did not happen every time, but it did happen quite oftain. It did not happen when I was not wearing my full HV. Sometimes when HV would proc and NW would not, HV would stay up for over a min or longer, which leads me to believe that whenever HV gets "stuck" NW (and possibly other debuffs?) may get stuck for the extended time as well. Mind you I have only tested this on target dummies for about two hours.
There seems to be a strange thing happening with HV. I was able to keep HV and NW (when it procced) up for over a minute (sometimes longer) with just one hit from an encounter that would proc both. This did not happen every time, but it did happen quite oftain. It did not happen when I was not wearing my full HV. Sometimes when HV would proc and NW would not, HV would stay up for over a min or longer, which leads me to believe that whenever HV gets "stuck" NW (and possibly other debuffs?) may get stuck for the extended time as well. Mind you I have only tested this on target dummies for about two hours.
That's odd, did you use Shadow Weaver previously? One min seems strange indeed.
True Neutral
Left the Game due to heavy Damage Control & Missing Spanish Language
That's odd, did you use Shadow Weaver previously? One min seems strange indeed.
Sometimes much longer than a min. Again what I observed was HV debuff quite frequently lasting a min or more. If you have other "debuffs" like NW active when this occurs, then they too stay active for as long as the "stuck" HV debuff is active. This only occured when I used a power that applies the HV debuff.
I am starting to think that target dummies are useless for testing. The above refferenced issue of buffs like HV and NW cannot be replicated on my tests on the single dummy in IWD and the tests behave quite differently in the Trade of Blades vs Dread Ring Dummies. In the Trade of Blades I could get NW to stick for several mins but not HV. In Dread ring NW will stay up for a min or more but only when HV is active. Strange to see.
Blink dog is the highest dps increase you can get out of all companions. It's a straight 5% dps boost to all CA damage (multiplicative!). Same with the intellect devourer.
Comments
it depends on your current crit rating since the black ice belt gives crit rating that the charisma belt is lacking.
i personally get 3.1% crit chance from black ice belt, whereas i would get 4% from sash of charisma
with the charisma belt, you are going to end up with what i'd consider a wasted stat (deflect), so in my opinion, the black ice belt is superior in that it has armor pen and crit rating, rather than deflect and lifesteal, since for anyone wearing HV, armor pen becomes a premium stat later on unless you're planning to enchant for it, which in turn lowers your top end power since you can't slot a radiant instead
edit: oops, I forgot that I separated flanks and non flanks.
When I look in the non flank hits, I see a lot of storm spells hits that does 0 damage against everything. Oddity, I have 92% crit rate on storm spell when I flanks.
In total, I have 411 hits that counts as dealing 0 damage. 17 of which are possibly erroneous due to being to blue dragonwing mobs.
I have a grand total of 2736 storm spell procs. The failure to deal damage is between 15,0219298% chance and 14,4005848% chance.
Why are you jumping into the conclusions, pal? Who gave you the right?
Yes, you can stack up a decent Critical Strike with a Draconic Templar set and a white and blue dragon glyph. It's the alternative to high Vizier since you won't find new players having the gear from the above-mentioned post, so don't be a smartass. 10k new players who don't have gear can quite easely get the Draconic Templar set from the Tiamat, think practically for a moment. Be wary though that such high arrogance can have dire consequences, such as high pressure. Steady your horse, pal.
Also, I came to write about the ridiculously low DPS I'm seeing currently by wearing the High Vizier. I believe that after 15 feet respecs there seems to be a period when the whole thing gets superbly bugged. Not only that, but animations with the High Vizier are at least a second behind the animations of the newer gear. I wonder what's with this.
With masterful arcane theft you may end up with a slightly more constructive build that uses a bit more control by switching the CoI with the Entangling Force, thus having the Steal Time working as a both Initiator and a Finishing move, giving some very high numbers with steal time alone. Of course, the arcane stacks can be built by a shard of endless or an oppressive force or whatever, but the thing is - with Masterful Arcane theft you can have more choices for a rotation.
edit: i think smulch may be onto something. are you using the storm spell Offhand feature Ironzerg?
edit: in terms of what you mentioned before Ironzerg, about updating the feat discussion, my personal thoughts are that the only two truly "interchangeable" feats might be phantasmal destruction and masterful arcane theft. I think bitter cold is an absolute must for any CW build, since no feat in any tree gives your group that kind of bonus for that few points, and chilling control seems alright on paper i guess, but after having tested it for a few days on the PTR, i can honestly say its a waste of points due to how annoying sudden storm can be to target at times.
As for the CHA belt, Charisma also gives you a bonus to Combat Advantage, which puts it over the top for me. You get the +crit% and +CA damage. Also, that extra +2% to critical strike isn't subject to diminishing returns, so you can achieve a higher "cap" on your critical strike.
So I don't think saying X stats = CHA bonus is quite apples to apples. So when you consider the CHA vs Black Ice or INT, you should account for that bonus to CA, which you will have a high up time on.
I'm now 100% sure that the off hand feature for storm spell IS bugged.
if i had the RP i'd love to check both belts out and see how much of a difference there really is
and i'm getting the same result smulch did, its definitely the offhand feature causing the no damage hits
It looks like it's causing a "no damage" hit to occasionally occur in ACT. However, there's no visible "no damage" indication in the chat log. So it might be an ACT thing.
However, if you remove those "no damage" hits, and just count the overall crits versus non-crits, I think you'll see it comes close to about 95%+/- depending on your crit rate. What I think is happening is the offhand feature gives Storm Spell an extra 5% chance to hit on ANY hit, not just crits.
So what you're seeing is the effect of having non-crits trigger Storm Spell with the offhand feature. If the offhand feature hits on a non-crit, it's a non crit Storm Spell hit
What does that mean for it's usefulness now? I'll think about that tomorrow morning. It's late here and I'm going to join my wife in bed
With cold spells boosted by chilling prensence, isn't chilling cloud dealing more damage than magic missile?
But there's nothing wrong with just spamming CC all day long. Honestly, it's what I do unless (for some strange reason) I'm really trying to throttle out maximum DPS on something.
I'm pretty sure that this was mentioned before either by Abbadon or by Chemboy, or someone earlier asap as the amulets appeared in November. This is why i didn't take any effort to spend AD on cubes to open up things, aside from the chilling presence.
I've seen some people using +5% Storm Spell stat. But i figure that even with it, Storm Spell still has it's own rules compared to a Critical Strike which you do, which is why the extra bonus on Chilling Presence is a more suitable goal.
EotS will proc Storm spell more.
As for the belt, I really don't want to test the CHA bonus, yet, but Black Ice is perfectly fine with me. I wait to get my hands on the Beholder artifact just to test how much it applies to naything, but, as usual, it's probably applying to a minimum damage of a Weapon, in a similar fashion that the Redcap slaying potions apply.
Regardless, I think that it's hard to build up the stacks of Chill because everything dies before that...
Feat-wise I invested 5/5 in the masterful arcane thievery because I want to take that 5 arcane stacks into DPS by Steal Time.
after about 3 hours of parses today, i'm pretty convinced that the storm spell class feature buff for the golden dragon offhand is actually giving a 5% chance to proc storm spell on all attacks, rather than just when storm spell procs off of a critical hit
i can currently cause storm spell to activate via a non crit CoI or IT tick, which results in a non critical hit from storm spell on the target affected by the damage tick. I've submitted a bug report on this issue.
in terms of what is causing ACT to return a 0 damage strike, I think there is an issue both with the game's combat logging as well as the ACT Neverwinter plugin, as currently, Conduit of Ice is attempting to deal physical damage of 0 to a target dummy (according to the written game combat log) before dealing the appropriate cold damage in the next line of the combat log. This would suggest to me that there is a base issue both in the game's handling of the spell (though it does still deal appropriate damage) as well as how the algorithm in ACT is reading that spell's damage (in the case of storm spell procs from the offhand feature)
i'm certainly not a coding genius, so i can't wave a magic wand and fix it, but what i can say definitively is that its still a good choice to use the Storm Spell class feature option for the new offhands, because only ACT is recording 0 damage hits, the game combat log still shows damage 100% of the time
I will take a 5% extra storm spell proc on all attacks anyday.
Either way, it doesn't change anything. I still think it's stronger than the Chilling Presence one, and SS/CP are the only two features I keep slotted.
What is the total time that CA is active when you activate ST on Tab?
- Extreme maneuverability.
- Constant CS%+ bonus for those couple of sec. Amazing alternative to not using the CA on Crit feat and invest in the oppressor Sudden Storm feat.
Takes practice, but provides at least 90% successfully placed Icy Terrains + Sudden Storm, resulting in insta-freeze. Great for solo play and daily cleaning. Amazing when there's no more stamina and your def isn't that good while you can't outheal the damage.
Steal Time on spellmastery has only that drawback of being unimaginably fast when used on a multitude of enemies, but in all honesty it's quite possibly the best spell to have on spell mastery, making PK runs way easier.
I used it in Valindra with the speeeeeeeeed build and it was so much fun.
steal time on tab is a waste
That's odd, did you use Shadow Weaver previously? One min seems strange indeed.
Sometimes much longer than a min. Again what I observed was HV debuff quite frequently lasting a min or more. If you have other "debuffs" like NW active when this occurs, then they too stay active for as long as the "stuck" HV debuff is active. This only occured when I used a power that applies the HV debuff.