What has changed is that there is no longer one clear direction for the PVE farmer to go, i.e., "go to Castle Never". Nowadays instead, there are a lot of little options for earning small to medium amounts of AD.
No, there are small and pathetic options for earning AD. Back then, it wasn't just Castle Never. Tier 2 dungeons like Temple of the Spider, Karrundax, SpellPlague, Frozen Heart also netted players 300-500k if they got tier 2 armor in the delves chest.
No, there are small and pathetic options for earning AD. Back then, it wasn't just Castle Never. Tier 2 dungeons like Temple of the Spider, Karrundax, SpellPlague, Frozen Heart also netted players 300-500k if they got tier 2 armor in the delves chest.
Maybe in beta, can't remember the prices back then. After a few weeks of open beta chest drops were btc. The boe was in GG or regular dungeon boss drops and with the exception of CN fairly rare. Considering their rarity outside of GG (which you pretty much had to be delzoun and farm regularly) you'd be lucky to get a good t2 drop every other week. You can now by selling lots of little things make 30-80k a night easily. This beats the amount you'd make in regular t2 dungeons. Now if you were farming DK and CN split farming, yeah you're making less. No one argues that. But you did not make more from regular t2 dungeons.
Maybe in beta, can't remember the prices back then. After a few weeks of open beta chest drops were btc. The boe was in GG or regular dungeon boss drops and with the exception of CN fairly rare. Considering their rarity outside of GG (which you pretty much had to be delzoun and farm regularly) you'd be lucky to get a good t2 drop every other week. You can now by selling lots of little things make 30-80k a night easily. This beats the amount you'd make in regular t2 dungeons. Now if you were farming DK and CN split farming, yeah you're making less. No one argues that. But you did not make more from regular t2 dungeons.
Yes I was talking about open beta and shortly after release (when this game had the most players its ever had).
Yes I was talking about open beta and shortly after release (when this game had the most players its ever had).
With notable exceptions such as wow that peaked during WotLK iirc, most games have peak populations right at launch lately. (open beta was launch for the purposes of this conversation) People are curious, go to see if the game is for them, then either stay or don't. Comparing current population to open beta population is invalid because there was no way it was going to stay that high for long no matter what.
What you as a weak person or player must realize is the strong prey upon the weak. Its nature, If the 23k GS players couldnt wail on the 15K GS players they would not enjoy the PVP. The devs of this game have experience, to think they are doing the terrible class balancing they are doing accidentally is absurd. The only way to revitalize PVP is to make it something the weaker players need in order to advance their characters. Even IWD didnt succeed in doing that, which is why the open world PVP failed. The lion needs the gazelle's.
With notable exceptions such as wow that peaked during WotLK iirc, most games have peak populations right at launch lately. (open beta was launch for the purposes of this conversation) People are curious, go to see if the game is for them, then either stay or don't. Comparing current population to open beta population is invalid because there was no way it was going to stay that high for long no matter what.
I agree with you. But that was a side-comment you quoted from me that probably was irrelevant to the point I was trying to make. Disregard that.
What you as a weak person or player must realize is the strong prey upon the weak. Its nature, If the 23k GS players couldnt wail on the 15K GS players they would not enjoy the PVP. The devs of this game have experience, to think they are doing the terrible class balancing they are doing accidentally is absurd. The only way to revitalize PVP is to make it something the weaker players need in order to advance their characters. Even IWD didnt succeed in doing that, which is why the open world PVP failed. The lion needs the gazelle's.
Well, seeing as the powercreep introduced and PVE being unfarmable introduced a big problem in the community. The gap between the "haves" and "have-nots" increased greatly and so there is a big imbalance. People can fantasize all they want, gearscore has a lot to do with a player's potential efficiency to perform. Now if you pit 2 players with 5000-10000 difference in gearscore against each other, it will be imbalanced.
No, there are small and pathetic options for earning AD. Back then, it wasn't just Castle Never. Tier 2 dungeons like Temple of the Spider, Karrundax, SpellPlague, Frozen Heart also netted players 300-500k if they got tier 2 armor in the delves chest.
Look, you are just going to complain and complain and complain that this game isn't exactly what it was like back in Open Beta (your memory of which, by the way, is clouded by nostalgia - before the end chest gear became bound, T1 and T2 sets were all dirt cheap on the AH as well, JUST LIKE TODAY, because they were overfarmed). This game has moved on and you should either stop whining and accept the state of the game as it is, even if you don't like it, or move on to something else.
The "jackpot" method of earning AD - getting that one single big drop that will net you millions - is largely gone, yes. Actually, you should be glad that it is gone, because this method relied very heavily on RNG, and we all know you are not a fan of RNG. Would the High Vizier Tunic drop in Temple of the Spider or not? Who would win the drop? Only 1 of the 5 party members got the big payout, everyone else got <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Now there are more reliable ways that DON'T rely so heavily on RNG that yield smaller amounts of AD, but they all add up.
I am honestly sick and tired of people who come to the forums and do nothing but badmouth the game the whole time. I mean, what's the point? If you are so sick of this game, then leave. It's a GAME, not a job.
If PVE is so horrible and unfarmable, how did I get my CW all the way to 19k in 7 months' time, without spending any money on gear, and without farming Castle Never "back in the day"? Hmm?
And no I don't play the game 24/7. I actually have a job. So that's not the answer.
If PVE is so horrible and unfarmable, how did I get my CW all the way to 19k in 7 months' time, without spending any money on gear, and without farming Castle Never "back in the day"? Hmm?
And no I don't play the game 24/7. I actually have a job. So that's not the answer.
Well you have the benefit of being familiar with the game by playing since open beta.....and it took you 7 months to still not be BIS. I think that's the answer right there.
What you as a weak person or player must realize is the strong prey upon the weak. Its nature, If the 23k GS players couldnt wail on the 15K GS players they would not enjoy the PVP. The devs of this game have experience, to think they are doing the terrible class balancing they are doing accidentally is absurd. The only way to revitalize PVP is to make it something the weaker players need in order to advance their characters. Even IWD didnt succeed in doing that, which is why the open world PVP failed. The lion needs the gazelle's.
What??
Every BiS player is tiered, SICK of lesser geared players. Because its no challenge.
LOL to the assumption that we "enjoy" hunting 15k pugs. Its boring as hell. Why do you think pvp guilds do sync queues and inhouses? I didnt put 100m+ into a character to prey on newbs and lesser geared players.
Most BiS players are BiS because they min/max and like the challenge playing against other min/max.
Thats the only way to determine true skill and if you are good. The status BiS levels the playing field.
All of this agonising about GS and friends is pointless while poorly-geared TRs can murder 40k+ HP characters in a second flat, from stealth, it will still suck until it's fixed. The choice is to dust off your own TR and suck it down (and hate yourself for being so cheap and skillless at others' expense), get murdered or just avoid PvP. That simple.
Well you have the benefit of being familiar with the game by playing since open beta.....and it took you 7 months to still not be BIS. I think that's the answer right there.
What, so BIS should be achievable in 1 week's time or something?
The POINT is, that all you people who say "PVE is unfarmable QQ" aren't really trying, or are trying methods that no longer work (getting that one single big drop). Look, you just AREN'T going to get a Shard of Valindra's Crown drop from VT. So stop wasting your time trying to do that. Do more worthwhile things instead.
And my GS would be a lot higher if I had not chosen to divide my efforts among 3 lvl 60 characters, and if I had not refused to buy botted RP. Other people without these limitations would have done better. And I've made many mistakes along the way. The point is that even with all of these limitations I've done quite well, unlike the doom-and-gloomers around here who insist that new players are doomed to 13k forever.
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toxicwolfieMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 41Arc User
edited January 2015
As to the state of the game.I have to disagree that it is having end of days problems.If you think it is go check out PWE's other game Forsaken World.Just looking at the forum there will show you a dead and doomed game.
As for PvP.I been back playing here again for a few weeks after being gone for six months.Seems to me that more people are starting to try to PvP.If not for any other reason than to farm AD.And that's all it takes to get some of them hooked on trying to do it more.Also since being back I have run across but a few troll groups.Today was one of the days where I did.But out of four matches that was the only loss.
Seems to me that the time you try to PvP also plays a part in if you will run across the jerky troll groups.Not sure if it's because they are kids in school or adults that work the same hours,but the afternoon (mid to late) is when I PvP most and don't see as many if any at all.
This game lacks a GvG system, that's why endgame PvP community reports those problems. I think some kind of system (a separated queue, as many suggested) for GvG/premade matches are needed, it is a must-must if you want to have a proper PvP community. Without this, this game will always lack a trully competitive scene, since you can't GvG (which is, in fact, the objective of PvP endgame). This idea should benefit both sides (PWE and user database) with not so much effort being put on the project. Also an arena where you can 1v1, 2v2 or 3v3 (or a 3v3 mode) would be great too. PvP on this game needs serious love, even if this is mainly a PvE game (personally dunno why stick to just one mode when both PvP and PvE can be great, specially on a game like this).
Anyways, everyone should keep in mind that PvP is never fair, doesnt matter what game are we talking about. May the classes be perfectly balanced, the human factor is always there. Cheers!
They should get rid of this idiotic mechanic, that premade gets matched against premade, no matter what. Or they could at last ask, if you want to join a premade.
I got a 19k PvP HR and ELO grouped me with a 7k 'premade' against a 23k+ PvP premade with all buff pots between heaven and earth gulped down. ONE of them would have been able to kill my whole team, most likely.
The ELO system sucked for ages and it will be broken till the dawn of time. The problem is, that the GS gap grows and ELO keeps sucking, so a few month ago you had to fight 5k players with 15k GS and now you have the same or new 5k ppl fighting against 25k GS ppl.
In half a year we might have fights between 5k ppl and 30k+ GS players.
I mean a guy who comes in with 3k GS is no newbie, he is simply a troll, who wants his AD and cares a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about others fun. Ok, i know this is an MMO and trolls are everywhere, but filtering them in this case would be easy.
I assume you meant 13k GS. My toon has 13k GS, and I would still consider myself a newbie - I've only been playing since October. Yes, I que up for PvP on occasion, and yes mostly for the AD, but I don't consider myself as being a troll. If the opposing team is also a pug, I'll fight, but if we're a pug up against a premade, what is the point?
Today I qued for the 4x's for PvP for the 4k AD reward. The first three matches were pug vs pug, and and I had a good time, did my best to cap and fight on the nodes, got a win in, and saw some improvement in my kill/death ratio. I still suck, but I'm beginning to get better. The speed of PvP takes some getting used to.
As far as "others fun" goes, the last match was up against an obvious premade group. My team valiantly went to slaughter a few times, figured out quickly what we were up against, and proceeded to camp out while the other team did "pushups". Woo hoo! I'm sure it was satisfying for all. Thats not being a troll, its simply being smart enough not to smash your head against a brick wall.
What??
Every BiS player is tiered, SICK of lesser geared players. Because its no challenge.
LOL to the assumption that we "enjoy" hunting 15k pugs. Its boring as hell. Why do you think pvp guilds do sync queues and inhouses? I didnt put 100m+ into a character to prey on newbs and lesser geared players.
Most BiS players are BiS because they min/max and like the challenge playing against other min/max.
Thats the only way to determine true skill and if you are good. The status BiS levels the playing field.
btw how is it even possible to pump 100m+ into a toon, do you have all the artifacts at legendary or pets included?
Well you have the benefit of being familiar with the game by playing since open beta.....and it took you 7 months to still not be BIS. I think that's the answer right there.
I think his point was that it shouldnt take you 7 months (actually 1.5 years seeing as you join Jun 2013) to farm BIS gear. You can get high GS, but getting Orange items is nearly impossible when playing legit. Sure you can play the economy, buy low and sell high, should you have to play the AH to get gear? You dont even need to play dungeons in a a game CALLED dungeons and dragons to get BIS gear!
All you really need to do is do dailies through module 3, get blackice gear for the BIS gear. As far as artifact-equip goes, well you just need a plastic card with fancy numbers on it.
The POINT is, that all you people who say "PVE is unfarmable QQ" aren't really trying, or are trying methods that no longer work (getting that one single big drop). Look, you just AREN'T going to get a Shard of Valindra's Crown drop from VT. So stop wasting your time trying to do that. Do more worthwhile things instead.
And my GS would be a lot higher if I had not chosen to divide my efforts among 3 lvl 60 characters, and if I had not refused to buy botted RP. Other people without these limitations would have done better. And I've made many mistakes along the way. The point is that even with all of these limitations I've done quite well, unlike the doom-and-gloomers around here who insist that new players are doomed to 13k forever.
Noone is saying you HAVE to have artifact equipment to do PVE gear. But there really are not any good methods of farming the game anymore, this is true. Aside from doing leadership on all your characters and earning 20k+ AD a day passively, this CAN add up. Also, now that rank 7/8 enchants are SO much cheaper than they used to be, what used to cost millions 1 year + ago , now costs only a few hundred thousand AD.
I think the big "QQers" come from artifact equipment having no way to farm RP needed. I mean even if you could earn say 2k RP every 5 minutes.
Do you realize this would take 191 hours of playing at that rate to earn ONE orange item? Thats nearly 8 game days played right there.
If the average player plays even 3 hours a day, 5 days a week and say 4 hours a day on weekends (so 23 hours a week - the equivalent of a part time job), this would take them OVER 2 MONTHS to farm 1 piece of gear at "BIS levels". Within 2 months time, now that ONE item you farmed is probably now obsolete.
Whats worse is: I dont know ANY way to "farm" 2k RP every 5 minutes. Cryptic seems to think that 150k RP is worth 2000 zen so even BUYING your artifact item would cost you over $600 by their math for ONE piece.
Both of those calculations seem LUDICROUS to me for gear that "expires" nearly every module.
So its not JUST no way to "farm AD" its mainly (from my perspective) the RP issue. People only complain now because the best method of getting RP is to buy it via AD- which there is also no real good ways to farm either, that and RP prices keep going up too,
Well why shouldn't it take 7 months? (And I've only been playing this character for 7 months, not since June 2013.) Considering the mistakes I have made and the limitations I have placed on myself, I think I'm doing a fairly good job so far anyway.
People complain about not being able to get to BIS in just a few months' time, and when I or others point out that what they really want is just an IWIN button that they can click and get immediately to BIS, they say "oh no no no, we just want an honest way to farm AD's/RP's in order to get to BIS in a 'reasonable' amount of time", but the term 'reasonable' is never defined. BIS should be achievable by legitimate farming in... what, 2 months? 1 month? 1 week? BIS is something that is supposed to take a while to achieve. YES it is a hook to get you to keep playing the game, I get that. I don't mind that.
And honestly I think a lot of complainers here really do just want an IWIN button, because this goes with the whole self-absorbed mentality that pervades this game. The 10k'ers are endlessly scapegoated for causing fails in Tiamat, when the MUCH BIGGER problem are the 20k'ers who give up early even when the raid is winnable because they are unwilling to sacrifice just 10-15 minutes of additional time on their part to even attempt to get a victory. People just want automatic victories while putting in just minimal effort. And it goes all the way back to the previous mods of this game. When T2 dungeons were much harder, before Mod 1, most groups glitched the bosses instead of doing them legit. When Mod 1 came out and MC was hard, most groups either used a map exploit or used the "interrupt" glitch, instead of doing it legit. When Mod 2 came out and VT was hard, most groups either again used exploits or just farmed 1/2 and bought fragments instead of earning the gear via drops. When Mod 3 came out and we got Open World PVP, most PVPers joined the same faction and proceeded to just roflstomp the newbs and the unprepared on the other faction, choosing not to challenge themselves by fighting other worthy opponents, just because they wanted an easymode route to completion of the PVP campaign.
People just want easymode over challenge. That is the real reason people complain about RP and complain about not having 7xLegendary artifacts within 1 week of getting to level 60.
Do you really think people give an eff about ridiculous PVP, where you are being 1-3 hitted by TR's anyway?
You don't have a chance anyway, so why bother with it?
They just want their AD and that's just fine.
Because they keep moving the goalposts. It may take you 7 months' time to achieve one thing, but if they add four more things that also take 7 months to achieve over the course of that time, you'll just keep doing sisyphean tasks while the end goal of being temporarily "complete" remains tantalizingly out of reach.
Simply put, the amount of time required to complete a set of content should not be greater than the pace at which they release new content, and it should ideally be considerably smaller to allow for the existence of multiple characters that are reasonably up-to-date.
That is how sub games do it. However needing to pay to get bis before the new release is this games financial model.
Simply put, the amount of time required to complete a set of content should not be greater than the pace at which they release new content, and it should ideally be considerably smaller to allow for the existence of multiple characters that are reasonably up-to-date.
If by "complete a set of content" you mean complete a campaign, then I agree with you.
But if by "complete a set of content" you mean get all of your refinable items to legendary, then I disagree - because these things do not change (by and large) so suddenly from one mod to the next. Look at artifacts. They were introduced in Module 2 and the basic idea of artifacts have remain unchanged ever since. They aren't items like gear, which are expected to be tossed away once the next mod hits as you chase the next and greatest set of gear. They are intended to stick with you for a long period of time.
I think that is why now the artifact gear at legendary seems OP. Because it is meant to last for many modules' worth of content and not be obsolesced by the next module.
But you don't have to take the new artifacts in the new modules. They are just additional options, not must-have upgrades. Artifacts and artifact gear are intended to be durable items that remain outstanding items over many modules' worth of content. They are not like ordinary gear that is supposed to get tossed away each new module.
I still have my original Lantern on my CW. Because it is still the best artifact for him for one of those three slots, even though it's a Mod 2 artifact.
Are you seriously suggesting that players ought to be able to upgrade EVERY new artifact to legendary EACH module?
You don't need to get *every* new artifact to legendary, but having one per slot at a humane standard is nice.
Then please clarify, with precision, what you mean by "humane standard".
I see people write this sort of thing all the time. What I suspect they really mean is that they want an instant IWIN button so that they can get full BiS Legendary status within 1 week or something. Because people just want easymode.
Then please clarify, with precision, what you mean by "humane standard".
I see people write this sort of thing all the time. What I suspect they really mean is that they want an instant IWIN button so that they can get full BiS Legendary status within 1 week or something. Because people just want easymode.
The loot progression when this game was in open beta and first released is a good model. The dungeons took more skill. Players weren't overgeared. Players could actually run dungeons not merely to get their gear..but also gasp farm for diamonds. There were tons of legit f2p players who were able to acquire lots of wealth. Everyone was running dungeons because it wasn't a waste of time and was very profitable. Other than shirts and pants, the BIS gear came from dungeons and not the auction house (tier 2 gear, ancient weapons, ancient necklaces and jewelry).
The loot progression when this game was in open beta and first released is a good model. The dungeons took more skill. Players weren't overgeared. Players could actually run dungeons not merely to get their gear..but also gasp farm for diamonds. There were tons of legit f2p players who were able to acquire lots of wealth. Everyone was running dungeons because it wasn't a waste of time and was very profitable. Other than shirts and pants, the BIS gear came from dungeons and not the auction house (tier 2 gear, ancient weapons, ancient necklaces and jewelry).
First, your memory is severely clouded by nostalgia. The T2 dungeons and CN were exploited to no end. Almost no one did them legit, and that goes double for CN.
Second, you didn't answer my question. We now have refining in order to get BIS gear. You don't like that. Tough noogies. That die has already been cast. So, now that we have refining, how long should it take to get to BiS? Give a concrete number, otherwise you're just like all the others who are whining because there isn't an instant IWIN button.
Personally I believe that for all of the non-refinable gear, it should be realistically possible to get them all in one mod's time. And that is currently the case. For the refinable gear - which, let me remind you and everyone, is NOT MEANT to become obsolete in just one mod's time - I have no issue with it taking several mods in order to get it to legendary. For instance, for an artifact that you acquired in Mod 2, it is totally possible and reasonable with legit farming methods, and without botting, to have gotten that artifact to legendary by now. Is it possible and reasonable with legit farming methods to have gotten all 3 artifacts to legendary by now? No, I don't think so. But that's okay because those are newer artifacts.
The loot progression when this game was in open beta and first released is a good model. The dungeons took more skill. Players weren't overgeared. Players could actually run dungeons not merely to get their gear..but also gasp farm for diamonds. There were tons of legit f2p players who were able to acquire lots of wealth. Everyone was running dungeons because it wasn't a waste of time and was very profitable. Other than shirts and pants, the BIS gear came from dungeons and not the auction house (tier 2 gear, ancient weapons, ancient necklaces and jewelry).
Um no. There were almost no legit runs in beta. Beta was to paraphrase Star Wars a wretched hive of scum and villainy. It disgusted me so bad I left and only came back in mod2 when I heard of the legit channel and decided to give the game another shot. You have some serious rose tinted glasses when it comes to the past.
First, your memory is severely clouded by nostalgia. The T2 dungeons and CN were exploited to no end. Almost no one did them legit, and that goes double for CN.
Second, you didn't answer my question. We now have refining in order to get BIS gear. You don't like that. Tough noogies. That die has already been cast. So, now that we have refining, how long should it take to get to BiS? Give a concrete number, otherwise you're just like all the others who are whining because there isn't an instant IWIN button.
Personally I believe that for all of the non-refinable gear, it should be realistically possible to get them all in one mod's time. And that is currently the case. For the refinable gear - which, let me remind you and everyone, is NOT MEANT to become obsolete in just one mod's time - I have no issue with it taking several mods in order to get it to legendary. For instance, for an artifact that you acquired in Mod 2, it is totally possible and reasonable with legit farming methods, and without botting, to have gotten that artifact to legendary by now. Is it possible and reasonable with legit farming methods to have gotten all 3 artifacts to legendary by now? No, I don't think so. But that's okay because those are newer artifacts.
There were several dungeons such as Spellplague, Frozen Heart and Temple of the Spider that were easily done legit. Oh speaking of which, there are still several exploits on every new module and the old dungeons, no one just bothers to do them anymore.
Now then, your best response to the refinement system is: "tough noogies"? Are you running out of explanations that you have to use that term?
The fact of the matter is, the powercreep has pointed everyone to the auction house and zen store, not farming dungeons. BIS gear should drop in dungeons, none of this refining nonesense. If you want to gate the loot, gate it through difficult and challenging content, not the auction house and credit cards.
Um no. There were almost no legit runs in beta. Beta was to paraphrase Star Wars a wretched hive of scum and villainy. It disgusted me so bad I left and only came back in mod2 when I heard of the legit channel and decided to give the game another shot. You have some serious rose tinted glasses when it comes to the past.
Whether or not the dungeons were ran legit or not, the system still produced a more viable loot progression system in which players can get and earn BIS gear as well as make a decent profit re-running the dungeons. Fact remains everything pointed to farming PVE content and not simply buying refinement stones on the auction house/zen store.
Comments
No, there are small and pathetic options for earning AD. Back then, it wasn't just Castle Never. Tier 2 dungeons like Temple of the Spider, Karrundax, SpellPlague, Frozen Heart also netted players 300-500k if they got tier 2 armor in the delves chest.
Maybe in beta, can't remember the prices back then. After a few weeks of open beta chest drops were btc. The boe was in GG or regular dungeon boss drops and with the exception of CN fairly rare. Considering their rarity outside of GG (which you pretty much had to be delzoun and farm regularly) you'd be lucky to get a good t2 drop every other week. You can now by selling lots of little things make 30-80k a night easily. This beats the amount you'd make in regular t2 dungeons. Now if you were farming DK and CN split farming, yeah you're making less. No one argues that. But you did not make more from regular t2 dungeons.
Yes I was talking about open beta and shortly after release (when this game had the most players its ever had).
With notable exceptions such as wow that peaked during WotLK iirc, most games have peak populations right at launch lately. (open beta was launch for the purposes of this conversation) People are curious, go to see if the game is for them, then either stay or don't. Comparing current population to open beta population is invalid because there was no way it was going to stay that high for long no matter what.
I agree with you. But that was a side-comment you quoted from me that probably was irrelevant to the point I was trying to make. Disregard that.
Well, seeing as the powercreep introduced and PVE being unfarmable introduced a big problem in the community. The gap between the "haves" and "have-nots" increased greatly and so there is a big imbalance. People can fantasize all they want, gearscore has a lot to do with a player's potential efficiency to perform. Now if you pit 2 players with 5000-10000 difference in gearscore against each other, it will be imbalanced.
Look, you are just going to complain and complain and complain that this game isn't exactly what it was like back in Open Beta (your memory of which, by the way, is clouded by nostalgia - before the end chest gear became bound, T1 and T2 sets were all dirt cheap on the AH as well, JUST LIKE TODAY, because they were overfarmed). This game has moved on and you should either stop whining and accept the state of the game as it is, even if you don't like it, or move on to something else.
The "jackpot" method of earning AD - getting that one single big drop that will net you millions - is largely gone, yes. Actually, you should be glad that it is gone, because this method relied very heavily on RNG, and we all know you are not a fan of RNG. Would the High Vizier Tunic drop in Temple of the Spider or not? Who would win the drop? Only 1 of the 5 party members got the big payout, everyone else got <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>. Now there are more reliable ways that DON'T rely so heavily on RNG that yield smaller amounts of AD, but they all add up.
I am honestly sick and tired of people who come to the forums and do nothing but badmouth the game the whole time. I mean, what's the point? If you are so sick of this game, then leave. It's a GAME, not a job.
If PVE is so horrible and unfarmable, how did I get my CW all the way to 19k in 7 months' time, without spending any money on gear, and without farming Castle Never "back in the day"? Hmm?
And no I don't play the game 24/7. I actually have a job. So that's not the answer.
Well you have the benefit of being familiar with the game by playing since open beta.....and it took you 7 months to still not be BIS. I think that's the answer right there.
What??
Every BiS player is tiered, SICK of lesser geared players. Because its no challenge.
LOL to the assumption that we "enjoy" hunting 15k pugs. Its boring as hell. Why do you think pvp guilds do sync queues and inhouses? I didnt put 100m+ into a character to prey on newbs and lesser geared players.
Most BiS players are BiS because they min/max and like the challenge playing against other min/max.
Thats the only way to determine true skill and if you are good. The status BiS levels the playing field.
What, so BIS should be achievable in 1 week's time or something?
The POINT is, that all you people who say "PVE is unfarmable QQ" aren't really trying, or are trying methods that no longer work (getting that one single big drop). Look, you just AREN'T going to get a Shard of Valindra's Crown drop from VT. So stop wasting your time trying to do that. Do more worthwhile things instead.
And my GS would be a lot higher if I had not chosen to divide my efforts among 3 lvl 60 characters, and if I had not refused to buy botted RP. Other people without these limitations would have done better. And I've made many mistakes along the way. The point is that even with all of these limitations I've done quite well, unlike the doom-and-gloomers around here who insist that new players are doomed to 13k forever.
As for PvP.I been back playing here again for a few weeks after being gone for six months.Seems to me that more people are starting to try to PvP.If not for any other reason than to farm AD.And that's all it takes to get some of them hooked on trying to do it more.Also since being back I have run across but a few troll groups.Today was one of the days where I did.But out of four matches that was the only loss.
Seems to me that the time you try to PvP also plays a part in if you will run across the jerky troll groups.Not sure if it's because they are kids in school or adults that work the same hours,but the afternoon (mid to late) is when I PvP most and don't see as many if any at all.
Anyways, everyone should keep in mind that PvP is never fair, doesnt matter what game are we talking about. May the classes be perfectly balanced, the human factor is always there. Cheers!
I got a 19k PvP HR and ELO grouped me with a 7k 'premade' against a 23k+ PvP premade with all buff pots between heaven and earth gulped down. ONE of them would have been able to kill my whole team, most likely.
The ELO system sucked for ages and it will be broken till the dawn of time. The problem is, that the GS gap grows and ELO keeps sucking, so a few month ago you had to fight 5k players with 15k GS and now you have the same or new 5k ppl fighting against 25k GS ppl.
In half a year we might have fights between 5k ppl and 30k+ GS players.
I assume you meant 13k GS. My toon has 13k GS, and I would still consider myself a newbie - I've only been playing since October. Yes, I que up for PvP on occasion, and yes mostly for the AD, but I don't consider myself as being a troll. If the opposing team is also a pug, I'll fight, but if we're a pug up against a premade, what is the point?
Today I qued for the 4x's for PvP for the 4k AD reward. The first three matches were pug vs pug, and and I had a good time, did my best to cap and fight on the nodes, got a win in, and saw some improvement in my kill/death ratio. I still suck, but I'm beginning to get better. The speed of PvP takes some getting used to.
As far as "others fun" goes, the last match was up against an obvious premade group. My team valiantly went to slaughter a few times, figured out quickly what we were up against, and proceeded to camp out while the other team did "pushups". Woo hoo! I'm sure it was satisfying for all. Thats not being a troll, its simply being smart enough not to smash your head against a brick wall.
btw how is it even possible to pump 100m+ into a toon, do you have all the artifacts at legendary or pets included?
I think his point was that it shouldnt take you 7 months (actually 1.5 years seeing as you join Jun 2013) to farm BIS gear. You can get high GS, but getting Orange items is nearly impossible when playing legit. Sure you can play the economy, buy low and sell high, should you have to play the AH to get gear? You dont even need to play dungeons in a a game CALLED dungeons and dragons to get BIS gear!
All you really need to do is do dailies through module 3, get blackice gear for the BIS gear. As far as artifact-equip goes, well you just need a plastic card with fancy numbers on it.
Noone is saying you HAVE to have artifact equipment to do PVE gear. But there really are not any good methods of farming the game anymore, this is true. Aside from doing leadership on all your characters and earning 20k+ AD a day passively, this CAN add up. Also, now that rank 7/8 enchants are SO much cheaper than they used to be, what used to cost millions 1 year + ago , now costs only a few hundred thousand AD.
I think the big "QQers" come from artifact equipment having no way to farm RP needed. I mean even if you could earn say 2k RP every 5 minutes.
Do you realize this would take 191 hours of playing at that rate to earn ONE orange item? Thats nearly 8 game days played right there.
If the average player plays even 3 hours a day, 5 days a week and say 4 hours a day on weekends (so 23 hours a week - the equivalent of a part time job), this would take them OVER 2 MONTHS to farm 1 piece of gear at "BIS levels". Within 2 months time, now that ONE item you farmed is probably now obsolete.
Whats worse is: I dont know ANY way to "farm" 2k RP every 5 minutes. Cryptic seems to think that 150k RP is worth 2000 zen so even BUYING your artifact item would cost you over $600 by their math for ONE piece.
Both of those calculations seem LUDICROUS to me for gear that "expires" nearly every module.
So its not JUST no way to "farm AD" its mainly (from my perspective) the RP issue. People only complain now because the best method of getting RP is to buy it via AD- which there is also no real good ways to farm either, that and RP prices keep going up too,
People complain about not being able to get to BIS in just a few months' time, and when I or others point out that what they really want is just an IWIN button that they can click and get immediately to BIS, they say "oh no no no, we just want an honest way to farm AD's/RP's in order to get to BIS in a 'reasonable' amount of time", but the term 'reasonable' is never defined. BIS should be achievable by legitimate farming in... what, 2 months? 1 month? 1 week? BIS is something that is supposed to take a while to achieve. YES it is a hook to get you to keep playing the game, I get that. I don't mind that.
And honestly I think a lot of complainers here really do just want an IWIN button, because this goes with the whole self-absorbed mentality that pervades this game. The 10k'ers are endlessly scapegoated for causing fails in Tiamat, when the MUCH BIGGER problem are the 20k'ers who give up early even when the raid is winnable because they are unwilling to sacrifice just 10-15 minutes of additional time on their part to even attempt to get a victory. People just want automatic victories while putting in just minimal effort. And it goes all the way back to the previous mods of this game. When T2 dungeons were much harder, before Mod 1, most groups glitched the bosses instead of doing them legit. When Mod 1 came out and MC was hard, most groups either used a map exploit or used the "interrupt" glitch, instead of doing it legit. When Mod 2 came out and VT was hard, most groups either again used exploits or just farmed 1/2 and bought fragments instead of earning the gear via drops. When Mod 3 came out and we got Open World PVP, most PVPers joined the same faction and proceeded to just roflstomp the newbs and the unprepared on the other faction, choosing not to challenge themselves by fighting other worthy opponents, just because they wanted an easymode route to completion of the PVP campaign.
People just want easymode over challenge. That is the real reason people complain about RP and complain about not having 7xLegendary artifacts within 1 week of getting to level 60.
You don't have a chance anyway, so why bother with it?
They just want their AD and that's just fine.
That is how sub games do it. However needing to pay to get bis before the new release is this games financial model.
If by "complete a set of content" you mean complete a campaign, then I agree with you.
But if by "complete a set of content" you mean get all of your refinable items to legendary, then I disagree - because these things do not change (by and large) so suddenly from one mod to the next. Look at artifacts. They were introduced in Module 2 and the basic idea of artifacts have remain unchanged ever since. They aren't items like gear, which are expected to be tossed away once the next mod hits as you chase the next and greatest set of gear. They are intended to stick with you for a long period of time.
I think that is why now the artifact gear at legendary seems OP. Because it is meant to last for many modules' worth of content and not be obsolesced by the next module.
I still have my original Lantern on my CW. Because it is still the best artifact for him for one of those three slots, even though it's a Mod 2 artifact.
Are you seriously suggesting that players ought to be able to upgrade EVERY new artifact to legendary EACH module?
Then please clarify, with precision, what you mean by "humane standard".
I see people write this sort of thing all the time. What I suspect they really mean is that they want an instant IWIN button so that they can get full BiS Legendary status within 1 week or something. Because people just want easymode.
The loot progression when this game was in open beta and first released is a good model. The dungeons took more skill. Players weren't overgeared. Players could actually run dungeons not merely to get their gear..but also gasp farm for diamonds. There were tons of legit f2p players who were able to acquire lots of wealth. Everyone was running dungeons because it wasn't a waste of time and was very profitable. Other than shirts and pants, the BIS gear came from dungeons and not the auction house (tier 2 gear, ancient weapons, ancient necklaces and jewelry).
First, your memory is severely clouded by nostalgia. The T2 dungeons and CN were exploited to no end. Almost no one did them legit, and that goes double for CN.
Second, you didn't answer my question. We now have refining in order to get BIS gear. You don't like that. Tough noogies. That die has already been cast. So, now that we have refining, how long should it take to get to BiS? Give a concrete number, otherwise you're just like all the others who are whining because there isn't an instant IWIN button.
Personally I believe that for all of the non-refinable gear, it should be realistically possible to get them all in one mod's time. And that is currently the case. For the refinable gear - which, let me remind you and everyone, is NOT MEANT to become obsolete in just one mod's time - I have no issue with it taking several mods in order to get it to legendary. For instance, for an artifact that you acquired in Mod 2, it is totally possible and reasonable with legit farming methods, and without botting, to have gotten that artifact to legendary by now. Is it possible and reasonable with legit farming methods to have gotten all 3 artifacts to legendary by now? No, I don't think so. But that's okay because those are newer artifacts.
Um no. There were almost no legit runs in beta. Beta was to paraphrase Star Wars a wretched hive of scum and villainy. It disgusted me so bad I left and only came back in mod2 when I heard of the legit channel and decided to give the game another shot. You have some serious rose tinted glasses when it comes to the past.
There were several dungeons such as Spellplague, Frozen Heart and Temple of the Spider that were easily done legit. Oh speaking of which, there are still several exploits on every new module and the old dungeons, no one just bothers to do them anymore.
Now then, your best response to the refinement system is: "tough noogies"? Are you running out of explanations that you have to use that term?
The fact of the matter is, the powercreep has pointed everyone to the auction house and zen store, not farming dungeons. BIS gear should drop in dungeons, none of this refining nonesense. If you want to gate the loot, gate it through difficult and challenging content, not the auction house and credit cards.
Whether or not the dungeons were ran legit or not, the system still produced a more viable loot progression system in which players can get and earn BIS gear as well as make a decent profit re-running the dungeons. Fact remains everything pointed to farming PVE content and not simply buying refinement stones on the auction house/zen store.