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PVP, a game of trolls?
matthiasthehun76
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,184 Arc User
Hi fellow players!
I love this game, it is really fantastic, but this side of the game makes me angry every time and i have to log off.
If i have to answer my own question, a big YES.
After a ton of lost matches where i had every time over 20 or 30 kills and still lost it all and many in a row i have to say, if our Devs don't do anything, then PVP becomes even more useless and no fun. Hell is it fun now? Not at all.
I am trying to ask for a simple 3 way GS bracket, only 3, nothing special and a big FAQ or Tutorial before the first PVP match. Let me go into details!
One bracket for those under 10k. I am not an elitist snob, simply put this is a line, where if a player comes in, who has 2,3k-7k, has no chance. He ruins the fun for others. Sadly many of these under geared players are simply said trolls, they only come for daily AD. Today i had the chance to witness- sadly- many of these "players". One guy came and went on the beginning, so we were only 4, match lost. Other 2 were from same guild and of course we got this way a huge premade team as opponents. I was the only one with a decent 15,5k GS, all other under 7k.
I mean a guy who comes in with 3k GS is no newbie, he is simply a troll, who wants his AD and cares a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about others fun. Ok, i know this is an MMO and trolls are everywhere, but filtering them in this case would be easy.
Now this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> over and over again. After the 10+ time my head was full and i had to shut down the game. Jesus, this shouldn't be so!
And guess what and i would like to see the Officials too, what they said: In this game, we can do it... I think no comment is needed for such persons, but my god, why do we have a ranking system?
Now according to it i am a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> PVP player now, but if i got such team mates in a row in 1 night, is it really me, who is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>? NO. So another nail in the coffin of PVP ranking. I have dropped now from 1st ranking down to bottom with "team mates", like this. According to the rule of numbers and current ranking, i never will be able to catch up again, the gap is simply too far.
Second gate for players in the middle range and the last bracket for players above 20K. Really simple to do, no big thing.
This would enable the mid range players to have fun and don't get steamrolled by high GS players, who are lazy, without any skill or on an easy headhunt.
And i have witnessed a new, sadly growing phenomenon in the game. The wallet warriors are humiliating us, lower GS players, not just in PVP, but we can say in the new Well of Dragons area too. But there it is another story, PVP fixing is easier job and our current field.
I have to say i have lost all my little respect for big PVP guilds too, it is so low, to come down and kill easy PUGs with under 10k, that if somebody of them finds this a joy, well all i can say, sad, very sad. Sure you can get nice and easy points on that useless ranking, but are you really a good player, i think NO.
So to let everyone decent enjoy the game, please separate the high GS from lower GS in PVP. A bracket for those above 20k and case solved.
Last, but not least, a Tutorial Quest should be introduced, when a player reaches lvl 10 and q for his first PVP match.
Many players come to a match without even the slightest knowledge what to do, they run around like chickens without a head or don't even know the basics and you can't teach them as another player, there is simply no time in a match and if there is- standing by campfire- most adults or even teens don't give a dime about a helping hand, first things you hear is cursing and all nasty stuff. It is very hard to teach a "mature" person and if he doesn't want to, you got no chance, where as a game tutorial can't be neglected.
Thank you for reading!
I love this game, it is really fantastic, but this side of the game makes me angry every time and i have to log off.
If i have to answer my own question, a big YES.
After a ton of lost matches where i had every time over 20 or 30 kills and still lost it all and many in a row i have to say, if our Devs don't do anything, then PVP becomes even more useless and no fun. Hell is it fun now? Not at all.
I am trying to ask for a simple 3 way GS bracket, only 3, nothing special and a big FAQ or Tutorial before the first PVP match. Let me go into details!
One bracket for those under 10k. I am not an elitist snob, simply put this is a line, where if a player comes in, who has 2,3k-7k, has no chance. He ruins the fun for others. Sadly many of these under geared players are simply said trolls, they only come for daily AD. Today i had the chance to witness- sadly- many of these "players". One guy came and went on the beginning, so we were only 4, match lost. Other 2 were from same guild and of course we got this way a huge premade team as opponents. I was the only one with a decent 15,5k GS, all other under 7k.
I mean a guy who comes in with 3k GS is no newbie, he is simply a troll, who wants his AD and cares a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> about others fun. Ok, i know this is an MMO and trolls are everywhere, but filtering them in this case would be easy.
Now this <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> over and over again. After the 10+ time my head was full and i had to shut down the game. Jesus, this shouldn't be so!
And guess what and i would like to see the Officials too, what they said: In this game, we can do it... I think no comment is needed for such persons, but my god, why do we have a ranking system?
Now according to it i am a <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> PVP player now, but if i got such team mates in a row in 1 night, is it really me, who is <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>? NO. So another nail in the coffin of PVP ranking. I have dropped now from 1st ranking down to bottom with "team mates", like this. According to the rule of numbers and current ranking, i never will be able to catch up again, the gap is simply too far.
Second gate for players in the middle range and the last bracket for players above 20K. Really simple to do, no big thing.
This would enable the mid range players to have fun and don't get steamrolled by high GS players, who are lazy, without any skill or on an easy headhunt.
And i have witnessed a new, sadly growing phenomenon in the game. The wallet warriors are humiliating us, lower GS players, not just in PVP, but we can say in the new Well of Dragons area too. But there it is another story, PVP fixing is easier job and our current field.
I have to say i have lost all my little respect for big PVP guilds too, it is so low, to come down and kill easy PUGs with under 10k, that if somebody of them finds this a joy, well all i can say, sad, very sad. Sure you can get nice and easy points on that useless ranking, but are you really a good player, i think NO.
So to let everyone decent enjoy the game, please separate the high GS from lower GS in PVP. A bracket for those above 20k and case solved.
Last, but not least, a Tutorial Quest should be introduced, when a player reaches lvl 10 and q for his first PVP match.
Many players come to a match without even the slightest knowledge what to do, they run around like chickens without a head or don't even know the basics and you can't teach them as another player, there is simply no time in a match and if there is- standing by campfire- most adults or even teens don't give a dime about a helping hand, first things you hear is cursing and all nasty stuff. It is very hard to teach a "mature" person and if he doesn't want to, you got no chance, where as a game tutorial can't be neglected.
Thank you for reading!
The real honest man is honest from conviction of what is right, not from policy.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Post edited by matthiasthehun76 on
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Comments
So.. jump ahead to now. My gear is better (though far from great), I have a little more experience and I've continued to refine a strategy, but I still have a long way to go and a lot to learn. I've come close to throwing my keyboard out the window several times, but I think I've finally found a way to get something positive out of it that I'll share - maybe it'll help someone else.
Don't measure your success by the leader board or by the number of n00bs you pwn in a match; instead, make your goal all about getting better. Turn off /zone, do your best to support your group in whatever way your class can, but find those little kernels of success in every fight and hone your skills little by little every chance you get.
Hey - it's a strange system, and like pvp everywhere, there's no shortage of experts telling you that you're doing it wrong. Nod, smile, sift thru the QQing to see if there's any actual value hidden there... and then get back to getting better every time you go out.
Simple, dopey advice... hope it helps, even a little. To every group I've pissed off while I was learning... sorry again! :rolleyes:
How many kills you personally get is only vaguely related to winning. I one time had a game where my team had zero kills and each of us had died 20-50 times, and yet the other team was unable to prevent themselves from losing.
Nothing is quite as black and white as you might think.. :rolleyes:
If consistency is what you like then run a gwf, you'll have 20-30 deaths and you'll lose it all, it will make sense.
I read in the forum a lot about "a tactic" the devs follow like: every mod one class dominates, all players buy/invest i this class, tryiing to be leaderboard-king.
leaderboard is not very intersting for me, its something for people with a kind of obsessive-neurosis "beeing the best" " never fail", "deleting my char if it doesn´t work"- kind of ill
i play PVP for fun, but in these days its hard to get, especially playing for example a warlock
the only conclusion in this case can be: the devs do not invest further more in PVP because PVE is their only interst (>90% of players)
in this very small period i took part in the game its obvious that the intention is more and more to making this game pay to win (cause of melting player base?)
if u go in the AH there is nothing u could earn from, epics are cheap, refinig is bop, if u want to get artifacts to legendary state u must pay a lot--!> the company needs money?
its the begin of the end of an mmorpg imo
Actually, no need to farm PVE anymore, you can get a full T2 set in the AH for 70K (2-3 days of doing the lord+rhix daily).
and people are still doing the T2/T2.5, not as they used to, but still doing them.
We are always recruiting mature, family-friendly, helpful and courteous people www.guildmedieval.com
Rather than try to fix it somehow I wish they would just kill it entirely so they'd stop breaking things in PvE to appease the PvP players.
The most important thing in life is to be yourself. Unless you can be Batman. Always be Batman.
Hence it's so few players that pvp is functionally dead and gone already. Hence that minority is not keeping anything afloat but in fact making things worse by clinging onto the rotting corpse of the games pvp mode.
There's enough people for like 5 brackets for lower levels. Can we really not fit another one or two? I also remember when the queue system took like 30mins for full party ctas. Lets just say that my confidence that they did the queue system right isn't high. Especially when there could be 2 random DCs on one team and none on another. The game is completely full of flaws after all. Pretty much everything they release is broken in some way. I honestly wouldn't be surprised that the original queue was no different.
So I'd rather see it setup so that premades go vs premades and pugs vs pugs. Sure u can get the crazy high GS person here and there that troll some pugs, but I just don't see how a quality premade can have fun in a pvp match vs random noobs. Some die once and sit at fire, some just keep running out, die come back. How can it be fun to not just faceroll but literally end up in non stop 5v1 rofltomps? That's what baffles me the most. If I were in a serious pvp group and I Qd up, I want a quality opponent and a good fight, that's fun. ROFLSTOMpin some noobs, not even mildly entertaining. I'd bet both puggers and premades would have a lot more fun if it were setup that way, Q times might go up, but there's enough to do in game to kill time while u wait for the pop. so IDK what the rush is to just get in for the sake of getting in if it's not going to be a quality / fun experience.
You log in to have fun right? If not why then?
Really? You can get 20k GS farming PVE within a reasonable amount of time? Now here is where people will stretch reasonable to farming PVE for months everyday barely getting squat
Your guild is growing? From 2-4 members?
Anyway, it isn't easy to gear up F2P anymore, unless you want to gear up to 13k GS, do some casual dungeons and probably quit the game shortly. Right now, the big money items and powercreep are artifacts that have to be refined. Ask anyone with actual legendary gear where they got it and they will say the auction house. Gone are the days where you actually farm Castle Never to get AD. Nowadays, the endgame players either buy AD, buy zen, bot, merch on the auction house or have leadership systems set up. So you have been playing for 2 years and still haven't been maxed out? That just tells the story right there (although you should be maxed out since you played in open beta, but that's a skill/knowledgebase tangent discussion for a whole separate thread).
That should send up warning flags that the system needs work.. why arent people interested in playing against each other? Maybe they dont feel they have a snowballs chance of winning?
Avariel Merilwen: Burn baby, MoF/Rene
Aejun The Silver: Devoted to Healing, DevOP/Justice
Mina Rosepetal: Super Natural, Pathfinder/Melee
Frost: Benchwarmer, Soulbinder/Fury
If that was during the time warlocks were introduced, I remember that but I thought it was because of how many people were trying to pvp as groups of warlocks. If that's the real case, had nothing to do with gear and I find it odd they would just scrap it completely when they never do that....or are you mentioned prior to that?
They should just work with it instead of scrap. I've noticed with Mod 5 it's worse.
I think you misunderstood the post - the 30 mins que was not because the amount of people was lacking - it was because the system were too tight in choosing the opponents. The system probably had tons of people waiting and none playing because, the criteria on which the grouping was done was not met by the people in the waiting lobby - for example the criteria is that people have to be in different classes and have close gear score - so this may occur - there could be people of all classes waiting and of mixed gear scores but as there are not 10 people that met the criteria so the game would not start.
No this was pre-mod 3.
1 - Any leaving count towards loss.
a)You were kicked - you were voted out by majority - you must have misbehaved
b)You left on your own accord - you don't deserve victory even if the rest of the players made it.
c)Technical difficulties - should not occur to often/you should not start another game before resolving them.
d)Kicking can not be done by the wining side to prevent intentional rank dropping, by kicking right before the victory.
2 - In order to make 1 valid the que must be solo que.
Premades has too much weight over the vote as they always stand together.
3-Solo and premade 5 que should be separated not eradicated.
a)Game emphasis on teamwork.
b)Premades have unfair advantage over solo players.
c)Increases the diversity of the game
4-matchups should be determined by rank
a)Players should fight people of the similar skill despise the difference in gs - the difference in gs would simply distribute accordingly among the ranks with the highest gs at the top and lowest at the bottom. With exception of players that have skill beyond gear.
b)ranks should be determined by both win ratio and games played.
(for example rank=win_ratio*exp(-C/games_played) where constant C determines how fast the games played validate your win ratio, c=10 would make it that in 100 games you get the rank of ~win_ratio/1.1, c=100 would account for the same result in 1000 games, such formula has positive derivatives for all win rates and all positive constants C so wins would always increase your rank, and loses has negative - so it would decrease it)
c)Gear score should not be a factor in determining of matchups because it can be manipulated too easily. And this can not be removed without removing dynamics of the game.
5-Opposite teams should consist of player that averagely should be able to compete with each other.
People should be assigned a number from -5 to 0 0 5 by ranks( -4,-3...0,0,1...4 ), and teams should be constructed so that the average is 0 on both sides, easiest opposites on the same same, with exception of 0's.
6-there should be an option for team members to mark inactive members, that go afk so that their performance would be traced for 1-2 mins and in case of less minimal activity(leaving the spawn camp, moving, etc) they would be punished by inducing temporary ban on que.
a) Should reduce the amount of trolls further
b) Should not require expensive constant tracking using players as warning system.
c) Would block repeated occurrences of this behavior.
7- Unranked que should remain.
a)People wants to check their strength vs random strangers.
b)People could go in any premade group they want.
c)Ground for experimentation and testing.
There are probably many more ways to improve the system but i dont have the time to think of them all.
A normal system would at least put one 7k guy in one team, and one in the other. And do the same with legendary-filled guys.
Separated premade/half PM queues and rough GS brackets would help.
You wait more? Fine. Better than joining a greatly unbalanced match and sit 10 minutes in spawn, don't you think. Plus while waiting you can still at least do some pve.
Just a few examples of my PVP day- ouch!:(
Why we need an in game Mod (this was an idea we talked about a lot here).
I had a troll, who was harassing my DC woman char in PVP, by trying to use his free winter wolf mount to make sexual interaction with her, simply disgusting, i don't find this kind of mentality mature and if i have kids by my side i better send them away, perv people, they should be removed on the spot, after all, this should be DnD.
Secondly, i had two french man in my team, who were, so- finding polite word- not bright up there, that they were trying to kill each other, it took them time to realize, they were on the same team and they can't kill each other. Jesus help me!
Thirdly, since today Domination was daily from Lord Neverember, trolls were just flying so there. I think we all have seen this ( picture bellow).
I think we need some sort of help from Officals, we the community can't solve these issues alone and simply ignoring these people doesn't mean we won't meet them again, if it were so, no problem.
Ok, as we all can see a typical troll with 5k GS in end game PVP and just look at her , now to top things, she came into game with a guildie and so we got a 20K premade team, thx again, what the heck shall we do there and this over and over again...
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
Thx not bad idea by all means, but i have my own guild and it would be a little bit weird, if the GM would leave his guild for another one.
And i think this shouldn't be the case, we should see some improvements.
New player, well this is really polite of you, i call them trolls, joining end game PVP, half way naked and mostly in green and no enchants is trolling.
I have hidden the players name, but it indicates, that he or she knows, what he or she is doing, no beginner, rather a troll.
Robert E. Lee
I only believe in statistics that I doctored myself.
Winston Churchill
The human race is a herd. Here we are, unique, eternal aspects of consciousness with an infinity of potential, and we have allowed ourselves to become an unthinking, unquestioning blob of conformity and uniformity. A herd. Once we concede to the herd mentality, we can be controlled and directed by a tiny few. And we are.
David Icke
so the more pvp u play the harder opponets you face. i think this would revitalize pvp and TONS of more ppl would play b/c pvp matches are more balanced, and become an actual battle/ challenge rather than a 20k gs mowing down 10-15ks resulting in sitting in the campfire for the rest of the match.
they could add tournaments with a system like this as well, to become the dominion champion of ALL or premade pro team tournaments for the higher end geared and pvp guilds.
another thing that should be added into pvp that is very mcuh needed is a way to 1v1 challenge a player, this would be very fun to do, without joining a 5v5 and have 8 of the rest stand by and watch, this is too tedious.
Half way naked is actually just some players' version of "sexy character in effective distraction". It's not a troll per say, but it's not practical in RL either.
Three words - chainmail thong wedgie
Also, you don't need super high GS or gear on any class if you have practiced skills in PvP/ PvE.
"Why is it dragons only use ketchup? I'd like a little wasabi please. Us silvers like a variety of condiments."
"Don't call them foolish mortals. One, they don't learn from it. Two, It just ticks them off." - An Ancient Red Dragon
Gear up to 13-14k? Yup.
Now about farming PVP and eventually gearing up to get closer to BIS status? Not so much. And the problem is, players aren't getting it through dungeons, they have to go through the auction house and zen store. PVE is not farmable.
My CW is just shy of 19k, and it has taken about 7 months to accomplish this. The only RL money I put into him is a pack which gave me an account-wide mount. I have spent zero RL money otherwise on him. I have not even bought RP off of the AH.
Yes PVE is farmable if you are smart in what you are doing. My CW is proof of this. He would be ready for any but the highest level of PVP matches with one respec token (already have the BI gear), if I so chose, but I choose not to.
What has changed is that there is no longer one clear direction for the PVE farmer to go, i.e., "go to Castle Never". Nowadays instead, there are a lot of little options for earning small to medium amounts of AD.