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GWF PvP Tips! :)

icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
edited December 2014 in The Militia Barracks
Hi Everyone,

It seems GWF's class forum has been very quiet lately, my guess is thats people think GWF has been nerfed too hard and are sorta abandoning' this class? Today I would like to shed some light and share a few GWF PvP tactics that might help you realize you are actually stronger than you think! I would not go into detail on builds and gears as there are plenty of guides available online already, instead of I would show you how to move/trick your opponent to give yourself the upper hand in fight!

Ability score = Full Con+Dex or if you have very high end gears, you could go with STR/DEX. (40k+HP is ideal)

GEAR = Get as much HP and Power as you can, 25+% cri, the rest are optional. (Black Ice is really good if you can get this set. Make sure you have at least 18%+ PvP Tenancity)

Enchantment = Soulforge + Vorpal, radiant for all other slots.

Build = Intimidation. Not the highest damage nor the best in 1 vs 1 but the range/radius really help especially if you have bad latency like me.
*I am from Sydney and live far away from closest exchange, only getting 300kb/sec download speed...

This guide is not going to show you how to build your GWF, but rather how to utilise your GWF to maximize the performance!

BASIC SKILLS
- Cancel your movements with sprint, cancel your battlefury or other encounters's finishing animation with sprint.

- While doing Sure Strike, always cancel with sprint after 2~3 attacks as 4th attack takes too long to land, when you sprint, try to always sprint to the side or back of the enemy.

- Most of your opponents would use Control power when they first see you, your sprint actually help you reduce the damage taken by a great deal plus it makes you IMMNUE to those attacks.

- Learn to predict your opponent's movement and land your biggest hits on the right time. Now when is the right time? 95%+ of the time your CAGI/DS would hit if you use it right after they Dodge.

- CAGI is easy to hit but DS has a shorter range, the best way to ensure it hits is to stand slightly behind your opponent, if they Dodge, you DS right after that, that usually land the hits for me.

VERY IMPORTANT: Many people dont realize SPRINT is one of GWFs' best weapon, not just how fast you move, but how you are IMMNUE to control attacks and DEFLECT a great deal of opponent's biggest hits, learn to use sprint well! (This is another reason why I recommend Battle Fury, not only it buffs your biggest hits, it also gives you a lot more room to immnue/deflect opponent's attacks, greatly increase your survability!)



Fighting other classes (in Alphabetic order)

Control Wizard

- When you first see a CW, they tend to always use the Grasp skill (the one that hangs you in midair), try to sprint for 1~2 second longer until you see their hands grow in white (meaning they have casted the skill and you have immnued that attack), otherwise stop to attack a hit or two and keep sprinting inbetween, this help you to effectively deflect/immnue some of their control/biggest encounters.

- When they start to dodge, try to sprint to the 10'clock direction of them and wait for them to dodge, if you cast CAGI/DS right when they dodge, it hits most of the time.

- Try to always sprint to the back or side of them, some of their skills cannot be casted unless they have the pointer on you, and that non-stop sprinting around would slow down their attack a little as they have to keep targeting you.


Devoted Cleric
- Well-played Clerics takes too long to kill. (almost impossible to kill alone unless their GS is significantly lower than yours and you have an offensive build), so I suggest one of the 4 things

1. Build up your daily and combo him all at once, make sure their astral shield is not up when you start the combo and fingers crossed you can one combo the DC to death. Debuff him with Mark, empower yourself with Battle Fury before u start the combo (Daily power + DS + CAGI)

2. Find a teammate with control power or very high DPS to take him down quickily (CW, TR)

3. If you can't take him down quickily and he always stay with his team, try to get two other caps. You dont have to kill him, just take the cap and kill his friends that are not with him.

4. If he likes to travel alone, just get on to the cap and have 1 person play with him. You might not be able to kill him, but he would have a hard time killing you too, just drag the score for WIN!

*Generally speaking, in organized PvP good healers normally floats around in the midfield and just run to point 1 or 3 to give their dying teammate a good heal then back to middle to keep the cap, this gets more complex and I wont go into detail.


Guardian Fighter

1. Rule 1 fighting a GF, ALWAYS sprint to the back to do your attacks. Make sure you always sprint around to his back/side so he has trouble deciding which direction to raise the shield. Your hits is only effective if you land it from behind him.

2. Predict when the GF is going to use the charge attack to knock you on the floor (whatever its called), use your SPRINT when you know the attack is about to come and Dont Get Knock Down!

3. For GF that takes a long time to kill, make good use of your Battle banner.


Great Weapon Warrior

GWF generally categorize into two types, destoyer type or intimidation type (haven't seen much Instigator type, can't comment on that).

However generally destoyer type would use attacks like, Knockdown, Frontline, Indo Strike and then its Intimidation CAGI and DS.

1. Start with sprint to see which attack they use, if they use Frontline, you would be immnue to it and can almost immediately keep a mid distance to cast your CAGI/DS, once that's done just sprint close to them, do 1~2 attacks, cancel it with sprint and repeat. Feel free to kite them a little before your CAGI/DS comes back, cus that would be about the time their Frontline attacks finishes cooldown, you can again get ready to immnue/deflect the attack again.

2. Make sure u conserve your biggest hit when they dont have unstoppable activated to maximize your damage. Feel free to run around to kite, you have Battlefury and can run a lot longer, this helps you to take control of the fight in most of the cases.


Hunter Ranger (melee type)

This is one class I have trouble with, I could beat the average ones, but havn't won a duel against the stronger ones. (like Cleric in Mid!) Howver, there are two tricks I have to share which I hope would help fighting them better!

1. Piercing Strike and Bull Charge are their two most deadly attacks (if I remember the name correctly...), they knock you down, deals decent damage and heals themselve good! The basic rule is to use SPRINT to reduce the damage you take and not get knock down on the floor, once they have casted that, its your turn to attack.

2. Make good use of structures, LoS (line out of sight). After you land your big hits, run around to hide yourself to recover from the cooldown. They dont heal up that quickily if they dont get more leech from you. So after your cooldown comes back, run to them and sprint through their Piercing Strike/Bull Charge again then finish them with another round of CAGI/DS, best comboed with your daily.

Note: HR is significantly easier to die if they dont consistently leech from you or deflect your attacks.


Sourge Warlock

1. Nothing much to say about SW, just sprint next to them and whack them all the time, use your biggest attacks/combos and they usually are pretty helpless. (They have recently been voted the weakest class in PvP, and I reckon that's pretty accurate in most of the cases...)


Trickster Rogue (Tips to find out where the Perm Rogues are!)

Fighting a TR is VERY interesting, the biggest thing you have to learn is how they MOVE. More than 70% of the time, I can successfully determine where a TR is heading or which direction they are, I have been accused using Target Lock option because I find/follow some of them so well... (and no, I dont even know where that option is...)

1. If you have played a Rogue, you would know how rogues usually moves. In short, they start attacking you in mid range, when you look for them, they would jump OVER you (so they show up in a blink and gone), however if you turn yourself immediately and sprint to the direction with more open area but still with a pillar/structure to hide, thats usually where they are heading)

Rogues does not normally run to death corner.

When they are stealthed, look at the damage you are taking, if its just damage, then they are 180 degree infront of you, if the damage has a lightning symbol that indicates they are at the side/rear of you, this gives you a good indication where to look for them.

If they are on a cap, the flag of the cap shows a conflict symbol, you know they are somewhere in that ring, if the conflict symbol disappear soon after you step in, you know they have ran to the opposite direction or the side of you.

When they are in that shadowy form with super high dodge, make sure you alawys sprint to the side to keep attacking them, its never beneficial exchanging blows face to face with them, sprint helps reduce the damage you take and your attack just wont stop too!

Learn to TIME the duration of their shadowy form, they would normally Roll and run away just right after their shadowy power goes off. Get Ready To Follow Them and Stick your weapon on them, this is also the best time to land your biggest hits. *Note that do NOT use your CAGI/DS too early, wait for them to ROLL then cast it, they normally get hit right after they rolled.


There are probably more tips I can give, but its 5:45PM Sydney time and I wanna go home already, so I would just write this much for now, you guys will probably pick up the rest after you obtain more fighting experience anyway.

PS: If you can understand what I mean pls dont pick me on the words/grammar. English isn't my first language and I admit I need more improvement on that part, however if there is anything that is unclear, please feel free to leave your concerns below :)


icydrake
@icyphish

Very unbiased truth of of my PvP history, I generally play in pug and will not act like I am super good or whatsoever, I win, and I lose, but having the right build/tactic help increase my kill/survive ratio decently. :)
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Post edited by Unknown User on
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Comments

  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    accidentally replied to my own thread... I just wanted to add the PvP history... :\
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    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • emilemoemilemo Member Posts: 1,718 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Good read, liked it
    Row, row, row your boat, Gently down the stream.
    Merrily, merrily, merrily, merrily, Life is but a dream.
  • rashylewizzrashylewizz Member Posts: 4,265 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    Very good tips especially on what to do when fighting specific classes
  • ortzhyortzhy Member Posts: 1,103 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    tips are good i agree, but they only work for entry level opponents! As i;ve said in other threads, target lock and perma dodge kinda makes a GWF useless without a CC from another source so imo there is no 1v1 GWF atm :(
  • nazghul22nazghul22 Member Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Lost cause.
    Cf first page of russian leaderboard.
    Nice try in a way, but hey it's all about educated guesses ("Have you seen this TR?"), exploits (domi), and features that never belonged to the class (sprint). And if you're a said practical player who could not care less about lore, DnD and all and condider only the kill/death ratio, then do as russians do, reroll a TR.
    ToD = ..........
    Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
  • asterotgasterotg Member Posts: 1,742 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I got a question, why do you prefer soulf. over perf. barkshield. I would get it with the 3/3 Lathander bonus, but atm, I like the shielding effect for this perma stealth TRs, trying to onehit me from stealth.

    I play a 21k+ sent. GWF, mostly PuG, bc. most of my PvP oriented friends left. I seldom die in 1v1 situations and soulf. does nothing for me, if it is just 2 sec. more of 3v1 zerg.
    Chars: CW, DC, GF, GWF, HR and TR.
  • tbhdk2tbhdk2 Member Posts: 78
    edited December 2014
    Well I still play GWF in pvp but only because I have to earn my second pvp artifact.

    However im not really making any progress since every game is full of trs and im not sentinel/iron vanguard so really dont have the tools to fight TR.

    They basically dodge everything - once you get in range and make one hit they dodge - and run away - you stun them - they break free - run away again - they run faster than you - and once they can go stealth and cast smokebomb again they come back for another run.

    And really being destroyer is totally useless because they arent there for you to hit them so you can build up stacks. Destroyer does <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> dmg with the first 4-6 hits.

    My GWF is getting beaten by TRs with 4-5 less gs and I simply cant think of anything to do. I tried every skill i can think of - If i dont use battle fury I got no chance at all of catching them, if i only use one stun skill they break free or dodge. If I sacrifice IBS to run them up and stun them I probably cant kill them with sure strike alone. Sacrificing IBS is about the only thing i havent tried. Anyway our stun skills have a pathetic duration.

    I really dont have any problems with any other class - unless they are high gs and pack a true punch. But that is fair enough. Being helpless vs TRs and getting beaten by much lower gs that dont use skills but dodge, run and smokebomb their way through the game isnt.
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    ortzhy wrote: »
    tips are good i agree, but they only work for entry level opponents! As i;ve said in other threads, target lock and perma dodge kinda makes a GWF useless without a CC from another source so imo there is no 1v1 GWF atm :(

    Agreed, this is a basic --> intermidiate guide to give ppl an idea about how to handle their opponent in general. High level fights gets a lot more complicated including your team's classes, other team's classes, how to synergy your teammate's power to combo with your attacks, who to stand at where and do what, how to coordinate, but no, we are not going into the pages long details, however knowing the basics will definitely help giving you an upper hand versusing average players, and once you build up more experience it could also eventually bring you into top tier players list :)
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    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    emilemo wrote: »
    Good read, liked it

    Thanks, appreciate your feedback! :)
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    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Very good tips especially on what to do when fighting specific classes

    Thanks, I hope it helps! :)
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    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    nazghul22 wrote: »
    Lost cause.
    Cf first page of russian leaderboard.
    Nice try in a way, but hey it's all about educated guesses ("Have you seen this TR?"), exploits (domi), and features that never belonged to the class (sprint). And if you're a said practical player who could not care less about lore, DnD and all and condider only the kill/death ratio, then do as russians do, reroll a TR.


    We are not talking about the elitist nor hack/exploits. We are talking about playing legitly and fights in general. This is a basic -> intermidiate guide to help some players understand how to utilise their skills better, nobody would jump straight to the top tier without mastering the basics. :)
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    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    asterotg wrote: »
    I got a question, why do you prefer soulf. over perf. barkshield. I would get it with the 3/3 Lathander bonus, but atm, I like the shielding effect for this perma stealth TRs, trying to onehit me from stealth.

    I play a 21k+ sent. GWF, mostly PuG, bc. most of my PvP oriented friends left. I seldom die in 1v1 situations and soulf. does nothing for me, if it is just 2 sec. more of 3v1 zerg.

    If you have Perf Barkshield, thats probably a better choice, unfortunately I couldn't afford one and is sticking with Soulforge as IMO its the next best choice, easily to obtain for very low cost. :)

    If you like PvP, I suggest joining one of the active PvP guilds, you could find a lot of strong partners there ;)
    (I have been pugging mostly, but occassionally I run with some strong PvP guilds such as Black Cloak, Black Turtle, Purple Dragon, Absolute, and its very comfy knowing your teammates that are backing you up not only is strong/powerful but also know what they are doing! :))
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    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    tbhdk2 wrote: »
    Well I still play GWF in pvp but only because I have to earn my second pvp artifact.

    However im not really making any progress since every game is full of trs and im not sentinel/iron vanguard so really dont have the tools to fight TR.

    They basically dodge everything - once you get in range and make one hit they dodge - and run away - you stun them - they break free - run away again - they run faster than you - and once they can go stealth and cast smokebomb again they come back for another run.

    And really being destroyer is totally useless because they arent there for you to hit them so you can build up stacks. Destroyer does <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> dmg with the first 4-6 hits.

    My GWF is getting beaten by TRs with 4-5 less gs and I simply cant think of anything to do. I tried every skill i can think of - If i dont use battle fury I got no chance at all of catching them, if i only use one stun skill they break free or dodge. If I sacrifice IBS to run them up and stun them I probably cant kill them with sure strike alone. Sacrificing IBS is about the only thing i havent tried. Anyway our stun skills have a pathetic duration.

    I really dont have any problems with any other class - unless they are high gs and pack a true punch. But that is fair enough. Being helpless vs TRs and getting beaten by much lower gs that dont use skills but dodge, run and smokebomb their way through the game isnt.

    At the current state of PvP, I think destoyers is very disadvantaged against good TR for 2 reasons.

    1. You dont get to touch them much, therefore less chance to build up Destoyer's Purpose to maximize your DPS power
    2. Less tanky, dies easier (plus TR are hitting hard right now....)
    3. Destoyer's attacks are generally single target, not radius-based, aiming them would be a problem.

    FTL/Knockdown is GWF's best control power, unfortunately stun duration is currently being affected by Deflect rate, and with TR/HR having very high deflect rate in general, our stun duration on them is generally less than 0.5 second, making the control power very worthless.

    My suggestion is to try the intimidation build, not very original, but will likely give you a lot better chance versusing them, not only you will survive better, you can simply cast the skills when you know they are 'around you', you dont have to aim, and will have an easier time taking them down. ;)
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    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • nezraalnezraal Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    The guide is for a low level GS matchup provided the match making randomly generated a viable match up for a change (how often does this happen?). Once you start pushing in top 10 pages in premades like I did, you will realize why I quit playing Neverwinter PvP. In 20k+ GS here is why GWF is NOT viable.

    All of the characters here are premade on 20-21k GS
    (I am sorry I have no interest in pug games where I can pull 40+ kills)

    1v1 DC, even 2 GWF cannot take them out.
    1v1 TR, 35k damage on 46% DR Sentinel in one shot! Plus perma stealth
    1v1 HR, is a stronger off tank with hp leech, the difference of hp is close to 55% by the time you die
    1v1 CW, as long as CW maintains its distance you will be controlled before sprinting (slow animation) and anything else will kill you
    1v1 SW, aha! the only match up where GWF can win

    In all, defense offense combined there is 50-60% difference vs any class in almost any match up except for SW.

    The mechanics fall short because ARP is killing DR, and GWF is a close range attacker. Furthermore the encounters have high animation time which can be dodged by a skilled player. This is the reality at the highest level. The ONLY chat craft strategy is to have a paper thin GWF with high power 10-11k , perfect vorp, 30% c.rate and carry a DC with you to heal you or a GF that shares KV. In all the mechanics are in a poor state and needs re-work which is why I quit.

    I know another 5 GWF in the top pages who have either quit or gone inactive.
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    nezraal wrote: »
    The guide is for a low level GS matchup provided the match making randomly generated a viable match up for a change (how often does this happen?). Once you start pushing in top 10 pages in premades like I did, you will realize why I quit playing Neverwinter PvP. In 20k+ GS here is why GWF is NOT viable.

    All of the characters here are premade on 20-21k GS
    (I am sorry I have no interest in pug games where I can pull 40+ kills)

    1v1 DC, even 2 GWF cannot take them out.
    1v1 TR, 35k damage on 46% DR Sentinel in one shot! Plus perma stealth
    1v1 HR, is a stronger off tank with hp leech, the difference of hp is close to 55% by the time you die
    1v1 CW, as long as CW maintains its distance you will be controlled before sprinting (slow animation) and anything else will kill you
    1v1 SW, aha! the only match up where GWF can win

    In all, defense offense combined there is 50-60% difference vs any class in almost any match up except for SW.

    The mechanics fall short because ARP is killing DR, and GWF is a close range attacker. Furthermore the encounters have high animation time which can be dodged by a skilled player. This is the reality at the highest level. The ONLY chat craft strategy is to have a paper thin GWF with high power 10-11k , perfect vorp, 30% c.rate and carry a DC with you to heal you or a GF that shares KV. In all the mechanics are in a poor state and needs re-work which is why I quit.

    I know another 5 GWF in the top pages who have either quit or gone inactive.

    I agree with you to some extend, especially on the high GS/Premade fights, its leaning more towards the current OPness of some specific classes, and they can be very different from the lower GS fights. However in premade fights its more towards how you assign your group members and how to coordinate with your partner to combo someone to death quickily, or healer standby in a position that can easily provide healing to all members in the field. As such I would either position myself to a cap with a opponent that does not have a significant advantage over me (eg. TR/HR), but if its CW/GF/GWF/SW/DC, I can still give them a good beat, not to mention if its going to be 2 players or more protecting a cap, then ideally you want your partner to have a counter part to their assigned member that keeps going to the specific cap. Alternatively, I could be a meat tank with heavy attacks just whacking the guys in the middle field and have my healer heal me to hard-cap the cap. (then move on)

    I am a 24.6k GS GWF in a high-end PvP guild and run with premades a few games a week so I do know what you are talking about. :)

    However, majority of the players are more in the mid-low range pvp bracket (10~16ks), hence I hope the above tips can give them some idea about how to counter their opponents, it will be more beneficial than not knowing what to do at all :)

    PS: I read about your build before but I didn't quite like it, I could go with 50K HP and survive like a beast, but in high end team pvp that makes it hard to kill your opponents which is needed before their healers give them a heal... (and then its just a battle of nobody kills who when healers' around), instead I lowered my HP to 42~43K range, and build up 10k power with high cri, which seem to perform better in team pvp, obviously the lower HP means if you are soloing without a healer then you could go down quickier, however if you are premade pvper, I recommend you to give this build a try :)
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  • nezraalnezraal Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Give it a try ? With all due respect, here is what is going on

    50% DR, TR "ONE" Shots me 42k HP! I am not even going to talk about how OP DC is (honestly they are more OP than TR) and HR is as strong as it used to be in Mod4. You can't land one attack on a CW all goes to dodge, dodge dodge. I am not talking about pugs. Here is an image as evidence: "1" hit , 42k HP, 50% DR. How many GWF carries 50% DR?

    1_zpsfd3f0eaa.jpg

    This too by perma stealth.

    By the way, I have an alter set of 2 Corrupted / 2 Purified and Perfect Vorpal, where I push my crit rate to 29%.. I am making a Sigil of Devoted soon and need 2 more Lum Favor to upgrade my off hand. So tell me, as a 24.5 k GWF how do you handle your competitions.
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I know what you mean, thats why I quoted high GS fight is "leaning more towards the current OPness of some specific classes". My guild has a few 6~7 legendary TRs, and they are all capable of one shotting GWFs 35~45K HP in a single Shocking Excution. It doesn't matter how much your DR is, that attack from what I have heard ignores DR, so 30% or 50%DR, it makes no difference, plus GWF doesn't have the ability to dodge, we practically have to eat the attack in full. (I normally use Sprint when they use that attack to increase our deflect and reduce the dmg, it doesn't normally one shot me, but with like 10~15%HP left it really make not much difference...)

    There is not much we can do about it until Cryptic fixes it I suppose. The only two things I can possibly think of to encounter that is,

    1. Have a DC partner that keeps you alive a bit better, if you survive that attack, you could have a good come back.. TR is OP, but a good DC is even more OP imo. :)

    2. With action point so easily topped up now, I was thinking about expirimenting with Swords Man path, the 5 second immunity after a daily casted could mean we get 5 second immunity every 30 seconds, might make a different, but I am not sure, would have to look into that further...

    As to HR, they are still OP, but imo not as OP as they used to be, and most definitely does not posses as much threat to us compare to the current state of TR/DC, yes they are still tough to fight with, but they could be torned down fast if you have a heavy attack partner with control skill :)
    nezraal wrote: »
    Give it a try ? With all due respect, here is what is going on

    50% DR, TR "ONE" Shots me 42k HP! I am not even going to talk about how OP DC is (honestly they are more OP than TR) and HR is as strong as it used to be in Mod4. You can't land one attack on a CW all goes to dodge, dodge dodge. I am not talking about pugs. Here is an image as evidence: "1" hit , 42k HP, 50% DR. How many GWF carries 50% DR?

    1_zpsfd3f0eaa.jpg

    This too by perma stealth.

    By the way, I have an alter set of 2 Corrupted / 2 Purified and Perfect Vorpal, where I push my crit rate to 29%.. I am making a Sigil of Devoted soon and need 2 more Lum Favor to upgrade my off hand. So tell me, as a 24.5 k GWF how do you handle your competitions.
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    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Oh btw, as to CW, try to time your attack right after they Dodge, you can usually hit them, I haven't ran into much trouble with CW lately compare to they were back in mod 4. Also if you use battlefury before you cast your CAGI, its easily 20~25k in a single shot, run next to them and wait for them to dodge again, then cast your Daring Shout, the cast is slow and the range is shorter, so its best to stand right next to them, as soon as they dodge, you cast it, the radius will still be within a dodge's distance, so its another hit. Most of the CWs would die in 2 shots, as to the higher end ones, you might need to circle them around until your next come and get it comes back, 2 rotations or plus a daily usually finishes them off :)
    nezraal wrote: »
    Give it a try ? With all due respect, here is what is going on

    50% DR, TR "ONE" Shots me 42k HP! I am not even going to talk about how OP DC is (honestly they are more OP than TR) and HR is as strong as it used to be in Mod4. You can't land one attack on a CW all goes to dodge, dodge dodge. I am not talking about pugs. Here is an image as evidence: "1" hit , 42k HP, 50% DR. How many GWF carries 50% DR?

    1_zpsfd3f0eaa.jpg

    This too by perma stealth.

    By the way, I have an alter set of 2 Corrupted / 2 Purified and Perfect Vorpal, where I push my crit rate to 29%.. I am making a Sigil of Devoted soon and need 2 more Lum Favor to upgrade my off hand. So tell me, as a 24.5 k GWF how do you handle your competitions.
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  • pando83pando83 Member Posts: 2,562 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    I can comment on instigator type. Tested it for quite a while now.

    Damage is there. Very nice TBH.
    Half tankiness is not. You're squishy like a destro. Need quite a lot of ability to use sprint and even so you pretty much can't stay in a brawl for too long.

    That's the big problem. I hate it but may need to switch to sentinel and have kind of an hybrid rotation with FLS/CAGI/RS (no full intimidation) and see if it's fun to play. I hope it is.

    Instigator is fun, it's pretty much a DPS PvP path. But with current DPS around you are glass cannon.

    I'm sitting at close to 700 kills, 300 deaths 1k assistances but it requires quite a lot of focus and even so, most of the time it's just not enough.

    Hope the devs can rework this mess of a class in the future to make it more fun and viable to play.
  • lewel555lewel555 Member Posts: 616 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    icyphish wrote: »
    1. Have a DC partner that keeps you alive
    2. have a heavy attack partner with control skill :)

    It's not that Gwf needs to pair with another blue to have a chance against one single red, it's that the other blue would have better chances to win the fight if he was solo and did not have to baby-sit you.
  • tbhdk2tbhdk2 Member Posts: 78
    edited December 2014
    icyphish wrote: »
    I know what you mean, thats why I quoted high GS fight is "leaning more towards the current OPness of some specific classes". My guild has a few 6~7 legendary TRs, and they are all capable of one shotting GWFs 35~45K HP in a single Shocking Excution. It doesn't matter how much your DR is, that attack from what I have heard ignores DR, so 30% or 50%DR, it makes no difference, plus GWF doesn't have the ability to dodge, we practically have to eat the attack in full. (I normally use Sprint when they use that attack to increase our deflect and reduce the dmg, it doesn't normally one shot me, but with like 10~15%HP left it really make not much difference...)

    There is not much we can do about it until Cryptic fixes it I suppose. The only two things I can possibly think of to encounter that is,

    1. Have a DC partner that keeps you alive a bit better, if you survive that attack, you could have a good come back.. TR is OP, but a good DC is even more OP imo. :)

    2. With action point so easily topped up now, I was thinking about expirimenting with Swords Man path, the 5 second immunity after a daily casted could mean we get 5 second immunity every 30 seconds, might make a different, but I am not sure, would have to look into that further...

    As to HR, they are still OP, but imo not as OP as they used to be, and most definitely does not posses as much threat to us compare to the current state of TR/DC, yes they are still tough to fight with, but they could be torned down fast if you have a heavy attack partner with control skill :)

    I been a swordmaster since a few weeks before mod 3 was about to launch - You missing out on the most valueable skill for ranged annoyances and trs - Not sure its worth it. I sure miss FLS. Those 5 seconds might help you run away - but not much else. It isnt that much more time to deal with a tough target in.

    And you dont need to be a legendary TR to oneshot GWFs - Mine can do it easily being only 16 k gs and not having more than epic artifact weapon and less (though almost) than 6 k power. And I do it with lashing blade using first strike - dont even need shocking execution - usually always do 30 k plus with lashing in stealth and in rare cases above 40 k on GWFs. I done 40 k even on a GF. Squishier targets I hit for 40 k plus regularly. Would not surprise me if a 50 k hit is waiting to happen soon. I am not playing that TR very much - since I still need to earn pvp artifact on GWF before Xmas.

    Im not that kinda guy that goes after the most powerfull class - which would be TR. However using first strike means you sacrifice defensive stats. So you are easier to hunt down and kill as well.
  • nezraalnezraal Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    @icyphish

    1. What's stopping another class for pairing with a DC? It's not like you can kill a DC anyway!

    Other classes? They are out dpsing you! You still have a lower advantage. That high cd on DS and short range ? Not so useful, after all! If you are CW , you could CC the DC a bit on node 2. TR, maybe with that high 42 crit damage, or HR half a chance to take out the opposing DC. You look mediocre compared to other classes paired with DC.

    And in premades DC is quite common. Some are running 2 DC now-a-days. Rarely 3.

    2. And when NOT paired with a DC, what do you do in open flag nodes ?

    An opposing TR is taking Flag 3, DC on both sides is on flag 2.
    If DC leaves flag 2, 2 is lost. If you go alone to defend flag 3 , you are dead.

    This is a more common and practical scenario. You can't expect the opposing team to be 5 players coming to defend flag 2 and without a dc while you keep casting CAGI , DS. If both teams are evenly balanced and both are carrying at-least 1 DC, you are in a big disadvantage.
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Thanks for sharing your experience bro, its good to know the current state of Instigator from an experienced player! :)

    pando83 wrote: »
    I can comment on instigator type. Tested it for quite a while now.

    Damage is there. Very nice TBH.
    Half tankiness is not. You're squishy like a destro. Need quite a lot of ability to use sprint and even so you pretty much can't stay in a brawl for too long.

    That's the big problem. I hate it but may need to switch to sentinel and have kind of an hybrid rotation with FLS/CAGI/RS (no full intimidation) and see if it's fun to play. I hope it is.

    Instigator is fun, it's pretty much a DPS PvP path. But with current DPS around you are glass cannon.

    I'm sitting at close to 700 kills, 300 deaths 1k assistances but it requires quite a lot of focus and even so, most of the time it's just not enough.

    Hope the devs can rework this mess of a class in the future to make it more fun and viable to play.
    icydrake%20avatar2_zpsg7rp0xti.jpg

    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    Personally I wont take it as baby-sit. The fact is, BiS GWF is still very strong in PvP and can be very useful for the whole team. That statement I have wrote is only specifically towards TR, and the number of threads in the PvP forum can suggest you how broken that class is now, needless to say, it will be fixed, so the PvP tips still stands.

    Here are a few reason why GWF is still needed in a team.
    - GWF is one of the most mobile classes, while others' stuck in combat, you could sprint and then battlefury to double sprint to help capping/uncapping points. That few seconds time can often make the difference between cap, or uncapped.

    - GWF still hits very hard, and survive better than most other classes. While a HR/CW/SW/TR might nuke pretty well, they could go down in a second, but GWF's Unstoppable could help the team hold a cap a lot longer and easier.

    - GWF still stands pretty good chance against other classes 1 vs 1 (except the current BiS TR with action point bonus abusing Shocking Execution), GWF can still put up a pretty good fight against other classes.

    GWF being tankier and more mobile, can often help the DC to take some hits, stand next to your DC, give your opponent a harder time targeting them, and the DC would reward you and the team with sweet results.

    The way I look at it is, dont be tunnel visioned by how strong some classes are, but look at what you can do to improve yourself and help the team, that's always a good way to make yourself stronger and better :)

    lewel555 wrote: »
    It's not that Gwf needs to pair with another blue to have a chance against one single red, it's that the other blue would have better chances to win the fight if he was solo and did not have to baby-sit you.
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    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    FLS is a pretty good skill, unfortunately it does not prone anymore and the 2 second stun (correct me if I get the duration wrong) would be shorten by the deflect % of the target you are hitting, which makes it pretty meaningless now, here are the cases.

    1. FLS hitting high deflect targets like TR/HR would practically nerf the stun duration by 50~80% easily, which means you get 0.4~1 second stun (my experience is, its normally only about 0.5 sec or less) and with the short duration you have factoring the ping, its just hard to land something useful on them.

    2. FLS hitting SW/GWF = SW is not hard for GWF so we can void that out, as to GWF, sprint or unstoppable cancels it, make it harder to become useful unless timed well, even then, the damage it deals at the moment with such a high cooldown really discounts the effectiveness of this skill.

    3. FLS hitting CW/GF/DC = Not bad against CW, after they dodge you can instantly stun them and land a good hit. As to GF and DC, the damage it deals makes it laughable to them, good GFs are really good at blocking, if its blocked, that's another 15 secondlish cooldown wasted, and as to DC, why even bother, the damage process no threat the them, they can easily heal that over....

    However, FLS can still be useful at certain situation, such as help comboing a target, but as there are other optional skills which can often be more useful, FLS slowly gets dropped in GWF's encounter slots... :\




    tbhdk2 wrote: »
    I been a swordmaster since a few weeks before mod 3 was about to launch - You missing out on the most valueable skill for ranged annoyances and trs - Not sure its worth it. I sure miss FLS. Those 5 seconds might help you run away - but not much else. It isnt that much more time to deal with a tough target in.

    And you dont need to be a legendary TR to oneshot GWFs - Mine can do it easily being only 16 k gs and not having more than epic artifact weapon and less (though almost) than 6 k power. And I do it with lashing blade using first strike - dont even need shocking execution - usually always do 30 k plus with lashing in stealth and in rare cases above 40 k on GWFs. I done 40 k even on a GF. Squishier targets I hit for 40 k plus regularly. Would not surprise me if a 50 k hit is waiting to happen soon. I am not playing that TR very much - since I still need to earn pvp artifact on GWF before Xmas.

    Im not that kinda guy that goes after the most powerfull class - which would be TR. However using first strike means you sacrifice defensive stats. So you are easier to hunt down and kill as well.
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    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • icyphishicyphish Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,255 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    As per my reply on #25, GWF can still be very useful. Its always good to look at what we can do for the team rather than just how to own someone, there are somethings we do the best that no other class can match. :)

    I can see your concern is heavily towards TR and DC, but we all know how broken TR is, its not hard to tell just by visiting PvP forum, it will be fixed eventually so we are not going into details on that.

    As to DC, its really a teamwork thing, by now I believe everyone already accepted the fact that is nearly impossible to kill top tier DC alone (until they adjust the skill or implment cooldown on them), and now if it takes 2 players to take down a DC, then our DPS can easily become useful. :)

    Other than that, I think our class is generally capable of putting up a good fight against most other classes (disadvantaged against HR but there isn't that many top-notch HRs :)), so really, I dont see much problem, GWF is still pretty strong. :D

    nezraal wrote: »
    @icyphish

    1. What's stopping another class for pairing with a DC? It's not like you can kill a DC anyway!

    Other classes? They are out dpsing you! You still have a lower advantage. That high cd on DS and short range ? Not so useful, after all! If you are CW , you could CC the DC a bit on node 2. TR, maybe with that high 42 crit damage, or HR half a chance to take out the opposing DC. You look mediocre compared to other classes paired with DC.

    And in premades DC is quite common. Some are running 2 DC now-a-days. Rarely 3.

    2. And when NOT paired with a DC, what do you do in open flag nodes ?

    An opposing TR is taking Flag 3, DC on both sides is on flag 2.
    If DC leaves flag 2, 2 is lost. If you go alone to defend flag 3 , you are dead.

    This is a more common and practical scenario. You can't expect the opposing team to be 5 players coming to defend flag 2 and without a dc while you keep casting CAGI , DS. If both teams are evenly balanced and both are carrying at-least 1 DC, you are in a big disadvantage.
    icydrake%20avatar2_zpsg7rp0xti.jpg

    Author of GWF Speed Demon PvP Build (Mod 11) <- Click to reveal the Speedy Beast! >:)
  • ortzhyortzhy Member Posts: 1,103 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    icyphish wrote: »
    so really, I dont see much problem, GWF is still pretty strong. :D

    If you cant see the problems, doesnt mean they are not there. GWF is in a bad spot, you cant 1v1 anyone...
  • nezraalnezraal Member, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    ortzhy wrote: »
    If you cant see the problems, doesnt mean they are not there. GWF is in a bad spot, you cant 1v1 anyone...

    Except for SW. The difference can be noticed and visible by a large margin, which is exactly why the class is cripple.

    You can say "yeah I paired with DC", but a ton of times you need to capture flag nodes where the DC is in 2 and you have to cover 1 and 3 alone. On same GS (!9k+) the chances of you losing is 100%. If you can't cover those empty flags the other team is milking points. A DC is sufficient to hold the middle, and so is an opposing DC. Typically 2 is stalemate, all premades carry at-least 1 DC now.

    99% time in premade with 19k+ GS, are won by holding flag 1 or 3 longer than the other team. This is why GWF is nothing but a burden in the team and you are better off with CW/HR/TR/GF or even another DC.
  • nazghul22nazghul22 Member Posts: 407 Arc User
    edited December 2014
    icyphish wrote: »
    The fact is, BiS GWF is still very strong in PvP and can be very useful for the whole team.

    No. It's the weakest class. There might have been a time when gs was scaling better for Gwf than for the other classes, but even that is not true any more. And as for being useful, yeah sure... for the red team.

    Even if you play against the very essence of the class. Even if you go for the Senti Gwf, which is the absurdest possible build when you think of it (defensive offensive fighter??? ). Even if against any DnD logic you start to sprint around like you were not wearing metal armour and giant 2h sword. Even if you choose an exploit (Domi) build. Even if you do all of the above, even if you betray the class, even if you spit on it, you still get the weakest possible class, who at best can hope to defeat SWs once in a while, and who has no synergy with any other class.
    ToD = ..........
    Tired of Dailies/Tyranny of Dailies/Timers of Doom/Tricked Or Duped/Tremendously Obnoxious Dailies/Try Otherwise, Devs
  • ortzhyortzhy Member Posts: 1,103 Bounty Hunter
    edited December 2014
    nezraal wrote: »
    Except for SW.

    you have 0 chance against a temptation SW... there is no way to get close to it.
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