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HR's R.I.P in PVE
Since the lastest updates, the HR class has been terribly useless in PVE. CW's, SW's and TR's does the same single target damage as HR, and HR's are the worst multitarget DPS class in PVE. The trapper tree is a blunder, it improves multitarget dps while reduces the single target damage, so it is the same.
I guess that the reason of that "PVE nerf" i is due to PVP. In this game, the PVP nerfs indirectly affects to PVE, and destroy classes for PVE, like HR.
What solutions I suggest?
In general,change the power effects when you enter in PVP.
If this is difficult to program, at least make this changes for HR to get the same opportunities that other classes to join in a party:
- Increase the area of effect of Seismic Shot or rework it. if you compares this power with, for example, Opressive force seems a joke.
- Make some encounters powers (that are useless in PVP and PVE) useful for PVE. For example, comanding shot deals damage to all mobs that are near who has received the main attack during a few seconds. Hawk shot crosses all enemies found in range.
- Reduce the time cast of Split the Sky and Thron Ward. You have made same thing with some powers with the most overpowered class for PVE in this game (CW).
Participate in this thread, i need the feedback of the HR's PVE players community and the dev's.
No need to nerf other classes, only improve the worst classes.
I guess that the reason of that "PVE nerf" i is due to PVP. In this game, the PVP nerfs indirectly affects to PVE, and destroy classes for PVE, like HR.
What solutions I suggest?
In general,change the power effects when you enter in PVP.
If this is difficult to program, at least make this changes for HR to get the same opportunities that other classes to join in a party:
- Increase the area of effect of Seismic Shot or rework it. if you compares this power with, for example, Opressive force seems a joke.
- Make some encounters powers (that are useless in PVP and PVE) useful for PVE. For example, comanding shot deals damage to all mobs that are near who has received the main attack during a few seconds. Hawk shot crosses all enemies found in range.
- Reduce the time cast of Split the Sky and Thron Ward. You have made same thing with some powers with the most overpowered class for PVE in this game (CW).
Participate in this thread, i need the feedback of the HR's PVE players community and the dev's.
No need to nerf other classes, only improve the worst classes.
Post edited by urshugli on
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Comments
is this a joke?
please write here what changes have affected your gameplay because i missed all of them
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Useless? You're kidding. You can ask buffs for your class, but we don't really need them.
I just dont really get, what recent changes you refer to. As I see, with Mod 5 Trapper just became very viable in PVE, and Archer was very good since MOD4.
There may be need some power rework. Trapping mechanism and putting up roots is not the best now, Binding arrow needs a rework, since it's the same as Constucting.
Seismic Shot is just fine. It's unique for HR, we don't need to compare all dailies to Oppressive force. I get a very good damage with it, and it's more challenging to use than spamming OF, so I like it. Maybe Cold Steel Hurricane needs a rework, I find it inferior to SS in every situation.
I very much agree with Hawk Shot! I find it useless, it has a long casting animation, and melee Hawkeye is the same. Hitting an aimed takes almost as much time as a HS, and it has more damage. 15% party buff for the next damage is a joke, there's no way you can use it effectively in combat.
You already have cast time reduction in Thorn Wards and StS with Archery tree, you can feat StS to last 5 sec longer. You can use Royal Guard set, with further reduction RA would become OP. You have casting time reduction as a trapper.
So, while I agree with some power rework (Binding Arrow, Hawk Shot, reduce Commanding Shot animation time etc) I think there is no need to mess the ones, that are working well now. (TW StS, SS etc.) Or there is no need to rework HR, It IS very good in PVE right now. There are, of course, lot of Pvp specced HRs, With 20 Constitution, who will never be as much useful in PVE, as a PVE specced HR. And, I see a lot of very bad pve HR's, along with a lot of bad cws. That does not mean, that HR is inferior to anyone.
R.I.P. PVE??? I want my GWF to be dead as the HR. Or I wanted my TR in mod4 to be dead as a HR.
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Troll Post?
HR is fine in pve. Still has highest single target damage and very good aoe.
though i wouldnt mind a cast animation reduction on split the sky, which is a bit annoying.
The only time I have issues with my HR is when there's no melee and I end up having to "tank". Since I'm an archer spec that feels right to me. DPS has never been a problem.
Only thing that bothers me aside from agreeing on the StS cast time, is tab feels unpredictably, unresponsive sometimes. I'll switch and have to jam fox shift multiple times before it does something for instance even though it shows that it's ready for use. Kinda defeats the point as I think we should be rewarded for having good "twitch" ability since it one of the ways to maximize DPS. But I've also seen that unresponsiveness across multiple classes too (GWF unstoppable not popping for discernible reason, GF shield doing whatever it feels like doing) so maybe it's WAI or my keyboard is dying...
However, you touch on one point I *do* agree with you: Split the Sky. The casting time on that annoys me to no end. I would be a hell of a nice skill for a Combat HR too, if the casting time wasn't so darned long. I've jumped into the fray quite a number of times, taking hits from all sides and relying on my Lifesteal to keep me up and running. Having a Split the Sky over my head would greatly improve my damage, but keeping it up - I like to solo stuff, like IWD Majors and working on Epic dungeons - can be suicide. The time it takes to cast can easily get you killed. Decent opener, but not of the 'Fire and Forget'-class Rain of Arrows and Thorn Ward are. Casting time is just too long.
HR Stormwarden Trapper / Stormwarden Combat
GWF Swordmaster Destroyer
CW Master of Flame Thaumaturge / Spellstorm Oppressor
TR Master Infiltrator Executioner
SW Soulbinder Fury
It sounds like you are playing archery spec. I tried it for a while, and when leveling. I completely hated it. I always end up face tanking everything, in group and solo. In that case I figured I might as well just stand my ground and face the problem. I changed to combat and never looked back ever since. I find it a ton of fun. It's fast and furious. You don't neglect your ranged skills either, it's just more secondary. Archery really needs someone to tank, otherwise you are constantly trying to kite and I didn't find that fun at all. Nothing wrong with it though, just a completely different play style.
I agree Seismic shot could be much better. It is extremely narrow and I've noticed some mobs at the edge of the rectangle or too close to me will not take damage or get pushed.
Would like to see another daily for SW. Cold steel hurricane is just meh in PvE. I'm pretty much down to disrupting (for utility) and Seismic shot.
I'm a pathfinder archer spec. I attempted combat, hated it. Attempted trapper, it was fun and I can see the benefits, but it wasn't my style. I can outdps most people, though some CWs and SWs are difficult to keep up with. I have poured my heart and soul into the HR, and have played them religiously since they were introduced more than a year ago.
All in all, I find little to fault. I do just great!
For example - if you're trying to use an archery spec'd pathfinder sniper build for PvE, mobs might be trouble for you, while bosses might as well not show up to fight you. A damage spec'd Stormwarden (the AoE damage build you're probably looking for), however, can frequently rival CW's in sheer dps output, and while a trapper build will eat mobs at a much slower rate than a Stormwarden, the control and other defensive aspects keep them very safe while they do so.
Remember the HR is an ambush predator. Set up nuke traps. If you're a Stormwarden, try this for mobs: hit whatever button brings up the AoE circle for Split the Sky. Make sure your toe is on the near edge of the circle, and the far edge of the circle runs through the middle of the mob. Fire. Since this doesn't hit until they start attacking, take a couple of steps forward and drop Thorn Ward with the circle again on your toe, with the far edge of the circle this time on the toe of the nearest enemy. Now they'll rush you, so quickly drop Rain of Arrows right in front of you and they should be dead very quickly. If they aren'tdodge around inside your circles a couple of times, and they'll die chasing you down. The point is to make sure the mobs are thoroughly boned by the time they get to you.
For bosses drop Split the Sky from a distance, then quickly rush in very close and drop Thorn Ward and Rain of Arrows right on top of them, dodge out of their red circles and come back in very close to try to keep them standing in your AoE's. Electric shot is a surprisingly good at-will for this (especially with the new stormwarden artifact bow on the way) since you'll be too close to use split shot on the adds effectively, and electric shot gets you a 10' blast radius that will combine with your encounters nicely to keep your circle of death... well... deadly.
For dragons, drop all three from as much distance as you can get, use aimed shot when you can, and rapid shot when the adds are interrupting you. With all the debuffs the dragon will be getting hit with aimed shot will do crazier-than-normal damage. I don't want to give my exact numbers in here, lest we start a pissing contest, but I assure you the damage is significant.
I do that with my Pathfinder Trapper. Just add "rain it" to the mantra.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
Seismic shot is our best PVE daily and its fairly awesome. Just need to move and aim it. If you have a CW when they cast singularity than blast them.
Split the Sky is awful and does need a cast time reduction. The animation takes forever and mobs are dead most of the time before it gets up. Maybe its boss fight only but i remember it being awful.
Commanding shot and hawkshot are left over from nature feat tree and no one uses them. They look great when cast but take forever. Commanding doesnt seem to debuff enough and hawkshot is worthless unless you are 8000 miles away. Even then the dmg is subpar for how much work has to go in.
If any daily needs to be reworked.. its Cold Steel Hurricane. OMG what a waste of an amazing animation. The ball of death everyone will dodge in pve and pvp. Should be a large aoe circle and dmg increased. Make it pvp and pve worthy. Such a shame cuz it looks crazy awesome.
(and on that note should unlift the nerf to Stormstep action/disruptive shot combo. At this point it just put stormwarden on the backburner even in PVE and definitely for PVE and feels unnecessary now.)
Rain is an integral part of the LS highway
As for it's capabilities they are fine in PvE right now. Like the GWF they are the solid second place in several areas.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
For mobs fights I typically slot: Aspect of the Pack, Aspect of the Lone Wolf, Constrictive Arrow, Rain of Arrows,Hindering Shot, Seismic Shot and Careful Attack. I focus on cycling encounters to keep many mobs rooted and use Careful Attack+Rain of Arrows on cc-immune targets. In my experience only Fury SWs and some other Archer/Combat HRs can outdps me on single targets if I use Careful and Rain of Arrows with Master Trapper up. I usually don´t slot Aspect of the Serpent because using it doesn´t sinergize with my target of strategically rooting mobs and I need the extra-survivability from Aspect of the Lone Wolf.
For single boss fights like Lostmauth, Heralds or Garakas (it is a single boss fight for most of the time) I replace Hindering with Fox Shift and use Slasher's Mark as a daily. Fox´s Cunning and Slasher´s Mark grant a stream of free dodges/extra stamina and guard to the whole party making the fight much easier.
For dungeons I use the Corrupted Black Ice set with two Greater Red Dragon Glyphs (enough recovery to endlessly cycle encounter plus extra-DPS and ArPen from glyphs). I still have to round out my gear (ArPen is too low atm) but I will do that only after getting the artifact blades and Draconic Templar set.
Born of Black Wind: SW Level 80
I find SW trapper is actually quite deadly, as SW is far more tailored to clearing than PF, which makes it valuable in most dungeons.
Sharra Del'Armgo - SW Trapper Hybrid HR
Ogghra Bar'Ghuzumn - MI Scoundrel TR
Vænna Thrymskjöldr - IV Protector GF
I love split the sky, of course the more mobs around the best it fares, so far my only solution for its casting time in PVE is to advance at the front of the pack, and cast it while everyone else rushes into the fray
And, of course, Cold Steel Hurricane. Please give storm wardens something useful in place of this.