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People are understimating devs.. we're actually ALMOST approaching class balance(PVP)
xplmao2
Banned Users, Neverwinter Beta Users Posts: 232 Bounty Hunter
Honestly? The new rogue really isn't that bad APART FROM BLOODPATH, I've fought all the 3 paths (I play every class), you can actually fight back until you're finished off with bloodpath.
What we need for each class:
Trickster Rogue: Perma-Stealth needs to be more dangerous to use (It is not at all currently, devs failed), BloodPath needs a severe tone down. Dazing Strike needs a little activation time decrease (Not as useless as the old dazing).
Hunter Ranger: Careful attack needs to be fixed (It's bugged, see relaxinator's thread), Life-Steal toned down a bit.
Control Wizard : More responsive teleports, no more skilless auto-procs and Shard of the Endless Avalanche(meatball) being brought back to its former glory (Took skill to use)
Great Weapon Fighter: Takedown needs to be reverted back into a prone, Frontline needs damage increase (But left as a stun), roar needs a little CC such as a daze. Indomittable Battle Strike needs a 50% faster activation time, same for Flourish (Stab your foe with blinding speed huh? lol). This class is "kinda" balanced but it's in a pathetic state right now (Minus Intimidation which needs to completely go).
Guarian Fighter: Block needs to be fixed (Sometimes drops for no reason), enemies need to see the Guard Meter's bar dropping to have a chance to fight back. Overall this class is in a good spot. Minus some encounter bugs (KC,Anvil,KV).
Scourge Warlock: This is the worst class right now, All of its powers need a faster activation time, and it'll be on par with others. Damage is more than fine.
Devoted Cleric: The heal is too much, dial it back a little to reasoable levels (Like module 1), DPS cleric is something close to a nuke, it needs a tonedown too (A 12K DC can put up a fightbeat 18K+ of any other class, I'm serious). DC isn't supposed to be a DPS nuke, but give them tools to perform in solo play and fight back in PVP, but not this much.
Discuss.
What we need for each class:
Trickster Rogue: Perma-Stealth needs to be more dangerous to use (It is not at all currently, devs failed), BloodPath needs a severe tone down. Dazing Strike needs a little activation time decrease (Not as useless as the old dazing).
Hunter Ranger: Careful attack needs to be fixed (It's bugged, see relaxinator's thread), Life-Steal toned down a bit.
Control Wizard : More responsive teleports, no more skilless auto-procs and Shard of the Endless Avalanche(meatball) being brought back to its former glory (Took skill to use)
Great Weapon Fighter: Takedown needs to be reverted back into a prone, Frontline needs damage increase (But left as a stun), roar needs a little CC such as a daze. Indomittable Battle Strike needs a 50% faster activation time, same for Flourish (Stab your foe with blinding speed huh? lol). This class is "kinda" balanced but it's in a pathetic state right now (Minus Intimidation which needs to completely go).
Guarian Fighter: Block needs to be fixed (Sometimes drops for no reason), enemies need to see the Guard Meter's bar dropping to have a chance to fight back. Overall this class is in a good spot. Minus some encounter bugs (KC,Anvil,KV).
Scourge Warlock: This is the worst class right now, All of its powers need a faster activation time, and it'll be on par with others. Damage is more than fine.
Devoted Cleric: The heal is too much, dial it back a little to reasoable levels (Like module 1), DPS cleric is something close to a nuke, it needs a tonedown too (A 12K DC can put up a fightbeat 18K+ of any other class, I'm serious). DC isn't supposed to be a DPS nuke, but give them tools to perform in solo play and fight back in PVP, but not this much.
Discuss.
Post edited by xplmao2 on
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We are always looking for new models --- Borderline Fashiondolls ---
Nu-Uh. Steath-Launched bloodpath guarantees every strike of BB to crit.
Which does monstruous amounts of damage.
Even if that piercing is removed, people will still cry about it.
Dailies should un-stealth or not being able to be used from stealth.
Also our bug list is far more than just some guard bugs and a few encounters. This is the list of bugs i have posted in another thread and see everyday and really needs to be fixed. Also there is much more than this but i can't remember them all
Guard not activating right away(usually gets me CC'd -.-)
Guard just dropping for no reason
guard staying up perminantly BUT not blocking any dmg
CC going right through guard
Lunging strike and bull charge going into double animation and making me not able to block
Knights valor sometimes not activating right away
knights valor dropping even when i take no dmg
Griffons wrath losing charges for no reason
anvil of doom just completly not even regestering as a hit
Steel defence still dont work properly
Knights challenge not targeting people sometimes
Crescendo not hitting people but still going on cooldown
Atm in pvp we have many bugs but other than that we are in a decent place sure. I wish there was more build options though, atm it seems to me the best option is to get STR belt and just max STR out then you can basically 1 hit roation 80% of players and if you don't have this then your dmg isn't that good in comparison even if your dps stats are high.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Also imo while your mentioned issues are the main issues right now, I think the other issue is that there's just too much damage in the game atm. Half of these problems wouldn't be an issue if everyone did less damage because it means burst isn't as effective since you have more time to fight back. Imo base tenacity should probably be doubled or tripled + more tenacity options should be given on gear, since it's a bit too late to dial down the base damage of skills.
I don't mind giving up some damage for more control, say, if i hit more mobs, a little less damage. That's fine.
Word is the devs feel that shard's prone is good and that makes up for the low damage. Ezra tried to convince them otherwise but couldn't.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
It's still the same as module 3's one. It didn't get increased whatsoever.
Being one, I can say I can protect myself against another unfortunate SW better than against any other class as of now. Especially since the new mod. Sometimes DCs still, but not as much anymore.
I wish with new paragon path they would actually care to improve some things to make people wanna play it because it's a good class and I enjoy it greatly in PvE.
PvP, however, is a slaughter house with me being a lamb.
TRs can hold a node and 1v1 any class (even 2v1).
Yeah no, try again OP.
Perma-Stealth needs to be more dangerous to use or just be gone altogether, and we all know SW is the worst. Those are exactly my points in the OP.
Try again.
You can add on Infinite frontline use bug if you'd like. I can say for sure that the frontline bug is not an animation thing, the damage does not always go through but the CC effect does. For some stupid reason damage and CC portion of abilities are separate, this can be more easily seen using HR shift. Threatening rush still gets stuck on terrain or nothing at all, worse with GWF use, been like that since the start.
My biggest dislike though is the guard response time, it somehow got much worse than it previously was.
Didnt know about the surge bug. I am a SM but that bug sounds stupid lol. And yeah gf block sucks atm.... I really, really hate how unreliable it is and especially with the double animation bugs of skills since they make you unable to block after using the skill.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
i agree with the rest.
Deadpool // HR
Shakur // Tr
Edit: Era of Tabbed Shard is over, it make no sense to bring it back, it was good in mod 3. Try to fight without Shield on tab, you are dead meet even for DCs.
it's not that difficult. my 10k wizard lacks spellstorm/assailant so all i can do is control instead of dps, but that's enough to catch a rogue and have the rest of the team nuke them down. i have dodged at least half of the stealth lashings and a decent amount of gloaming cuts, but i can't deal with 3 people targetting me 1st. slotting 3-4 control encounters + orb is enough for me to hold anyone (excluding gwf's >.>) long enough for the rest of the team to kill them.
clerics i agree don't die easily but that's it (those 18k heals.....). dps clerics seems rare but i know from mine that they can and can't melt others depending on style of fighting.
the real problem for wizards is not a rogue but the fact that they are a high priority target that many people wants to kill 1st b4 even capturing a node.
ps: icy terrain is a dead encounter for pvp (and will have no point once permas start getting offhands), but steal time still works. non-targetting aoe control encounter that forces them to back off and likely lose their only chance to use lashing. i also use feated furious immolation to a good effect in order to catch them b4 they even reach me and gather all my enemies into a single spot
i did say that i catch them b4 they reach me while running in stealth. whether i live or die depends on whether my team can capitalize on it as i am a supporting oppressor and not some spellstorm thaumateurge that can rip people's hp in half in just a few seconds
i also lack a set bonus and tenacity but i do use shield occasionally to block a portion of incoming damage since a lot is aimed at me
You will never catch a tr before he reach you in stealth if he knows what he is doing and is 19kgs and it dont matter If I run into you with my 20kgs gwf or Hr I will kill you in passing by without even stopping in my strides.
As 10kgs you are so far behind those that are 19+ I can only conclude that after reading your text you never fought them...
I'm sorry but that does sound like a mistake bro. You might have fought a lesser gs rogue but any 19k rogue would easily kill a 10k cw. I don't even think much skill would come into it then since at 10k your survivability and dmg would be far too behined to be able to do anything.
I'm not saying you arent skilled but just that gear makes a huge difference. Even 2k gs gap is a lot with most classes.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
if you want to completely discredit me for being unable to deal with rogues past 15-16k gs then go right ahead. what i said doesn't change though.
no rogue in the game will take the long route for their 1st attack as stealth has a timer. every single one i have ever fought travels in a straight line for their that 1st hit regardless of what class i am playing. after that, they start circling you but that doesn't matter for a wizard as much since you can control them while they do it. the important part is interrupting their 1st hit to avoid a lashing blade and hold them for as long as possible so your team can kill them.
No offense man but you should just stop. Anyone TR that you have dealt with with your gs in which you were successful is either your gs or there abouts or isn't built even a little bit correctly. Any TRs I come across that are 18-20k that are not built right or they don't know what they are doing =dead TR. The ones that are built correctly in the 17-18k'ish range can basically play with me like a cat plays with it's kill. This is a GWF perspective, btw.
I think, that he wanted to say, that he helped his team with his CC to catch the TR. They did the dmg.
I played a pug match, where I went mid and then to the enemy base and my team got killed in seconds by the enemy perma TR on home. After I raged to myself about ELO and 10k PuGs I inspected the CW in my team, who complained. He had 19k+ GS, 40k+ HP, full BI and 5 legendaries, not BIS, but really good. As said before, the TR killed him in seconds. I did not inspect the enemy TR but if I remember the posts of my CW teammate about 'stupid OP 16k TR'.
I'm not, I was speaking very honest. If I lowerd my gs down to 10k there is no way I would be able to beat any 19k rogue, thats my point, no one can unless they fight a very, very bad rogue with a bad build and still then I think it would require some amazing luck and the rogue to mess up.
It's the way the game works, nothing to do with you just that 10k isnt in the same league as 19k, not even close.
Skill doesnt come into it much when your dmg can't go past there regen and since there stats will be way higher they will have twice or triple your dps.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
I get it but what the reality is - A proper TR will most likely kill the whole team one way or the other in that GS range. And it's no where near as simple as he believes it to be if he's playin' against the real deal. If it was, this forum would be populated by threads saying TRs need a huge emergency buff immediately.
The HR is still ******ed. The whole deflection gaining HP feature simply has to go. This is one of the worst mistakes the devs made with the HR. There deflection needs to be toned down as well. A 6 encounter class gets the best defenses in game is just broken. There is no debating this.
CW needs prone time and a damage boost on shard but a damage nerf to icy rays which should be dodgeable. I've seen people one shotted with icy rays... that's ridiculous.
DC is incredibly powerful right now and needs some of its powers to get either a cool down increase or their effect reduced. They are hands down the hardest to kill right now and they shouldn't be.
GWF intimidation cheese is still rampant. Give takedown its prone back but reduce the stun time on FLS.
GF needs KV taken back to a standard cool down format instead of toggle mode. Right now its the easy mode I win button. The walking speed while guarding is excessive too considering how much longer they can hold guard now.
The SW needs some help big time. There needs to be some sort of encounter defense change to give them some sort of chance. Some ideas are:
Warlock's Bargain damage transfer increased to 20% and change it so that control powers used to effect the warlock also effect the target of WB while active.
WS needs its hold time increased and it should be a full on daze instead of just a root.
BVA can crit now (yay!) And persists through prone but still gets cancelled by daze/stuns. This should be fixed.
Soul Spark accumulation can use an increase and spark should remain persistent until used or death. Or at least have a slow drain instead of all gone at once.
ALL CASTING TIMES NEED TO BE SPED UP!
Fix the response lag between the time shadow slip gets input and when it takes effect.
Gloom level 60 Control Wizard
Dusk level 60 Trickster Rogue
Dawn level 60 Devoted Cleric
Eclipse level 60 Hunter Ranger
Wrath level 60 Great Weapon Fighter
Jinx level 60 Scourge Warlock
You are talking about a debuff, right?
There are some threads claiming, that PvP is totally balanced. Most of them by TRs and DCs. I am not sure, if they are trolling.