[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
test content
Logo
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Should I go Faithful or Righteous, or what?
zebular
Member, Neverwinter Moderator, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 15,270 Community Moderator
In PvE content only (I do not PvP):
Since Alpha, my main DC has been full Faithful tree. She had been able to handle any solo content with no real issues, unless I do not pay attention. Now with the new changes, I did not like the looks of all the regen effects in the new Faithful tree that seemed to be good mostly only in groups, so I went Virtuous with her.
My problem arose the moment I tried to fight a Torturer group in WoD. It literally took me 3+ minutes to kill them, all while I was struggling to stay alive. I was using Healing Word, Astral Shield, and Divine Glow as my Encounters with Sacred Flame and Astral Seal as my At-Wills, and Hammer of Fate and Hallowed Ground as my Dailies.
I realized how even more underperforming I was as an obviously specced Righteous cleric came in and helped me by one to two shotting all the mobs for me, to save my butt. They did this not once, not twice, but on three separate mob fights. Where I was struggling to even dent mobs, they were able to kill them in one or two hits. Not that this wasn't appreciated, it was! Greatly! (I was about to have a rage-quit moment)
So, my question is, if I want to be viable as both a Soloing Cleric and a Group Healer, with little focus on DPS (as I have a combat cleric already), what should I do? What feats and paragon paths should I choose? I do not want to make her Anointed Champion, as I have one already at 60. I'd like to keep her Divine Oracle. She's decked out in full T2 Miracle Healer gear and has nearly 14k GS. In the past, she's been an asset to Epic Delve group play as well as able to hold her own in any solo content. I'd like to rebuild her to be similar, just without going full DPS.
Thanks in advance!
Since Alpha, my main DC has been full Faithful tree. She had been able to handle any solo content with no real issues, unless I do not pay attention. Now with the new changes, I did not like the looks of all the regen effects in the new Faithful tree that seemed to be good mostly only in groups, so I went Virtuous with her.
My problem arose the moment I tried to fight a Torturer group in WoD. It literally took me 3+ minutes to kill them, all while I was struggling to stay alive. I was using Healing Word, Astral Shield, and Divine Glow as my Encounters with Sacred Flame and Astral Seal as my At-Wills, and Hammer of Fate and Hallowed Ground as my Dailies.
I realized how even more underperforming I was as an obviously specced Righteous cleric came in and helped me by one to two shotting all the mobs for me, to save my butt. They did this not once, not twice, but on three separate mob fights. Where I was struggling to even dent mobs, they were able to kill them in one or two hits. Not that this wasn't appreciated, it was! Greatly! (I was about to have a rage-quit moment)
So, my question is, if I want to be viable as both a Soloing Cleric and a Group Healer, with little focus on DPS (as I have a combat cleric already), what should I do? What feats and paragon paths should I choose? I do not want to make her Anointed Champion, as I have one already at 60. I'd like to keep her Divine Oracle. She's decked out in full T2 Miracle Healer gear and has nearly 14k GS. In the past, she's been an asset to Epic Delve group play as well as able to hold her own in any solo content. I'd like to rebuild her to be similar, just without going full DPS.
Thanks in advance!
[ My Character Bios | Discord: Zebular#9524 | In Game: @zebular (PC) • @MtnDewFreak (XBOX) • @Terraseer (PS4) ]
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
Post edited by Unknown User on
0
Comments
From a solo perspective I based my decision on some of the IWD HEs in preview.
My survivability with Faithful was impressive, better than before the changes I think. Killing stuff isn't fast but I've not been concerned about my health, or that of my Neverember Guard companion. I've been using Sacred Flame and Astral Seal/BotS. Although BotS annoys me because of the small amount extra divinity gain, without it I don't need to manually switch out of divine mode when divinity is exhausted, with it I do. It's an extra hassle with a play style that I currently find too chaotic for my tastes. Time will tell whether I get used to the new mechanics. Encounters are Astral Shield (primarily cast empowered), Bastion of Health and Divine Glow (primary divine mode spell). I've also toyed with Daunting Light. I use Flame Strike and Hallowed Ground for Dailies although I rarely use these solo.
I reran the same HE on preview with Righteous last night for interest and completed it fine although I had less health remaining at the end. I recall have a harder time early on in the preview period.
I've yet to do any group content, so can't comment on that. I'll try Shores and Lostmauth once they're unlocked.
It'll be interesting to see what others recommend. I'm expecting a lot of votes in favour of Righteous.
Personally, healing word/bastion are very situational. Divine glow/sun burst/searing light can be spammed without a second thought and end up healing in the process and one can still use astral shield and maintain stupidly high damage.
You can have 2 support powers/astral seal and lance/searing light and provide an nice mix of both worlds. Fire of the Gods might be a little too strong as you can just stack lifesteal, crit a mob and dance around ignoring them.
Now for the basics. As a DO your class feature powers for solo should be Divine Fortune/Terrifying Insight/Holy Fervor. Everything else doesn't make as much of an impact. For your at-wills Sacred Flame is decent, but if you want faster killing speed you could try using Brand of the Sun instead. Divine Glow is a good encounter that procs your capstone, so keep it. Replace Healing Word/Astral Shield with Daunting Light/Chains of Blazing Light (Daunting does more damage but Chains offers control) and Sunburst. Your dailies should be Flame Strike/Hallowed Ground. Hammer of Fate is nice but you don't really need the extra single-target damage.
I suggest you try testing out a full damage setup (Daunting instead of Chains, Brand instead of Astral Seal) before replacing stuff with Chains/Astral Seal if you really want them.
Gameplay: Begin by using Divine Glow, then using multiple divine mode Sunburst/Daunting or Chains and then drop an empowered Daunting or Chains on survivors. Spam at-wills, then repeat. Note that divine Sunburst's DoT procs slowly. Use Flame Strike if nothing crits and mobs still have too much HP. You should learn to better manage your divine pips based on how tough mobs are - if something crits, you probably won't need to use as many divine power pips/divine mode Sunburst/Daunting/Chains.
Normal mode Sunburst is your panic button/flashy finisher. It can now interrupt -a lot- of things, like the freezing whirlwind attack some WoD mobs love to use. Use it as you see fit.
Gear and Feats: The first tier of Righteous has a feat that increases your overall damage done by 10% total, along with a second that can potentially increase your DPS by an additional 10% when you take damage. I would suggesting getting only the first one, if you can.
Gear is pretty straightforward - if you want to do full damage to mobs, raise your ArP. Equip accessories that give lots of ArP on your augmnent, if you have to. Ideally you'll want around 2400, but I know people who can make do with as little as 1600+.
Once you know your way around the proper way of tackling solo content as a DO DC everything else should follow. Make adjustments as you see fit.
I'm going wait until tomorrow or tuesday until I start playing around on preview with her, as I need to let my annoyance over my new spec wear off to justify buying a full respec token. I'm really kicking myself for not going with my instinct, which was to test her first on preview... all my choices just looked so darn good in Virtuous, I got ahead of myself I suppose.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
In the past, my power set up on her solo was Daunting Light, Astral Shield, and the third I'd swap between Bastion, Healing Word, Divine Glow, and Sunburst. Most of the time, it was DL, AS, and DG. The reason I went to Healing Word instead of DL in WoD is because when I tried the first few mobs, I realized Astral Shield's divine mode was fundamentally changed and no longer gave the regen and defense ground temp effect I had been so used to for three+ years (since Alpha). In the past, she could plop down a Divine AS and then just face tank almost anything, plopping Hallowed when she needed if a divine AD wasn't ready. Sure, fights could take minutes but she would never be in any real danger, unless it was an Epic or HE boss.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I see. Well, the thing is you now have a lot of extra +healing feats as a Virtuous DC so you could argue that, in a way, part of the power of the old blue Astral Shield is now intrinsic to your character because he/she picked Virtuous. I'm confident you'll be fine if you play more aggressively, as long as you don't do anything too brash like try to tank a major HE. Besides, you won't believe how manageable ToD mobs are now if you keep interrupting their strongest abilities with normal Sunburst XD.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
You can also crit with heals.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
I went out with Sacred Flame, Astral Seal, Daunting Light, Sunburst, Divine Glow, Hallowed Ground, and Flamestrike. I had a much more enjoyable feel that felt close to what I am looking for. I'll need to respec her though as I went with the feat for Prophecy of Doom, which I took for boss content. Now, I don't see me using it ever. I'll still need to do some things different when I am group healing, but I used to swap out powers for that before anyway. Probably try Healing Word, Astral Shield, and Bastion. Swapping Bastion with Sunburst or Daunting Light/Divine Glow/or whatever as needed for specific delves and groups.
So, I'll try out some of the tips on preview and try and find a good medium.
Thanks very much for the tips! This has sent me back on the proper path to enjoy Daxx again.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]
In the meantime I decided to whip out my old Virtuous DC earlier (he's 11k GS but without GS bloat companions he's basically a 10k) just to test how well Virtuous works on the undergeared and the effects were nothing short of dramatic. Virtuous path's Shield of the Divine is actually a pretty good capstone, you sacrifice direct healing but gain significantly higher healing-over-time and what is essentially passive healing over time to you and everyone near you (incidentally we're using the same weapon, so the capstone would give you extra ~1k HP per tick too). My DC only had 22k HP, 1k defense and 21 AC but thanks to the Virtuous feats he could easily win a fight against two Frost giants and 4 dire/polar bears without dodging. The key feats seem to be Cleansing Fire (which you already took), Purity (which not only affects your powers but your other feats well!), the capstone, Lasting Wishes and Have Faith.
In a nutshell, Virtuous seems designed to be a walking version of the old divine Astral Shield, especially if you spec for more mitigation. It sacrifices burst healing for -massive- healing over time. One of best things about it solo-wise is that Divine Glow (now a staple for all of us) can proc Have Faith, Cleansing Fire, Purity and your capstone, allowing you to face tank stuff in solo PvE and pull off a 3x divine Daunting Light + empowered Daunting Light combos safely while the healing over time/mitigation effect is up.
I strongly suggest getting all the feats previously mentioned to stabilize your build before you pick any other flavor feats.
BTW, I bumped into your character earlier in WoD and noticed that you were not taking damage from mobs even without the Virtuous capstone and whatever damage you took instantly got healed thanks to your feats + Miracle Healer. With the right setup I don't think you'll even need to dodge while your healing over time effects are up.
I'm glad to know you're adjusting well to a new loadout.
It's been the consensus that Righteous is the way to go in the new mod because groups really don't need healing so much. Instead they need buffs and there is a way to buff quicker and better with righteous tree.
Luckily that also boosts damage consideribly.
Now, I also have 15 str - not trying to be dps, but my damage is shocking. I'd be glad to show you sometime on live. Not the best DC, of course, but she works really well.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
It's true that Righteous does obscene with Avatar up atm. I know Righteous DCs who can clear encounter groups in two, sometimes even just one, encounter power use in WoD. Depending on your setup, and especially if your party is well-geared and experienced, then atm at least all the extra healing from Virtuous and Faithful is not required for group PvE.
Which is only slightly higher than the base. Because of the awful speed, really not worth it. Dragon PUG, but about it.
And no, it's definitely not just "slightly" higher than base. The casting speed is really all that kills it.
Hi Zeb. I might have been that DC lol, I remember running across you recently but who knows. You can stay Faithful and do all the things you are looking for. The best performing Faithful build I tried in preview was a Faithful w/ Capstone and the last 10 points put in Righteous for the damage feats. Now, my specialty is soloing so this biased towards that end but you can still shine in group play. If group play is more your goal then a Virt build will be moar group heal oriented. You can PM or ask in Legit me to tell you more or set up seeing my preview toons in action. I am currently full tard DPS Righteous and while it is fun and can be soloed with a mobile kitey style quite effectively, the Faithful build is like a bunker/ brick ****e house. Those 2 damage feats help speed up dailies to a very acceptable level. Rotations will vary on need/ group needs etc. If you are running MH gear than slotting all damage encounters is perfectly suitable for dailies and solo situations. Group play and certain Major He's/ Dungeon soloes make using AShield attractive, Divine Glow for Debuff/ Heals/ damage and your choice of Chains/ Searing/ or even Sunburst if you like interrupts/ ledge pushing etc. If you dont want the extra DPS buff from second slot Righteous then go with 1st slot Righteous and 1st slot Virt for the extra 10 percent heal would work. My opinion is the extra heals aren't really needed and when solo you will get damaged making that buff very attractive. Gonna avoid writing a book, hit me up in Legit if you like.
Ok nevermind, the different is massive. 6500 base vs a 3800(1900 x 2). Even a fast cast speed is not worth dumping all divine power into that.
Hmm, I had a bit of a play with Righteous, and it was OK, and the damage was certainly decent. However, since I have a reasonable SW and an passable CW, it still felt like a clunky alternative. Thus I specced back into healing, with the Faithful tree and Divine Oracle (as I love Foresight).
For what it's worth, I find that my cleric as Faithful is pleasantly tanky, and I can overpull when solo in a way that I haven't been able to since beta. Pulling all the mobs from a 3-5 player HE is not out of the question. Killing things isn't as fast as when I was Righteous, but it's a great deal faster than in mod 4- triple divine Daunting Light is a nice bit of burst for starters.
By way of calibration, I tried doing a set of WoD dailies and then a set of IWD DV dailies. It was smooth and I didn't experience any problems. I was able to kill things faster than in mod 4, and the tankiness made me very resilient.
As a side note, I'm using High Prophet, my Miracle Healer is rotting in the bank. I can still chuck out ludicrous amounts of healing, but the DPS buff helps my personal DPS when soloing, and the group DPS in dungeons. Combined with Divine Glow and my weapon enchant (Greater Terror, since PF is fairly common now), it adds a little sparkle to group play.
Then I went in and respec'd all three of them, one for each path. Then I sent each to Sharandar - and worked my way through the initial quest put the first miniboss. All three were Paragon's for DO, but each on a different path and here's what I found through "relatively casual" play through that initial zone trail:
Virtuous:
Painfull DPS - my GF (before its reworking) wan't as painful to complete, but at least he had some Tankiness. The Virtuous path just plain sucks: Agreed: too squishy for the amount of DPS suckage it gives. I'll personally not touch the Virtuous path with a hundred-foot pole. The suckage is epic. in PvE Solo and Group. My main hate reason for this path is as you've said in OP: It takes freakin' FOREVER to down a mob. Painfully so. Otherwise I'd love this path.
Faithful:
The DPS felt a little better (and mind you: I'm measuring "DPS" in terms of TIME: How long does it take me to kill the Redcaps and miniboss, etc. It felt much tankier than Virtuous so though I still had to be careful, I felt relatively strong in terms of survivability. It felt like a really good balance between "tackiness" and DPS (killmob time it takes).
Righteous:
Holy DPS, batman. Literally. The mobs were just melting, the miniboss went down faster than than I can say "holy sh.itesters". The mobs melted so fast that they didn't get much chance to do a lot of damage (which is the main argument for DPS I s'pose. When I was ganged-up on the new default knock-back of Sunburst was a blessing. Except this path doesn't offer quite as much group support as I'd like.
My results and chosen preferences:
My main DC will be Righteous DO, only one healing encounter (Divine Glow, IIRC) - and Astral Seal on my RMB - and I have the Draconic Armor set which gives an awesome healing active bonus for groups (great for HEs and such) - the rest is all for damage. LOVING. IT.
My Second DC (currently leveling up as I've trashed my previous alt DCS previous) will go Faithful AC - specifically for the "healing" cleric - and she will be the one I delve and skirmish with to provide group support as the Faithful Capstone is amazing in that regard.
As I've said many times - I'm not a min-maxer, I play for fun and make my own judgement of things based on how it feels. And both Faithful and Righteous feel awesome - so much so that I'm going to run one DC on each.
FINALLY: it feels like the DC powers are actually granted by the Gods. Except for the Virtuous path: It feels like you pissed them off somehow.
I'll go crawl under my rock again. LOL
Righteous' Avatar automatically procs when you enter combat, and Faithful's feats automatically proc when you take damage/when your HP hits a certain threshold. The benefits of Virtuous are not immediately apparent for anyone seeking instant gratification, but set up correctly so all the most important feats are constantly proccing they're there. And as it turns out, you don't even need to use anything besides Divine Glow, which you're going to end up using anyway, to get the most out of your feats for solo PvE.
It's definitely a walking version of the old divine Astral Shield.
I'll be clear: Virtuous is epic suckage *for* *me*. LOL
I'm not saying it's a sucky path, I'm saying it's sucks for ME. In anywise, I am unspeakably happy the Devs finally gave the DC some DevLuv - no, it's not perfect, yes there are some "I don't like it" changes (personally: there is nothing I "hate").
This is the wonderful thing about path options: we each get to pick which works best for us. (I hated CW "Master of Flame" for six months until Chem wrote-up a great "here's what it is and how it works" thread - now I'm loving it). Perhaps later when some one does the same for Virtuous on DC I'll give it another go. Like I said: I'm not a min-maxer (I deal with too many numbers in my real job).
That's interesting. Virtuous was the first tree I looked at on preview since it sounded pretty good and I quite like over-time effects. I didn't really get into it and this may have simply been the result of a lack of time to test things adequately. I arguably rushed a Faithful build so I could get started playing and I'm not really 100% happy. I might have to put a bit more effort experimenting on preview. I've still not picked a path for my TR though
I even soloed two of the Drake Rider HE's on her as well as tank the Alchemist survivably, even though it took nearly 7 minutes and those Drake Rider HE's almost expired before I could finish them. That's all good and expected of my non-crit choice with her.
I had the most fun I have had in WoD so far on any character, on her last night all thanks to using Tyrt's advice on trying other powers I didn't think feasible due to, seemingly, my own self-made frustration.
[ Support Center • Rules & Policies and Guidelines • ARC ToS • Guild Recruitment Guidelines | FR DM Since 1993 ]