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Please help: Gear Score
kwsapphire
Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 671 Arc User
First, apologies if this is in the wrong forum. Mods, please move if necessary.
Main topic: Apparently I just don't understand Gear Score. I started playing during Beta Weekend #2. I took a one year break (July 2013 - July 2014), and granted I don't farm dungeons on a regular basis. However, in another thread someone said people could "open [their] wallet for $20 and get all the top-tier gear in the game." And they also implied a high GS, IIRC. So far, I don't get it.
- I transferred $55 of Zen into AD (a non-trivial amount of money IMO) to buy T2 items off the AH.
- So far I've bought the Grand Vizier Orb, Talisman, Slippers, Cap, and a couple of coalescent wards so that those items have Rank 7 enchants in them.
- Waiting on Gloves and Tunic auctions to end (I expect to lose, TBH).
- I've raised my GS from 11,750 to 12,588
Even if I win the two pending auctions, I expect my GS to be somewhere around 13K.
So how, supposedly, can I spend $20 and get a high GS?
Here's why I ask. I don't PvP and normally I wouldn't care. Except recently I teamed up with some people for the dragon fight in Rothe Valley, and then we stuck together for the Forged in Fire quest afterward. I can solo the boss in FiF, but I tend to drag him away from his spawn point (so I don't have to deal with the adds/patrol until he's dead). He takes me a couple of minutes to defeat. I watched someone with a 20K+ GS smack him down in like.. two or three hits. Clearly I am missing out on some major DPS. And this is making me less useful in dungeons, and also heroic encounters. So what am I doing wrong?
Do I need to have all my enchantments at Rank 10? Do I need three artifacts and several pieces of artifact equipment at legendary quality? How am I supposed to increase my gear score to be USEFUL during the more-difficult content?
I'm specifically referencing my Control Wizard, since she's my main. But I have seven characters, at least two more of which I'd like to make useful in harder content (Cleric and Ranger). Do I need to spend hundreds of dollars per character (not gonna happen)? Should I be farming dungeons over and over? Is there specific content I should be running that I totally missed?
I should note, my Wizard has finished the Sharandar campaign and has all the boons. She's working on Tyranny of Dragons and Dread Ring, though only has a couple of boons from those. IWD is too hard for her to solo. My Ranger will be able to handle IWD more readily, if only because she always has a Guardian Fighter to tank for her. So I don't have All the Boons yet on any of my characters. is that what I'm missing?
I appreciate your help, and thank you.
Main topic: Apparently I just don't understand Gear Score. I started playing during Beta Weekend #2. I took a one year break (July 2013 - July 2014), and granted I don't farm dungeons on a regular basis. However, in another thread someone said people could "open [their] wallet for $20 and get all the top-tier gear in the game." And they also implied a high GS, IIRC. So far, I don't get it.
- I transferred $55 of Zen into AD (a non-trivial amount of money IMO) to buy T2 items off the AH.
- So far I've bought the Grand Vizier Orb, Talisman, Slippers, Cap, and a couple of coalescent wards so that those items have Rank 7 enchants in them.
- Waiting on Gloves and Tunic auctions to end (I expect to lose, TBH).
- I've raised my GS from 11,750 to 12,588
Even if I win the two pending auctions, I expect my GS to be somewhere around 13K.
So how, supposedly, can I spend $20 and get a high GS?
Here's why I ask. I don't PvP and normally I wouldn't care. Except recently I teamed up with some people for the dragon fight in Rothe Valley, and then we stuck together for the Forged in Fire quest afterward. I can solo the boss in FiF, but I tend to drag him away from his spawn point (so I don't have to deal with the adds/patrol until he's dead). He takes me a couple of minutes to defeat. I watched someone with a 20K+ GS smack him down in like.. two or three hits. Clearly I am missing out on some major DPS. And this is making me less useful in dungeons, and also heroic encounters. So what am I doing wrong?
Do I need to have all my enchantments at Rank 10? Do I need three artifacts and several pieces of artifact equipment at legendary quality? How am I supposed to increase my gear score to be USEFUL during the more-difficult content?
I'm specifically referencing my Control Wizard, since she's my main. But I have seven characters, at least two more of which I'd like to make useful in harder content (Cleric and Ranger). Do I need to spend hundreds of dollars per character (not gonna happen)? Should I be farming dungeons over and over? Is there specific content I should be running that I totally missed?
I should note, my Wizard has finished the Sharandar campaign and has all the boons. She's working on Tyranny of Dragons and Dread Ring, though only has a couple of boons from those. IWD is too hard for her to solo. My Ranger will be able to handle IWD more readily, if only because she always has a Guardian Fighter to tank for her. So I don't have All the Boons yet on any of my characters. is that what I'm missing?
I appreciate your help, and thank you.
Post edited by kwsapphire on
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Then get an Artifact belt + Artifact main hand (From the ToD campaign), get your artifacts to epic/legendary, and get a few rank 8's.
And taadaa! you'll be at least 18K~ GS
...and then, get an artifact off-hand, replace enchantments upto at the least rank9s, and that usually is enough to get you to 19~20k
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Unless you're a GWF/GF which are the easiest classes for Gear Score
GWF have those two feats that boost your GS by a tremendous amount.
My Guardian Fighter friend is 20K with rank 5's.. friggin rank 5's lol.
Other than that you just start grinding boons and upgrading your enchants as you go.
Plus you can buy an ioun stone companion for around 500k.
You gain all stats that the stone has and all it is equipped with , though that wont show up on your GS it makes a huge difference.
Having to sacrifice a vital stat/feat just to get your GS high is not funny at all.
Pugs tend to over require GS assuming that high GS = high skilled.
BlackberryCheesecake CW
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And you need High Vizier(best for pve). And Fallen Dragon weapon set(a lot of lifesteal and easy to get).
Choose artifacts to compensate lack of stats you need.
And you can check forum for CWs pve dps builds and clarification on several class features.
Either way 15-16k GS is enough for any pve content for CW nowadays.
Forgive me, but this part made me cringe.
NEVER NEVER NEVER burn up a coal ward for anything less then a weapon or armor enchant. It takes 100 pres wards to equal a single coal ward. Even if your odds are as low as 10%, even if you fail 50 times in a row with pres wards. You still are saving money compared to a coal ward.
Everyone already gave all the advice you need here, but I'll reiterate: T2, armor reinforcement kits, at least rank 7 enchants, companions.
Things that won't raise your GS but *will* increase your power: vorpal enchant, companions with % actives, Ioun Stone/Cat.
For a build check out http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?746921-ENKO-s-Frozen-Thauma-build-%28PvE%29 It's what I was using and it worked very well until I swapped to SW.
I think that he means armor and weapon enchant, that are rank 7
I would disagree you can get "high GS" from just spending a fair amount of AD tho, it's a combination of feats (for some classes like GWF), boon stat upgrades, gear, enchants and stat bonuses. However I can understand wanting to buy some things like T2 armour off the Auction House as certain places can be hard to find good groups for that are willing to take people looking to gear up, such as Temple of Spider.
Things that are worth getting from AH to help you gear up I think tho are perhaps:
- The draconic feet/gloves to save the grind of those dragon HEs
- The rings/neck/belts from CN
- Epic crafting assets as these can be used across all characters and can help you make some of the best weapons etc
- Like you said the weapon/armour enchants
- Possibly a companion like an Ioun Stone for a CW.
That's an interesting leap in logic considering the entire discussion is about gear score, something armor and weapon enchants have no impact on.
you will not want to concentrate on fallen dragon weapon sets for mod 5, you will want to get a artifact weapon to your liking, due to the off hands coming up.
Frankly there is zero reason to open either MC or VT anymore, especially as mod 5 starts.
Someone mentioned the Stone. I'd linke to point out that augment pets do not influence your GS, they only increase your power crit etc.
Artifact weapons, yes. But Fallen Dragon is still much easier to get. And you don't need to feed it. If you are lucky you can get full set in 3 days. Consider your Artificing at lvl 20.
2morenthar
TS said that he had problems with IWD dailies. Either he needs to group every time to do those, which is annoying, or just slot some ArP and walk through.
I'll be taking a look at the build suggestions and then fiddle with my build this afternoon. If I can be a competent contributor with a 15k GS, I'm fine with that.
Thank you all for your feedback!
You bought coal wards to make rank 7's to put in HV set? First, you should have used pres wards. Also, 3 out of 4 items in your set has utility slot which you shouldn't be focusing on.
Aaaaand you should have ran DD to get your HV set free. Then used all that AD you bought to upgrade artifact/equip.
(could have farmed DD for your set in between doing dailies for boons, give it a month or so and you would be golden)
There are a lot of bitter players who say this, but it simply isn't true. Spending Zen certainly helps, but you're not going to buy that much GS that cheaply.
GS does not equal DPS. High stats help DPS and survivability, but just because you have a high GS doesn't mean you're going to be kicking butts.
High Vizier and R7s are a good place to start. The 4/4 bonus is perhaps the best buff/debuff in the game. An Ioun stone with high ranked runestones (bonding runestones are great) and decent gear in it is a must have. As someone else said: do the campaigns for boons. The Artifact Weapons, once you refine it a bit, is far better than the HV Orb. Buy companions according to their active bonuses. You don't even have to level them. The cheaper ones have stats they give you, but the best ones have effects that raise your DPS (like Wild Hunt Rider). They're better. Get your Armor Penetration to around 2K (24% Resistance Ignored is all you need in PvE any more is a waste), then get your crit and recovery between 2-3K, defense to at least 1500, and 10% life steal and dump the rest into power.
How many artifacts do you have and what level are they? Get all of your characters to lvl 60 and into IWD and you can get class artifacts. Luckily, I see you have a DC. Their sigil is the best in game for a CW. Refining artifacts gives you a lot of stats and can be done with Zen.
I don't know if you're MoF or SS or if you're a Oppressor, Thaum or Renegade so I can't tell you which feats and powers/rotations to use, but that may be the most important factor in DPS. Personally, I'd advise SS thaum. Read through the builds in the Library to find a build that suits your playstyle.
This can't be stressed enough: never EVER use coal wards for anything but weapon and armor enchants. You'll need a lesser Soul Forged the higher ranked ones don't make much difference and aren't worth the cost. Plaguefire and Terror enchants are great for boosting the whole teams DPS. If you have a high Crit score, Vorpal is the best for personal DPS boost. A GPF and HV used with an AE power like Steal Time will allow your party to just melt the mobs quickly. It's cheaper to buy lessers than make them. Use coal wards to combine 2 lessers or 2 normals or 2 greaters.
I hope this helps some.
Edit: I forgot about passives. These can make a huge difference. If you're SS, Eye of the Storm and Storm Spell are currently the best for more damage.
You did spend a lot of AD needlessly. I would advise before spending to buy, consult a more experienced player on which items are worth spending on. For example, a High Vizier Orb is a waste of AD, when you could have gone for one with a weapon set bonus (or wait to get an artifact weapon), and any cheap T2 epic weapon will suffice before getting that. You could have saved a lot of AD buying Pres. Wards to rank up to 7.
Ideally, 15k can get you set up with the right stats to hit very hard optimally, ie. around 2k in ARP and CRIT and 4-5k in PWR.
Most of those that have a high GS (such as the guy above) are using a bunch of non optimal items/build to do so just to get a higher GS number.
You could open your wallet for $20 and get a $100 million lottery jackpot. You could but it doesn't mean you would. The top tier artifacts and equipment could come from the lockboxes but there is no saying they would come from the lockboxes if you drop $20.
Besides, you also need to realize most part of the gs from the artifacts and gear doesn't come from the artifacts and gear themselves. It comes mostly from the enchantments and refinement marks and stones alone worth about a million AD is required to bump up their quality to legendary for each piece of of the gear. That doesn't even include the RP items in the offensive and defensive slots and the RP points needed to improve the artifact gear.
Some boons add to gs but they are about 200 gs each for a total of no more than 2k gs from ALL campaigns. All in all, you don't get 18k gs just from $20, and that 18k gs is hardly top tier. The more bad news is starting with Mod 5, 18k gs is not enough according to people playing the preview servers, let alone calling it "top tier".
the worst possible expenditure of zen. Since you didn't know, and you say $55 dollars is a lot to you, why didn't you ask someone first before wasting all of it on this non-sense?
$55 = 5500 zen = 2,750,000 that's what you started with:
4 piece hv = free from DD chest. the default stats + 2 piece set 450 gs total gs from this with just junk green/blues in other slots is idk 8k.
+ Ancient jewelry 4x10k ad = 1848 gs
+cheap weapon/oh (10k ah or free from chest or campaigns) brings your total to 11k gs
r5s x 11 = 110k = 1320gs = 12.3k gs
gemmed shirt/pants = 500 gs = 200k ad
total expenditure so far 270k ad total gs 12.8k
Boons = free
Sharandar 1-3 boons = 675 gs (500 if you choose ap gain instead of hp)
DR 1-3 boons = 625 gs
ToD 1-3 boons = 600 gs
total 1900 more gs
14.7k gs with r5s and 270k ad or 540 zen.
Artifacts are just shy of 1k gs each with a small investment of RP to epic and you can get 3 of them. 1 free for everyone, more free if you have multiple lvl 60 characters. If you don't have multiple characters, you can just buy cheap ones (non-ideal stats/performance, if all you care about is gs)
First artifact is free + say 100k AD in RP for epic + gmops and other marks say another 300k = 400k ad for 1k gs
2nd and 3rd lets say you buy them add 200k to each price that's 1.2mil ad for another 2k gs
So you are at 17.7k GS or so in r5s and no weapon/armor enchants.
Leaves you roughly 1mil ad left over to buy an augment with (might/allure/cat/etc). Not for GS, just for effectiveness.
- My Wizard is indeed Spellstorm Mage, Thaumaturge. I was thinking I'd need to respec my feats but after review, I still think I picked appropriate feats for my build. I do also have Storm Spell as one of my passives, but I use Orb of Imposition as the other. I find the significantly increased control duration to be very useful, especially since three out of my four encounter powers are control spells.
- My current stats (referencing those aulduron mentioned):
Armor Pen: 549 (3.7% resist ignored)
Crit: 1367 (10.4% crit chance)
Recovery: 3057 (22.4% recharge speed and action point gain)
Life Steal: 240 (1.8%)
Power: 4675 (28% bonus damage)
I am loathe to give up power and/or recovery for Crit and Armor Pen, but if the general consensus is that those stats are more important for overall DPS I'll bow to the superior knowledge.
- As far as "being able to get items for free from dungeons" - that assumes that (A) I can get into those dungeons, (B) I can complete those dungeons, and (C) I can do so during a Dungeon Delve. So far most of my efforts to run dungeons have proved useless. Most of the time I can't get the queue to pop, or if I do manage to get in one, the team is stymied by the first boss. I've completed a few epic dungeons but not many. My hope was to increase the effectiveness of my character so that she could contribute more fully in a dungeon, and hopefully increase the chances of actually completing dungeon runs.
- It turns out I didn't use any coalescent wards on regular enchantments, only on armor and weapon enchantments. I was able to use preservation wards to get a few regular enchantments up to rank 7.
- While I understand the call to mix and match armor sets for the 2 two-piece bonuses, I'd prefer to go for the four-piece bonus on Grand Vizier. It complements most of the powers I keep slotted most of the time. (Chill Strike, Steal Time, and Entangling Force.) The only encounter power I keep equipped that isn't affected by the armor is Sudden Storm.
- I have plans to sit down with someone and go over my build with a fine-toothed comb, to see where the best improvements would be. I'll update the thread with my stats and other info once that's done.
Current damage on currently slotted powers...
Magic Missile: 448-533 [though maybe I should swap for Ray of Frost at 454-540 damage?]
Storm Pillar: 1742-2070
Chill Strike: 2726-3240 [Spell Mastery]
Steal Time: 2892-3437
Entangling Force: 1914-2275
Sudden Storm: 4131-4909
Ice Knife: 8263-9818
Maelstrom of Chaos: 7459-8864
I often swap out one of my encounters for Ray of Enfeeblement during Dragon fights. While I know Entangling Force is the least amount of damage of those listed, it's also farther-ranged than Steal Time and Sudden Storm. I find I don't want to be too close to the dragon during the fight, so usually one of those gets swapped out instead. (Usually Sudden Storm, so I can still use Steal Time on adds if necessary.)
Again I appreciate all the feedback everyone, thank you!
Find a good guild that does gear runs (t1, t2, and 2.5) and you will be fine. Whether you are in a good guild, bad guild, or no guild, join the NW_Legit_Community (I think that's how it is spelled, ordered) channel which often has calls for gear/dungeon runs. That channel is fantastic as they don't get into the gear score discussion nonsense.
While there's a lot of nonsense about GS (i.e. GS is the ultimate answer), there are points in terms of what stats you should focus on in what order. I.e. for PvE try to have armor pen in the 20% to 24% area; but pvp typically goes way way higher. There are other areas as well, and you can get help (in terms of information and gear runs) from a good guild and the NW legit community.
Thank you.
Your low Life Steal is hurting your survivability, forcing you to fight at a distance. Your best control and DPS powers require you to get closer.
I would go for mostly offensive boons, except for Endless Consumption (Dread Ring).
Join NW_Legit_Community chat channel. There you will find experienced and patient people with whom to run dungeons. They don't care about your GS, though you should tell them if you're new to a dungeon.
Against a dragon, EF does nothing but build some AP and Arcane stacks. I would switch it out for Icy Rays, and probably put it in tab. CoI is probably better than Steal Time, against a dragon if you don't want to get close. Putting Chill Strike in tab makes it AE. There is no need for that against a dragon. Find a place to stand where adds don't spawn. If adds aggro you, TP toward the fighters. They probably won't even notice them. (Just don't tell them I told you to do that)
Personally, if I didn't want to get close, I'd go with RoE, Icy Rays (one of those in tab) CoI, and Chill Strike. I can get closer so I use SS instead of CS. If I were a Thaum and could get close I'd fit Icy Terrain in there.
In a dungeon or skirmish, you shouldn't overlook Icy Terrain. CoI on Tab, Steal Time, Icy Terrain and Sudden Storm (especially if feated), with Oppressive Force and Ray of Frost would be a good load out, but there are other good choices too. IT and ST are good for protecting you. If you have SS feated, that will also add chill. Orb of Imposition goes well with these. EF is good against those Drakes and Green archers in SoT and LoL.
It should look something like this: Pull with CoI, drop Icy Terrain. When they're in range, hit Steal Time, and blast with Sudden Storm. Then either use your AE daily, if appropriate, or else TP backwards then freeze the biggest mob with RF and/or drop a fully charged Storm Pillar into the crowd. Wash, rinse, repeat.
IMO, tabbed CS is best when used with Singularity (Sing still has it's uses). Most Thaums insist CoI is best used there, even after the Assailant change.
During previous dragon fights I did put Ray of Enfeeblement in Mastery, and also used Icy Rays instead of Sudden Storm. I just wasn't sure IR was doing enough damage to make it worth it. (I do usually take Chill Strike out of Mastery against dragons, though.)
I like Conduit of Ice, but it seems like such low damage compared to Entangling Force. I also love EF because it totally keeps a mob off my back (the White, Blue, and Green dragonwings/fangs/whatevers can be really painful if not chain-held..)
Thank you for the suggestions! I will add the NW_Legit_Community channel to my chat window and work there to run dungeons, and bring my guild too. (We're a pretty small guild but we go way back, most of us being former City of Heroes players.) I definitely need the help and want to learn strategies. I did manage to get into a Cragmire run on Monday night, with my ranger and two guildmates (playing GWF and GF). We had PuG cleric and another ranger. At the end my friend commented that both of the other two players were probably bots. The cleric used nothing but Lance of Faith and Punishing light the ENTIRE TIME. No heals, no Astral Seal or Astral Shield, no buffs, MAN. That sucked so bad. They also wandered off for a while, maybe on a set-path to grab a bunch of skill nodes, I dunno. Was so frustrating though. We did manage to complete the dungeon, but it was really tough going there for a while.
Also, thanks again for all the suggestions. I will play around with test-builds as outlined above on the preview shard, and see how my DPS and survivability compares.
It's actually very powerful because of the way it procs effects and stacks chill. I understand it also works amazingly with smolder for Flame CWs too.
I don't run EF though I've seen people making convincing arguments for it on tab (AoE control which clumps mobs together). My take on the CW is to not worry about controlling one thing when I could be killing all the things, except that between Steal Time and Icy Terrain, everything is largely stunned or frozen in big AoE effects anyway.
I run Conduit in mastery for AoE damage/debuff/chill. I started the habit before the Assailant rework, but it's still effective.
My own CW has the hitpoints and life steal to get very up close and personal, and I tank dragons on her if I happen to have aggro. I don't switch to a single target setup for dragons at all actually, just use my AoEs in close. A lot of the dragon HEs end up with cultist adds, so I find it more helpful to stick with what I know works well for me in that situation rather than change it up.
A very solid SS Thaum build is to simply take all the bottom tier feats up to the capstone, and Bitter Cold and Chilling Control out of Oppressor. Stuff pretty well melts... er, freezes, but dies quickly!
Sorry about declining the dungeon invite the other night, but try hitting me up again. I'm sure we could put together a party sometimes between your guild and mine.
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However, if I don't have Shard, I will typically use something else on tab, since EF on tab is a PERFECT setup for shard hits. Also, if I don't expect a lot of controllable adds, I also won't put EF on tab because it doesn't really help much there. Usually, that's like a dragon fight or other boss fight - in which case I usually put RoE on tab.
Sekhmet@kvetchus_
Guilds: Greycloaks, Blackcloaks, Whitecloaks, Goldcloaks, Browncloaks, Spiritcloaks, Bluecloaks, Silvercloaks, Black Dawn
Tredecim: The Cloak Alliance
Not necessarily. (I know nothing about the posters above and my comments are not directed at any specific person, I am speaking in a general sense). It is entirely possible to artificially inflate your GS without appreciably increasing your actual power, but I find that most people with a reasonably high GS have a decent idea of where to put their points.
18.9k is a great GS, but it is hardly the pinnacle of GS achievement. My CW is running with a 20,299 GS at present, but my build is a bit different than most (Oppressor CW focused on control and not damage) I have seen MANY CWs with a higher GS than mine that did not impress me. I have seen CWs with less GS than me do incredible things.
I disagree with the statement that "The best advice to give about GS is to not give a **** about it except for being at the minimum to enter the dungeons." You should pay attention to your GS and you should be actively looking to increase it when the increases make sense.
However, you should NOT think that a higher GS is all that matters. Do your research, look at the popular builds and learn WHY the author decided to use what gear (and what stats he was after). A character with a high gearscore, and the points in the right places, is quite impressive.