Current distribution is about what i expected, but glad to see this is backed up by data.
Yes, I suspect the people who voted the most expensive option are trolling too - probably think this whole debate is silly - have their gear and invested in RP - etc...
but I think what we _should_ do is consider everyone's perspectives and not just our own. Remember, if the game loses too many people there will be no one to play with and no income to support it, and the game will die.
I'd like to hear out their rationale for why they think that each artifact should cost $620. At the very least, it will be an interesting read.
I was going to vote zero, but the option was not there.
In a Free-to-Play game, the cost of upgrading an Artifact (or Artifact Gear) should never be expressed in terms of cash, or even the "Cash-to-Zen-to-AD-to-Refining-Stones-from-the-AH" cycle. Too many in-game economic factors are tied in to it, such as the ZAX rate, how many Zen you buy (as the more you spend in one go, the less it costs per Zen) and the availability of refining stones and the drop rate in-game.
No one should be able to short-circuit the process by spending real world cash, at any vendor. That is sort of a form of cheating, or Pay-to-"the other thing".
A better poll would be how many refining points should it take, what the drop rate of stones and gear that can be used for RP should be and how much time should it take, on average, if you play the game for 2 hours a day, like a "normal" person.
Six months?
Twelve months?
So Obsessive Grinders would do it much more quickly.
I fully admit, I am not "normal" in that sense. I have often played 8-12 hours a day, sometimes more than 20 hours. And, on some occasions, like Module 2 events where it was worthwhile, I played for 24 hours or more, having a break only to eat and perform other needed functions. It really was just that much FUN! At first...
I do take frequent breaks most of the time, and these days I play for more like 4-8 hours. But I have never lost any Celestial Coins by not playing for more than 24 hours.
Current distribution is about what i expected, but glad to see this is backed up by data.
Yes, I suspect the people who voted the most expensive option are trolling too - probably think this whole debate is silly - have their gear and invested in RP - etc...
but I think what we _should_ do is consider everyone's perspectives and not just our own. Remember, if the game loses too many people there will be no one to play with and no income to support it, and the game will die.
Imo if we want a better gaming experience we need to learn from our mistakes. This game continues to bind stuff, have incredibly rare drops, and with arguments of quests being ninja-able they're making ninja-able quests next mod. It'd be in the best interests of gaming if they did burn so that others can learn from cryptics and pwe's mistakes because clearly they're not being learnt here. It sucks for those of us putting so much effort and money into the game, but otherwise it sets a message that you can be profitable when ignoring the playerbase on most of the important issues while having bad design. I want a game to be designed for an enjoyable experience first and foremost, not money.
Legendary shouldnt be handed to you, but it shouldnt cost an arm and a leg; or 3 monthes of 24/7 grinding.
Id say an avg player who started playing say around mod 4, could make 2.5 mil in a month; some of it may be from the RNG god, but they could make 2.5 mil a month.
Thats 1 legendary, so say now we have all legendary gear slots, thats what 10 monthes to complete legendary gear. That seems reasonable to me. (the 1 per month is reasonable, having to upgrade 10+ things, seems unreasonable)
Then not including any gear resets, or new gear; which would make it lean more to unreasonable side, but ill ignore this.
I will re add this. It gives perspective and is important, IDK why that isnt understood cause its quite obvious. Without stating ones circumstances its a dart in the dark.
Ill lean to a lower amount as a f2p player. Ill lean to a higher amount if I spend alot of cash IRL on the game.
Legendary shouldnt be handed to you, but it shouldnt cost an arm and a leg; or 3 monthes of 24/7 grinding.
Id say an avg player who started playing say around mod 4, could make 2.5 mil in a month; some of it may be from the RNG god, but they could make 2.5 mil a month.
Thats 1 legendary, so say now we have all legendary gear slots, thats what 10 monthes to complete legendary gear. That seems reasonable to me.
Then not including any gear resets, or new gear; which would make it lean more to unreasonable side, but ill ignore this.
10 months per character.
That makes a difference. I'm not going to be around in ten months if I'm still working on getting my first guy to legendary.
Yah I added some brackets. If its a long grind, please stop adding more things to refine cryptic.
Agreed , I was down with it when it was two pieces, but by the time Cryptic gets done it will be "Coming soon in mod 8, get your RP ready for all new artifact mounts and companions."
.....
I would LOVE to hear from the people who think it should cost 31M AD - or maybe i'm getting trolled XD XD.
These people probably paid that much to be the first to get the legendary artifact. Now they are pissed because a week ago, a legendary artifact can be had for under 1M AD, including the cost of the rare marks.
I wasn't gonna bother with artifact equipment. Then I saw the sick low RP prices and decided to get epic ones on all my toons. Still debating whether I should spend a few bucks to get them to legendary while it still cost under 1.7M AD
0
chemboy613Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,521Arc User
I was going to vote zero, but the option was not there.
In a Free-to-Play game, the cost of upgrading an Artifact (or Artifact Gear) should never be expressed in terms of cash, or even the "Cash-to-Zen-to-AD-to-Refining-Stones-from-the-AH" cycle. Too many in-game economic factors are tied in to it, such as the ZAX rate, how many Zen you buy (as the more you spend in one go, the less it costs per Zen) and the availability of refining stones and the drop rate in-game.
No one should be able to short-circuit the process by spending real world cash, at any vendor. That is sort of a form of cheating, or Pay-to-"the other thing".
A better poll would be how many refining points should it take, what the drop rate of stones and gear that can be used for RP should be and how much time should it take, on average, if you play the game for 2 hours a day, like a "normal" person.
Six months?
Twelve months?
So Obsessive Grinders would do it much more quickly.
I fully admit, I am not "normal" in that sense. I have often played 8-12 hours a day, sometimes more than 20 hours. And, on some occasions, like Module 2 events where it was worthwhile, I played for 24 hours or more, having a break only to eat and perform other needed functions. It really was just that much FUN! At first...
I do take frequent breaks most of the time, and these days I play for more like 4-8 hours. But I have never lost any Celestial Coins by not playing for more than 24 hours.
And I do not even HAVE any Artifact Gear yet.
Of course i meant for it to include time as well, but I don't know the RP:Time ratio. If I had that information i would have added it.
Of course i meant for it to include time as well, but I don't know the RP:Time ratio. If I had that information i would have added it.
Here's a little anecdote about Time and Money in a F2P game:
We won several PvP sessions last night. My Radiant Healer AC even killed a CW!!! That HAS to be a first. Like the time she actually got a Triple Kill. I was stunned! I am sure our SW helped, though, but I got the kill shot.
But in one game, we were pretty average GS, with no Legendaries, about 12 to 15k. I think my GS was the highest for our team. We were leading 300:100 and the enemy seemed to have no clue at all. Their GWF was a tryer, but attacking three of us on Mid Base at once got him decked over and over.
I checked the other team and posted in party chat:
"They have a 19.5k CW? With five Legendaries? What the hell's going on?"
"Yeah, <charactername>" replied the other DC (two DCs and no melee is usually a disadvantage, but not in this match)
"Are they toying with us? Letting us get a good lead before they trash us?" (you win less Glory for a walkover)
"No. <Charactername> actually IS that bad. Was in my team earlier, wandering randomly with no effect."
"Is he a BOT?"
"Not with that GS. Anyway, I PM'd him to ask him to try and kill stuff, but he posted something in foreign. I replied I only spoke English, and he told me to "GO SH*T"! LOL!"
(Clearly, we were under no pressure as we were able to chat in the middle of the game)
"But how can he get 19.5k GS without having a clue how to play?"
"Money."
"Man, that is SAD..."
After I killed him with Punishing Light, Flame Strike and more Punishing Light (This is a total Healer Build, by the way, Exaltation, Astral Shield and Sunburst, but lots of stuff to boost Divinity Regeneration and 6000 Power, 3800 Recovery) I felt so sorry for him I PM'd him:
"Man, you HAVE to learn how to dodge. Spending all that money without learning how to play is just silly."
"GO SH*T!"
So it looks like it IS possible to gear up your character AND get to level 60 in very little time without ever learning how to play. If that CW had a clue, we would surely have lost.
Usually, a 9k CW can Perma-Freeze and kill my 15k AC in a few seconds, with that thing that floats me in mid-air and then the big Ice Knife thing, while frozen solid all the time. This guy was 19.5k and only seemed to use Magick Missile and that Freeze Ray - but he could not Perma-Freeze me solid like most 9k CWs can.
Must have picked the wrong Feats and Passives?
I suspect he must have had lots of XP Boosters as well. I've been playing for 9 months, and I have NO Legendaries. My highest Artifact is Rank 89 (Bloodcrystal Raven Skull made by putting two rank 59 into a Rank 1). And I avoid getting too much XP with new characters so I can AD Farm low level Skirmish Events like Blacklake Terror for as long as possible with every character I rolled.
It also gives me a chance to learn the class, as I have characters of ALL Paragon Paths for all Classes, but I only have a Swordmaster GWF and a Temptation Warlock Hellbringer. My last two slots were going to be Damnation Halfling and Fury Tiefling.
^ Oh I know *that* type from WoT. People with capstone tanks who may literally play worse than actual bots and to whom it never occurred that parking your tin can out in the open with the thin side plates towards the enemy might not be a tactically sound move...
Someone needs to form the tail end of the bell curve, I suppose.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!" pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all." looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Here's a little anecdote about Time and Money in a F2P game:
We won several PvP sessions last night. My Radiant Healer AC even killed a CW!!! That HAS to be a first. Like the time she actually got a Triple Kill. I was stunned! I am sure our SW helped, though, but I got the kill shot.
But in one game, we were pretty average GS, with no Legendaries, about 12 to 15k. I think my GS was the highest for our team. We were leading 300:100 and the enemy seemed to have no clue at all. Their GWF was a tryer, but attacking three of us on Mid Base at once got him decked over and over.
I checked the other team and posted in party chat:
"They have a 19.5k CW? With five Legendaries? What the hell's going on?"
"Yeah, <charactername>" replied the other DC (two DCs and no melee is usually a disadvantage, but not in this match)
"Are they toying with us? Letting us get a good lead before they trash us?" (you win less Glory for a walkover)
"No. <Charactername> actually IS that bad. Was in my team earlier, wandering randomly with no effect."
"Is he a BOT?"
"Not with that GS. Anyway, I PM'd him to ask him to try and kill stuff, but he posted something in foreign. I replied I only spoke English, and he told me to "GO SH*T"! LOL!"
(Clearly, we were under no pressure as we were able to chat in the middle of the game)
"But how can he get 19.5k GS without having a clue how to play?"
"Money."
"Man, that is SAD..."
After I killed him with Punishing Light, Flame Strike and more Punishing Light (This is a total Healer Build, by the way, Exaltation, Astral Shield and Sunburst, but lots of stuff to boost Divinity Regeneration and 6000 Power, 3800 Recovery) I felt so sorry for him I PM'd him:
"Man, you HAVE to learn how to dodge. Spending all that money without learning how to play is just silly."
"GO SH*T!"
So it looks like it IS possible to gear up your character AND get to level 60 in very little time without ever learning how to play. If that CW had a clue, we would surely have lost.
Usually, a 9k CW can Perma-Freeze and kill my 15k AC in a few seconds, with that thing that floats me in mid-air and then the big Ice Knife thing, while frozen solid all the time. This guy was 19.5k and only seemed to use Magick Missile and that Freeze Ray - but he could not Perma-Freeze me solid like most 9k CWs can.
Must have picked the wrong Feats and Passives?
I suspect he must have had lots of XP Boosters as well. I've been playing for 9 months, and I have NO Legendaries. My highest Artifact is Rank 89 (Bloodcrystal Raven Skull made by putting two rank 59 into a Rank 1). And I avoid getting too much XP with new characters so I can AD Farm low level Skirmish Events like Blacklake Terror for as long as possible with every character I rolled.
It also gives me a chance to learn the class, as I have characters of ALL Paragon Paths for all Classes, but I only have a Swordmaster GWF and a Temptation Warlock Hellbringer. My last two slots were going to be Damnation Halfling and Fury Tiefling.
Lol, I love this story. I am always shocked at how Cws I meet with good gear that know nothing and can't play at all. It's hillarious to me!
That's one of the reasons I wrote my guide. If you need to l2p everything is in there but a private tutor!
Someone tested for me. 3 lesser dragon hoards is about 10k rp an hour, so that's 460 hours per item. Pretty crazy IMO
It depends on RNG of course.
I farmed a foundry a couple days ago for 3 hours and got 58k RP.
And back during the double RP event I was farming all weekend and made around 14k an hr.
But even at that, I didn't sign on to farm RP in foundry to get one piece of gear to BiS, so even if it was 200 hours it would be too much for me.
Comments
I'd like to hear out their rationale for why they think that each artifact should cost $620. At the very least, it will be an interesting read.
In a Free-to-Play game, the cost of upgrading an Artifact (or Artifact Gear) should never be expressed in terms of cash, or even the "Cash-to-Zen-to-AD-to-Refining-Stones-from-the-AH" cycle. Too many in-game economic factors are tied in to it, such as the ZAX rate, how many Zen you buy (as the more you spend in one go, the less it costs per Zen) and the availability of refining stones and the drop rate in-game.
No one should be able to short-circuit the process by spending real world cash, at any vendor. That is sort of a form of cheating, or Pay-to-"the other thing".
A better poll would be how many refining points should it take, what the drop rate of stones and gear that can be used for RP should be and how much time should it take, on average, if you play the game for 2 hours a day, like a "normal" person.
Six months?
Twelve months?
So Obsessive Grinders would do it much more quickly.
I fully admit, I am not "normal" in that sense. I have often played 8-12 hours a day, sometimes more than 20 hours. And, on some occasions, like Module 2 events where it was worthwhile, I played for 24 hours or more, having a break only to eat and perform other needed functions. It really was just that much FUN! At first...
I do take frequent breaks most of the time, and these days I play for more like 4-8 hours. But I have never lost any Celestial Coins by not playing for more than 24 hours.
And I do not even HAVE any Artifact Gear yet.
Imo if we want a better gaming experience we need to learn from our mistakes. This game continues to bind stuff, have incredibly rare drops, and with arguments of quests being ninja-able they're making ninja-able quests next mod. It'd be in the best interests of gaming if they did burn so that others can learn from cryptics and pwe's mistakes because clearly they're not being learnt here. It sucks for those of us putting so much effort and money into the game, but otherwise it sets a message that you can be profitable when ignoring the playerbase on most of the important issues while having bad design. I want a game to be designed for an enjoyable experience first and foremost, not money.
Legendary shouldnt be handed to you, but it shouldnt cost an arm and a leg; or 3 monthes of 24/7 grinding.
Id say an avg player who started playing say around mod 4, could make 2.5 mil in a month; some of it may be from the RNG god, but they could make 2.5 mil a month.
Thats 1 legendary, so say now we have all legendary gear slots, thats what 10 monthes to complete legendary gear. That seems reasonable to me. (the 1 per month is reasonable, having to upgrade 10+ things, seems unreasonable)
Then not including any gear resets, or new gear; which would make it lean more to unreasonable side, but ill ignore this.
I will re add this. It gives perspective and is important, IDK why that isnt understood cause its quite obvious. Without stating ones circumstances its a dart in the dark.
Ill lean to a lower amount as a f2p player. Ill lean to a higher amount if I spend alot of cash IRL on the game.
Again this is important for perspective.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
That makes a difference. I'm not going to be around in ten months if I'm still working on getting my first guy to legendary.
Fox Stevenson - Sandblast
Oh Wonder - Without You
Do not go gentle into that good night.
Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
- Dylan Thomas
.....
These people probably paid that much to be the first to get the legendary artifact. Now they are pissed because a week ago, a legendary artifact can be had for under 1M AD, including the cost of the rare marks.
I wasn't gonna bother with artifact equipment. Then I saw the sick low RP prices and decided to get epic ones on all my toons. Still debating whether I should spend a few bucks to get them to legendary while it still cost under 1.7M AD
Of course i meant for it to include time as well, but I don't know the RP:Time ratio. If I had that information i would have added it.
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Here's a little anecdote about Time and Money in a F2P game:
We won several PvP sessions last night. My Radiant Healer AC even killed a CW!!! That HAS to be a first. Like the time she actually got a Triple Kill. I was stunned! I am sure our SW helped, though, but I got the kill shot.
But in one game, we were pretty average GS, with no Legendaries, about 12 to 15k. I think my GS was the highest for our team. We were leading 300:100 and the enemy seemed to have no clue at all. Their GWF was a tryer, but attacking three of us on Mid Base at once got him decked over and over.
I checked the other team and posted in party chat:
"They have a 19.5k CW? With five Legendaries? What the hell's going on?"
"Yeah, <charactername>" replied the other DC (two DCs and no melee is usually a disadvantage, but not in this match)
"Are they toying with us? Letting us get a good lead before they trash us?" (you win less Glory for a walkover)
"No. <Charactername> actually IS that bad. Was in my team earlier, wandering randomly with no effect."
"Is he a BOT?"
"Not with that GS. Anyway, I PM'd him to ask him to try and kill stuff, but he posted something in foreign. I replied I only spoke English, and he told me to "GO SH*T"! LOL!"
(Clearly, we were under no pressure as we were able to chat in the middle of the game)
"But how can he get 19.5k GS without having a clue how to play?"
"Money."
"Man, that is SAD..."
After I killed him with Punishing Light, Flame Strike and more Punishing Light (This is a total Healer Build, by the way, Exaltation, Astral Shield and Sunburst, but lots of stuff to boost Divinity Regeneration and 6000 Power, 3800 Recovery) I felt so sorry for him I PM'd him:
"Man, you HAVE to learn how to dodge. Spending all that money without learning how to play is just silly."
"GO SH*T!"
So it looks like it IS possible to gear up your character AND get to level 60 in very little time without ever learning how to play. If that CW had a clue, we would surely have lost.
Usually, a 9k CW can Perma-Freeze and kill my 15k AC in a few seconds, with that thing that floats me in mid-air and then the big Ice Knife thing, while frozen solid all the time. This guy was 19.5k and only seemed to use Magick Missile and that Freeze Ray - but he could not Perma-Freeze me solid like most 9k CWs can.
Must have picked the wrong Feats and Passives?
I suspect he must have had lots of XP Boosters as well. I've been playing for 9 months, and I have NO Legendaries. My highest Artifact is Rank 89 (Bloodcrystal Raven Skull made by putting two rank 59 into a Rank 1). And I avoid getting too much XP with new characters so I can AD Farm low level Skirmish Events like Blacklake Terror for as long as possible with every character I rolled.
It also gives me a chance to learn the class, as I have characters of ALL Paragon Paths for all Classes, but I only have a Swordmaster GWF and a Temptation Warlock Hellbringer. My last two slots were going to be Damnation Halfling and Fury Tiefling.
Someone needs to form the tail end of the bell curve, I suppose.
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Lol, I love this story. I am always shocked at how Cws I meet with good gear that know nothing and can't play at all. It's hillarious to me!
That's one of the reasons I wrote my guide. If you need to l2p everything is in there but a private tutor!
Goes to show you money doesn't buy skill!
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
Everything you need to know about CW:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?780981-Chem-s-CW-Compendium-Everything-you-need-to-know
It depends on RNG of course.
I farmed a foundry a couple days ago for 3 hours and got 58k RP.
And back during the double RP event I was farming all weekend and made around 14k an hr.
But even at that, I didn't sign on to farm RP in foundry to get one piece of gear to BiS, so even if it was 200 hours it would be too much for me.