Never Winter economy without BoP rule .

kaedennn

hi everyone ;

so i came from another mmo where there was no such a Bid on pick up thing and the economy was doing great .

everyone could sell his won upgraded items , gears , weapons , trade them , put them on the AH ... ,

here the only tradable thing is enchants and zen market mounts .

what if this game was running without this boP ?
what will happen ?

honestly i don't see any disavantage or less income for the company . ecxept making the game experience better for the players .

what do you think ?

rayrdan

and of course they want you to unlock every dungeons with every toons which costs you time throught dailies that give you the feeling the game is not lacking in end game contents.

frishter

It'd be much more enjoyable imo. BoP is one of the reasons that has made content heavily unfarmable since the older CN days and hence why I barely do dungeons anymore. I feel like I'm just wasting my time playing.


Thank god they've been making event stuff BoE again though.

oldbaldyone

You are talking about a game where doing the same thing over and over and over and over is considered "content". If they make everything BoE, then you no longer need to run content over and over and over for all your alts, and can just move gear around at will. Gear is never destroyed, because if you suddenly don't need it, then you just sell it to someone that does need it.

We already have an economy in which BOEs from the highest end dungeons sell for peanuts compared to what even an average player can make per day in AD. If you make everything BOE, you add to that supply of items and lessen the demand.

This will never happen unless there is a HUGE influx of actual content. Without that, the game would be basically level a guy to 60, buy 15k GS worth of gear off the AH for less than 500k tops, and then sit in PE and twiddle your thumbs (unless you like PVP).

I'm not even going to talk about how hard it would be to get dungeons going at that point

My theory to fix economy: Create a new server, let people transfer to it, the only thing you can't being being AD and gold. If you want to convert all your AD to enchants, feel free, but since nobody will have any AD on the new server, good luck selling for a while. Of course, this wont happen either.

sockmunkey

It was like this when the game launched. It also had its problems. The main issue was insane deflation. Best in slot gear was farmed so heavily it was devalued to point that any level 60 could gear up for just a few thousand AD. There was little reason to bother to run dungeons for gear when you could simply just get it for a song.

When they changed the system prices skyrocketed and it became more worthwhile to run dungeons for gear again.

We seem to have come full circle however. With the best gear being total random drops with little connection to dungeons. It has dried up the demand for the older dungeon loot dropping its value to near nothing. We don't really need a change in how items come bound or unbound. We really need a change in his gear is earned. We need less random and more "play to steadily get"

qutsemnie

kaedennn wrote: »

hi everyone ;

so i came from another mmo where there was no such a Bid on pick up thing and the economy was doing great .

everyone could sell his won upgraded items , gears , weapons , trade them , put them on the AH ... ,

here the only tradable thing is enchants and zen market mounts .

what if this game was running without this boP ?
what will happen ?

honestly i don't see any disavantage or less income for the company . ecxept making the game experience better for the players .

what do you think ?

It isn't just BoP or BoE. Most, but not all, BoP items have BoE counter parts that are much rarer. When you examine the mechanism from afar the BoP items are as common as they are because they are BoP. If they were turned into BoE they would be rarer. As it is now this has worked pretty well for Neverwinter, and only really gets wonky when they try to move away from it. The whole idea of BoP is to make it feasible to "play your way to uber" faster than you might otherwise if everything was BoE.

It is difficult to know what items you have in mind specifically. The T2.5 dungeon system strayed a tad from the T2 loot, and imo the T2 loot system was exactly right.

hefisdo

If there was no BoP a guy getting here with $160 would be able to buy anything that's BiS.

And no, it isn't the company that's getting this money. In that way, AD would become much more interesting than Zen.

luxark

hefisdo wrote: »

If there was no BoP a guy getting here with $160 would be able to buy anything that's BiS.

And? Now they are only buying nearly anything that is BiS including full campaigns or the items needed for those plus overpowered companions and enchants.

But, well, iam not sure if i think this is bad, considered the crappy RNG.

kaedennn

oldbaldyone wrote: »

You are talking about a game where doing the same thing over and over and over and over is considered "content". If they make everything BoE, then you no longer need to run content over and over and over for all your alts, and can just move gear around at will. Gear is never destroyed, because if you suddenly don't need it, then you just sell it to someone that does need it.

We already have an economy in which BOEs from the highest end dungeons sell for peanuts compared to what even an average player can make per day in AD. If you make everything BOE, you add to that supply of items and lessen the demand.

This will never happen unless there is a HUGE influx of actual content. Without that, the game would be basically level a guy to 60, buy 15k GS worth of gear off the AH for less than 500k tops, and then sit in PE and twiddle your thumbs (unless you like PVP).

I'm not even going to talk about how hard it would be to get dungeons going at that point

My theory to fix economy: Create a new server, let people transfer to it, the only thing you can't being being AD and gold. If you want to convert all your AD to enchants, feel free, but since nobody will have any AD on the new server, good luck selling for a while. Of course, this wont happen either.

True .

i forgot something , that games where there is no BoE/BoP there is the chance of destroying your gear/stuff/ ....

which happen in 90% of the time without using protection stones (blue wards here ) and the lvl was much higher than 60 [ i was 173 and still grinding for the 185 cap].

well it is a different mechanism/gameplay ,
so maybe when NeverWiner devs decide to rise the lvl cap ^^

chemboy613

The only way they could do this is if the content was hard. Say top .1% of players could actually farm. They can't design content like that - so fail.

frishter

hefisdo wrote: »

If there was no BoP a guy getting here with $160 would be able to buy anything that's BiS.

And no, it isn't the company that's getting this money. In that way, AD would become much more interesting than Zen.

We have the exchange. That means people can buy AD from cryptic or from ad sellers and buy older t2/1 gear that is still BiS for pve (pvp could have been bought recently) as well as artifact equipment (minus the main hand which is easy to get), artifacts, enchantments and as much rp as you desire. There's really nothing stopping someone to buy BiS anyway, but there is a lot to stop the ones who don't have such a high budget from farming. The casuals are ok if they're fine with the every now and then match, those of us that want to dedicate time to continue playing are kind of let down from the lack of farming options.

jondbx

qutsemnie wrote: »

It isn't just BoP or BoE. Most, but not all, BoP items have BoE counter parts that are much rarer. When you examine the mechanism from afar the BoP items are as common as they are because they are BoP. If they were turned into BoE they would be rarer.

I must be playing a different game than you because after doing VT and MC and IWD on 7 different characters, I found ALL the BoP items to be extremely rare and frustrating to get.

Even if they were made BoE they are more than rare enough.......

jondbx

hefisdo wrote: »

If there was no BoP a guy getting here with $160 would be able to buy anything that's BiS.

And no, it isn't the company that's getting this money. In that way, AD would become much more interesting than Zen.

That is the dangerous path they decided to walk down. Make it so you need to spend $5000 (which very few will do) to get a new character properly equipped causing 95% of new players that try the game to quit. I see the churn of players in my guild and friends list. Not many new players stick with this game for more than a couple of months.

kaedennn

chemboy613 wrote: »

The only way they could do this is if the content was hard. Say top .1% of players could actually farm. They can't design content like that - so fail.

donjons are hard for 5 men without strategy, but , we are overgeared and overepowered for them now with all that new gear/boons -_-

fantasycharacter

jondbx wrote: »

That is the dangerous path they decided to walk down. Make it so you need to spend $5000 (which very few will do) to get a new character properly equipped causing 95% of new players that try the game to quit. I see the churn of players in my guild and friends list. Not many new players stick with this game for more than a couple of months.

Ya definitely.

If prices were reasonable I would actually purchase some stuff with real money. There's only a handful of reasonably priced items within the game though.

myowmyow

kaedennn wrote: »

here the only tradable thing is enchants and zen market mounts.

Incorrect. There are many other tradable items, such as many blue and purple equipment items that drop from bosses (but not all of it is tradable).

Example: All Draconic equipment, except the off-hand items, are fully tradable, as long as you don't equip it first, of course . . .

rashylewizz

frishter wrote: »

It'd be much more enjoyable imo. BoP is one of the reasons that has made content heavily unfarmable since the older CN days and hence why I barely do dungeons anymore. I feel like I'm just wasting my time playing.


Thank god they've been making event stuff BoE again though.

This.

@OP, you should've been in this game in 2013. Players were farming dungeons non-stop. Castle Never and even tier 2 dungeons were addicting during dungeon delves just because of how much money everyone earned.

A new player was able to legit go into this game, farm tier 1-2 dungeons and work up to the more difficult ones for better loot. It was easy to get rich through legit farming PVE a long while back.

Today, that really isn't the case unfortunately for a variety of reasons.

kaedennn

myowmyow wrote: »

Incorrect. There are many other tradable items, such as many blue and purple equipment items that drop from bosses (but not all of it is tradable).

Example: All Draconic equipment, except the off-hand items, are fully tradable, as long as you don't equip it first, of course . . .

-_- its not about mentioning all tradables item , even so , im talking about upgradable stuff that u wear then sell .

and its definitely about discovering faults !

beckylunatic

Zen store mounts aren't even tradeable, so I think you're misunderstanding some stuff.

And yes, enchants are pretty much the only thing that you can trade after having used them. Bags of holding are the only other exception that springs to mind.

kaedennn

beckylunatic wrote: »

Zen store mounts aren't even tradeable, so I think you're misunderstanding some stuff.

And yes, enchants are pretty much the only thing that you can trade after having used them. Bags of holding are the only other exception that springs to mind.

yeah true ,
i was talking about mounts we get from lockboxes which you open them from keys that you buy from zen market .
and i could be confused too

PS : can you please stop with errors detecting ? i think everyone understood what i was talking about .

beckylunatic

Well, you can't equip one of those mounts and then sell it afterwards either, only if you've not bound it.

jondbx

rashylewizz wrote: »

This.

@OP, you should've been in this game in 2013. Players were farming dungeons non-stop. Castle Never and even tier 2 dungeons were addicting during dungeon delves just because of how much money everyone earned.

A new player was able to legit go into this game, farm tier 1-2 dungeons and work up to the more difficult ones for better loot. It was easy to get rich through legit farming PVE a long while back.

Today, that really isn't the case unfortunately for a variety of reasons.

and that is how a game should be designed and it was fun back then, since you knew if you got a drop it was worth something.

Now, almost everyone is running eLoL and the chance to make some big bucks is slim to none.

sockmunkey

jondbx wrote: »

since you knew if you got a drop it was worth something.

That was for maybe the first month. Prices crashed quickly. I recall, before the big change that made more drops bound, I was able to buy 3 full T2 armor sets, for my various characters, for under 100k AD total.

Clearly the people farming drops at that time where not getting much for their effort.

rashylewizz

sockmunkey wrote: »

Clearly the people farming drops at that time where not getting much for their effort.

Yes because people are getting more profit nowadays..... /sarcasm

sockmunkey

rashylewizz wrote: »

Yes because people are getting more profit nowadays..... /sarcasm

I didn't say it was any better now. But it wasn't some perfect profit wonderland before either. Right before they made the bind changes prices were pitifully low.

rollingonit

Was making good AD/Zen conversion then. Even with AD prices low, you could make as much zen cause the exchange was no where near cap. I remember that clearly cause I was one of the first to question on the forums about the GG stuff going BoP.

It would of never lasted though. So I cant say it was wholly unnecessary.

It was just guaranteed AD then. I would do like 4 entire GGs a day back then. And make as much as I would now in a week, doing bunches of randomness they now have setup.