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Worried about new TR changes
keobr09
Member Posts: 0 Arc User
NWO hates TR so much for no reason.
Rogues was supposed to be the unrivaled 1v1 DPS burst and continued damage, with more tankiness than any other DPS ranged class but now...
to become even worse on PvE... they're returning One-hits again but cutting the only thing that made us alive, our perma/semi-stealth build. How are we supposed to fight dungeons, take on boss and even kill some agro?
Is only me or the mod5 Exec is just a "Stealth in, LB, run... stealth again" combo?
Rogues was supposed to be the unrivaled 1v1 DPS burst and continued damage, with more tankiness than any other DPS ranged class but now...
to become even worse on PvE... they're returning One-hits again but cutting the only thing that made us alive, our perma/semi-stealth build. How are we supposed to fight dungeons, take on boss and even kill some agro?
Is only me or the mod5 Exec is just a "Stealth in, LB, run... stealth again" combo?
Post edited by keobr09 on
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That being said, I'm also worried the TR isn't getting the punch it needs to be good on PVE again. It's really hard for TRs on live to get great success in HEs around the zones.
Second so far their track record when play testing is done is better than when its dome in house. Let the process run its course .
I have a free suggestions . Play on test try things how you do them on live. Then post a feedback.
So I am mi scoundrel I had itc bns lashing blade encounters I picked executioner path and could not finish iwd he.
This is useful information there's nothing wrong with it.
After that try different combination of powers and see what works then tell debs what got the most success.
The important part is its a game with alot of complex parts they need data from all playstyles.
I will leave you with a question... did you pick MI exe and learn to love df because it was fun? Or because it was mechanically the only working choice and you put up with df because of the damage? There's no right or wrong answer here.
Mod 5 will still have permas, I've met a really good TR on preview (i think he's on page 1 or 2 and he's very lax
BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
CheeseCake House
I do not get the impression that the OP is speaking from any experience on preview Test Server whatsoever, but rather speaking from their own opinion which has festered based on hearsay rumors from around the forums.
@OP: PRO TIP: Copy your character over to preview and try actually playing it.
THEN: Report your genuine impression in the official feedback thread.
YES: The Devs actually do read that thread and the community has voice.
There already have been some changes made to Clerics and Rogues this week based on community feedback and requested changes.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
YES. See how manny people already left/re-rolled another class due that! TR is the most FUN class to play, yet is the weakest on PvE. Whats the point on having a class that NOBODY wants on Dungeons? how are we supposed to deal with that?
I ALREADY tested my Exec build on Preview Shard. Great burst indeed, GREAT damage. But now what? a boss one-shot us because we can't be perma-stealthed. An agro takes 60% of our HP away if we make a slight mistake. If they kept the stealth as how they currently are, then TR would be perfect again. Why they can't keep it?
TR is supposed to have the BEST damage. In every single game the Rogues/Assasins has the biggest burst. Why on NWO only, CW has much more overall damage, best surviabilty, Stamina... a GF is unkillable, a HR does almost everything TR can but much more safe... etc.
I spent almost a year and even some cash on my TR, thats why i feel sad. Because when i started it was GREAT. We was requested on dungeons, made decent PvP, etc. but they keep ****ting on us ever since mod 2
TRs being low in party preference has nothing to do with class design. It's the dungeon/raid/PvE content design that is the problem.
They can't keep the stealth as it is, because the whole point of the changes are directed towards getting rid of the stupid passive "spam at-wills from stealth", which so many people THINK is PvE.
FYI, that's not PvE. That's simply hitting test dummies that are reskinned to look like mobs. The big bad looking test dummy with a big purple question mark over his head, doing nothing, not being able to fight back, or even move around, while you just stand right next to it and hitting it...
Is this your definition of "PvE"? For me, that's "PvD - player versus dummy".
The new patches have us using different tactics per paths. If anything a lot of combat action is involved, and it requires you to divide your attention between survival and attack, when to use powers from stealth for max damage, or wait it out for defense/power recharge.
People are so much used to the passive, "stealth, stand next to mob, at-will at-will at-will at-will at-will at-will at-will at-will at-will at-will at-will at-will at-will at-will restealth at-will at-will at-will at-will at-will at-will at-will at-will at-will.." bullchi*.... that it turns out a lot of them don't know how to fight when they actually have to use powers and dodges and movements.
Your assessment of classes are wrong.
They didn't do anything. It is what they did NOT do that is the problem.
People don't care what TRs could do, because by mod2, dungeons like CN were already cleared, many people got gear and stats that massively overtook the dungeon content. Compared to that, the developers still tried to cater for newbies and casual players, and hence kept the dungeon difficulty so very easy, even on Epic levels.
The result?
By mod2, it wouldn't have mattered if TRs were damage kings. DPS wasn't what people wanted anymore. What they wanted was fastest clearing time for more loot. By this time, the GWF-CW-CW-CW-DC parties were already the standard. The "steamroller" team made possible, because dungeon mobs are easy. Aggro everything, CC everything, mass AoE everything and move on to the boss in like 10 minutes. (not counting all the running around)
It's got nothing to do with how TRs are doing. It's got EVERYTHING to do with poor dungeon design with zero creativity that makes it ideal to just stack the party with CWs, have 1 meatshield and 1 DC for insurance. Under this conditions, TRs won't be required even if we could 1-shot every epic grade henchmen mob.
If you want to complain, complain for the better and keep requesting for better, more difficult dungeons where classes other than GWF/DC/CWs actually have a role.
[EDIT: Just for example, in other games, many dungeons have very powerful, strong bosses which require the players to shut down its casting -- or else the powers could seriously jeopardize the team and cause team wipes. Sometimes even lower grade mobs can do that.
In many cases there are also CC resistant mobs, mobs with strong magic resistances and etc.. -- basically 'caster killers', which tend to go straight to the wizards or healers. Usually the team's tank is busy grabbing the aggro from the main lieutenant mob. Magic casters can't survive against swarm of these mobs alone -- and its in these parts where the rest of the team can come in handy.
In Neverwinter? Team wipe? Intelligent mobs? LoL. Who the hell needs HRs or GFs or TRs? In NW, when the aggro spikes and mobs swarm the CW, the CW can just one-shot AoE most of them. They certainly don't need any help from HR powers, nor do they need supportive smokebombs from TRs. They don't need anything. The game's easy. The mobs are easy.
Change that, then, and only then, people start looking for other classes.]
[EDIT2: Let's think the devs make a elite-grade dungeon with very good loots, with mid-bosses and final bosses Beholders -- which function properly as described in the D&D tradtion, the powerful and deathly mob it is with frontal magic immunity. Let's see if the other magic classes or GWFs hold up to that without other classes.
Constant debuffing and death rays to shield-less GWFs that cannot block attacks, making it weak and vulnerable...Magic immunity when facing the casters...High intelligence, therefore tendency to shake aggro and actively target casters unless the tank constantly re-applies aggro...
So the GWF can't do the meat-shielding in front of it, only a GF could properly tank it with its shield -- as well as keep the aggro onto itself so it doesn't face the casters too frequently (but will still forcibly shake aggro at times)... CW/DCs need to keep moving to the back side to do any damage or heals, otherwise their magic goes *poof*... will they still be able to put up so much damage, when the best reliable sources of DPS would be HRs hitting it from afar, or TRs that don't have to draw aggro on itself?
* if a GWF draws aggro on it as a tank, the Beholder will keep debuff and it can't do the invincible "hulk-smash" thing... and the CWs/DCs constantly need to move around, as much as melees, otherwise it can't do anything... but the GWF can't hold the aggro because he can't stand up to all the death rays without a shield.. so the beholder spins around targeting CWs and DCs.. who can't use magic nor can heal because the Beholder keeps facing them...
...the 'standard' GWF-CW-CW-CW-DC party = PHAIL
People will be actively looking for GFs, TRs and HRs in a dungeon like this. Role diversion in NW is weak because most dungeons currently don't need any different roles than the heals, AoE deals and meatshields. You get my point.]
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
first u cant even enter second is for pros only.
its funny how people say perma is easy lol.
in mod 4 there is only 3 perma stealth trs i fought in 500 pvp matches.
and i know them by name
dinter,nannersOG ,tairev
if its so easy where are they loool.
the rest use glyphs
once u beat top cw with glyph df build u can say glyph tr is easy to play
on second tought beat any top pvp class with glyph tr then you can speak.
but back to next mod .
u people fail to think ahead.
what is atwill that will be used the most ?
gloaming cut from stealth
so most will take extra stealth feats,profound gear,dodge feats,dodge stealth feats
coz u need to dodge after every gloaming cut.
plus shadow strike
and what do u get then ?
gloaming cut perma - nastyest perma some off them u will not see in entire match
so instantly there will be army off perma ,semi perma trs without them even realising they play one
single gloaming cut 10k another one bammmmmmm pug is dead and will never seen it coming
but will this make tr viaBLE IN DUNGEON ?
or in high end pvp ?
no idea but i do know it will be QQ like u never seen before from pugs
"he killed me i never seen it coming"
hehehehehe
so u have every right to be worried
Where do you get the December launch from? I could imagine it being a lot sooner than that.
and you could be right. Just wanted to make sure I'd not missed the announcement.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?330011-Welcome-to-NeverwinterPreview!
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
hmm maybe
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
they're always people out there testing things.
BlackberryCheesecake CW
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
CheeseCake House
Never.
TRs are supposed to have the best CRITICAL DAMAGE, for a Surprise, Sneak Attack/Backstab.
They should have the highest Critical Chance and the Highest Critical Severity, if in Stealth or when having Combat Advantage.
But they should never be completely invisible all the time in PvP.
But they are going to get Guaranteed Crits when in Stealth, which they should.
They may also get it for Combat Advantage for a Surprise, Rear Attack, Sneak Attack/Backstab if unseen, even if not in Stealth.
I think they should have a bonus to base Critical Chance and Critical Severity as part of the class design.
And they should also have a bonus to Deflection Chance, as well as the +25% Deflection Severity.
That is so amusing.
So, that guy crusher puts up all that whine and tantrum in the feedback thread without having tested things out even once, against a real, live player. Where does he get all the nonsense crapshi* info about new TRs sucking? From his visions?
No wonder he so full of shi*. trololllololololol
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
You have a lot of useful ideas and testing experiences, but it isn't useful to assume so much about someone else just because you don't agree with their opinion.
Faster attacks and more dodges would help with that.
3. Well to mobility that dodge is 50% longer which is very good. While it comes to survivability if you won't explain them 24/7 they will leave tr as naked in survivability as they are now.
Asha-DC(Faithful-Anointed Champion)
Vilgefortz-CW(Thaumaturge-balance)
I promise you well geared scoundrels will dominate in mod 5.
Whisperknife or Master Infiltrator, it won't matter.
In mod 5 scoundrel can use flurry as they please, and for every hit that is critical they will daze the enemy for 2 seconds!
This also means that a scoundrel can go stealth and use blitz to area daze players or monsters!
Go and test my brother of the shadows and see what awaits us!
thats funny coz you just test stuff i never saw u in real live pvp since the start off the game
courage breaker is more of a control skill than a damage skill..
Use courage breaker to catch someone and kill them manually not to kill them with the daily alone.
↑ This, basically. If you want to do massive damage, use a daily that does.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Gee, you think?
Try looking up some of his posts and see where he comes from, then you'll understand my general disdain towards him and his ilk. The types who spread around the doom and gloom negativity without offering any real info or opinions.
(ps) he doesn't do any testing. he has no idea what he's talking about
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
It doesn't work that way.
It procs only once in 5s, the condition being either a on a crit or a back hit, and the changes in TRs mean most people who've adapted to it have a significantly lower crit chance than in live. So, it is reasonable to expect that one of the hits along attacks 1, 2, or 3 will crit and therefore cause a short daze - but not being a stun, anyone who is unwilling to be hit can easily back away from DF.
However, in terms of defense, DF might be useful against the classes that don't want to back away and keep fighting in melee range -- the GWFs/GFs, particulary. When in a tight spot without much escape, and without any other choice, spamming DF as self-defense might work against a GWF/GF that's latched onto you. I'll see if I can test that one to see if we can really 'brawl' with it.
It does. Although quite short.
Yes, testing would be wise and highly recommended.
I don't see the Scoundrel dominating, at least not after the changes settle in and people adapt, but in the initial opening stages of Live, there is going to be a huge ruckus when people meet it for the first time, yes.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'