ok do damage as thaum/rene but dont have any control ok? or get a bit, like 0.5 sec ?(like DR on unstoppable was <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> up)
roots are useless, or are you really trying to compare HR roots with CW CC ? cw has dodges too, and the "speed" SW and gwf has is just a replacement for dodge, and unstoppable just compensates the lack of range(its not like it gives DR anymore or anything)
Speed is the key nowadays!
SWs(TT) and GWfs(intimidation) are doing major damage because they and almost finish the battle while CWs are still far away and they lack the ranged tools like shard since mod4...
The problem with this idea is that it makes the effect of stacking certain stats less predictive if they sometimes apply and sometimes not, and leads to some stats being favored, reducing potential build diversity. This is one of the big issues with things like glyphs and Piercing Blade -- they were/are a disincentive to stacking Defense or Deflect and an incentive to just stack hit points. And on the other hand, it would be an incentive to just stack Power rather than Armor Penetration.
CWs do need a boost in PvP, but ignoring stats like this is not the way. Just boosting single-target damage or burst too much also isn't going to work; that just leads to imbalance against squishy characters. The main issue for CWs is that their defenses are severely compromised against a few classes, meaning CWs can't really fight a war of attrition. GWFs and GFs are able to all but ignore CW cc; HRs are able to interrupt a lot on top of their other defenses, which can also negate CW teleports; TRs get their cc negation from stealth or ITC.
I think what CWs need, if anything, is a boost to their ability to CC some of the other classes, or a boost to their reactive defenses like teleport. The problem with the former is that being constantly CCed isn't fun at all for opponents. The latter could potentially invalidate much of the ability of melee classes to land hits, but that just makes for symmetry with the melee classes' CC immunity features and ability to negate gaps.
It also doesn't help CWs that Repel can still frequently produce nothing more than a stunted stun.
I think you got it right, but to me after playing tremendous time in PVP in the game and in the testing server, I’m in a conclusion that the main problem for CW is our spells casting time. Can the developers please……….. take down the casting time of our spells -50% minimum (from around 2 seconds to 1 second or less). They take so long to cast that we cannot properly play PVP. The casting time was implement for PVP propose I’m sure but now it’s like we are in slow motion when it comes to casting. HR and GF assaults are so much quicker (fast as a bullet) compare to our casting time that the fight is almost impossible to win because they are always hiting us before we can complete our cast. TR have all the time to disappear when they see we’re casting, GWF have all the time to wait and then use Unstoppable while they see we’re casting. It won’t change or add any PVE balance but it would improve PVP feel and balance to a certain satisfaction over the frustrations of being constantly interrupted while were trying to play. That change can be done very easily and I think will resolve a lot of the obvious PVP unbalance against CW in the new module to come.
The problem with this idea is that it makes the effect of stacking certain stats less predictive if they sometimes apply and sometimes not, and leads to some stats being favored, reducing potential build diversity. This is one of the big issues with things like glyphs and Piercing Blade -- they were/are a disincentive to stacking Defense or Deflect and an incentive to just stack hit points. And on the other hand, it would be an incentive to just stack Power rather than Armor Penetration.
CWs do need a boost in PvP, but ignoring stats like this is not the way. Just boosting single-target damage or burst too much also isn't going to work; that just leads to imbalance against squishy characters. The main issue for CWs is that their defenses are severely compromised against a few classes, meaning CWs can't really fight a war of attrition. GWFs and GFs are able to all but ignore CW cc; HRs are able to interrupt a lot on top of their other defenses, which can also negate CW teleports; TRs get their cc negation from stealth or ITC.
I think what CWs need, if anything, is a boost to their ability to CC some of the other classes, or a boost to their reactive defenses like teleport. The problem with the former is that being constantly CCed isn't fun at all for opponents. The latter could potentially invalidate much of the ability of melee classes to land hits, but that just makes for symmetry with the melee classes' CC immunity features and ability to negate gaps.
It also doesn't help CWs that Repel can still frequently produce nothing more than a stunted stun.
I do agree with you on this. But on part that CWs do need more defence mechanisms that require skill - like teleport. Having perma Controlled and killed in it is no fun really. So 2nd path is really better and askes for skill rather then dummy one rotation kill.
This will also fit better in paradigm that CW should have control or damage but not both at the same time. So if you pick contol - go do that but you will need to stop playing rembo style and start more team work. If you pick damage as other side - yeah you can kill opponent but not to be killed itself be sure to show some skill in dodge/teleport to avoid atacks.
Imho but idea looks good to me - more skill and less one rotation kill.
ok do damage as thaum/rene but dont have any control ok? or get a bit, like 0.5 sec ?
CW needs both decent damage AND CC for PvP, sorry man. If they lack CC but have burst, the devs will never allow us enough of it to kill a GWF GF or HR. If we had good CC but lack burst, there will be either COUNTLESS complaints in the forums because "locked down" or we will just prolong our survivability for a mere 2-3 seconds more before dying. Not to mention classes have their own anti-CC mechanics and CW has nothing to penetrate through immunities.
So we need both CC and DPS, but in some balanced fashion, where we can kill all classes (if skilled and geared) and not fully lock them down or nuke them to hell in one rotation.
This is why CW is a hard thing to balance, cause you cannot take DPS or CC from it without making the class irrelevant outside pure support role.
CW needs both decent damage AND CC for PvP, sorry man. If they lack CC but have burst, the devs will never allow us enough of it to kill a GWF GF or HR. If we had good CC but lack burst, there will be either COUNTLESS complaints in the forums because "locked down" or we will just prolong our survivability for a mere 2-3 seconds more before dying. Not to mention classes have their own anti-CC mechanics and CW has nothing to penetrate through immunities.
So we need both CC and DPS, but in some balanced fashion, where we can kill all classes (if skilled and geared) and not fully lock them down or nuke them to hell in one rotation.
This is why CW is a hard thing to balance, cause you cannot take DPS or CC from it without making the class irrelevant outside pure support role.
they could make it a 2v2 class like DC. smth like pure cc support for some dps class or dps support for some high cc like GF
they could make it a 2v2 class like DC. smth like pure cc support for some dps class or dps support for some high cc like GF
Well this is the place where CW is now, and it's a disadvantage to the team if you have too many of these useless support classes.
The game is 5vs5 however, and it has 3 nodes. You will need to body a node in a 1vs1 situation very often, trust me, because you cannot expect people from a 2vs2 at mid to leave it and babysit you at home vs some monster HR that overhealed everything you nuked it with or some perma-immune to CC GF or GWF that hit like trucks.
The CW should not require babysitting against any class. If you're geared and skilled, you should be able to put up a very good fight with a good chance to win.
Well this is the place where CW is now, and it's a disadvantage to the team if you have too many of these useless support classes.
The game is 5vs5 however, and it has 3 nodes. You will need to body a node in a 1vs1 situation very often, trust me, because you cannot expect people from a 2vs2 at mid to leave it and babysit you at home vs some monster HR that overhealed everything you nuked it with or some perma-immune to CC GF or GWF that hit like trucks.
The CW should not require babysitting against any class. If you're geared and skilled, you should be able to put up a very good fight with a good chance to win.
atm i see DC as the only pure support
the problem with existing cw ist that it will either instagib squishy/low geared ppl or be useless against tanks that can live through the damage, that was the main idea behind the semi-piercing damage
the problem with existing cw ist that it will either instagib squishy/low geared ppl or be useless against tanks that can live through the damage, that was the main idea behind the semi-piercing damage
Yeah, and I support your idea, but it would need to be very carefully done and applied, because otherwise it will be yet another Assailing Force episode leading to massive QQ and nerfs that make the class nearly useless - as it is the case now.
By the way we can't really instagib alone people at same GS if properly built for PvP, with 40-50K HP, not even squishies. I was in a game yesterday where I fought a BiS CW 3 times and I counted about 2-4 rotations and a daily from each of us necessary to burn through our HP (with shield on mastery). If people dodge adequately, they will live long enough.
The "problems" arise when we fight low HP characters without good PvP build. For example, I have 43K HP, 20% Deflect, 31% DR, and many times I use Shield as well. You cannot come with 25K HP that I see pugs having on PvP and expect to survive PvP builds.
The "problems" arise when we fight low HP characters without good PvP build. For example, I have 43K HP, 20% Deflect, 31% DR, and many times I use Shield as well. You cannot come with 25K HP that I see pugs having on PvP and expect to survive PvP builds.
Well this is the place where CW is now, and it's a disadvantage to the team if you have too many of these useless support classes.
The game is 5vs5 however, and it has 3 nodes. You will need to body a node in a 1vs1 situation very often, trust me, because you cannot expect people from a 2vs2 at mid to leave it and babysit you at home vs some monster HR that overhealed everything you nuked it with or some perma-immune to CC GF or GWF that hit like trucks.
The CW should not require babysitting against any class. If you're geared and skilled, you should be able to put up a very good fight with a good chance to win.
That's what I'm thinking to.
Can you give me your opinion regarding a reply I've made yesterday saying I’m in a conclusion that the main problem for CW is our spells casting time. Can the developers please……….. take down the casting time of our spells -50% minimum (from around 2 seconds to 1 second or less). They take so long to cast that we cannot properly play PVP. The casting time was implement for PVP propose I’m sure but now it’s like we are in slow motion when it comes to casting. HR and GF assaults are so much quicker (fast as a bullet) compare to our casting time that the fight is almost impossible to win because they are always hiting us before we can complete our cast. TR have all the time to disappear when they see we’re casting, GWF have all the time to wait and then use Unstoppable while they see we’re casting. It won’t change or add any PVE balance but it would improve PVP feel and balance to a certain satisfaction over the frustrations of being constantly interrupted while were trying to play. That change can be done very easily and I think will resolve a lot of the obvious PVP unbalance against CW in the new module to come.
Can you give me your opinion regarding a reply I've made yesterday saying I’m in a conclusion that the main problem for CW is our spells casting time.
Yes, casting time is a HUGE issue to the CW. Yes, very dangerous powers such as Frontline, Anvil, Disruptive/Boar Charge/Fox Shift, CAGI/Daring fire off almost instantly requiring anticipation and many times counting the remaining cooldown, while you can dodge Entangle and Chill Strike based on animation. Yes dailies such has Shocking or WoB are unavoidable or near instantaneous, while even a bad player can dodge an Ice Knife,sometimes just based on sound FX alone, and Oppressive Force can be dodged as well.
However.
Sadly, I think CW casting times are OK. The real issue is with the near-instant powers the other classes have. We're supposed to be able to dodge stuff based on animation/sound, not by anticipation.
But since I doubt other classes will get nerfs to their animation time, the only remaining solution would be to make CW casts near instant such as FLS and Disruptive and make PvP even worse for everyone, I suppose... sigh.
I'd say bad idea cause basically a PvP CW would be able to completely forget about ArP and boost tankiness on top of shield, dealing high DPS while focusing on tankiness.
Quite simply, PvE is mostly AoE, PvP is single target. So you can, if needed (and it's not needed) boost single target DPS and lower damage on AoE.
Also, if you do so then red glyphs i want them fully gone.
Also, you can tune powers and feats to work differently on players and mobs. Like GWF prones becoming stuns on players.
The solution is, and will always be, to make powers work differently in PvE and in PvP.
Not adding more <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> unresistable damage or broken enchants. Unresistable damage is so stupid i won't even comment it. Must be gone.
You make your build balancing survivability and DPS, the enemy does the same. And if the enemy is taky, then you deal less damage to him.
Else, please, give tanks a defensive mechanic that completely ignores ArP and stats and makes the user only take, let's say, 1k damage per encounter hit, no more. How does this sound.
Seriously, stats and build should always make a difference. Any mechanic that ignores them is broken and not needed...
Comments
Speed is the key nowadays!
SWs(TT) and GWfs(intimidation) are doing major damage because they and almost finish the battle while CWs are still far away and they lack the ranged tools like shard since mod4...
I think you got it right, but to me after playing tremendous time in PVP in the game and in the testing server, I’m in a conclusion that the main problem for CW is our spells casting time. Can the developers please……….. take down the casting time of our spells -50% minimum (from around 2 seconds to 1 second or less). They take so long to cast that we cannot properly play PVP. The casting time was implement for PVP propose I’m sure but now it’s like we are in slow motion when it comes to casting. HR and GF assaults are so much quicker (fast as a bullet) compare to our casting time that the fight is almost impossible to win because they are always hiting us before we can complete our cast. TR have all the time to disappear when they see we’re casting, GWF have all the time to wait and then use Unstoppable while they see we’re casting. It won’t change or add any PVE balance but it would improve PVP feel and balance to a certain satisfaction over the frustrations of being constantly interrupted while were trying to play. That change can be done very easily and I think will resolve a lot of the obvious PVP unbalance against CW in the new module to come.
I do agree with you on this. But on part that CWs do need more defence mechanisms that require skill - like teleport. Having perma Controlled and killed in it is no fun really. So 2nd path is really better and askes for skill rather then dummy one rotation kill.
This will also fit better in paradigm that CW should have control or damage but not both at the same time. So if you pick contol - go do that but you will need to stop playing rembo style and start more team work. If you pick damage as other side - yeah you can kill opponent but not to be killed itself be sure to show some skill in dodge/teleport to avoid atacks.
Imho but idea looks good to me - more skill and less one rotation kill.
CW needs both decent damage AND CC for PvP, sorry man. If they lack CC but have burst, the devs will never allow us enough of it to kill a GWF GF or HR. If we had good CC but lack burst, there will be either COUNTLESS complaints in the forums because "locked down" or we will just prolong our survivability for a mere 2-3 seconds more before dying. Not to mention classes have their own anti-CC mechanics and CW has nothing to penetrate through immunities.
So we need both CC and DPS, but in some balanced fashion, where we can kill all classes (if skilled and geared) and not fully lock them down or nuke them to hell in one rotation.
This is why CW is a hard thing to balance, cause you cannot take DPS or CC from it without making the class irrelevant outside pure support role.
they could make it a 2v2 class like DC. smth like pure cc support for some dps class or dps support for some high cc like GF
Well this is the place where CW is now, and it's a disadvantage to the team if you have too many of these useless support classes.
The game is 5vs5 however, and it has 3 nodes. You will need to body a node in a 1vs1 situation very often, trust me, because you cannot expect people from a 2vs2 at mid to leave it and babysit you at home vs some monster HR that overhealed everything you nuked it with or some perma-immune to CC GF or GWF that hit like trucks.
The CW should not require babysitting against any class. If you're geared and skilled, you should be able to put up a very good fight with a good chance to win.
atm i see DC as the only pure support
the problem with existing cw ist that it will either instagib squishy/low geared ppl or be useless against tanks that can live through the damage, that was the main idea behind the semi-piercing damage
Yeah, and I support your idea, but it would need to be very carefully done and applied, because otherwise it will be yet another Assailing Force episode leading to massive QQ and nerfs that make the class nearly useless - as it is the case now.
By the way we can't really instagib alone people at same GS if properly built for PvP, with 40-50K HP, not even squishies. I was in a game yesterday where I fought a BiS CW 3 times and I counted about 2-4 rotations and a daily from each of us necessary to burn through our HP (with shield on mastery). If people dodge adequately, they will live long enough.
The "problems" arise when we fight low HP characters without good PvP build. For example, I have 43K HP, 20% Deflect, 31% DR, and many times I use Shield as well. You cannot come with 25K HP that I see pugs having on PvP and expect to survive PvP builds.
and that is what creates most QQ threads
i concur, this happens from matchmakin system.
That's what I'm thinking to.
Can you give me your opinion regarding a reply I've made yesterday saying I’m in a conclusion that the main problem for CW is our spells casting time. Can the developers please……….. take down the casting time of our spells -50% minimum (from around 2 seconds to 1 second or less). They take so long to cast that we cannot properly play PVP. The casting time was implement for PVP propose I’m sure but now it’s like we are in slow motion when it comes to casting. HR and GF assaults are so much quicker (fast as a bullet) compare to our casting time that the fight is almost impossible to win because they are always hiting us before we can complete our cast. TR have all the time to disappear when they see we’re casting, GWF have all the time to wait and then use Unstoppable while they see we’re casting. It won’t change or add any PVE balance but it would improve PVP feel and balance to a certain satisfaction over the frustrations of being constantly interrupted while were trying to play. That change can be done very easily and I think will resolve a lot of the obvious PVP unbalance against CW in the new module to come.
However.
Sadly, I think CW casting times are OK. The real issue is with the near-instant powers the other classes have. We're supposed to be able to dodge stuff based on animation/sound, not by anticipation.
But since I doubt other classes will get nerfs to their animation time, the only remaining solution would be to make CW casts near instant such as FLS and Disruptive and make PvP even worse for everyone, I suppose... sigh.
Quite simply, PvE is mostly AoE, PvP is single target. So you can, if needed (and it's not needed) boost single target DPS and lower damage on AoE.
Also, if you do so then red glyphs i want them fully gone.
Also, you can tune powers and feats to work differently on players and mobs. Like GWF prones becoming stuns on players.
The solution is, and will always be, to make powers work differently in PvE and in PvP.
Not adding more <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font> unresistable damage or broken enchants. Unresistable damage is so stupid i won't even comment it. Must be gone.
You make your build balancing survivability and DPS, the enemy does the same. And if the enemy is taky, then you deal less damage to him.
Else, please, give tanks a defensive mechanic that completely ignores ArP and stats and makes the user only take, let's say, 1k damage per encounter hit, no more. How does this sound.
Seriously, stats and build should always make a difference. Any mechanic that ignores them is broken and not needed...