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How to Achieve Long-Term Success of NW
myowmyow
Member Posts: 1,923 Arc User
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwI0u9L4R8U
I would STRONGLY encourage the developers, analysts, and other business partners at Cryptic/PWE to view this 6-minute video. If you want to skip to the important part, go forward past 3:30 in the video. This gives a perfect solution for long-term survival of NW.
Key: Focus on the average player, not the whales. It's pretty much that simple. I want this game to survive so I hope this video can be used to shape policy at Cryptic/PWE.
OTHER POSTERS: Please don't post statement that will get this thread locked. No condemning others, no threats to quit, no blasting the developers, etc. Please . . .
I would STRONGLY encourage the developers, analysts, and other business partners at Cryptic/PWE to view this 6-minute video. If you want to skip to the important part, go forward past 3:30 in the video. This gives a perfect solution for long-term survival of NW.
Key: Focus on the average player, not the whales. It's pretty much that simple. I want this game to survive so I hope this video can be used to shape policy at Cryptic/PWE.
OTHER POSTERS: Please don't post statement that will get this thread locked. No condemning others, no threats to quit, no blasting the developers, etc. Please . . .
SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! (repeat indefinitely)
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."
Post edited by Unknown User on
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I've played ESO for a few months, and I was utterly satisfied, but after some time I came to a point where the game became too dull. I had nothing else to do in the game, other than grind Veteran Ranks and go to PvP (which is okay there, because it's not domination).
On the other hand there are games like this one. This game is based on a grind for items that we don't really need in order to play this game without a problem, but nevertheless we want them for whatever reason (R10's, perfects, various mounts and companions...). They simply offer us a chance to grind for those items, or to buy them. That is the essence of this game, and it won't be changed, because this is their business model. It may seem like an aggressive model because players always strive for something they can never have, unless they cash out huge amounts of money, but the reality of it is that they don't need it at all - they are just tricked into wanting them.
As for long term survival of this game, they need to focus on quality. Exploits and huge amount of bugs is what ruins this game and drives players away from it, as well as some flaws in the design of new content.
When I see the zen<-> ad market numbers, and see how long it takes to get zen, the numbers seem -- well, fine, depending on how big the player base (humans, not characters) is. And that's just in zen being converted to AD. A lot of zen is spent directly and not used to buy AD. A lot of money can be spent directly without ever buy zen or AD, too.
From my point of view, several things I do point to a larger and robust player base. It's no WoW, but my understanding is that WoW is unique amongst average MMOs in that it's many orders of magnitude larger. (Even EQ never approached the player size -- 12 million peak for WoW vs under 500k peak for EQ.)
Anyway, just curious if anyone has hard data or evidence suggestion something is seriously wrong that would shut the whole thing down.
Number of players is in decline, people are noticing it, and they're worried. Nothing wrong with the fact that they're worried about it, but it's nothing I would worry too much about.
Someone posted this small sample in another topic: http://steamcharts.com/app/109600#All
- Dualspec
- Better rewarding foundry and foundry pvp maps
- Custom PvP leagues with leaderboards instead of the current 'matchmaking'.
- Armory
- make jumping cost stamina (to reduce hopping in pvp)
You don't need prefects, r10s, augments, and BiS gear. You want that.
I soloed Kessell (boss fight after everyone else died and he was at around 80% health) without an augment, weapon/armor enchants and decked in r5s.
So the game lets you pay for it or let you have it if you grind really hard. Casuals can enjoy the content without aiming for 20k OMG GS.
^This.
I do concur with everything the video states. But what jumped out at me was the constant mention of the "STANDARD Free-to-play business model" - which Cryptic Studios does not employe (I don;t know about other PWE games). Cryptic's policy is and always has been 100% Free-to-play with zero content paywall gating.
You can play the game from end-to-end without ever spending a single penny of legal tender, ever. Is it a GRINDFEST? Yes. But it costs nothing. Everything that is sold in the Zen Market or Trade Bar merchant or anything else dealing with Zen or Astral Diamonds is all "want" stuff, never ever is any of that "need" stuff.
So, yes: the video is very good. But it doesn't directly apply to Neverwinter, Star Trek Online, or Champions Online. Of course that doesn't mean these are perfect, they could be better. But as a rule the Cryptic games are not in "danger" of going defunct any time soon, the Cryptic F2P Business Model ensures long-term going-concern for the company, and it's one reason why I stick to these games and not go running off every time some new title from some other studio pops-up.
As for PWE not appearing in the end: some of their games do have gated content I believe, but I'm not sure (APB definitely comes to mind for it's *apparent* "pay-to-win" model.)
Cryptic Studios is not perfect, but they create awesome stuff and have never broken my trust in the six years I've been playing them, so I choose to stick with them.
As for a hearthstone, its a great game, but it took me few months to get enough gold to be able to buy cards for my deck which make it effective in ranked mode, from the start you're just cannon fodder, so where is the difference in business model between HS and NWO? It's exactly the same.
Steam's usage graph isn't truly representational of player decline. Please remember Cryptic is dedicated to the ARC platform. They've spent months promoting it. Player numbers ARE declining, but not necessarily to the same extant shown on Steam.
I wish I could say the same. I don't want to derail the thread so I'll limit my response to "Dragonborn Pack."
The difference being that it won't take too long to get a decent deck in HS, if you're to f2p nwo, you'll never come close to matching the best. Especially with nerfed AD income for farmers. Had they not gone in the change of design decision and make the newer dungeons almost useless I'd agree with it only being a matter of time. Now it's just unrealistic to get most out of the game. And if you do support the game, you won't get a lot out of it if you have any kind of budget.
So back on topic yes this game isn't targeting the average guy, they're trying to milk the guys spending hundreds or thousands of their local currency, and PWE is well known for having a high price cash shop on all their games. Juse see today's promotion, it's an incentive to buy 15k zen... Now I don't mind expensive fashion items but when you look at what artifact gear is and the difference between free/cash shop companions then yes this game isn't friendly towards the average guy.
There are other (profitable!) F2P games only selling starter items in the cash shop, and if you play the game for a few hours you can get these in-game anyway. The best pets, the best gear, comes from playing the game only. There's gear you can upgrade too but they don't sell refinment points in the cash shop, you have to farm to get these and the getting your item up to 80% of the max power is very easy and can be done in a few weeks playing the game normally.
There are alternatives to steep prices and massive power creep every module but it requires a change of mindset. And IMO the steam chart is relevant. There are less and less people playing this game module after modules, and even updates don't make it up for lost players. Of course the cash shop isn't the only element to keep in mind - lack of content, the recent audience changes from gamers to ultra casuals (ie from CN to epic lair of lostmauth), and poorly design updates play a large role too, but IMO the increased pressure to use the cash shop (or what they call "new way to monetize content") isn't innocent. See the dragon invasions event lately, it was purely about a lockbox in disguise. We aren't stupid. We see such things.
i have the same ability when it comes to games. i can research the games that interest me and decide if i want to play or buy those games. if it doesn't appeal to me or even if it kind of appeals to me... it's unlikely that i'm going to dive in.
the great thing about a f2p game is i can try it out and if i don't like it, i don't have to keep playing it. i can move on to the things that appeal to me.
1) Community trying to voice something
2) Community managers trying to enforce the rules, and sort out usefull information and not so much helpfull
3) Devs who can get the picture where their game is, and needs to go from here
And since we should co-exsist together, at the moment feels like everyone is at war with eachother and roles are reversed.
Personaly I dont get HOW we got to this point, where community who likes the product is giving ideas how to take our money since we want more, better content to enjoy.
We as a community are literaly telling, do this or that to take our money and you dissagree with us ?
We WANT to give you money for more, just give us the reason to do so, and lissen. Well that would be my 2 cent on the matter atleast
No one's telling you to praise the company or don't post. We're saying that there's a way to voice concern and dissatisfaction besides raging.
Read this post. You'll see what I mean.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Yes, you can play without ever spending a penny, but you will be crushed in PvP every single time. Especially as a DC. And have a really tough time in Epic dungeons.
I opened 80 lock boxes earlier today, and a lot of it was absolute trash that was worth far less both to me and to other players than the cost of each key, judging by the prices of the unwanted items on the AH. They really need to do something about value for money on those things at this stage of the game. I mean, a single key costs 125 Zen, or 62,500 AD at the moment.
But I bought 8 lots of 10 keys for 1125 per pack. That was 9000 Zen, or 4,500,000 AD's worth, or 56,250 AD per key. And a lot of the items are worth less than half that on the AH, some worth only about 10k. Even with the Astral Resonators, I used them all up and got about 45k each back for the 56.25k I spent. I'd have been better off Trading the Zen for AD in the ZAX and going straight to the Auction House.
I did get a few BoP Coalescent Wards for my Trade Bars, of course. And my return would not have been so poor eight months ago when it cost about 360 AD per Zen on the Exchange and orders were filled instantaneously. So a single key cost 45k (break even on the Resonators) instead of 62.5k, a 10 pack being 40.5k AD per key. But still... getting things that are of no use to me at all and then finding they are worth 10 to 25k on the AH....
But I did get an Epic mount, which should help me get something useful back. I also got a number of Rank 5 and 6 Enchants that I can use on my ALT; but, really, they should have been Rank 6 and 7 at this price. My money for the Zen went directly to PWE, after all.
Now, the point of all this is, yes, I am a sort of mini-Orca rather than an actual Blue Whale, but still a sort of a whale to many. But if I could have afforded only, say, 1100 Zen for €10 per month and bought 10 keys, I would have felt like I had totally wasted my money if I had got the average 1/8 of the drops I got from these boxes. I seriously never want to see another Gloomwrought item again as long as I live. :rolleyes:
But as I opened 80 boxes, I got some useful stuff that I will keep, some stuff that is absolutely useless to me that I can trade, and 1 item that I can sell for a large amount which will still not cover my costs. Now, the actual cash money has gone to the company, which is fair enough. But what I got back is not really worth the money I spent, because I got so many items that are pretty worthless. So I'll have to hold on to them and see if the price goes up.
I bought the keys because I do not need any more mounts or companions, I do not need any re-spec tokens and I have reached the limit on Shared Bank Slots. I would have bought a few more of those if I could, but 40 extra slots is the limit.
Yes, I did not have to buy the Keys and yes, I know it is a gamble. But I have opened a bunch of boxes before and, amongst the usual trash, got things of much better value, including three Epic items and one Legendary. This time, I got just one Epic.
So it looks as if they are not even catering to the whales as well as they used to with their RNG and drop rates.
Quite a few games sell "RnG", or "are you feeling lucky". And for some people that gambling rush is nice to have in game. Personaly I see no problems here, and kinda feels off the spirit of thread post.
By spirit of the thread I mean, what will improve the game for the most of the community, to create enviorment where you want to donate money to further progress the game development. Speaking from my POV and people I play with, this is not the case at the moment. Few more steps need to be taken for everyone willing to participate in the game development financialy and intelectualy.
Sure, I even played one.
But look at this situation from this perspective:
There are HUNDREDS of posts from people being extremely disillusioned with this model here. This goes on from more than a year ago.
And guess what?
The game is catering to whales now even more than when it started and the new player is at incredible disadvantage vs the veterans, a disadvantage that grows each module regardless of feedback.
It is as simple as that:
- You want FUN, and to be REWARDED for your efforts in the game? Play a pure SUBSCRIPTION MMO. You will have a fair ground with other players and all of you will need to grind same amount of time for the good stuff; the fee is not for items, but for access to the game.
- You are OK with either putting in a HUGE amount of time, of lots of money for the good stuff and like uneven battlefields where you can destroy your opponents with the latest FOTM? Congratulations, you are in a good spot not, enjoy yourself.
while I have same disappointing experience with opening boxes - I myself bought "only" 50 like 6 months ago - they by nature can't be profitable. If they were provided you buy high enough number, you could just buy more and more every time in neverending loop of buying keys and selling items in AH and end up like Scourge McDuck swimming in cold coins (or more likely astral diamonds). But since you play with players and not computer they can do exactly the same as you then it's just simple offer/demand situation making items you get from lockboxes lose value.
If you truly understand it's a lottery then you know that in lottery there is like 10k losers on one winner because lottery doesn't create money, it only moves it from one person to another.
What Cryptic SHOULD do on other hand is to show us chances on ALL! items that has chance in subscription including lockboxes, feats, skills, items, enchants... I mean, comon, but even in national lottery you're able to calculate chance of winning, why don't they show us what our chance is? It's like
- hey pay 50EUR and you have a chance to win.
- Well, ok, win what?
- Awesome legendary mount
- great! and how high chance do I have?
- not important, just pay up, you get your chance, if you don't win, buy new ticket! We are so generous we enable you to buy as many tickets as you want!
I actually highly agree with that. I find that hiding the figures means that you can charge the same amount and have anything from 100% chance drop rate to 0.0000000000000000000000000000000001% and can still claim that you have a chance to win it. I find that morally wrong and prys on gambling weakness. I mean people can be addicted to gambling normally, but to not be able know your odds...
I disagree. Lockboxes in my opinion are morally wrong. They are designed to get kids to use their parents credit cards and are simply "gambling". Gambling with no transparency and no oversight.
Think about it. It's not enough that they want to charge for some conveniences or nice to have items but they have to up the cost, often dramatically by making you "pay" for a "chance". Utterly disgraceful. It's not about making money. I'm all for charging what things are worth, but taking advantage of folks that either don't know better or have a gambling habit is just not right. This is supposed to be a game not an online casino.
You can say that again , from the stuff we have been uncovering on preview module five is literally going all out RP crazy , three piece artifact sets with set bonuses , artifact gear reroll tokens etc etc , to keep up with the best equipped ,or even the medium equipped you are going to either need deep pockets or a hell of a lot of spare time xD.
And this is EXACTLY why I started this thread - to encourage Cryptic/PWE to make the shift toward a focus on the average player, not the whales. This is not something that can change quickly. It will take a transition period, if Cryptic/PWE are up the challenge. If not, then I will be sad to see this game slowly die . . .
myles08807 said, "Back in my day, we didn't have any of this fancy Mulhorand gear while we were leveling . . . we walked uphill both ways while dying once every five seconds while leveling, and we liked it fine!" . . . Now, get off my lawn, you kids!"
pointsman said, "I don't rue the game. In fact I don't feel any regret for the game at all."
looomis said, "I don't like people changing to alts and then bragging about their mains like schizophrenic role players."