Nor is there any guarantee that you'll get an artifact belt on your first try. I don't see the problem. Besides, Amusad almost always shows his big ugly head.
So your only argument to get rid of that task is because it's hard? Hardly. I did it in 3 weeks without trying to. I was merely trying to help a guildie accomplish the task. Or is your argument that you can't cheat it with TR's BnS anymore? That's possibly even worse of an argument to get rid of a task.
I think the proper description is an "ill thought out" achievment. In almost every GG I've done, someone (or many people) comes along and takes the node before anyone gets to kill the npcs and they just disappear. So unless you can convince all 20 people in your GG session (not going to happen) that they need to kill the npc's first, this achievement is bogus.
Perhaps they need to reduce the amount significantly.
I accept your concession that you have no proper arguments to defend your stance since you didn't address any of the points I actually brought up, and you are instead trying to put up some fantasy argument that does not reflect how the game *actually* plays out, just how you *think* it should be played out in order to rationalize it as a "challenge."
If you are going to present an argument, at least address my points, and at least try to ground your arguments in how the game actually plays out and what the actual mechanics and dynamics involved are, as opposed to an idealized fantasy version thereof. Thank you.
Well of course it's a challenge. It takes some effort to accomplish. Duh. That's not a rationalization, that's a fact.
And it's not how *I* think it should be played out. That is how it's intended to be played out. You are twisting it into something else so that you can rationalize to yourself why it's okay to cheat.
And your whole argument boils down to "I can't both help my team win a GG PVP match and also achieve the GG NPC kills accomplishment, so therefore it's justified to exploit one in order to achieve the other". And once again this is just a rationalization of exploiting. Because you can't do both, it's okay to cheat? No, how about - because you can't do both, *you have to choose which one you are going to do*. You have to choose which one is more important. If you're going to sabotage your own team because you just want a stupid pirate hat, then that is what you have to live with. But if you're going to help your team win in a manner that does not let you make progress towards the GG NPC accomplishment, then that is also your choice. I still think though that it is a false dichotomy - you can help your team win along with make progress towards the GG NPC accomplishment, in the manner I described above. You just choose not to do it, because it's "too hard", and you don't really mind cheating.
And your appeals to how the game is "actually played" (as opposed to how the game is *intended* to be played) is once again how all of the exploiters justify their actions. By appealing to some phantom status quo in which exploiting is supposed to be normal. "Oh everybody glitches the boss, oh everybody runs and dies at the campfire, that's the way the dungeon is supposed to be done, didn't you know that?" It is just shifting blame away from themselves, the ones who are guilty of cheating, and attempting to redirect it to someone else - to the "oddball" who wants to "deviate from the norm" (of cheating), to the devs who, in the cheater's infinite wisdom, are presumed to be stupid idiots who designed terrible dungeons and achievements for which it's totally justified to cheat in order to accomplish them, to Cryptic because "they just want to make money" (or something), they deflect it ANYWHERE else besides their own guilty conscience. But cheating is cheating. So I reject how you frame the argument in the first place.
Well of course it's a challenge. It takes some effort to accomplish. Duh. That's not a rationalization, that's a fact.
And it's not how *I* think it should be played out. That is how it's intended to be played out. You are twisting it into something else so that you can rationalize to yourself why it's okay to cheat.
And your whole argument boils down to "I can't both help my team win a GG PVP match and also achieve the GG NPC kills accomplishment, so therefore it's justified to exploit one in order to achieve the other". And once again this is just a rationalization of exploiting. Because you can't do both, it's okay to cheat? No, how about - because you can't do both, *you have to choose which one you are going to do*. You have to choose which one is more important. If you're going to sabotage your own team because you just want a stupid pirate hat, then that is what you have to live with. But if you're going to help your team win in a manner that does not let you make progress towards the GG NPC accomplishment, then that is also your choice. I still think though that it is a false dichotomy - you can help your team win along with make progress towards the GG NPC accomplishment, in the manner I described above. You just choose not to do it, because it's "too hard", and you don't really mind cheating.
And your appeals to how the game is "actually played" (as opposed to how the game is *intended* to be played) is once again how all of the exploiters justify their actions. By appealing to some phantom status quo in which exploiting is supposed to be normal. "Oh everybody glitches the boss, oh everybody runs and dies at the campfire, that's the way the dungeon is supposed to be done, didn't you know that?" It is just shifting blame away from themselves, the ones who are guilty of cheating, and attempting to redirect it to someone else - to the "oddball" who wants to "deviate from the norm" (of cheating), to the devs who, in the cheater's infinite wisdom, are presumed to be stupid idiots who designed terrible dungeons and achievements for which it's totally justified to cheat in order to accomplish them, to Cryptic because "they just want to make money" (or something), they deflect it ANYWHERE else besides their own guilty conscience. But cheating is cheating. So I reject how you frame the argument in the first place.
Dude.... Whenever i read your posts i am lost for words. You cannot be reasoned with, at all. Have you played any other MMOs? I mean since you are defending this design flaw, like you were the one who made it, you must have not played any other games.
Its like they would create a task in which ever place you like to quest, to kill as many players as you can. How would you be able to finish your quest if im killing you over and over and over again? Its a design flaw, they put something in PvP that was intended for PvE, and you have to do the OPPOSITE of you task to accomplish this "Challenge".
Its challenging because its a design flaw, nobodys defending exploits or cheats, but that would be the better option in this case then to go against 19 other players.
I can try to explain one more time. If you were in 5v5 domination, and one of the tasks would be to farm deungon nodes. Its a design flaw, no DEV can defend this. They have no idea why the put it inside. Its only you who are defending this. I say, l2p. Because anybody can see that this is not working as intended. You are never suppose to go completly against your primary task to finish a secondary task, in this case, go against the primary task for a year maybe. yeah, its not intended.
I'm always against cheats and exploits, but in this case i'm 100% behind abe.
It's just brainless to make ppl in PvP zone to kill a "bilion" NPC's, which on top of that are tough not regular type and spawn only if certain requirements are met and disappear if not met anymore....
So this time I'll definitely search how to do it and will do it, just because it's either this, or you need to become brain dead yourself to do it "the right way".
Flaws in game must be fixed in first place, if not - exploiting those can't be considered exploiting in practice.
I'm always against cheats and exploits, but in this case i'm 100% behind abe.
Flaws in game must be fixed in first place, if not - exploiting those can't be considered exploiting in practice.
now than, how could these two statements coexist in one post?
Did you ever program anything or did you work as a tester? It's impossible to think of everything, there is always some way you can exploit things. Let's take a look at a law - countless intelligent people are trying to make it perfect for several decades and yet there is always a loophole to exploit. Neverwinter isn't up that long that it should already be without bugs or exploits and some are not easily fixed, you change one part of the code and who knows what consequences it may cause and you may and up with ten other bugs so it's time consuming. In a meanwhile cheating is cheating no matter what your excuse might be so I decided not to fulfill this goal until they either fix it or make some adjustments, but I would never consider cheating to get it cos what's the point then? If you had option to mark that goal as complete with simple click (let's say you would get admin rights for the game) would you use it?
Effort = chore. A challenge is about something being difficult.
Trying to *win* the game is how it's *actually* played, and how it's intended to be played, because the mechanics so clearly support it. You win the game by holding the nodes, keeping them clear, and scoring points. The only one trying to appeal to "phantoms" here is you by proposing people play the game sub-optimally or sabotage their own team for a "challenge." You can't compare this to a dungeon, because how the game is *actually* played isn't by doing some exploit to beat a boss or whatever, it's by holding nodes to win. A better comparison would be someone that would achieve something by *sabotaging* a dungeon run (which I'm not aware of there being any rewards for).
Agreed and agreed on both points. I don't ever see killing NPCs to be part of normal GG gameplay since you despawn them by capturing the point.
I also really hate how Cryptic introduced this achievement that either requires you to exploit (will not discuss details as to how) or act in ways counter-productive to your teammates and the match.
I honestly think they ran out of ideas and just slapped "Kill 1000 NPCs in without THINKING about it because Wizards of the Coast has been calling them the past 3 weeks to make sure the new module is up and running on the designated date.
(by the way, yes I am accusing 99% of people who have this achievement did so by exploiting)
Did you ever program anything or did you work as a tester? It's impossible to think of everything, there is always some way you can exploit things. Let's take a look at a law - countless intelligent people are trying to make it perfect for several decades and yet there is always a loophole to exploit. Neverwinter isn't up that long that it should already be without bugs or exploits and some are not easily fixed, you change one part of the code and who knows what consequences it may cause and you may and up with ten other bugs so it's time consuming. In a meanwhile cheating is cheating no matter what your excuse might be so I decided not to fulfill this goal until they either fix it or make some adjustments, but I would never consider cheating to get it cos what's the point then? If you had option to mark that goal as complete with simple click (let's say you would get admin rights for the game) would you use it?
Yes i did both - not for a whole project from scratch, but did multiple mod overhauls of different games as a coder and then tester.
As i said earlier - flaws must be fixed and in this case it's just so easy - if they really want to keep the whole idea of killing those NPC's in PvP area or they don't have the time to change it with something better, the least they could do, is to fix the amount to a reasonable lvl, that won't need years of regular play(i.e. no exploits and not doing this during the whole run and thus failing to help your team) and this fix will take just a few mins - half of that time to figure out the new number.....
Since they didn't do it, it seem we have a green light for exploiting to finish it or we're left with your way - not do it at all, which just shows how big this flaw is and it needs fixing....
Since they didn't do it, it seem we have a green light for exploiting to finish it or we're left with your way - not do it at all, which just shows how big this flaw is and it needs fixing....
now comon, give them some slack, it's not like they've been doing nothing, I too am making suggestions for improvement and pointing out bugs , but you can't expect they repair it right away (if ever) they are now focusing on new content and they are releasing modules in quite a pace. If you read the whole discussion you would know that I think killing NPC shouldn't be part of PVP feat achievement...
Anyway just that you (or I for that matter) see it as a problem, DEVs might think otherwise - that it's working as it suppose to be and by using exploits you are running the risk of having your account banned cos you're violating EULA you "signed" when installing the game (not to mention it's wrong on moral highs)
This has gone on more than long enough. For one, the discussion of exploits or potential exploits is not permitted on the forums. Secondly, it's not a productive discussion but a running argument over "what's the accepted design".
15.3 of Terms of Service. PWE, at their sole and absolute discretion determines what constitutes an exploit and the punishment, if any, for said exploit. If you aren't staff, it's all a speculative argument and not doing anyone a bit of good but saying "my way is better than your way!!"
Thread done.
ROLL TIDE ROLL
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com
Comments
I think the proper description is an "ill thought out" achievment. In almost every GG I've done, someone (or many people) comes along and takes the node before anyone gets to kill the npcs and they just disappear. So unless you can convince all 20 people in your GG session (not going to happen) that they need to kill the npc's first, this achievement is bogus.
Perhaps they need to reduce the amount significantly.
Well of course it's a challenge. It takes some effort to accomplish. Duh. That's not a rationalization, that's a fact.
And it's not how *I* think it should be played out. That is how it's intended to be played out. You are twisting it into something else so that you can rationalize to yourself why it's okay to cheat.
And your whole argument boils down to "I can't both help my team win a GG PVP match and also achieve the GG NPC kills accomplishment, so therefore it's justified to exploit one in order to achieve the other". And once again this is just a rationalization of exploiting. Because you can't do both, it's okay to cheat? No, how about - because you can't do both, *you have to choose which one you are going to do*. You have to choose which one is more important. If you're going to sabotage your own team because you just want a stupid pirate hat, then that is what you have to live with. But if you're going to help your team win in a manner that does not let you make progress towards the GG NPC accomplishment, then that is also your choice. I still think though that it is a false dichotomy - you can help your team win along with make progress towards the GG NPC accomplishment, in the manner I described above. You just choose not to do it, because it's "too hard", and you don't really mind cheating.
And your appeals to how the game is "actually played" (as opposed to how the game is *intended* to be played) is once again how all of the exploiters justify their actions. By appealing to some phantom status quo in which exploiting is supposed to be normal. "Oh everybody glitches the boss, oh everybody runs and dies at the campfire, that's the way the dungeon is supposed to be done, didn't you know that?" It is just shifting blame away from themselves, the ones who are guilty of cheating, and attempting to redirect it to someone else - to the "oddball" who wants to "deviate from the norm" (of cheating), to the devs who, in the cheater's infinite wisdom, are presumed to be stupid idiots who designed terrible dungeons and achievements for which it's totally justified to cheat in order to accomplish them, to Cryptic because "they just want to make money" (or something), they deflect it ANYWHERE else besides their own guilty conscience. But cheating is cheating. So I reject how you frame the argument in the first place.
Dude.... Whenever i read your posts i am lost for words. You cannot be reasoned with, at all. Have you played any other MMOs? I mean since you are defending this design flaw, like you were the one who made it, you must have not played any other games.
Its like they would create a task in which ever place you like to quest, to kill as many players as you can. How would you be able to finish your quest if im killing you over and over and over again? Its a design flaw, they put something in PvP that was intended for PvE, and you have to do the OPPOSITE of you task to accomplish this "Challenge".
Its challenging because its a design flaw, nobodys defending exploits or cheats, but that would be the better option in this case then to go against 19 other players.
I can try to explain one more time. If you were in 5v5 domination, and one of the tasks would be to farm deungon nodes. Its a design flaw, no DEV can defend this. They have no idea why the put it inside. Its only you who are defending this. I say, l2p. Because anybody can see that this is not working as intended. You are never suppose to go completly against your primary task to finish a secondary task, in this case, go against the primary task for a year maybe. yeah, its not intended.
It's just brainless to make ppl in PvP zone to kill a "bilion" NPC's, which on top of that are tough not regular type and spawn only if certain requirements are met and disappear if not met anymore....
So this time I'll definitely search how to do it and will do it, just because it's either this, or you need to become brain dead yourself to do it "the right way".
Flaws in game must be fixed in first place, if not - exploiting those can't be considered exploiting in practice.
now than, how could these two statements coexist in one post?
Did you ever program anything or did you work as a tester? It's impossible to think of everything, there is always some way you can exploit things. Let's take a look at a law - countless intelligent people are trying to make it perfect for several decades and yet there is always a loophole to exploit. Neverwinter isn't up that long that it should already be without bugs or exploits and some are not easily fixed, you change one part of the code and who knows what consequences it may cause and you may and up with ten other bugs so it's time consuming. In a meanwhile cheating is cheating no matter what your excuse might be so I decided not to fulfill this goal until they either fix it or make some adjustments, but I would never consider cheating to get it cos what's the point then? If you had option to mark that goal as complete with simple click (let's say you would get admin rights for the game) would you use it?
Agreed and agreed on both points. I don't ever see killing NPCs to be part of normal GG gameplay since you despawn them by capturing the point.
I also really hate how Cryptic introduced this achievement that either requires you to exploit (will not discuss details as to how) or act in ways counter-productive to your teammates and the match.
I honestly think they ran out of ideas and just slapped "Kill 1000 NPCs in without THINKING about it because Wizards of the Coast has been calling them the past 3 weeks to make sure the new module is up and running on the designated date.
(by the way, yes I am accusing 99% of people who have this achievement did so by exploiting)
It's explained between the 2 sentences
Yes i did both - not for a whole project from scratch, but did multiple mod overhauls of different games as a coder and then tester.
As i said earlier - flaws must be fixed and in this case it's just so easy - if they really want to keep the whole idea of killing those NPC's in PvP area or they don't have the time to change it with something better, the least they could do, is to fix the amount to a reasonable lvl, that won't need years of regular play(i.e. no exploits and not doing this during the whole run and thus failing to help your team) and this fix will take just a few mins - half of that time to figure out the new number.....
Since they didn't do it, it seem we have a green light for exploiting to finish it or we're left with your way - not do it at all, which just shows how big this flaw is and it needs fixing....
now comon, give them some slack, it's not like they've been doing nothing, I too am making suggestions for improvement and pointing out bugs , but you can't expect they repair it right away (if ever) they are now focusing on new content and they are releasing modules in quite a pace. If you read the whole discussion you would know that I think killing NPC shouldn't be part of PVP feat achievement...
Anyway just that you (or I for that matter) see it as a problem, DEVs might think otherwise - that it's working as it suppose to be and by using exploits you are running the risk of having your account banned cos you're violating EULA you "signed" when installing the game (not to mention it's wrong on moral highs)
15.3 of Terms of Service. PWE, at their sole and absolute discretion determines what constitutes an exploit and the punishment, if any, for said exploit. If you aren't staff, it's all a speculative argument and not doing anyone a bit of good but saying "my way is better than your way!!"
Thread done.
Great Weapon Fighter: Because when is today not a good day to die?
PC and PS4 player. Proud Guildmaster for PS4 Team Fencebane. Rank 5 Officer for PC Team Fencebane. Visit us at http://fencebane.shivtr.com