mittensofdoomMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 247Arc User
edited October 2014
Week 2's report has been sent.
~ Hellish Rebuke. This at-will seems sluggish to cast and has a slight delay after the casting animation that keeps you rooted in place.
~ Shadow Slipping and jumping. Someone has suggested that perhaps we should be able to jump and shadow slip to move the distance in the air faster. Also shadow slipping while falling does not stop damage like other class shift abilities do.
~ There is currently a debate on the PvP section of the forums as to whether Shadow Slip is OP or not. General consensus seems to suggest it is not. Nevertheless this counts as feedback.
~ When in a group with more than one SW, it's hard to tell who's curse is on what mob.
~ Suggestion to make Warlock's Curses (all forms of it) increase damage by other players, not just the warlock.
~ Our CC casting mechanic and cast times are to long to execute. They required a two to three step process using curses to CC someone.
~ Eldritch Momentum. It has been suggested this seems to be to high up the tree for SW.
~ The "nearby targets" range for Relentless Curse is too small to be of much value.
~ It would be fair if the PvP boards were reset due to problems with the (now fixed) damnation puppets bug.
~ There are a number of weapons that have been directly copied from TR weapons. Unique skins would be more special.
~ Suggestion that the following encounters be beefed up to make them more desired over more useful encounters; Infernal Spheres, Curse Bite, Pillar of Power, Hellish Rebuke, Wraith's Shadow.
~ Blades of Vanquished Armies. Should be able to cast this while moving or have a larger range.
Whether or not I agree or disagree with some of these suggestions does not matter.
If I missed anything or you have a suggestion/issue/feedback for next weeks mail please let me know.
Add to the list
Infernal Spheres does not work in PVP the spheres come up but don't actually attack any player.
CC Immunity has approx ~1 sec delay when shadows slipping, immunity does not kick in until the animation starts which is 1-2 steps. Also affects when shadow slipping from a mount.
skills with animations on players at edge of range/ going out of line of sight/ or stealthing the animation plays the projectile leaves my avatar but does not actually connect.
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luthandroseMember, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
Infernal Spheres does not work in PVP the spheres come up but don't actually attack any player.
Infernal Spheres does work in PvP. Remember you can precast this encounter and it uses your curse mechanic to target. It also targets by proximity; meaning opponents that are close enough to you it will automatically target.
I do agree that the tool tip could be updated to better explain the encounters mechanic.
Wraith's Shadow is always flakey to cast when I'm holding down an At-will button. Most encounters for most classes always interrupt at wills when you press an encounter, even if you're holding down the at will button. But when I do this with Wrath's Shadow it often times doesn't register the button press and keeps firing at wills. It usually takes me several key presses to get the first part to fire. This is problematic because the followup consumes the ability. So if I get in the habit of pressing the key for it several times, occasionally it will cast on the first try and then my next key press will consume the ability before I would've liked. Having the power supersede at wills consistently would increase it's usability greatly.
My SW is mostly for PvP, and I have a Temptation build, so this feedback will be based on that.
Overall, SWs feel a bit weak in PvP. They can do a lot of damage, especially using a few broken things, but they suffer against the excessive burst damage some classes can put out and against many cc effects they have poor options; either sprint to avoid it while still taking damage (relying on the opponent to use their own powers) while being unable to use their own powers to fight back, or try to use their own powers, but get cc-ed for sure.
There are class match-ups where the SW has literally virtually no chance. Specifically, against CWs with particularly high burst damage, the SW either has the choice of being controlled due to CW control powers firing faster, or being killed while sprinting, due to the CW's damage being great enough to kill the SW through the sprint damage resistance. (It's also noteworthy that these CWs can be badly specced for PvP for any other purpose, with low hit points, just massive offensive stats.) SWs need a mechanic that allows them to fully avoid damage for a short period of time similar to a proper dodge, or a way to boost their shadow sprint damage resistance.
HRs will kill an SW as easy as anything; the HR will out life steal and out-heal the SW, even though life steal is supposed to be more of the SW's gimmick.
Some GFs are able to virtually two-shot SWs (of comparatively similar gear levels) that get too close while their own block makes them very hard for SWs to do significant damage to.
SWs do pretty well against most GWFs, even to the point of overperforming, unless the GWF has a Sentinel Intimidation build, which can sometimes kill SWs even while sprinting.
The Accursed Diabolist set overperforms with certain SW powers; it seems that each tick of some powers are considered a separate encounter power, which can allow this set to inflict a horribly large amount of damage.
Most SW powers aren't very useful for PvP purposes. Some suffer from long casting times or requiring multiple actions to activate.
Vampiric Embrace is a bit weak. It does low damage and heals relatively little. As a Temptation Warlock, this is supposed to be a strong power to use with the capstone feature, but it's never felt that way. Better to just go with something with higher damage.
Infernal Spheres each do low damage. It's good for fighting stealthy characters and does decent damage while using glyphs. It could do with a small damage boost otherwise, though, especially as glyphs are being fixed.
The Dreadtheft animation remains clunky and non-fluid, will frequently bug out with the beam (seeming to be?) going in the wrong direction, upwards, etc.
Curse Bite feels pretty useless. Increasing the damage a little would probably be nice.
Pillar of Power feels way too clunky, and the effect provided is entirely unclear. It seems very weak in practice.
Harrowstorm has a long casting time, and requires a second action to surge for burst damage and prone; the initial casting time seems a little too long, and there seems to be a small time lag after finishing the animation before the power takes effect, which means you'll sometimes accidentally sprint-cancel it. Other than that, it's a fine high-risk, high-reward power.
Wraith's Shadow takes a lot of actions to set up for maximum effect, and the immobilization aspect seems to frequently fail due to cc immunity or ways to break out of cc.
Blades of Vanquished Armies is supposed to enjoy a boost from a Temptation Warlock feat, but the duration of the power itself seems too short for the feat to be worth taking.
Hellish Rebuke, as was already mentioned, has that annoying tendency to get you stuck.
Gates of Hell generally feels clunky to use, has a long set-up time, and doesn't feel rewarding enough compared to other dailies to be worth bothering with in practice.
My PvE experience thus far has been that SWs feel pretty well-balanced. While they can do a lot of damage, or deal decent damage while adding in a lot of party healing, they lack the autonomy that some other classes enjoy (CWs especially) and need to rely on other characters tanking or controlling groups of monsters to be fully effective.
THIS is a great post. I agree with what you have stated and one thing I would add is the cast time of almost all our encounters and dailies seeming a little long for pvp compared to other classes.
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mittensofdoomMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 247Arc User
edited October 2014
Week 3's report has been sent
~ CC Immunity has approx ~1 sec delay when shadows slipping, immunity does not kick in until the animation starts which is 1-2 steps. Also affects when shadow slipping from a mount.
~ Clunky mechanics noticed with Wraith's Shadow. Often does not cast when the at will butoon is already held down.
~ Infernal Sphere's tooltip could be made clearer.
~ Skills with animations on players at edge of range/ going out of line of sight/ or stealthing the animation plays the projectile leaves the avatar but does not actually connect. (Pretty sure this is intended as it happens on my other ranged classes, but included anyway.)
~ @macjae's whole post was included (great feedback there)
Now, I think we have most issues dealt with so I would love to try and focus on some other feedback such as:
- What do you like most about the Scourge Warlock?
- What is your favourite feat tree (fury, damnation, temptation) and why?
- What do you think the weakest feat tree is and why?
- Which feat tree do you think is best for PVP?
- What is your most favourite encounter/daily/at will and why?
- What is your least favourite encounter/daily/at will and why?
All other feedback and/or issues are of course welcome!
beckylunaticMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 14,231Arc User
edited October 2014
Dreadtheft gets cancelled and goes on cooldown if another player throws or kites your target out of range. I'm not sure there's anything that can be done about it, since the counterpoint is that it also cancels if you move too far away from your target and that's fair. Just wanted to mention it.
Prince of Hell: Rather than increase the Armor Penetration stat by a percentage, which becomes less worthwhile the higher your Armor Penetration already is, this should instead increase the Armor Penetration value directly and additively -- maybe something like 2% damage resistance ignored per rank, on top of your regular damage reduction.
I recall from trying this feat out the main reason it was useless was due to it taking your base Arpen (before boons, buffs and pet bonuses) to do the calculation on. i.e. can give an almost negligible benefit.
I agree that it needs to be a flat % armour ignored added on.
Also, I know it's been mentioned several times now but the 'wind up time' inherent in Shadow Slip before CC resist kicks in is problematic. Even more so now that cast times of other classes are being reduced. Right now you have to use it predictively rather than reactively to avoid CC (remember we have no CC breaker) and I can't think of another class that has this limitation to it's evasion mechanics.
GWFs use the same shift mechanic, but they do have a CC breaker (but they are also a melee class). Several other classes also struggle a lot when they do get caught with CC effects, and it's really only a couple of classes that have CC breakers -- GWFs and TRs.
Yes, my point is that other classes have either a solid immunity dodge OR a CC break (or both of course)
As things stand now, there's a very fine line to balancing the SW shift mechanic, though.
Agreed. But it's essential that we keep raising the issue, especially as the landscape continues to change around us. We don't want God Mode but what we have isn't enough right now - so we need to keep a discussion going on this.
Most of all, I think it would be nice if SWs maintain a unique way of dealing with the issue. Warlock's Bargain ... <snip> ... tank through CC effects through life steal and damaging their attacker in the process.
Unfortunately, healing depression wants to have a word with you
- What do you like most about the Scourge Warlock?
I enjoy the role of ranged striking/DPS, and the challenge of tagging the approoriate bad guys. Then melting their faces, while constantly moving. The face you have to be aware of all red circles, and sources of CC, is great and I find the gameplay extremely active.
- What is your favourite feat tree (fury, damnation, temptation) and why?
Fury... Because I like melting faces.
Slightly more serious, I enjoy the DPS it can do. It simply fits my playstyle with the range and mix of single target and AOE abilities that require skill to maximize.
- What do you think the weakest feat tree is and why?
Damnation. It is solid in PvP, but I've found the loss of DPS between it and Fury is significant. It also doesn't bring as much party utility as Temptation. I've run all the specs on test/live and this one, to me, is just clearly farthest behind the curve.
This is a toss up between Damnation and Temptation for me. I've only really PvP'd as a Fury SW and it's always been a support DPS role. Whereas in Damnation, with the Soul Puppet, and Temptation, with it's party buff/debuffs, bring higher defensive aspects.
- What is your most favourite encounter/daily/at will and why?
Encounter, Warlock's Bargain, I love the fact it has synergy with everything else and the animation is so amazing! Daily, Tryannical Threat, duh! lol At-Will, Hand of Blight, because it's the fastest one we have.
- What is your least favourite encounter/daily/at will and why?
Encounter, Cursed Bite, just doesn't do much of anything really... Daily, Accursed Souls, completely bleh... Just far surpassed by everything else. At-Will, Hellish Rebuke. I believe it's good, obviously, but the animation is way to slow and buggy.
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
edited November 2014
Here's a question. Why can't the soul puppet crit? Rather unfair compaired to the damage the fury capstone deals and the utility the temp capstone brings. It's not as if the puppet can grab much attention and tank for the party. Can't direct it to attack a target of choice, it just scratches w/e it pleases.
Here's a question. Why can't the soul puppet crit? Rather unfair compaired to the damage the fury capstone deals and the utility the temp capstone brings. It's not as if the puppet can grab much attention and tank for the party. Can't direct it to attack a target of choice, it just scratches w/e it pleases.
That would help Damnation a bit I'd say...
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ghoulz66Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 3,748Arc User
nebulus7Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2014
I think a 75% reduction in party healing with Soul Binding is way overkill. I still count as a healer in the party finder, and that has taken a lot away from me. I'm at 2.1k life steal and I think I am hitting DR (diminishing returns). I am unsure where to go to make up that lost healing.
Related note: they didn't even change the tooltip for Soul Binding, still says 200%.
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mittensofdoomMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 247Arc User
edited November 2014
Regarding an query from somebody about this statement in Akro's original post looking for class advocates:
-The advocates will hold office for 1 module. Once their time in the sun is up, we will move on to the next eligible candidate.
Yes we have a new module now and yes this statement appears to mean my time is near to ending but no, I have not received any word on it yet. Until I have official word I'm continuing as usual.
Regarding an query from somebody about this statement in Akro's original post looking for class advocates:
-The advocates will hold office for 1 module. Once their time in the sun is up, we will move on to the next eligible candidate.
Yes we have a new module now and yes this statement appears to mean my time is near to ending but no, I have not received any word on it yet. Until I have official word I'm continuing as usual.
Either way, thank you for all the work you've done thus far! :cool:
Hello. Would like people to look into these issues
1. Warlock's Bargain revives me in PvP. may occur a few times in succession. Am unsure if that contributes to multiple deaths / kills.
2. Shadow Sprint requires me to release the sprint key after i am out of the red areas / danger zone immediately or else i would still get hit even when i have sprinted very far away.
What does this mean? Well, it means I get the job of collecting your feedback on the Scourge Warlock each week, compiling it into one place and sending it upward to be reviewed.
I promise to be diligent and unbiased in my collecting of feedback, however I would like to put forward a few ways to make this a little easier for me.
1.) You can make a new thread if you have an issue, however it would make things easier for me if you write it in this thread as well so I can spot it faster.
2.) You can mail me in game. Please refrain from using tells as a mail would make it simpler to get your point across and give me more time to take that point and note it down. I am @mittensofdoom.
3.) You can also mail your issue to me using the forum mail.
Thank you for your time and I am looking forward to working with everybody making the Scourge Warlock the best it can be!
yes you thank that the scoundrel warlock is good to play.let me now how is it
Comments
~ Hellish Rebuke. This at-will seems sluggish to cast and has a slight delay after the casting animation that keeps you rooted in place.
~ Shadow Slipping and jumping. Someone has suggested that perhaps we should be able to jump and shadow slip to move the distance in the air faster. Also shadow slipping while falling does not stop damage like other class shift abilities do.
~ There is currently a debate on the PvP section of the forums as to whether Shadow Slip is OP or not. General consensus seems to suggest it is not. Nevertheless this counts as feedback.
~ When in a group with more than one SW, it's hard to tell who's curse is on what mob.
~ Suggestion to make Warlock's Curses (all forms of it) increase damage by other players, not just the warlock.
~ Our CC casting mechanic and cast times are to long to execute. They required a two to three step process using curses to CC someone.
~ Eldritch Momentum. It has been suggested this seems to be to high up the tree for SW.
~ The "nearby targets" range for Relentless Curse is too small to be of much value.
~ It would be fair if the PvP boards were reset due to problems with the (now fixed) damnation puppets bug.
~ There are a number of weapons that have been directly copied from TR weapons. Unique skins would be more special.
~ Suggestion that the following encounters be beefed up to make them more desired over more useful encounters; Infernal Spheres, Curse Bite, Pillar of Power, Hellish Rebuke, Wraith's Shadow.
~ Blades of Vanquished Armies. Should be able to cast this while moving or have a larger range.
Whether or not I agree or disagree with some of these suggestions does not matter.
If I missed anything or you have a suggestion/issue/feedback for next weeks mail please let me know.
Infernal Spheres does not work in PVP the spheres come up but don't actually attack any player.
CC Immunity has approx ~1 sec delay when shadows slipping, immunity does not kick in until the animation starts which is 1-2 steps. Also affects when shadow slipping from a mount.
skills with animations on players at edge of range/ going out of line of sight/ or stealthing the animation plays the projectile leaves my avatar but does not actually connect.
Infernal Spheres does work in PvP. Remember you can precast this encounter and it uses your curse mechanic to target. It also targets by proximity; meaning opponents that are close enough to you it will automatically target.
I do agree that the tool tip could be updated to better explain the encounters mechanic.
THIS is a great post. I agree with what you have stated and one thing I would add is the cast time of almost all our encounters and dailies seeming a little long for pvp compared to other classes.
~ CC Immunity has approx ~1 sec delay when shadows slipping, immunity does not kick in until the animation starts which is 1-2 steps. Also affects when shadow slipping from a mount.
~ Clunky mechanics noticed with Wraith's Shadow. Often does not cast when the at will butoon is already held down.
~ Infernal Sphere's tooltip could be made clearer.
~ Skills with animations on players at edge of range/ going out of line of sight/ or stealthing the animation plays the projectile leaves the avatar but does not actually connect. (Pretty sure this is intended as it happens on my other ranged classes, but included anyway.)
~ @macjae's whole post was included (great feedback there)
Now, I think we have most issues dealt with so I would love to try and focus on some other feedback such as:
- What do you like most about the Scourge Warlock?
- What is your favourite feat tree (fury, damnation, temptation) and why?
- What do you think the weakest feat tree is and why?
- Which feat tree do you think is best for PVP?
- What is your most favourite encounter/daily/at will and why?
- What is your least favourite encounter/daily/at will and why?
All other feedback and/or issues are of course welcome!
Neverwinter Census 2017
All posts pending disapproval by Cecilia
*twiddles thumbs*
I recall from trying this feat out the main reason it was useless was due to it taking your base Arpen (before boons, buffs and pet bonuses) to do the calculation on. i.e. can give an almost negligible benefit.
I agree that it needs to be a flat % armour ignored added on.
Also, I know it's been mentioned several times now but the 'wind up time' inherent in Shadow Slip before CC resist kicks in is problematic. Even more so now that cast times of other classes are being reduced. Right now you have to use it predictively rather than reactively to avoid CC (remember we have no CC breaker) and I can't think of another class that has this limitation to it's evasion mechanics.
Interesting. I've never managed to get a GF past Dragon Bridge (too **** slow) which explains my ignorance of this.
Yes, my point is that other classes have either a solid immunity dodge OR a CC break (or both of course)
Agreed. But it's essential that we keep raising the issue, especially as the landscape continues to change around us. We don't want God Mode but what we have isn't enough right now - so we need to keep a discussion going on this.
Me too. That shouldn't be our measuring stick.
Unfortunately, healing depression wants to have a word with you
I enjoy the role of ranged striking/DPS, and the challenge of tagging the approoriate bad guys. Then melting their faces, while constantly moving. The face you have to be aware of all red circles, and sources of CC, is great and I find the gameplay extremely active.
Fury... Because I like melting faces.
Slightly more serious, I enjoy the DPS it can do. It simply fits my playstyle with the range and mix of single target and AOE abilities that require skill to maximize.
Damnation. It is solid in PvP, but I've found the loss of DPS between it and Fury is significant. It also doesn't bring as much party utility as Temptation. I've run all the specs on test/live and this one, to me, is just clearly farthest behind the curve.
This is a toss up between Damnation and Temptation for me. I've only really PvP'd as a Fury SW and it's always been a support DPS role. Whereas in Damnation, with the Soul Puppet, and Temptation, with it's party buff/debuffs, bring higher defensive aspects.
Encounter, Warlock's Bargain, I love the fact it has synergy with everything else and the animation is so amazing!
Daily, Tryannical Threat, duh! lol
At-Will, Hand of Blight, because it's the fastest one we have.
Encounter, Cursed Bite, just doesn't do much of anything really...
Daily, Accursed Souls, completely bleh... Just far surpassed by everything else.
At-Will, Hellish Rebuke. I believe it's good, obviously, but the animation is way to slow and buggy.
HR: That puppet made my health go down for a brief moment! NERF!!
Related note: they didn't even change the tooltip for Soul Binding, still says 200%.
-The advocates will hold office for 1 module. Once their time in the sun is up, we will move on to the next eligible candidate.
Yes we have a new module now and yes this statement appears to mean my time is near to ending but no, I have not received any word on it yet. Until I have official word I'm continuing as usual.
1. Warlock's Bargain revives me in PvP. may occur a few times in succession. Am unsure if that contributes to multiple deaths / kills.
2. Shadow Sprint requires me to release the sprint key after i am out of the red areas / danger zone immediately or else i would still get hit even when i have sprinted very far away.
And as the poster above stated, the hitbox when in shadow sprint is awful, i'm always getting knocked up from miles away from the danger zone.
Tah for reading
Keep it coming folks!