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confidence-building measures

galaxy1045galaxy1045 Member Posts: 95 Arc User
edited August 2014 in General Discussion (PC)
Hi,
do you think it would help your confidence in PWE/Cryptic's business model if they come up with some numbers like
  • mule accounts banned due to the latest exploit
  • number of accounts banned with level 60 characters wearing enchantments > lesser (meaning they were probably played; a level 60 praying bot is not interesting)
  • AD taken out of the system due to account banns (sum of AD on accounts banned)
  • illegal obtained Z taken out of the system

For me, it would be a bit satisfying to know that something has happened - and I mean more communication than "the perpetrators have been dealt with".
I don't ask for naming or shaming, just some overall number to show me that it is still worth investing in this game and to the future players that using exploits is gonna get you banned for real. AND that (I hope this is true) disguising behind fake accounts is not working any more.

So, please keep this civilized so it's not closed within minutes!
Post edited by galaxy1045 on
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    zshikarazshikara Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 796 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I would like to see some actual numbers, but on the same token, numbers can be manipulated. What I mean is, they can change their results to make the numbers seem bigger or smaller than they actually were. I don't think they'd have any reason to outright lie to us, after all, we're their customers, but on the same token, unless they have some way to back this up we wouldn't have any proof, just their word.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    ...
    Tired of running dungeons with exploiters and cheaters? Join the legit channel by visiting http://goo.gl/1zfnTS to apply!
    Performing ritual pony sacrifices to Tiamat to earn favor with the RNG Gods since 2014.
    ...
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    charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    zshikara wrote: »
    I would like to see some actual numbers, but on the same token, numbers can be manipulated. What I mean is, they can change their results to make the numbers seem bigger or smaller than they actually were. I don't think they'd have any reason to outright lie to us, after all, we're their customers, but on the same token, unless they have some way to back this up we wouldn't have any proof, just their word.

    Bear in mind I'm a complete cynic, and I believe whole heartedly in the quote from House "everybody lies". That said. They have major reasons to lie. This is a public relations nightmare, it's on mmo news sites like massively. Wizards of the Coast is promoting Neverwinter in regards to Tyranny of Dragons, you get the idea. The only reason for them not to lie is if they think they'll get caught. If they think they won't get caught lying can only benefit them financially.
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    mircalla83mircalla83 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 36
    edited August 2014
    In fact, I think it should be outright important to bring this to light among the Tabletop/Pen&Paper Community, too.
    The current promotion by Wizards of the Coast is clearly aimed at the Tabletop Players, and they have a right to know what awaits them here, especially given the fact that among those, the amount of disposeable income is traditionally quite high, and it would be sad to see them financing the schemes of cheaters and exploiters.
    As I wait for my account creation mail on the WotC forums, I can only ask that someone who already has access could write it up there. Especially if there are screenshots of this exploits that are multiple months old, it might not harm to secure those, in case that 'someone' comes up with some legal mumbo-jumbo to scare imagehosters into deletion.
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    iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    My confidence in the game is pretty much blown at this point , I'm sick of doing everything the legit and right way and taking months to get rank 8 - 10 enchantments and greater enchantments just to see some scumbags who only started weeks ago rocking full rank 10's and perfects despite never buying any zen ,too many exploits one after another with no action taken apart from rumors of totally meaningless three day bans ,it's a complete joke , I've never heard of any other MMO where such behavior is just allowed to go on seemingly unchallenged .
    YourSecretsAreOurSecrets.gif
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    twilightwatchmantwilightwatchman Member Posts: 2,007 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    iambecks1 wrote: »
    My confidence in the game is pretty much blown at this point , I'm sick of doing everything the legit and right way and taking months to get rank 8 - 10 enchantments and greater enchantments just to see some scumbags who only started weeks ago rocking full rank 10's and perfects despite never buying any zen ,too many exploits one after another with no action taken apart from rumors of totally meaningless three day bans ,it's a complete joke , I've never heard of any other MMO where such behavior is just allowed to go on seemingly unchallenged .
    +1

    I'm not normally one to rage, or a doom-and-gloomer of any sort. But knowing that there are many people in this game who have cheated their way to the kinds of benefits I will be working towards for years is both depressing and infuriating.

    These people are directly responsible for an in-game economy which is now pretty much useless for new and/or FTP players. Prices are hyperinflated to the point where not only can't you legitimately grind enough AD to buy anything worthwhile but you'd have to spend a fortune in ZEN to get enough AD that way (even for those inclined to drop real cash).

    Neverwinter could easily be entering a death spiral here.
    Jenna Sunsoul - Justice Tankadin
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    adinosiiadinosii Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,294 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    iambecks1 wrote: »
    My confidence in the game is pretty much blown at this point , I'm sick of doing everything the legit and right way and taking months to get rank 8 - 10 enchantments and greater enchantments just to see some scumbags who only started weeks ago rocking full rank 10's and perfects despite never buying any zen ,too many exploits one after another with no action taken apart from rumors of totally meaningless three day bans ,it's a complete joke , I've never heard of any other MMO where such behavior is just allowed to go on seemingly unchallenged .

    My confidence pretty much went out the window with the "lucky players" response to a previous exploit. I have put quite a lot of money into the game....but, well, if I said what I wanted to say, my post would probably be deleted.
    Hoping for improvements...
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    hiukulimushiukulimus Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 117
    edited August 2014
    galaxy1045 wrote: »
    Hi,
    do you think it would help your confidence in PWE/Cryptic's business model if they come up with some numbers like
    • mule accounts banned due to the latest exploit
    • number of accounts banned with level 60 characters wearing enchantments > lesser (meaning they were probably played; a level 60 praying bot is not interesting)
    • AD taken out of the system due to account banns (sum of AD on accounts banned)
    • illegal obtained Z taken out of the system

    For me, it would be a bit satisfying to know that something has happened - and I mean more communication than "the perpetrators have been dealt with".
    I don't ask for naming or shaming, just some overall number to show me that it is still worth investing in this game and to the future players that using exploits is gonna get you banned for real. AND that (I hope this is true) disguising behind fake accounts is not working any more.

    So, please keep this civilized so it's not closed within minutes!

    In my opinion , numbers are pointless.. PWE doenst have to say anything.

    Who is inclined to expoloit will do it again and again.

    Akro did a nice job announcing the "Shut Down Server with the reason why ". Thats all.. Keep play legit and dont care about other ppl who risk a lot to gain a temporary benefits.

    One my only request is to at least know that those accounts got banned permanently without any possibility of restoring.But you know pwe policy, so we will never know.

    Enjoy the game now after many scumbags players have been erased from the game.
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    rando12467rando12467 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Players who exploit bugs or illegally obtaining zen including but not limited to buying from real world trading sites, of course, should be banned.

    But what is the big idea of banning players who legally made better than lesser enchantments? And praying has been a feature since day 1 of this game, why all of a sudden players should been banned for their piety? If they use bots to pray it is a different story since botters should always be banned.

    That said, bots and bug exploiters should be perma banned but you don't ban players who use the game features correctly. If you think it is too easy to make overpowering enchantments or AD then fix the drop rate of enchantments or rewards from praying, but never ban players who play according to the rule.
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    kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    galaxy1045 wrote: »
    For me, it would be a bit satisfying to know that something has happened - and I mean more communication than "the perpetrators have been dealt with".!

    Quite, we heard that about the stats exploit. People who abused that, bragged about it in-game and bragged publicly about how nothing would really happen to them got a three day suspension, and are back both in the game and the legit channel. There's literally no need to name and shame, as the specific guilds and individuals are rather well-known. Really makes you want to fork over truckloads of cash for zen, doesn't it?
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    mircalla83mircalla83 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 36
    edited August 2014
    kattefjaes wrote: »
    Quite, we heard that about the stats exploit. People who abused that, bragged about it in-game and bragged publicly about how nothing would really happen to them got a three day suspension, and are back both in the game and the legit channel. There's literally no need to name and shame, as the specific guilds and individuals are rather well-known. Really makes you want to fork over truckloads of cash for zen, doesn't it?

    And it really makes one not to go and post on every possible MMO site about the glaring holes in this game, and the slaps on the wrists you get, thanks to easy laundering.
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    maroon89maroon89 Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Hopefully they haven't released any public info because they're doing a huge investigation into this. But like someone else said, my confidence in this game is really shaken. I'm a casual player. I've bought 1500 zen with cash before and was contemplating buying a greater bag and a couple more character slots, but it's on hold now. This is my first try with the FtP games, been playing subscription MMORPGs since 2001, and while the game is fun, I can't abide playing with a bunch of exploiters.
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    galaxy1045galaxy1045 Member Posts: 95 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    maroon89 wrote: »
    This is my first try with the FtP games, been playing subscription MMORPGs since 2001, and while the game is fun, I can't abide playing with a bunch of exploiters.
    Does not compute.
    There are exploiters in every MMORPS since 2001. either you played alone or you played along exploiters and did not know it.
    There's always exploiters. The difference now is that the focus is on them. The interest in exploiters will drain away soon enough ... until they rise again.
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    maroon89maroon89 Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    galaxy1045 wrote: »
    Does not compute.
    There are exploiters in every MMORPS since 2001. either you played alone or you played along exploiters and did not know it.
    There's always exploiters. The difference now is that the focus is on them. The interest in exploiters will drain away soon enough ... until they rise again.
    Of course there's exploiters in every game, but it seems (my opinion here) that this game is riddled with exploits, and it seems punishment is lax which encourages them further. At least in my previous games, you always saw "Why was I banned?" crying posts which let you know the game was actively pursuing cheaters and whopping them with the ban hammer.
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    stah01stah01 Member Posts: 540 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I would like to see confidence building behaviors rather than these numbers. Things that don't feel like players are the enemy or a price gouging promotion. I mean it hasnt even been that long since this game came out and it has such a different vibe now.

    Lowered prices for zen shop items - What that number is, no idea im not in finance
    More weekly sales
    When you have a 4 day promotion, dont make it so you have to spend $100-$200

    I am probably considered a whale. I have extra money and can get in to these things easier than others. But we need free players too.. because I dont want to play alone =P. A bit off topic but my overrall point is, I want to see PWE/Cryptic doing more to take care of all types of players instead of making us feel likes its you against me.

    These bans should of happened long ago imo. They know these things happen and not hard to figure out who the players and accounts are even at a basic level.
    GShBCGl.jpg
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    calvin1tagcalvin1tag Member Posts: 322 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The easiest way to tell how effective they are at banning and controlling the AD sellers in the game is to just watch the gold spammers in game and watch the prices. The lower the price of AD the worse they are doing and AD sellers have gone from advertising at $20 to under $4 since I started that speaks volumes about how much these exploiters have stolen to sell since I started in Beta.

    BTW in another post there was an announcement from one of the gold seller sites that there were the largest mass banning's ever yesterday so hopefully there is some winning this war (even if it's temporary). I fear however the damage is done though at this point as the prices in game are so high and far out of reach for the average player that I'm not sure how long if ever they will return to normal (used to be 1 or 2 million for lock box mount when I started now it's 10 to 20 million less then a year later?! nuts).

    Cheers
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    vader6139vader6139 Member Posts: 79 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I don't have much confidence in any numbers or excuses they come out with. Realistically there is little I can do to verify what they say. All I ask is they at least try to fix some of the bugs and if they don't or cannot then that affects how and if I continue to play this game.

    Realistically there should be a dev comment on most if not all bug complaints at least acknowledging the issue. That is just simple customer service. Using the "help" feature leaves me empty because there is no acknowledgement of something I or others have pointed out. It almost seems once something goes live on the server then the attention to feedback stops.
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    goonlaughiegoonlaughie Member Posts: 67
    edited August 2014
    I wasn't here when the Caturday exploit occured, but can someone fill me on what measures they took on the exploiters?

    Were accounts banned (and alternate linked accounts)?

    Was the exploited AD deleted from the economy?

    What did they do about valuable items that were purchased with exploited AD by the exploiters?

    If they corrected that situation, then I can hope they will do the same here.
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    kattefjaeskattefjaes Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Hero Users Posts: 2,270 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    twilightwatchman wrote: »
    +1

    I'm not normally one to rage, or a doom-and-gloomer of any sort. But knowing that there are many people in this game who have cheated their way to the kinds of benefits I will be working towards for years is both depressing and infuriating.

    These people are directly responsible for an in-game economy which is now pretty much useless for new and/or FTP players. Prices are hyperinflated to the point where not only can't you legitimately grind enough AD to buy anything worthwhile but you'd have to spend a fortune in ZEN to get enough AD that way (even for those inclined to drop real cash).

    Neverwinter could easily be entering a death spiral here.

    Very nicely and evenly said. I am finding it harder to get motivated to get back in the game due to this, and things like the chest brokenness etc.. It makes you feel like some sort of sucker, actually buying Zen with cash now, as though you're in some way rewarding bad behaviour.

    (Leaving aside the question of elasticity of demand- the ludicrous prices are making this quite an expensive pastime, in any case).

    Also, in other news, free the pink bunnies!
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    jeffro9000jeffro9000 Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Knight of the Feywild Users Posts: 121 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    I would like to see an official post about what has been done in response to this.

    Honest players have suffered the most from what came to light yesterday, whether they are "free to play" or not. We see this in AH prices, gear/enchantment inequality, access to zen via the exchange, etc. These things all affect the enjoyment of honest players negatively. AD sinks, as many have called for, only provide unique and luxurious items for those who have broken the ToS and widen the gap between honest players and the abusers.

    In the end I feel like this is about quality of service and the integrity of the game. Honest players following the ToS and customers like myself deserve to see that they are valued and respected. Those who have paid nothing but who have honestly ground out their gear/items deserve to know that their time and dedication is appreciated.

    For those of us that have legitimately supported the game with time and/or money to feel our honesty is valued, a swift and fitting response is necessary. It is my opinion that past responses to abuse have been lax and ineffective. I hope recent events are taken more seriously so that honest players can be proud of their integrity, instead of feeling like suckers who have been taken for a ride.
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    iambecks1iambecks1 Member Posts: 4,044 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    goonlaughie wrote: »
    I wasn't here when the Caturday exploit occured, but can someone fill me on what measures they took on the exploiters?

    Were accounts banned (and alternate linked accounts)?

    Was the exploited AD deleted from the economy?

    What did they do about valuable items that were purchased with exploited AD by the exploiters?

    If they corrected that situation, then I can hope they will do the same here.

    They issued some temporary and some permanent bans but didn't get everybody who exploited ,one thing they did do was to take the ZAX and the AH offline for a period of time to make sure that too much exploited AD didn't get exchanged into zen or laundered.
    YourSecretsAreOurSecrets.gif
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    goonlaughiegoonlaughie Member Posts: 67
    edited August 2014
    iambecks1 wrote: »
    They issued some temporary and some permanent bans but didn't get everybody who exploited ,one thing they did do was to take the ZAX and the AH offline for a period of time to make sure that too much exploited AD didn't get exchanged into zen or laundered.

    Why temporary bans? Why didn't they get everybody who exploited? I know you probably don't know the answers to those questions as you are not Cryptic... but did they explain why they couldn't catch everyone who did it? It's simply not good enough to let something like that ruin the integrity of the economy of your game by only issuing temporary bans, and letting some get away with it. Absolutely not acceptable.
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    charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    goonlaughie wrote: »
    Why temporary bans? Why didn't they get everybody who exploited? I know you probably don't know the answers to those questions as you are not Cryptic... but did they explain why they couldn't catch everyone who did it? It's simply not good enough to let something like that ruin the integrity of the economy of your game by only issuing temporary bans, and letting some get away with it. Absolutely not acceptable.

    Cynical guess, the people that got temp bans had probably spent real money at some point.
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    sexwax45sexwax45 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The just don't want you to progress you can't get gear from the DD chests and you can't afford to buy it do to exploits causing inflation, which works for cryptic their answer buy more zen or spent $75 on a terrible pack. Their trying to run everyone out of the game before they release it to xbox so they won't have to worry about the pc version anymore.
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    valencayvalencay Member Posts: 431 Bounty Hunter
    edited August 2014
    sexwax45 wrote: »
    The just don't want you to progress you can't get gear from the DD chests and you can't afford to buy it do to exploits causing inflation, which works for cryptic their answer buy more zen or spent $75 on a terrible pack. Their trying to run everyone out of the game before they release it to xbox so they won't have to worry about the pc version anymore.

    yeaah it is funny how the center of this game is "gearing up" yet you cannot do it sice 2 weeks, and i know people with fresh lv60 that are blocked by this, what kind of company ruins its own game like that
    Aset Xharran, Oppressor CW
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    charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    valencay wrote: »
    yeaah it is funny how the center of this game is "gearing up" yet you cannot do it sice 2 weeks, and i know people with fresh lv60 that are blocked by this, what kind of company ruins its own game like that
    Sadly I think they look at random drops as normal and chests as a bonus which for the players doesn't work. It's a major disconnect between their office people and people that play the game. I don't think they even understand that most people consider their game completely broken at the moment.
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    sexwax45sexwax45 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    charononus wrote: »
    Sadly I think they look at random drops as normal and chests as a bonus which for the players doesn't work. It's a major disconnect between their office people and people that play the game. I don't think they even understand that most people consider their game completely broken at the moment.
    I could agree with that if everyone and their mother didn't try to kick you for needing on your own classes gear.
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    charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    sexwax45 wrote: »
    I could agree with that if everyone and their mother didn't try to kick you for needing on your own classes gear.

    Oh I'm not saying the players look at it that way. I'm saying the dev's have the delusion that it's that way.
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    sexwax45sexwax45 Member Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    magenubbie wrote: »
    You actually get to the point where you can need? Usually I -and the same goes for my guildies crazy enough to PuG- get booted as soon as they see the drop is for my class. Don't even get the time to pick need or greed. So we're doing guild runs only these days. Sometimes with /legit. Once the chests are fixed.
    lol yes but then got kicked before the loot roll finished
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    myowmyowmyowmyow Member Posts: 1,923 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    True permanent bans for exploiters would give me more confidence in the game as well as fixing the broken chests (although I rarely run those dungeons).

    A "perma-ban" in NW is only a seven-day ban, according to information I received from someone else who submitted a ticket - can't verify this is 100% true or not. I sure hope to see some news from Cryptic/PWE about lifetime perma-bans for cheaters and exploiters, which is the standard MMO-type ban for this type of activity.
    SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! SEC! (repeat indefinitely)


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