No doubt in my mind that mod 3 DC is less fun to play. For me the effect was complicated by a break - came back to experience the IWD grind and the new PVP (now with "extra reduced heals"TM). Neither is super fun for a DC - although I could speed things up on the IWD grind if I go back and grind for the High Prophet set which has no peer as far as pve dps goes. I can still be very useful in PVP - but my days of extended point contesting versus multiples are long gone. Had to spec out of Divine Oracle for PVP purposes. Man I miss BOTS. That slow *** BOB is so painful to use. PVP campaign - ha - enough has been said about that in other posts. My progress is glacial due to the amazing lack of tailoring any achievements to suit a support class. Even my GF finds it easier.
The thought of grinding for a T1 set when I already have Miracle Healer (and now the Grim PVP set) left me cold. As it stands - I wear my PVP gear, slot all DPS encounters (reg chains - div divine glow - div daunting light: fastest grouped mob dps rotation for me), and hope I don't get jumped during the horrid open world PVP daily tasks. Dodge, deflect and regen provide enough survival for mobs. At least completing the pve IWD quests as an Anointed Champion DC is faster than on my Swordmaster GF - that fella is borderline <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
I hope the big change is not just the arm pen fix. Of that I have entirely none due to it being fairly useless since - well - forever.
dont know what yall are talking about, my dc carries teams, you better believe that. we dont contribute to killing things? how does terror+highprophet+divine glow debuff + HG buff NOT make stuff die faster?
Edit: our gear does suck however, best is a t1
With the "New" PvP comes "Healing Depression" a buff that says "When hit, for 5 seconds all healing effects are reduced by 50%". I for one completely am angry at this. I did a couple of PvP runs since the changes to find out that clerics who focus on healing to survive is completely nonviable now. Here are some numbers.
Before patch Astral Shield healing
To allies: 600 per tick
to myself: 350 per tick
After patch Astral Shield healing
to allies who are hit: 300 per tick
to me who are hit: 175 per tick.
175 healing!??! That is completely trash when most people have around 25K hp... They could AT LEAST take out Righteousness, then at least we'd be healing ourselves as much as our allies...Even still, once we get hit(Which is always for a cleric...we get focused so much) then we can't do much to protect ourselves making us completely useless unless we go pure-damage...My final though on this is if you want to play a Cleric, build Pure tank and focus on ability that offers control such as the Area Effect knock back from Divinity Sunburst and the Chains...At least then you'd be a threat and still survive long enough to help yourself and your team gain points because apparently Cryptic/PWE hate healing. What are you guys thoughts and please offer me some tips and things on what I should change about my current cleric to be more effective for my teams?
P.S. THEY DIDN'T EVEN GIVE EVERYONE A FREE RESPEC!! UGH!
It would've made things much easier for me to just go "Okay...healing clerics are trash now, time to spec to tank." but no! I have to pay out of my pocket to be able to play the game how THEY want.
There you go! Healing in PvP at its finest and how Cryptic feels about fixing the mess that was made.
Testify my Brother!! I have been thanked in countless PvP games, not to mention in PvE for saving my team/Players OR helping my team stay alive long enough to kill the other team/mobs. I love playing DC and helping others survive in battle.
dont know what yall are talking about, my dc carries teams, you better believe that. we dont contribute to killing things? how does terror+highprophet+divine glow debuff + HG buff NOT make stuff die faster?
Edit: our gear does suck however, best is a t1
Says he can't share exactly what, but that some feat changes, etc. will make us DC lovers "feel good again" (my words paraphrasing) but in short: DC getting some DEVLUV!
In my opinion, other than a druid, other classes should not be able to heal, except with items providing regen, life steal, or potions.
Just wanna add that in 4E, druids are controllers, not leaders, so don't be surprised if they can't heal as efficiently as clerics when they are released (unless Cryptic changes the druid's role).
My first two character were DC and GF, funny enough. They have become my secondary characters over the months as I used my TR and CW the most. But I do prefer DC over GF these days, and yes there are definitely fewer DCs in the game.
A DC and GF were my first and second characters as well. Then I rolled a GWF, got it to 15k, but never really got into it. Couldn't get a CW beyond level 10 and my HR has stalled at 39. I'm either gonna respec my DC to a AC when the new re-roll token comes out and go PVPing with him - a well played and geared DC in PVP can be a match decider - or roll a new PVP-specific DC and twink it through PVP.
I believe that the proliferation of alt CWs and GWFs has a lot to do with lowering the demand for DCs. At 13k my GWF no longer had a need for a DC. AoW, Rank 5 darks in your defensive slots, neck and rings with Life Steal on them and you cover your own healing. Just wait for the sound of Singularity and go and heal yourself while doing crazy damage.
PSA: You don't need to grind Spinward Rise for your Elemental artifact main hand if you have some AD lying around. You can craft it via the Tyranny of Dragon's campaign screen.
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doriangreighMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 707Arc User
True, they aren't as useful here as elsewhere, but that's not the only reason. Tanks and healers in general are not played very often compared to dps classes, AoE or otherwise.
People simply don't like being passive because it doesn't give them that "hero" feeling. Seeing high numbers of damage is what gives most people that feeling. It's rare to see clerics in general really enjoying their class and it has nothing to do with being good at it. It takes a certain mindset to remain motivated as a passive player.
I kind of agree with your assessment although I think its more an ego trip. "I pwned you" "i did thiiiiiiiiiiis much damage" type thing. You don't generally do that playing tanks/heals/support classes. This game has a bad view of how things work as everyone has jumped on the dps band wagon and forgot how smooth runs can be in more ideal party makeups ... plus everyone is a rush to do everything in under 10 minutes not matter what it is ... you know the geared folks who like their toons but have reached max or near enough max that the only fun they can have is to pull an entire map of mobs causing lag and all sorts of unpleasantness just to get a thrill or challenge now. Dont' get me wrong nothing wrong with that its just that it's so common now that its become "how things are".
I personally like playing healers, I see more of what is going on, when i'm in DPS mode I really miss a bunch of whats happening but when i'm a DC I "see" a lot more. I played a tank in another MMO and in that game no one moved until the tank went in first, in this game ranged dps doesn't even wait for ANY melee to go in they just start in attacking anything in site and then get all pissed off when they have aggro and or die from their lack of wanting to let melee get some hits in before ranged dps takes them out.
The mentality in this game is bad in general and I doubt new classes are going to help it any.
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doriangreighMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 707Arc User
A DC and GF were my first and second characters as well. Then I rolled a GWF, got it to 15k, but never really got into it. Couldn't get a CW beyond level 10 and my HR has stalled at 39. I'm either gonna respec my DC to a AC when the new re-roll token comes out and go PVPing with him - a well played and geared DC in PVP can be a match decider - or roll a new PVP-specific DC and twink it through PVP.
I believe that the proliferation of alt CWs and GWFs has a lot to do with lowering the demand for DCs. At 13k my GWF no longer had a need for a DC. AoW, Rank 5 darks in your defensive slots, neck and rings with Life Steal on them and you cover your own healing. Just wait for the sound of Singularity and go and heal yourself while doing crazy damage.
I started as a CW then went GF then DC then GWF then to HR and then to another CW and soon to a SW. I personally found the HR my least favorite, refuse to play a TR although I may do one eventually in secret for fun. GF is just hard to play and feel effective, it takes solid groups to make my GF really helpful, people running around all over with no coordination what so ever makes playing a GF a pain. Especially with ranged dps insisting on attacking first before I can even build up threat. In a past MMO no one hit anything until I got 1 full rotation off to get the elites on me while they disposed of trash and moved on to the elite. But in this game a tank can't last long enough to do that and with the playstyle of most players you can't even bother to try to do that.
Sadly unstoppable is I think getting a nerf so it won't give the same DR as it did so you may end up wanting a DC now even if you have 1 or more GWF, CW's seem to be getting a nerf as well dps wise but seem to be making up for it in actually being able to control better, but from what I read it seems my thaumaturge is still going to do some good damage.
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doriangreighMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 707Arc User
edited August 2014
Overall I agree DC and GF are rare, however if you are looking for random queues if you play one of those classes you can get into a lot of queues lol.
GF isn't really desired for most groups even despite some being really good and helpful it just doesn't play to the "lets run through this as fast as possible and do mega pulls" that many like to do ... however into the fray does wonders for this.
DC doesn't really heal so much as buff or debuff in this game, frankly they should give them more powers that go to that effect if they aren't going to make them heal focus. The way this game is the cleric should have more powers that debuff and or feats that enchance debuffing than what they do. Typcially as a DC I pretty much run with chains, divine glow and AS, swapping chains for something else depending on needs. If i could get my HP boots i'd probably be running around in that T1 set instead of some of my nice T2 and 3 stuff that seems less useful than the T1 ...
PWE please will you make a higher tier armor set that offers an improvement to the HP set?
dont know what yall are talking about, my dc carries teams, you better believe that. we dont contribute to killing things? how does terror+highprophet+divine glow debuff + HG buff NOT make stuff die faster?
Edit: our gear does suck however, best is a t1
This is how I have been playing mine lately (sans Terror - not there yet gear-wise). I like to think it makes questing more efficient. My only request would be to make the Divine Glow circle a bit larger.
First off I feel we should have a resurrection daily. We already have a artifact that can do it. Also would like a turn undead power or a class bonus that let Clerics do more damage to the undead.
Add more PVP objectives for Clerics so we can actually do the PVP campaign. For example healing a player on the verge of death back to half his health x whatever.
First off I feel we should have a resurrection daily. We already have a artifact that can do it. Also would like a turn undead power or a class bonus that let Clerics do more damage to the undead.
Add more PVP objectives for Clerics so we can actually do the PVP campaign. For example healing a player on the verge of death back to half his health x whatever.
I whole-heartedly agree. Even the game cinematic intro video shows the cleric healing a player from near death. Presumably, had she had enough time, she would have completely healed the rogue.
I've played more MMOs than I'd like to admit, and the healing class (of which the DC is no exception, despite the fact that their method of healing is atypical) always gets a resurrect and/or emergency full-heal. I can't see how the Devs can justify the weakness of the DC class' healing powers.
Even one resurrect daily, or full-heal daily would feel like the DC class has finally reached an acceptable level of function.
Don't get me wrong - I love the way the combat system forces players to imbibe potions as if only alcoholics are allowed to loot purple gear, but having a DC be able to rez once a player's soulforge is on CD, or give a full heal to a tank that is carrying the group would make me want to play my DC.
Overall I agree DC and GF are rare, however if you are looking for random queues if you play one of those classes you can get into a lot of queues lol.
Indeed. When I queue with my CW, I often wait for 45 minutes or an hour. When my DC queues alone (or partied with a friend's GF) the wait is never more than a few minutes.
I have two DC's. My first character was a DC, as I stupidly assumed they were a wanted in groups. I level to 60 and start running dungeons, all is well at lower GS's then the people I run with finished their t2 sets and got thier gs up to 13+ I was basically useless. I could do either mediocre dps even specced for it or mediocre healing. Mitigation is nice but most players dont understand that or take advatage of ASh.
Eventually I just got tired of being a pet class and made a DPS class like everyone else.
TLDR - DC's are really only useful in lesser geared groups. Once your groups average gs is 13+ assuming they are not total morons there is no need whatsoever to take a DC, yes they can be nice but well most people I play with only take one if they feel like being lazy (ie standing in red etc) xD
May the RNG Gods smile on you today!
Adorable Temptress - 23.4k Temptation SW
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
You must've had very CAPABLE friends.. does it apply to CN last boss tho?
I once gone to CN as a 14k GS DC with HP and frost enchantment + soulforge, with 3 CWs @ 14k & 2 @16k, and a 15k GWF, still not able to beat the last boss, only able to scratch the boss till around 30-50% HP.. I dont know what went wrong then.. All i can remember is the CWs are mostly scattered (my astral shield isnt optimally functioning to the pt members) and my rotation is sunburst HW & AS.. Can I do better as a DC in this particular situation?
You must've had very CAPABLE friends.. does it apply to CN last boss tho?
I once gone to CN as a 14k GS DC with HP and frost enchantment + soulforge, with 3 CWs @ 14k & 2 @16k, and a 15k GWF, still not able to beat the last boss, only able to scratch the boss till around 30-50% HP.. I dont know what went wrong then.. All i can remember is the CWs are mostly scattered (my astral shield isnt optimally functioning to the pt members) and my rotation is sunburst HW & AS.. Can I do better as a DC in this particular situation?
Draco is really not that hard - most people just panic and make mistakes - of course this is not a pug either but a group of people who play together regularly.
May the RNG Gods smile on you today!
Adorable Temptress - 23.4k Temptation SW
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
I'd say as soon as players stop *****ing about pure heal clerics there will be more people playing DCs but considering temptation SW comming soon....I don't think healing spec clerics have a future
As for debuff clerics, those are just awesome and the guilds usually claim them fast.
I know this is an old thread, just thinking about getting back into the game, anyhow about the lack of DC's is they were lacking from the beginning and even more since they nerfed them a long time ago after that many quit playing their DC alts accept in pve occasions, they are just to hard, when I last played it was like they really had no real damage and their heals were kinda like lol, I am not sure what their heals are like today but after reading the articles what I am getting is you need to get him uber to have any survivability now so sad, devs sucks sometimes what can I say? in most practical situations regardless of the game the devs would take notice at the lack of play, guess not here oh well.
They get reworked in Mod 5, we will see in about 2 1/2 weeks how this works out. Even now many players would agree, that a good buff/debuff DC brings more to the party than most of the other classes.
Mod5 DCs will be in high demand for the DPS, with SWs taking care of the healing.
To be on par, mod 5 cat companion should bark.
Lol, clearly not the classic D&D, where the the cleric is the dps and the warlock the healer.
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doriangreighMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 707Arc User
edited November 2014
I play a DC except on hiatus ... getting very tired of some aspects of the game ... however when MOD 4 launched my CW and DC where my focus for building up ... my DC got queues like crazy, no waiting insta pop nearly everytime I queued. Most people like the buff debuffs DC offer so its really not hard to get picked up ... CW is highly desired but so many people play DPS classes and the way the queues work its quite a bit harder to get in a group through random queue, but you can still usually get picked up pretty easy in the LFG channel.
DC's are going to get soem changes from what i understand so that will either make them more popular or less i guess ... personally i like playing them so them not being flooded with everyone else playing them makes the game more enjoyable since I don't have to wait around forever all the time to experience content.
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inthefade462Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian UsersPosts: 0Arc User
edited November 2014
I'm sure it'll change but when they first rolled out the changes on preview mod 5 DPS DCs were doing more dmg than everyone except SW, GWF, and CW. I know they toned down fire of the gods feat but i hear DPS DCs are still pretty potent.
They get reworked in Mod 5, we will see in about 2 1/2 weeks how this works out. Even now many players would agree, that a good buff/debuff DC brings more to the party than most of the other classes.
I would really hope this isn't the case, I would want a DC in a party for healing and the buffs they can provide, SW should just be an alternative to this NOT a replacement. That said I do agree with a damage dealer path for DCs to give ppl another way to play them solo and in groups, much like GFs could use an improved path for this, but they shouldnt be dealing quite as much damage as a pure damage dealer class. I would hate to see everyone thinking that the "best" way to play a DC in groups is as a damage dealer because of this...
To answer the question though I would say DCs r definitely rarer to get in a group but I still always prefer one in a group with me as despite things like the life steal stat making part of the DC's role in groups as a healer almost not needed a lot of the time. Just because then I feel I don't need to rely on such stats to keep myself alive or excessive potions, that and their buffs can make a difference in groups already
Comments
The thought of grinding for a T1 set when I already have Miracle Healer (and now the Grim PVP set) left me cold. As it stands - I wear my PVP gear, slot all DPS encounters (reg chains - div divine glow - div daunting light: fastest grouped mob dps rotation for me), and hope I don't get jumped during the horrid open world PVP daily tasks. Dodge, deflect and regen provide enough survival for mobs. At least completing the pve IWD quests as an Anointed Champion DC is faster than on my Swordmaster GF - that fella is borderline <font color="orange">HAMSTER</font>.
I hope the big change is not just the arm pen fix. Of that I have entirely none due to it being fairly useless since - well - forever.
Edit: our gear does suck however, best is a t1
The "New" PvP and Clerics.
There you go! Healing in PvP at its finest and how Cryptic feels about fixing the mess that was made.
Makes that GS more challanging too ^_^
SO LOOKING FORWARD TO IT!!
Just wanna add that in 4E, druids are controllers, not leaders, so don't be surprised if they can't heal as efficiently as clerics when they are released (unless Cryptic changes the druid's role).
The rest still up-and-coming!
A DC and GF were my first and second characters as well. Then I rolled a GWF, got it to 15k, but never really got into it. Couldn't get a CW beyond level 10 and my HR has stalled at 39. I'm either gonna respec my DC to a AC when the new re-roll token comes out and go PVPing with him - a well played and geared DC in PVP can be a match decider - or roll a new PVP-specific DC and twink it through PVP.
I believe that the proliferation of alt CWs and GWFs has a lot to do with lowering the demand for DCs. At 13k my GWF no longer had a need for a DC. AoW, Rank 5 darks in your defensive slots, neck and rings with Life Steal on them and you cover your own healing. Just wait for the sound of Singularity and go and heal yourself while doing crazy damage.
I kind of agree with your assessment although I think its more an ego trip. "I pwned you" "i did thiiiiiiiiiiis much damage" type thing. You don't generally do that playing tanks/heals/support classes. This game has a bad view of how things work as everyone has jumped on the dps band wagon and forgot how smooth runs can be in more ideal party makeups ... plus everyone is a rush to do everything in under 10 minutes not matter what it is ... you know the geared folks who like their toons but have reached max or near enough max that the only fun they can have is to pull an entire map of mobs causing lag and all sorts of unpleasantness just to get a thrill or challenge now. Dont' get me wrong nothing wrong with that its just that it's so common now that its become "how things are".
I personally like playing healers, I see more of what is going on, when i'm in DPS mode I really miss a bunch of whats happening but when i'm a DC I "see" a lot more. I played a tank in another MMO and in that game no one moved until the tank went in first, in this game ranged dps doesn't even wait for ANY melee to go in they just start in attacking anything in site and then get all pissed off when they have aggro and or die from their lack of wanting to let melee get some hits in before ranged dps takes them out.
The mentality in this game is bad in general and I doubt new classes are going to help it any.
I started as a CW then went GF then DC then GWF then to HR and then to another CW and soon to a SW. I personally found the HR my least favorite, refuse to play a TR although I may do one eventually in secret for fun. GF is just hard to play and feel effective, it takes solid groups to make my GF really helpful, people running around all over with no coordination what so ever makes playing a GF a pain. Especially with ranged dps insisting on attacking first before I can even build up threat. In a past MMO no one hit anything until I got 1 full rotation off to get the elites on me while they disposed of trash and moved on to the elite. But in this game a tank can't last long enough to do that and with the playstyle of most players you can't even bother to try to do that.
Sadly unstoppable is I think getting a nerf so it won't give the same DR as it did so you may end up wanting a DC now even if you have 1 or more GWF, CW's seem to be getting a nerf as well dps wise but seem to be making up for it in actually being able to control better, but from what I read it seems my thaumaturge is still going to do some good damage.
GF isn't really desired for most groups even despite some being really good and helpful it just doesn't play to the "lets run through this as fast as possible and do mega pulls" that many like to do ... however into the fray does wonders for this.
DC doesn't really heal so much as buff or debuff in this game, frankly they should give them more powers that go to that effect if they aren't going to make them heal focus. The way this game is the cleric should have more powers that debuff and or feats that enchance debuffing than what they do. Typcially as a DC I pretty much run with chains, divine glow and AS, swapping chains for something else depending on needs. If i could get my HP boots i'd probably be running around in that T1 set instead of some of my nice T2 and 3 stuff that seems less useful than the T1 ...
PWE please will you make a higher tier armor set that offers an improvement to the HP set?
This is how I have been playing mine lately (sans Terror - not there yet gear-wise). I like to think it makes questing more efficient. My only request would be to make the Divine Glow circle a bit larger.
Add more PVP objectives for Clerics so we can actually do the PVP campaign. For example healing a player on the verge of death back to half his health x whatever.
I whole-heartedly agree. Even the game cinematic intro video shows the cleric healing a player from near death. Presumably, had she had enough time, she would have completely healed the rogue.
I've played more MMOs than I'd like to admit, and the healing class (of which the DC is no exception, despite the fact that their method of healing is atypical) always gets a resurrect and/or emergency full-heal. I can't see how the Devs can justify the weakness of the DC class' healing powers.
Even one resurrect daily, or full-heal daily would feel like the DC class has finally reached an acceptable level of function.
Don't get me wrong - I love the way the combat system forces players to imbibe potions as if only alcoholics are allowed to loot purple gear, but having a DC be able to rez once a player's soulforge is on CD, or give a full heal to a tank that is carrying the group would make me want to play my DC.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Indeed. When I queue with my CW, I often wait for 45 minutes or an hour. When my DC queues alone (or partied with a friend's GF) the wait is never more than a few minutes.
Eventually I just got tired of being a pet class and made a DPS class like everyone else.
TLDR - DC's are really only useful in lesser geared groups. Once your groups average gs is 13+ assuming they are not total morons there is no need whatsoever to take a DC, yes they can be nice but well most people I play with only take one if they feel like being lazy (ie standing in red etc) xD
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
I once gone to CN as a 14k GS DC with HP and frost enchantment + soulforge, with 3 CWs @ 14k & 2 @16k, and a 15k GWF, still not able to beat the last boss, only able to scratch the boss till around 30-50% HP.. I dont know what went wrong then.. All i can remember is the CWs are mostly scattered (my astral shield isnt optimally functioning to the pt members) and my rotation is sunburst HW & AS.. Can I do better as a DC in this particular situation?
Draco is really not that hard - most people just panic and make mistakes - of course this is not a pug either but a group of people who play together regularly.
Mara Angelbane - 22k Thaum CW, Vaya Con Dios 15.2k Dragon CW.
Mara Shadowskiss - 21.5k Destroyer GWF, Mara - 17.2k Sentinel GWF
Mara Duskwalker - 15.4k Healing DC
Mara Hawkeye -14.6k HR
Mara Spiritforge - 16.9k Tanky GF
Bad Religion - 14.7k Pew Pew DC
Mara Shadowstouch,Maara - TR's
As for debuff clerics, those are just awesome and the guilds usually claim them fast.
WTB Class Reroll please
To be on par, mod 5 cat companion should bark.
Lol, clearly not the classic D&D, where the the cleric is the dps and the warlock the healer.
DC's are going to get soem changes from what i understand so that will either make them more popular or less i guess ... personally i like playing them so them not being flooded with everyone else playing them makes the game more enjoyable since I don't have to wait around forever all the time to experience content.
I would really hope this isn't the case, I would want a DC in a party for healing and the buffs they can provide, SW should just be an alternative to this NOT a replacement. That said I do agree with a damage dealer path for DCs to give ppl another way to play them solo and in groups, much like GFs could use an improved path for this, but they shouldnt be dealing quite as much damage as a pure damage dealer class. I would hate to see everyone thinking that the "best" way to play a DC in groups is as a damage dealer because of this...
To answer the question though I would say DCs r definitely rarer to get in a group but I still always prefer one in a group with me as despite things like the life steal stat making part of the DC's role in groups as a healer almost not needed a lot of the time. Just because then I feel I don't need to rely on such stats to keep myself alive or excessive potions, that and their buffs can make a difference in groups already