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Please disable the leaderboard!
osterdrache
Member Posts: 480 Arc User
Lets summarize the situation:
- we have a system where u loose ELO points by winning
- we have a queue that sets you randomly against opponents. You have no chance choosing them.
- 80% of all matches (I played over a thousand since introduction of the leaderboards) are lopsided stompfests. Especially because the current matchmaking puts 7kgs players together with 18k gs players when the timeframe is too long in queue.
- because the leaver penalty is active even when it is 4vs5. This is actually funny: assuming the matchmaking would work properly, meaning equal teams facing each other, then you have no hope to win 4vs5. But assuming the matchmaking works not, why is there even a leaver penalty in the first place? Its not the fault of the players that the devs cant etablish a proper system. And still, about 30-40% of my pvp time I am standing afk. When I pug, about 30-40% of all matches were decided by the factors like leaving/crashed/afk players. Again something you just have to endure in pvp
- we had several exploits where u could manipulate ur stats or just avoid losses
I know many pvp players asked for such things as leaderboards but in the current state its just a meaningless joke. And I say this as someone who is constantly on page 1-3. But beeing ranked in such abroken system just feels… wrong!
I want a game lobby where you can choose ur opponents. God would that be awsome! Fight with and against the people YOU want. And where you dont have to wait and grind 10 matches to find one worth playing.
- we have a system where u loose ELO points by winning
- we have a queue that sets you randomly against opponents. You have no chance choosing them.
- 80% of all matches (I played over a thousand since introduction of the leaderboards) are lopsided stompfests. Especially because the current matchmaking puts 7kgs players together with 18k gs players when the timeframe is too long in queue.
- because the leaver penalty is active even when it is 4vs5. This is actually funny: assuming the matchmaking would work properly, meaning equal teams facing each other, then you have no hope to win 4vs5. But assuming the matchmaking works not, why is there even a leaver penalty in the first place? Its not the fault of the players that the devs cant etablish a proper system. And still, about 30-40% of my pvp time I am standing afk. When I pug, about 30-40% of all matches were decided by the factors like leaving/crashed/afk players. Again something you just have to endure in pvp
- we had several exploits where u could manipulate ur stats or just avoid losses
I know many pvp players asked for such things as leaderboards but in the current state its just a meaningless joke. And I say this as someone who is constantly on page 1-3. But beeing ranked in such abroken system just feels… wrong!
I want a game lobby where you can choose ur opponents. God would that be awsome! Fight with and against the people YOU want. And where you dont have to wait and grind 10 matches to find one worth playing.
Post edited by osterdrache on
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WTB Class Reroll please
Don't expect Cryptic to do it for you while someone runs PVP premades pugging the queue.
You can't force an even matchup when there's none in the queue.
Leaderboards don't even show skill, I seen this when I played on my 9k gs cleric and my whole team was under 11k gs and we fought the player who was 3rd on leaderboards....wth ? that one guy could have killed our whole team by himself but to make it even worse he had his guild friends and we just got massacred. No wonder people high on leaderboards have about 7k kills and only a few deaths because they seem to get weak players a lot.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
WTB Class Reroll please
Cant fix the bird flu by putting bandages on.
I personally dont care about the leaderboards. Disabling it wont do anything. Because of the problems with matchmaking and so on, I dont take any consideration for the leaderboards seriously really. Just because you dont like leaderboards doesnt mean it should be disabled for everyone else.
I pug most of the time so its annoying for me when I get a loss because of a bad team.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
As per my suggestion, the PVP community should band together for their own PVP scene. Run tourneys to have their own ladders. Those real pvpers who are not afraid of losing leaderboard ranking can participate, and over time eventually the top percentiles of the leaderboard will start to reflect the real good pvpers, instead of PVP guilds who farm pugs for ranking.
Have a sticky thread here with updates on ladders and tourneys, have one (main) for competition or a few dedicated pvp chat channels for discussions. Bottomline, be proactive and competitive as a pvper.
Unfortunately the PVP community is sorely lacking in that spirit, and it's become more of a casual pvp scene.
If it wasn't a pay to win then peoples ego's wouldn't be so high. It's usually the players who spend a lot to get strong who get very cocky and then they talk down to other players even though without there maxed out gear they are nothing.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
There is already a PVP only chat channel and you see what would happen in one run by players
If you are fighting your enemies knowingly, and can influence your own matchups with little randomness involved, then Leaderboards might make sense. Otherwise, I agree with OP that right now these stats are misleading and frustrating at best. I say this from various perspectives. In L60 PvP I've also been inside the top 10 pages, and outside. In L19 PvP, where I notice the Leaderboards are separate, it appears to be much worse~lowbie cleric w/ P.Vorpal etc, 100-5 KD ratio and page 12? The inbalance in this game has reached astronomical proportions. Leaderboards in this state of the game is no more than a mockery.
The two are mutually exclusive. Having both is a world-first achievement, sort of, by Cryptic.
1v1 balance would help to reach 5v5 balance. NWO is not the first MMORPG ever, they can see how pvp works in all the other MMORPGS and do the same.
Why do you care? Play to have fun.
Let those who have egos , have egos.
Doesnt bother me, nor does it bother me that people pay to get that way.
Also , for all the bellyaching about elo, HONESTLY how many times do you run into a premade with top end folks? 1 out of 20 matches? 30?
I got on a lucky streak with my CW and won like 20 something matches in a row the other week, I did pay the price for that and had 3-4 matches in a row against top, top end folks, where I got steamrolled.
But overall, I actually think the elo works, mostly.
I think Ive been in the top 100 pages a few times, but honestly barely look. This is just pure pugging it, with barely a guild run 1 out of 100 matches.
Why do we keep it then?
And you cant say that it doesnt have a psychological impact on player behavior.
I would love to have a leaderboard because I am of competitive nature. But it should at least work properly.
I also love ideas around tournaments, but with this random junk we call queue its more than unstable to find even a pmvspm.
Heck, I have seen games 20 years ago with better queue system and score system.
asking to remove it is akin to asking to remove pvp, guilds, foundry, gauntlegrym, professions, etc. some people use some of those things. some people choose not to use all of those things and some people use one or two of those features.
please respect others choices in play styles. i'm not going to shun people for not wanting to eat broccoli. every player should have the right to play in the way that makes sense to them based on the features offered.
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
I respectfully disagree with this entire post.
1) I don't remember any threads asking for a Leaderboard. Perhaps there were one or two posts. I remember multiple threads asking for new PVP maps, new PVP styles besides domination, and a way to set up PMsvPMs.
2) This is not at all like removing PVP or GG. Those are entire game modes or areas. This is simply a feature, and not a very good one, either.
3) The Leaderboard has far more negatives than positives: After winning, you often drop rank. It may significantly inflate or deflate someone's confidence. It feeds trash talking.
I'd say the primary benefit of the Leaderboard is that it shows how overpowered and unbalanced some classes are.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
How to fix things up and make Leaberboard a desirable feature for anybody, in just a few simple steps:
1. PvP Seasons. Leadeboard reset after each. Rewards for the winners.
Why? To avoid farming and to give newcomers a good chance of winning and becoming champions.
2. Fixing the "you win, you go down" anomaly.
Was explained numerous times why.
Important Clarification:
We understand that winning against low ELO/score pugs won't help our leaderboard position. Just do not decrease our score please - leave it the same. That will do.
3. Unranked queue, for fun.
Why? Because we sometimes wanna mess around and don't feel like committing 3 hours of our time to a game as pleasurable as a tooth extraction. Which brings me to
4. Limit the match duration. 45 minutes should do for ranked games I believe.
5. A way of running pre-arranged PMvsPM games. We should be able to choose adversaries for unranked games, to practice or whatever we wanna do in the arena.
I might have missed stuff, but this are a few quick points to make the Leaderboard what it is supposed to be, instead of something that it's destroying the PvP in the game.
1. here are five threads that are pre-leaderboard asking for or discussing a leaderboard option. there are more.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?140981-CRYPTIC-What-PvP-needs-to-be-a-success
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?482621-How-to-make-NW-competitive-as-a-quot-real-quot-full-time-mmo
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?359051-Just-a-couple-of-suggestions-feedback
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?538811-pvp-balance-at-level-60/page5
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?479321-Suggestion-PVP-Queue
2. respectfully, any of the things i listed could be removed from the game and it would affect certain players but not all players. i don't have to run gauntlegrym if it doesn't interest me. i don't have to join a guild if it doesn't interest me. the existence of those items in game isn't going to affect my game play. all i have to do is ignore it or not engage in it. if other people want to use those features, that also isn't going to affect my game play.
3. it was explained that it is possible to drop rank after winning matches because the leaderboard does not update in real time. there could be 100 matches going on at the same time you are winning your match. other players could be playing and winning 20+ matches in a row while you're only playing 10 matches before you quit. i don't need the exact mathematical equations to understand how that can affect the leaderboard. there may be other ways to enhance the leaderboard and other options that it could contain and if it's something they want to explore, i'm sure they will.
Everything you said, but this should be 15 minutes max. I think after 15 mins and the score being 100 to 120, you can call it a day and award a victory without hurting anyone's feelings.
As a corollary, if your team owns all three points, then you should be awarded points at a dramatically increased rate.
1. Those thread pale in comparison to other PVP threads asking for more maps, more modes, and ways to set up PMvsPMs. One doesn't even have any responses.
2. Yes, I can ignore the Leaderboard, that is true. I cannot ignore the negative impact it has on the game, players' attitudes, and the PVP community as a whole.
3. I don't understand the math behind it either. I just know Neverwinter was a much friendlier and better place before it was implemented. Most likely it will not go away, I get that. A person is simply in denial if they believe it betters the game.
Join Essence of Aggression: PVP-ing Hard Since Beta!
+1
I agree with almost everything you say and I'm a huge pvp player, I don't even play pve and I know that leaderboards in games make it worse for many reasons I could go on about. If they do have to be in the game then as I said, ranked and unranked search options would at least make it a little better because the leaderboards don't even work atm and with the bad matchmaking they don't even make sense.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Actually, no! A command could bring up a otherwise hidden window which PROVED!!! that you are loosing ELO RATING by winning.
It has nothing to do with leaderboard updates whatsoever. Can we pls stop that misinformation.
But guess what, it got fixed that you cant look into it anymore. Yeah, that was a fix this game needed… nothing else…
With all due respect, but reading such ignorant posts like the quoted above from an official Mod, it makes me angry as a COSTUMER who PAYS for this game!
Thing is, even if someone chooses not to use the leader board "feature", they are still affected by it. I feel people do things more for their personal numbers in a match instead of what is needed for the win. If you have fair lead in a match, why would someone care to put feet on the point and risk their K/D ratio? Same scenario, with a nice lead, why not spend more time waiting for team mates to drop an opponent's hp so you can get a KS?
So, ultimately, those who do not care for or use the leaderboard may experience poor gameplay from the ones who do on their team.
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?682991-Scoreboard-Rankings/page2&p=8127521&viewfull=1#post8127521
this is the explanation provided by the developer gentlemancrush:
so what you're saying is the majority of players are interested in the leaderboard and adjust their play style to benefit their board placement? if it's something that is detrimental to the game, i haven't seen a whole lot of feedback about it. it seems there is more feedback questioning whether the rating system/matchmaking/leaderboards are working properly.
while i was looking up the exact quote from gentlemancrush, i saw a post from panderus that reiterated what the moderators enforce regularly... and that is respectful and constructive feedback.
we understand people being frustrated but you can't expect anyone to fully understand what you want to express if you're not expressing it in a comprehensive manner.