aulduronMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 1,351Arc User
edited July 2014
Repel and Ice Storm are for soloing or for pushing mobs to their deaths. Nobody is going to make friends using them in groups for other purposes. Chill Strike and EF are always good powers for a lowbie CW grouped with big boys.
I've read some of those threads and I have bad news for you son. Remember when HRs were spamming splitshot and dragging the mobs all over the place? Yeah you'll be that guy.
I just laugh because all day long people call for nerfs on CWs and now that there's a chance that sing will be cap to five, which is not final yet btw, but could happen. Essentially going to the worthless dailies list, then the only ones left are those that scatters. So yeah, have fun with that. I'd like to see the run fest on CN especially at the wights hallway were tons of zombies rampages you. You say it's bad news for me but I see it more bad news for the team. In order to effectively gather tons of mobs, you will have to have multi CWs to do multi sings. Again, I find funny because CWs are going to get nerf to make other classes more desirable but I find the effect to be the opposite by lessening CONTROL to the CONTROL wizards.
I just laugh because all day long people call for nerfs on CWs and now that there's a chance that sing will be cap to five, which is not final yet btw, but could happen. Essentially going to the worthless dailies list, then the only ones left are those that scatters. So yeah, have fun with that. I'd like to see the run fest on CN especially at the wights hallway were tons of zombies rampages you. You say it's bad news for me but I see it more bad news for the team. In order to effectively gather tons of mobs, you will have to have multi CWs to do multi sings. Again, I find funny because CWs are going to get nerf to make other classes more desirable but I find the effect to be the opposite by lessening CONTROL to the CONTROL wizards.
Agreed, drop it's damage to nothing but keep the cap up so that the Control Wizard can control.
Note that in my post I said nothing of kicking... I wouldn't kick for this. I mean, I didn't even complain. Although I did clown around about it with emotes, a little. Like I said before I thought it was funny as hell.
I would only ever kick for two reasons and one reason is for being disrespectful. To anyone, for any reason. The other is for leeching. I know sometimes it looks like someone is leeching and they aren't, the kitchen curtains caught fire or whatever.. but they can grab the next skirmish in that case.
All that said, some people REALLY want that pet, and are doing skirmishes non-stop from wake to sleep. This particular one is ridiculously long, if done RIGHT. So I can understand those people getting irate when someone prolongs it. It has nothing to do with elitism.
It still does not take a rocket scientist to know that it is not going to make my day if someone repels the very dude I just fired my daily on, so that my daily just messes up the footprints he left behind. That also has nothing to do with elitism.
This topic is old. Repel-powers have been pissing off team-mates in online games since they first appeared. If you have a 60 GWF, it seems to me you might have clued your CW in a bit and saved him (and your teammates) some grief.
Hey there Chaoscourtesan, no worries, I agreed with your post. I saw that you did not discuss kicking. :cool: I do see where some players get quite intense when it comes to gaming, mainly when there is a prize at the end like a new companion to sell, but it is just that, a game.
When it comes to my GWF I do get annoyed when the player I am about to smash to the ground gets repelled by a CW or even a GF, but I just dust myself off and go after the target and make them pay for getting away. I would never consider kicking the player that used the power that caused me to chase them, and from what I am reading on these replies, apparently I am in the minority on that feeling. :eek:
I just laugh because all day long people call for nerfs on CWs and now that there's a chance that sing will be cap to five, which is not final yet btw, but could happen. Essentially going to the worthless dailies list, then the only ones left are those that scatters. So yeah, have fun with that. I'd like to see the run fest on CN especially at the wights hallway were tons of zombies rampages you. You say it's bad news for me but I see it more bad news for the team. In order to effectively gather tons of mobs, you will have to have multi CWs to do multi sings. Again, I find funny because CWs are going to get nerf to make other classes more desirable but I find the effect to be the opposite by lessening CONTROL to the CONTROL wizards.
I don't think anyone is saying that CWs won't have an important role in mod4. Personally I am against the new cap on sing. I am saying that if your response to the situation is to play in the most anti-social manner possible you should be prepared to be very lonely. Even if you ran ALL CWs you would be knocking mobs out of each other's AOEs. It's just poor play. Like a HR that grabs aggro he can't handle and spends the rest of the engagement running from them. Nobody wants to be in a party with that.
1. That player is using the worst skills to annoy your party members
2. That player decided to be thick-headed and keep doing it instead of reading chat and changing up their gamestyle
I'd kick that CW too and 4-man it
The players actions were not meant to annoy, or to be thick headed, they are learning the CW powers. It amazes me how many people are willing to condemn his actions and kick them from the party, but after 4 pages of replies, not person has suggested an alternative. which does give a new meaning to "community". It appears that kicking a player is easiest solution these days.
The players actions were not meant to annoy, or to be thick headed, they are learning the CW powers. It amazes me how many people are willing to condemn his actions and kick them from the party, but after 4 pages of replies, not person has suggested an alternative. which does give a new meaning to "community". It appears that kicking a player is easiest solution these days.
One of the other party members objected to the use of "Repel" by their wizard, and "demanded" they stop using it!
This means they did say something first and the CW ignored it. Most likely it could have been said nicer but it was said. That's what they were kicked for. Not the initial mistake as a new player. The failure to listen that made it look like they were trolling to try to make it harder.
The players actions were not meant to annoy, or to be thick headed, they are learning the CW powers. It amazes me how many people are willing to condemn his actions and kick them from the party, but after 4 pages of replies, not person has suggested an alternative. which does give a new meaning to "community". It appears that kicking a player is easiest solution these days.
I said initially I do not kick players who do this. I put them on ignore so as to avoid grouping with them again.
I don't think anyone is saying that CWs won't have an important role in mod4. Personally I am against the new cap on sing. I am saying that if your response to the situation is to play in the most anti-social manner possible you should be prepared to be very lonely. Even if you ran ALL CWs you would be knocking mobs out of each other's AOEs. It's just poor play. Like a HR that grabs aggro he can't handle and spends the rest of the engagement running from them. Nobody wants to be in a party with that.
That never was my response. I just alluded to you that if and when sing does get capped to 5, no CW would slot it as it will be a waste of daily. What do you propose will replace it? Of course there is OF, and then what? Ice Storm? Or perhaps the awesome Maelstorm? Think about it, it's not about being anti-social but if were to choose from those, what other option do you have? As of right now, high-end CWs running CN already alternate between sing and OF. If sing ever becomes useless, what would you slot? Mael is too slow and worthless. Ice Storm, possible for the damage, OF indeed for the dps but no CC, just stun, still scatters. Possibly Ice Knife for single damage to boss, but that's about it. You can harp all you want about being anti-social or lack of consideration of powers to choose but if you look down to it, no matter what, people will complain what CWs do.
I been playing for a long time and back then, people always complain about CWs when everyone was still gearing up. People complained how CWs they had never pushed and they had to fight to mobs and mobs. Then it was all about being sing bots. But complained how the AP was too fast and sing was coming up too fast. Then what? Too much damage? No matter what since the beginning of this game, people always had complaints for the CW. Mark my words, even as Mod 4 rolls around, people will still find ways to complain about it. Count the number of nerfs that happened to a class and you will notice that CWs have been the most nerfed and changed class from the beginning.
So back to what I said, get used to mobs getting scattered everywhere, if it's annoying now, it will be even more.
That never was my response. I just alluded to you that if and when sing does get capped to 5, no CW would slot it as it will be a waste of daily. What do you propose will replace it? Of course there is OF, and then what? Ice Storm? Or perhaps the awesome Maelstorm? Think about it, it's not about being anti-social but if were to choose from those, what other option do you have? As of right now, high-end CWs running CN already alternate between sing and OF. If sing ever becomes useless, what would you slot? Mael is too slow and worthless. Ice Storm, possible for the damage, OF indeed for the dps but no CC, just stun, still scatters. Possibly Ice Knife for single damage to boss, but that's about it. You can harp all you want about being anti-social or lack of consideration of powers to choose but if you look down to it, no matter what, people will complain what CWs do.
I been playing for a long time and back then, people always complain about CWs when everyone was still gearing up. People complained how CWs they had never pushed and they had to fight to mobs and mobs. Then it was all about being sing bots. But complained how the AP was too fast and sing was coming up too fast. Then what? Too much damage? No matter what since the beginning of this game, people always had complaints for the CW. Mark my words, even as Mod 4 rolls around, people will still find ways to complain about it. Count the number of nerfs that happened to a class and you will notice that CWs have been the most nerfed and changed class from the beginning.
So back to what I said, get used to mobs getting scattered everywhere, if it's annoying now, it will be even more.
I may be wrong, but I believe that furious immolation is still planned to be capped at 8. Not much but....
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seventhpillarMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
I may be wrong, but I believe that furious immolation is still planned to be capped at 8. Not much but....
That may be true but unless you are a MOF build. I was speaking for the SS but you are right. Then perhaps double or triple on MOF. That will solve the desirability for other classes
I predict for a CN run will be: CW MOF, CW MOF, CW SS THAU, DC and GWF.
That never was my response. I just alluded to you that if and when sing does get capped to 5, no CW would slot it as it will be a waste of daily. What do you propose will replace it? Of course there is OF, and then what? Ice Storm? Or perhaps the awesome Maelstorm? Think about it, it's not about being anti-social but if were to choose from those, what other option do you have? As of right now, high-end CWs running CN already alternate between sing and OF. If sing ever becomes useless, what would you slot? Mael is too slow and worthless. Ice Storm, possible for the damage, OF indeed for the dps but no CC, just stun, still scatters. Possibly Ice Knife for single damage to boss, but that's about it. You can harp all you want about being anti-social or lack of consideration of powers to choose but if you look down to it, no matter what, people will complain what CWs do.
I been playing for a long time and back then, people always complain about CWs when everyone was still gearing up. People complained how CWs they had never pushed and they had to fight to mobs and mobs. Then it was all about being sing bots. But complained how the AP was too fast and sing was coming up too fast. Then what? Too much damage? No matter what since the beginning of this game, people always had complaints for the CW. Mark my words, even as Mod 4 rolls around, people will still find ways to complain about it. Count the number of nerfs that happened to a class and you will notice that CWs have been the most nerfed and changed class from the beginning.
So back to what I said, get used to mobs getting scattered everywhere, if it's annoying now, it will be even more.
Well no. Look every other class in the game sacrafices some DPS for the party. The best DPS setup for a GF is LS, GW, and AoD. We never use it in parties because it does not improve run time due to it's lack of AOE and CC. Spamming splitshot still (after the nerf) creates a lot od DPS but it is bad for the party. If you want to be greedy then be ready to be lonely because after Mod4 the GF can group the mobs for the rest of the party and if you are determined to scatter them to fuel your own ego nobody will want to play with you. I've worked with Mod3 CWs who took oppressor and chill stacks for control that does not scatter and you know what? It works. But it works through teamwork not boosting your EPeen. And it ranks pretty well for DPS.
It can be annoying at times, but it does good damage and is only a small knockback. Ice storm does good damage but pushes mobs back significantly, OF would be a better choice or sing if OF won't take them out since grouping them up speeds things up. Repel is just awful and you are just hurting your team for using it. Bull charge is another encounter you should not use if you can't push adds off cliffs. Using any of those 3 hurts the team, can't think of anything else that would bother me though even if it's not efficient except not enough CC when needed on harder boss fights, oh and not having blue astral shields, but in a cta thats less important.
If you are going to repel everything expect the party to sit back and let you solo the dungeon or get kicked its quite rude as already mentioned. I play a cw and a rogue and each time another Cw uses repel i have a minirage because it messes everything up and slow down the skirmish/dungeon/farming.
Why would anyone use repel in this skirmish anyway? Why would anyone want a mob away from himself? Don't you want to kill it?
the only reason i can see this is the cw got hit once and feels the need to push it away and make everyone chase it so maybe it'll die before it hits them again.
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losttraverserMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 26Arc User
edited July 2014
you know the guardian fighters and great weapon fighters are just as bad about knocking stuff away dont know how many times ive had a group set up with steal time to hit with my avalanche and a guardian fighter or great weapon fighter comes along and knocks them out of range of my avalanche but i dont complain i just run the group down and still kill them. point is all the classes have pushes just the melee seem to complain about people using theres but think its ok for them to do it
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seventhpillarMember, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 216Arc User
Well no. Look every other class in the game sacrafices some DPS for the party. The best DPS setup for a GF is LS, GW, and AoD. We never use it in parties because it does not improve run time due to it's lack of AOE and CC. Spamming splitshot still (after the nerf) creates a lot od DPS but it is bad for the party. If you want to be greedy then be ready to be lonely because after Mod4 the GF can group the mobs for the rest of the party and if you are determined to scatter them to fuel your own ego nobody will want to play with you. I've worked with Mod3 CWs who took oppressor and chill stacks for control that does not scatter and you know what? It works. But it works through teamwork not boosting your EPeen. And it ranks pretty well for DPS.
Still don't get my point and never will I guess. My point was in mod 3 where the current state that CW still has very decent grouping control. Yes, everyone sacrifices for synergy on the dailies. My point was after mod 4 and sing becomes useless, get ready for the norm that CWs will skip sing and use other dailies. I feel like I'm repeating this over and over and you keep saying how "good luck for being non party friendly." The point being made is that CWs are losing a lot of control that generally helps grouping mobs. Am I a CW? Yes, that is true, but I also play GF, GWF, HR, TR and DC. I have all the classes, so you don't have to preach to me about synergy. Right now everyone is so used to CW > Sing! Just pointing that will not be the case. Stop going on your soapbox of people being greedy, it was never about that in the first place.
And this is my last post on this matter and clearly becoming completely OT.
Any CW that uses Repel/Ice Storm after warnings/being awared that it's not good should be kicked and should uninstall, period.
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khimera906Member, NW M9 PlaytestPosts: 898Arc User
edited July 2014
If you wanna play "toss the mob around" you better do it by yourself, not in a party. Anyone that uses unnecessary pushes needs to be kicked from the party, since they can't understand what being part of a party means.
Here are a few reasons why:
- you're making it harder for the Cleric to keep everyone healed;
- you're making it harder for the party to keep all the mobs CCed;
- you're slowing down the DPS, especially melee DPS;
- you're making it harder for the Tank to keep the agro.
I hate dancing with Lady Luck. She always steps on my toes.
I was going to make a thread myself to advice ppl -especially CW's- not to use powers like Ice Storm and Repel while in a party. I run skirmish quite often and I have noticed that about 90% of the CW's use those powers. I try to explain to them that we need to keep the mobs together to kill them easier otherwise it takes too long. I dont know why but most of the times ppl dont listen to me and just keep throwing the mobs apart. As other stated above it's ok to use those powers when you are questing alone but please NOT IN A PARTY. I hope those of you who use those powers read this thread.
I'm sorry but any Repel/Ice Storm using CW deserves to be kicked. Period.
Put yourself in Melee character's skin for a second. People constantly knocking back stuff making you miss your swings... yeah no thanks.
Thank you Pandora
First of all you are in a little arena so why exactly do yo need to Repel the mobs? Secondly it works much better if the mobs are pulled or kept together for the melee. Nothing more annoying than getting ready do unleash your IBS as a GWF and the mobs go flying away. Stop it already with the Ice Storm.
I understand that lower level CW's only have limited spells to choose from but there are other spells more useful to choose such as Conduit of Ice, Chill Strike Entangling Force etc.
Grouping up mobs is a standard way of running dungeons and some CTAS, thus the use of Singularity.
I think if its an event that you have no control over who is in the group you should not be able to kick someone, unless they are idle for too long and then the option should be given. Also should be rewarded according to the participation in the event which I think it does to some extent already. I think leaving the group would be the only option in this but doing so should trigger a fill in person who would have a decreased portion and of exp and items depending upon how much time is left in the event. Less than half and no end reward and the person filling in should know this as per a pop up message before agreeing to do it and join the group to help.
A CW Using repel , ice storm , shield or a GWF or GF using their annoying knockback skills are really annoying ,this skirmish is bad enough without people constantly knocking mobs out the way just as you are about to hit them with shard or sudden storm.
Not everyone speaks English, many use their localized versions of client, where each skill has his translated name. So good luck with explaining to people what is Repel.
Cryptic should make vote kick for AFK/disconnect reason in random parties only. I guess someones maybe be very frustrated with their lifes, the Repel delivers another reason. Get a life.
Ice Strorm is great in some situations when a lot of mobs gathers in same place around DC or tank, not bad. Lets see much attitude will change in next module, people will start kick for "why you don't push mobs, i'm dead because of that", because singularity will be nerfed.
Comments
2. That player decided to be thick-headed and keep doing it instead of reading chat and changing up their gamestyle
I'd kick that CW too and 4-man it
I just laugh because all day long people call for nerfs on CWs and now that there's a chance that sing will be cap to five, which is not final yet btw, but could happen. Essentially going to the worthless dailies list, then the only ones left are those that scatters. So yeah, have fun with that. I'd like to see the run fest on CN especially at the wights hallway were tons of zombies rampages you. You say it's bad news for me but I see it more bad news for the team. In order to effectively gather tons of mobs, you will have to have multi CWs to do multi sings. Again, I find funny because CWs are going to get nerf to make other classes more desirable but I find the effect to be the opposite by lessening CONTROL to the CONTROL wizards.
Agreed, drop it's damage to nothing but keep the cap up so that the Control Wizard can control.
Hey there Chaoscourtesan, no worries, I agreed with your post. I saw that you did not discuss kicking. :cool: I do see where some players get quite intense when it comes to gaming, mainly when there is a prize at the end like a new companion to sell, but it is just that, a game.
When it comes to my GWF I do get annoyed when the player I am about to smash to the ground gets repelled by a CW or even a GF, but I just dust myself off and go after the target and make them pay for getting away. I would never consider kicking the player that used the power that caused me to chase them, and from what I am reading on these replies, apparently I am in the minority on that feeling. :eek:
I don't think anyone is saying that CWs won't have an important role in mod4. Personally I am against the new cap on sing. I am saying that if your response to the situation is to play in the most anti-social manner possible you should be prepared to be very lonely. Even if you ran ALL CWs you would be knocking mobs out of each other's AOEs. It's just poor play. Like a HR that grabs aggro he can't handle and spends the rest of the engagement running from them. Nobody wants to be in a party with that.
The players actions were not meant to annoy, or to be thick headed, they are learning the CW powers. It amazes me how many people are willing to condemn his actions and kick them from the party, but after 4 pages of replies, not person has suggested an alternative. which does give a new meaning to "community". It appears that kicking a player is easiest solution these days.
OK I'm going to quote a part of your first post.
This means they did say something first and the CW ignored it. Most likely it could have been said nicer but it was said. That's what they were kicked for. Not the initial mistake as a new player. The failure to listen that made it look like they were trolling to try to make it harder.
I said initially I do not kick players who do this. I put them on ignore so as to avoid grouping with them again.
I'd kick that player just for that reason alone.
That never was my response. I just alluded to you that if and when sing does get capped to 5, no CW would slot it as it will be a waste of daily. What do you propose will replace it? Of course there is OF, and then what? Ice Storm? Or perhaps the awesome Maelstorm? Think about it, it's not about being anti-social but if were to choose from those, what other option do you have? As of right now, high-end CWs running CN already alternate between sing and OF. If sing ever becomes useless, what would you slot? Mael is too slow and worthless. Ice Storm, possible for the damage, OF indeed for the dps but no CC, just stun, still scatters. Possibly Ice Knife for single damage to boss, but that's about it. You can harp all you want about being anti-social or lack of consideration of powers to choose but if you look down to it, no matter what, people will complain what CWs do.
I been playing for a long time and back then, people always complain about CWs when everyone was still gearing up. People complained how CWs they had never pushed and they had to fight to mobs and mobs. Then it was all about being sing bots. But complained how the AP was too fast and sing was coming up too fast. Then what? Too much damage? No matter what since the beginning of this game, people always had complaints for the CW. Mark my words, even as Mod 4 rolls around, people will still find ways to complain about it. Count the number of nerfs that happened to a class and you will notice that CWs have been the most nerfed and changed class from the beginning.
So back to what I said, get used to mobs getting scattered everywhere, if it's annoying now, it will be even more.
That may be true but unless you are a MOF build. I was speaking for the SS but you are right. Then perhaps double or triple on MOF. That will solve the desirability for other classes
I predict for a CN run will be: CW MOF, CW MOF, CW SS THAU, DC and GWF.
WTB Class Reroll please
Well no. Look every other class in the game sacrafices some DPS for the party. The best DPS setup for a GF is LS, GW, and AoD. We never use it in parties because it does not improve run time due to it's lack of AOE and CC. Spamming splitshot still (after the nerf) creates a lot od DPS but it is bad for the party. If you want to be greedy then be ready to be lonely because after Mod4 the GF can group the mobs for the rest of the party and if you are determined to scatter them to fuel your own ego nobody will want to play with you. I've worked with Mod3 CWs who took oppressor and chill stacks for control that does not scatter and you know what? It works. But it works through teamwork not boosting your EPeen. And it ranks pretty well for DPS.
It can be annoying at times, but it does good damage and is only a small knockback. Ice storm does good damage but pushes mobs back significantly, OF would be a better choice or sing if OF won't take them out since grouping them up speeds things up. Repel is just awful and you are just hurting your team for using it. Bull charge is another encounter you should not use if you can't push adds off cliffs. Using any of those 3 hurts the team, can't think of anything else that would bother me though even if it's not efficient except not enough CC when needed on harder boss fights, oh and not having blue astral shields, but in a cta thats less important.
the only reason i can see this is the cw got hit once and feels the need to push it away and make everyone chase it so maybe it'll die before it hits them again.
Still don't get my point and never will I guess. My point was in mod 3 where the current state that CW still has very decent grouping control. Yes, everyone sacrifices for synergy on the dailies. My point was after mod 4 and sing becomes useless, get ready for the norm that CWs will skip sing and use other dailies. I feel like I'm repeating this over and over and you keep saying how "good luck for being non party friendly." The point being made is that CWs are losing a lot of control that generally helps grouping mobs. Am I a CW? Yes, that is true, but I also play GF, GWF, HR, TR and DC. I have all the classes, so you don't have to preach to me about synergy. Right now everyone is so used to CW > Sing! Just pointing that will not be the case. Stop going on your soapbox of people being greedy, it was never about that in the first place.
And this is my last post on this matter and clearly becoming completely OT.
Any CW that uses Repel/Ice Storm after warnings/being awared that it's not good should be kicked and should uninstall, period.
Here are a few reasons why:
- you're making it harder for the Cleric to keep everyone healed;
- you're making it harder for the party to keep all the mobs CCed;
- you're slowing down the DPS, especially melee DPS;
- you're making it harder for the Tank to keep the agro.
Thank you Pandora
First of all you are in a little arena so why exactly do yo need to Repel the mobs? Secondly it works much better if the mobs are pulled or kept together for the melee. Nothing more annoying than getting ready do unleash your IBS as a GWF and the mobs go flying away. Stop it already with the Ice Storm.
I understand that lower level CW's only have limited spells to choose from but there are other spells more useful to choose such as Conduit of Ice, Chill Strike Entangling Force etc.
Grouping up mobs is a standard way of running dungeons and some CTAS, thus the use of Singularity.
Cryptic should make vote kick for AFK/disconnect reason in random parties only. I guess someones maybe be very frustrated with their lifes, the Repel delivers another reason. Get a life.
Ice Strorm is great in some situations when a lot of mobs gathers in same place around DC or tank, not bad. Lets see much attitude will change in next module, people will start kick for "why you don't push mobs, i'm dead because of that", because singularity will be nerfed.
— (The unwritten rule)