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Suggestion: implement Utility Powers

ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
edited July 2014 in PvE Discussion
Currently, almost 99% of our powers is for offensive/healing purpose because of the combat orientation. There are actually powers which don't deal damage and are for utility purpose, such as buffing and defense. So they can add tactic/strategy elements into the game. They are Utility Powers.

Utility Powers can make every class more unique because unlike doing damage, which all classes can do, they reflect more about a class's special abilities.

Because Utility Powers don't do damage so they won't cause dps balance issues in PvE. But they can make existing PvE feel a lot different.

And in PvP, combat could be a lot more fun with these powers as they change the purely damaging fight into a more tactical/strategic fight.

From a Wizard player's viewpoint, Utility Powers really can make PvE and PvP becomes very interesting and different. In PvP, many CW players are frustrated with CW's low survivability and lack of defense. Imho, it of course has something to do with how melee classes were implemented. But the lack of Utility Powers is also a cause. In D&D, Wizard actually has many Utility Powers to aid it and increase its survivability in combat.

The following are some of Wizard's Utility Powers which could be very useful:

Expeditious Retreat
Increase run speed.
Invisibility
Become invisible.
Blur
Increase defense, and enemies at a certain distance can't see you.
Displacement
Reduce the chance of being hit by enemies.
Stoneskin
Increase damage resistance.
True Seeing
See invisible creatures.
Mirror Image
Create three duplicate images of yourself to confuse enemies. Each time an attack misses you, one of your duplicate images disappears.
Clever Escape
Become invisible and teleport away, and leave behind an illusory image of yourself to confuse enemies.
Dispel Magic
Remove harmful magical effects such as DoT.
Dimension Door
Teleportation. Could be longer-ranged in this game.


With Utility Powers, every class can unleash more of its potential, and our gameplay could be granted a new, different feeling.


P.S. With the introduction of Utility Powers, some of current powers might need to be revamped and recategorized as they are actually Utility Powers. For example, CW's Shield and Sudden Storm, GWF's Unstoppable, etc.
Post edited by ianthewizard2012 on
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Comments

  • pandora1xpandora1x Member Posts: 725 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    How is Sudden Storm an utility power? It hits so hard and is fatal.

    But yeah... How are you gonna slot these utility powers? In encounter slots? Most (not all) of the community are elitists and just want DPS. Do you really think they're gonna let some puny utility power decrease their DPS? :/

    This will be good if there was a new hotkey implemented just for it. As well as a icon on your bar.
  • bioshrikebioshrike Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 4,729 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    What would be interesting would be to offer a selection of powers that modify your shift ability. So, for instance, a CW might get a version of blink that makes you invisible while teleporting, and maybe a TR drops a smoke bomb at their location before somersaulting away...
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  • pyroknight7pyroknight7 Member Posts: 11 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    It would be awesome to have utility powers, but only if they add special slots for them. I wouldn't sacrifice my encounter slots for utility :/ And I'm sure most players agree with this. Although yeah, utility powers would make PvP and PvE more fun and challenging.
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Ok first of all with our limited encounter system adding any of this would be extremely difficult, however the addition of these is better left out in some cases and interferes with other design decisions in others.
    Expeditious Retreat
    Increase run speed.

    This would invalidate Dark Enchantment in utility slots.
    Invisibility
    Become invisible.

    Takes over the main power of the Rogue, bad idea, keep it out.
    Blur
    Increase defense, and enemies at a certain distance can't see you.
    A 20% chance to negate melee damage? Yeah overpowered much? Keep it away.
    Displacement
    Reduce the chance of being hit by enemies.
    Like blur but 50%, lets not even go there. This is such a bad idea.
    Stoneskin
    Increase damage resistance.
    They gave a version of this called boars hide to hunter rangers. Most people don't use it as there are better encounter powers.
    True Seeing
    See invisible creatures.
    Completely neuters the Rogue, keep it away.
    Mirror Image
    Create three duplicate images of yourself to confuse enemies. Each time an attack misses you, one of your duplicate images disappears.
    This I don't have a problem with. could be a good defensive encounter for wizards if implemented right.
    Clever Escape
    Become invisible and teleport away, and leave behind an illusory image of yourself to confuse enemies.
    In the game, called bait and switch, lets not give other classes powers to others and make all the classes the same.
    Dispel Magic
    Remove harmful magical effects such as DoT.
    Would cause balance problems as many classes rely partially on dots.
    Dimension Door
    Teleportation. Could be longer-ranged in this game.
    You have a short range teleport already.
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Of course they have to be slotted in their Utility Power slots. Imho, 3 ~ 6 Utility Power slots would be okay.

    According to PHB, Sudden Storm's original version is for creating difficult terrain of wind and rain. I'm not sure why it was changed to a damaging power in this game.
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    charononus wrote: »
    Invisibility
    Become invisible.
    Takes over the main power of the Rogue, bad idea, keep it out.
    Wizard doesn't "take over" anyone's main power. Invisibility is a long-existent power of Wizard. And unlike TR's Stealth, Invisibility conforms to D&D rules as the invisible person have to become visible on attacking.

    charononus wrote: »
    Blur
    Increase defense, and enemies at a certain distance can't see you.
    A 20% chance to negate melee damage? Yeah overpowered much? Keep it away.
    According to PHB, its effect in 4e is: Until the end of the encounter, you gain a +2 power bonus to all defenses, and enemies 5 or more squares away from you cannot see you. I'm okay to just implement the +defense part, and that is not overpowered.

    charononus wrote: »
    Displacement
    Reduce the chance of being hit by enemies.
    Like blur but 50%, lets not even go there. This is such a bad idea.
    Its effect in 4e: The attacker must reroll the attack roll. In this game, it could be implemented as increasing deflect chance.

    charononus wrote: »
    True Seeing
    See invisible creatures.
    Completely neuters the Rogue, keep it away.
    It's a legit Wizard spell and conforms to canon. No one is neutering any other class. It's just about an ability can counter another ability.

    And not only Wizard has Utility Powers, Rogue has Utility Powers, too. I don't quite know theirs, but from what I can see, many of their Utility Powers have something to do with Stealth. So it's fair.

    charononus wrote: »
    Clever Escape
    Become invisible and teleport away, and leave behind an illusory image of yourself to confuse enemies.
    In the game, called bait and switch, lets not give other classes powers to others and make all the classes the same.
    I feel it's actually Wizard's power be given to TR. According to PHE, Bait and Switch's original effect is damaging the target and switching places with the target.

    charononus wrote: »
    Dispel Magic
    Remove harmful magical effects such as DoT.
    Would cause balance problems as many classes rely partially on dots.
    Probably would cause balance problems in PvP. But imho, that results from the fatal weakness of the class which relies on dots since Dispel Magic is a legit D&D power.
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    As far as blur my mistake I was going off of my 3.5 knowledge of the spell. The rest of your counter points though would require a rewrite of the game system to make it work well. It's pretty much the same as asking for saves, dc's, and spell pen.
  • micky1p00micky1p00 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 3,594 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Can we please leave the rule book, this game is an on-line adaptation , it needs to conform to the holders of Intellectual property and copy right holders (wizards of the coast) wishes to get that nice shiny logo at the start and use what they need to use (monsters, lore, skill ideas), nothing less and nothing more. If you want a PnP simulator then get ready for turn based dice rolling grid... this is not it and should not be it.
    I'm not saying that the idea is good or bad, but claiming it will fit because it appears in D&D rule book is just a "no".
    Show how each will interact in PvE and PvP, wont break balance more than now, and actually usefull to be implemented and only then, imo, you have idea to work with..
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    micky1p00 wrote: »
    Can we please leave the rule book, this game is an on-line adaptation , it needs to conform to the holders of Intellectual property and copy right holders (wizards of the coast) wishes to get that nice shiny logo at the start and use what they need to use (monsters, lore, skill ideas), nothing less and nothing more. If you want a PnP simulator then get ready for turn based dice rolling grid... this is not it and should not be it.
    I'm not saying that the idea is good or bad, but claiming it will fit because it appears in D&D rule book is just a "no".
    Show how each will interact in PvE and PvP, wont break balance more than now, and actually usefull to be implemented and only then, imo, you have idea to work with..
    In fact, it is exactly those rule-breaking abilities which cause imbalance. It's okay that melee have some abilities to counter ranged classes as long as those abilities aren't too much. At the moment, as we can see, they are the main cause of imbalance in PvP.
  • masizin777masizin777 Member Posts: 181 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I remember people asking for this 4 months after the game came out of beta on the forum...
    All I got to say is I like it, somebody should find a use for ~-8-9-0 on the key board.
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  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    magenubbie wrote: »
    I kinda like the idea of a utility mage. But as a separate subclass. Adding powers like this to the current CW would be too much of a good thing. It would compliment the healer's ability to debuff and bring a nice new way of playing to PvP. .

    Of course some mods will have to be made to fit the game, but I'd give playing such a mage in PvP a try for sure. For starters, they all have to be single target. This would be how I'd implement the suggested utilities, based on a new type of wizard. This is not meant to be an addition to the existing CW's skills.
    Cleric, Fighter, Rogue, and Ranger have their Utility Powers, too. What I listed are just some of Wizard's Utility Powers. Since every class would get its own Utility Powers, it would be fair imho.
  • edited July 2014
    This content has been removed.
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Yes, I had mentioned in the first page that we need additional slots for Utility Powers.
  • eldartheldarth Member Posts: 4,494 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    masizin777 wrote: »
    I remember people asking for this 4 months after the game came out of beta on the forum...
    All I got to say is I like it, somebody should find a use for ~-8-9-0 on the key board.

    Never. Going. To. Happen.

    They already have every button usable on game controllers -- therefore, PC will not gain any more keys as they can't add buttons to game controllers and they can't have keys available on the PC that aren't available on a game controller.
  • ordensmarschallordensmarschall Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,060 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    Give the characters their skills. Characters are more than just killing machines, it would add a lot more flavour to the PvE campaigns.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • cookiecrisp15cookiecrisp15 Banned Users Posts: 532 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    maybe a trans up skill that empower ur character and give some of those abilites for certain amount of time (just my thoughts)
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    eldarth wrote: »
    Never. Going. To. Happen.

    They already have every button usable on game controllers -- therefore, PC will not gain any more keys as they can't add buttons to game controllers and they can't have keys available on the PC that aren't available on a game controller.
    Wireless Keypad.
  • eldartheldarth Member Posts: 4,494 Arc User
    edited July 2014

    ...for the PS3.

    How about the XBox?
    How about PS4?

    They also do not come standard with the game consoles -- are you going to by a wireless keypad for everyone?
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    eldarth wrote: »
    ...for the PS3.

    How about the XBox?
    How about PS4?

    They also do not come standard with the game consoles -- are you going to by a wireless keypad for everyone?
    Am I missing something? This game isn't on consoles that I know of.
  • ordensmarschallordensmarschall Member, Neverwinter Beta Users, Neverwinter Guardian Users Posts: 1,060 Bounty Hunter
    edited July 2014
    Staying with the Wizard utility spells that would not effect balance, but would add flavour to PvE.
    Light
    Comprehend Languages
    Detect Magic
    Identify - Yes you can buy Identify scrolls from the Bazaar, but still useful.
    Arcane Lock - Locks doors magically
    Darkness
    Knock - Unlocks doors magically
    Levitate - Not just yourself, but objects as well

    There are also a number of other spells with combat uses that don't do damage, but could be used if executed properly such as Wall of Stone, Maze, Hold Person, etc. Most would allow the Controller Wizard to actually exercise control on the battlefield.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • aulduronaulduron Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 1,351 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    charononus wrote: »


    Takes over the main power of the Rogue, bad idea, keep it out.

    Why? ITC gives immunity to what some people say is the CWs only purpose: control. As does unstoppable and block. Besides, they gave it to HRs.
    A 20% chance to negate melee damage? Yeah overpowered much? Keep it away.

    Again: 3 classes have temporary 100% immunity to control
    Completely neuters the Rogue, keep it away.

    It would only neuter one ability against one class. Even without stealth, a TR has no problem killing a CW. The Lantern already does this, and it didn't neuter TRs/HRs.

    Would cause balance problems as many classes rely partially on dots.

    And some depend on control, yet some classes have immunity to that.
    You have a short range teleport already.

    And it's mostly useless against anyone with Deft Strike, Threatening Rush or ranged powers.
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Imho, console's style doesn't work well with this game. In the game, there are many situations in which you need to type. Although you can use voice chat in party, it's impossible that you don't use zone chat, trade chat, private message, write mail, edit friend notes, etc.

    And most important of all, it would really be a pity that a good chance which could make the game more fun, tactical, and D&D-ish be ruined by console's limitation.
  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Imho, console's style doesn't work well with this game. In the game, there are many situations in which you need to type. Although you can use voice chat when in party, it's impossible that you don't use zone chat, trade chat, private messages, write mails, edit friend notes, etc.

    And most important of all, it would really be a pity that a good chance which could make the game more fun, tactical, and D&D-ish be ruined by console's limitation.
    Well the console doesn't limit any typing. If you've ever played FF11 or FF14 those both ran on consoles and all you have to do is plug in a wireless keyboard to your ps or xbox. My wife plays FF14 thru her ps3 and types with no problems with the keyboard. You also really haven't thought thru the game breaking way dnd utility powers would destroy all game balance, because you don't think like a powergamer. Invis run the dungeon, no problem now you only fight bosses etc.
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    charononus wrote: »
    Well the console doesn't limit any typing. If you've ever played FF11 or FF14 those both ran on consoles and all you have to do is plug in a wireless keyboard to your ps or xbox. My wife plays FF14 thru her ps3 and types with no problems with the keyboard.
    If console players can use wireless keyboards, then the issue of console's controller button limitation no longer exists.

    charononus wrote: »
    You also really haven't thought thru the game breaking way dnd utility powers would destroy all game balance, because you don't think like a powergamer. Invis run the dungeon, no problem now you only fight bosses etc.
    Utility Powers don't do damage so they can hardly cause balance issues.

    As for invisible run the dungeon, I can see its problem in this game because of content design. And some perma-stealth TR are already doing that. Though it causes no problem in another mmo.
  • arcmoon99arcmoon99 Member Posts: 499 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Sounds like an Illusionist. Which they will add eventually and will probably be the "Leader/Support" type class for the Arcane classes.

    I predict every class group(ex. Dungeonering, Arcane, etc.) will have one class for each role as a Leader(Support),Controller, Striker, and Defender.

    Control Wizards are the Controllers, Scourge Warlocks will be the Strikers, I predict Illusionist as the Leader class(due to using Illusion to aid allies and hinder foes), and the defender for the Arcane classes will most likely be the sword mage.

    Cryptic also appears to be trying to balance the amount of classes for each class group.
    We already have 2 Dungeonering , 1 Thievery, soon to be 2 Arcane, 1 Religion, and 1 Nature. I suspect that they will be adding Druid next to make 2 nature classes. Than I suspect either Bard will come out for thievery or Paladin will come out for religion. After they fill those roles and have 2 classes for every group. Than they will add to more classes to the other groups; which could possibly be Illusionist.

    All of that being said, the Illusionist probably won't be coming out until like 1-3 years lol. You'll be waiting for a very long time for these abilities to step foot in this game. Unless, similar abilities are introduced with the bard.
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  • charononuscharononus Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    If console players can use wireless keyboards, then the issue of console's controller button limitation no longer exists.



    Utility Powers don't do damage so they can hardly cause balance issues.

    As for invisible run the dungeon, I can see its problem in this game because of content design. And some perma-stealth TR are already doing that. Though it causes no problem in another mmo.
    I played that other game, it trivialized every single piece of content in the game. Before I left that game I was soloing epic elites. Most of it was because of utility powers letting me become a god.
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Illusionist Wizard is a Wizard "build" (in this game that becomes individual "class") just like Control Wizard is. It is still Controller.

    Dungeonering, Thievery, Arcana, Religion, Nature, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Acrobatics, ...... etc, are Skills. Martial, Divine‎, Arcane, Primal, ...... etc,‎ are Power Sources. Leader, Controller, Defender, and Striker are Roles. Bard is Arcane Leader. Druid is Primal Controller. Paladin is Divine Defender.
  • ianthewizard2012ianthewizard2012 Member, NW M9 Playtest Posts: 2,142 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    charononus wrote: »
    I played that other game, it trivialized every single piece of content in the game. Before I left that game I was soloing epic elites. Most of it was because of utility powers letting me become a god.
    I used to play that one, too. I did use Invisibility when I was soloing epic quests, and that was fun. But in groups, players would rather fight than being invisible so they didn't or seldom use Invisibility in most cases. Imo, there is nothing wrong with using that spell since in pnp using it is okay, too.

    Anyway, in this game I would be fine that Invisibility not be introduced because of content. Though it is a pity to see a wonderful Wizard spell not be introduced.
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