What do you think of the ToD changes?

squirtlejiggly

http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?692671-Tyranny-of-Dragons-Preview-Patch-Notes-NW-25-20140616d-2&p=8209811&viewfull=1#post8209811

Read here for more info!

Great Weapon Fighter
Determination gain will no longer be subject to variance. This will make Determination gain more normalized."
Mark: Mark effects will now taunt foes briefly as well as place the player at the top of the threat list.
Roar: This power has been fixed to no longer silence opponents for 2 seconds. Instead it correctly interrupts power usage. If a power is successfully interrupted, that power will be locked out for 2 seconds. This effect will no longer pierce CC immunity. Roar will no longer Root players for 2 seconds.
Takedown: This power now deals ~30% less damage.
Takedown: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. No change on NPCs.
Unstoppable: Unstoppable now grants 5-10% damage resist when activated (down from 25-50%)
Sentinel's Aegis Feat: This feat now causes Unstoppable to grant 5 times more damage resistance in addition to its other effects.
Unstoppable Recovery Feat: The heal from this feat will now properly respect healing depression.

Iron Vanguard
Frontline Surge: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. No change on NPCs.
Threatening Rush: This power now has 3 charges which refresh every 9 seconds.

Leave your feedbacks below!

beckylunatic

squirtlejiggly wrote: »

Leave your feedbacks below!

Leave your feedback in the appropriate sticky threads in the preview feedback forum, if you want the slightest chance that a dev will actually see it.

kolatmaster

Well we can still discuss it as GWFs fanatics here, however if you have anything constructive definitely follow beckylunatic's advice, please!

Overall, I think it's workable, aside from the 5-10% DR on Unstoppable. That I am hugely not a fan of as that directly impacts PvE a great deal, at least in theory. May need to switch Rampaging Madness to Endless Consumption if this ends up being the end product. I'd be 'content' with a 20-40% variance on Unstoppable DR, honestly.

The switch to Stun effects in PvP is understandable, though I may argue for longer Stun times...

Aside from that, I'll continue to review particularly the Threatening Rush changes. I use it in PvE pretty effectively, but I think a 9 second recharge is a bit much... I'd like to see 4-6 seconds cool down with maybe a 4th charge available. We'll see!

beckylunatic

yeah, if you just want to rant, feel free to hide it away in here. It looks better that way.

cilginordek

I think resistance nerf on Unstoppable is a bit too much

Just be calm when ranting about that and keep in mind you still don't have the worst class feature

hamletswords

Stuns can have all kinds of different durations- I don't think the change to stun was mean to lower the duration, but instead give classes with CC-breaks a chance to get out of it.

Have to wait to test to see if it's indeed shorter.

cookiecrisp15

hamletswords wrote: »

Stuns can have all kinds of different durations- I don't think the change to stun was mean to lower the duration, but instead give classes with CC-breaks a chance to get out of it.

Have to wait to test to see if it's indeed shorter.

TR ill ITC out of everything if it stays like that thou

query523

Iron Vanguard
Frontline Surge: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. No change on NPCs.
Threatening Rush: This power now has 3 charges which refresh every 9 seconds.

Again. Nerfing GFs because they gave GWFs a path they should never have had.

grimah

GWFs will require skill and movement to act as a dpser like the old days. Instead of ignoring everything around you and bashing buttons. 10% damage resistance only may not be enough to stay alive though, but until some dungeon runs can be tested its hard to say. This thread will probably get moved, because the people who have real feedback will be on the preview section, who have actually tried them. Not just read and rage.

kolatmaster

grimah wrote: »

Not just read and rage.

I didn't rage...

jdenn01

I joined during the beta months and made a GF, bought the packet, got the wolf and horse plus a big sword and loved him very much. Saw the armor nerf and the paragon changes. Left when it was hopeless in getting into a team for anything unless the guild was running. Been away for almost 6 months now. Based on the forum post it appears that the GF is still hurting and that coming back is not viable at the moment. Is there a reason to be a GF right now?

zacazu

about unstoppable: it's a bad change, people will explain why it is bad and, depending on the appeal, the unstoppable should close in 10-20% (would be reasonably fixed in 20% with some "resistance bonus aoe").

anyway, no more "feedbacks threads " to me.

query523

Yeah Zac that's pretty bad. Imagine if your only CC resist was a daily that came with no damage resist and no temp HP......

oicidraz

Wow, 5-10% DR while Unsto, from a GF I think that was a huge change, if before it was 25%-50% then a 20%-40% could be ok, (I'm not a fan of drastic changes).

zacazu

I'm not a pvp player. "unstoppable" is not my "cC resistance" but my aoe resistance .... why the large volume of damage in this game is here (And even the gf can not protect against this).

A projection was made ​​without regard to the dungeon + synergy with other classes. if the astral shield had been improved, ok. but... is just a random change. That change will be improved depending on the anger of the players (and not a suggestion of the same). I'm retired from this role. if module 4/ pve is cool and extensive, I play.

Do the SAME thing 495867867 times in "hardcore mode" because the class received a nerf ... no, no.

johoro

If the devs want to nerf our unstoppable that bad,I think I can be compromised with 20%-35% or 15%-30% but 5%-10% is what the heck despite our dodge mechanic suck.Or make it difference between PVP and PVE like GW2 did.

handofdonk

kolatmaster wrote: »

Well we can still discuss it as GWFs fanatics here, however if you have anything constructive definitely follow beckylunatic's advice, please!

Overall, I think it's workable, aside from the 5-10% DR on Unstoppable. That I am hugely not a fan of as that directly impacts PvE a great deal, at least in theory. May need to switch Rampaging Madness to Endless Consumption if this ends up being the end product.

Exactly where my mind was going.

I'm not a big fan of the Threatening Rush changes, especially since my respec Powerful Challenge is really making a difference, and I tend to like throwing marks around a lot. The increase in squishiness would certainly encourage a more measured playstyle for Destroyers, who (IMHO) would be wise to invest in a larger pool of HP in order to accommodate the dramatic increase in HP fluctuation.

How else will we compensate? Stack defense/deflect? Hybrid gear, a mix of Sent and Dest? (if we weren't doing this already?)

That having been said, I *love* the revision with Marks, it would allow for some great tactical options.

Sentinels will still be holding the line, of course. Could anyone else comment on their current performance, as it's not a spec I've really explored?

Will there be anything that will set the poor Instigators apart now, in terms of their role?

zacazu

in fact, with the nerfs on cw debuff, gwf lose damage too...

less damage = less life steal. that is, the above solution will only alleviate another problem.

well, at least the "gf fans" will not have more reasons to say that "gwf steals the gf role". let's see what they think the ranger do much more damage than the cw.

pherrow

Personally, the change to unstop seems drastic. The reasoning I understand, to simply keep destro away from pvp but this seems to go against the idea that gwfs are were the devs want them for pve(damage wise). It's nice to have the damage working like it is but with only a small dr buff from unstoppable, it will certainly be hard to manage all of the attention that damage attracts from the mobs. I agree that their should be a compromise, at least reaching up to 25% resist. I know I can manage a dungeon with that since you have to spam unstop when things get heavy meaning you are on the low side of the DR buff. Being a max of 25% would just mean you have to wait just a hair longer before activation, meh, I could adjust my playstyle for that..

Threatening rush adjustment I feel is a touch too much as well but whatever...sadly, the GF loses out here more than the gwifs.

What I wonder is whether or not our compromises would tip the scales a bit too much and keep the destro build alive in pvp? If thats the case, we coul more or less forget about them being accepted by the devs.

My rant portion is this...As a person who enjoys PVE and is also a hardcore pvp'er, I'm tired of all of the changes that occur before I'm even finished building my toons to accomodate the change prior.

handofdonk

I suspect that the DR reduction on Unstoppable won't be final, and that a couple of weeks on the test server will see fit to swing it back towards something a little more reasonable. As Pherrow said, about 25-30% would provide more of a happy medium, while still being enough to mitigate the carefree facetanking attitude that is inevitable among the higher GS GWFs at this point.

Perhaps this is to encourage the development of tactics playing off the GF's changes, peeling off suitable chunks of the opposition one bit at a time, exploiting the Combat Advantage, or reverting to playing Taunt-tennis with the adds, while the other party members burn them down.

Just speculating, perhaps adding a little more survivability onto the Instigator path, so that they occupy a middle ground between the Cannon Destroyers and the Tank Sentinels.

I am looking forward to seeing whether I can adapt to the changes sufficiently as I am, or whether my playstyle will require a radical rethink. I'm definitely going to miss the dependability of Threatening Rush, but I've found that occasionally I do attempt to moderate my use of it - at least until my Happy Pinball GWiF urges kick back in.

As I briefly mentioned above, we should be able to compensate to some degree for the changes with different equipment loadouts depending on the circumstances, we'll have to see how the changes affect performance that way, too.

Now, I'm off to test hybrid Corrupt BI with Purified enchantments. It'll be funnier with a 4-piece set, but unfortunately, life gets in the way...

EDIT: Actually, before I go off on one about Threatening Rush, I really ought to seek clarification as to whether it's 1 charge that regens every 9 seconds, or all 3. It's probably the former, but I can live in hope.

mertayan

''Iron Vanguard
Frontline Surge: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. No change on NPCs.
Threatening Rush: This power now has 3 charges which refresh every 9 seconds.''


Hi, this changes for GF or GWF?

vasdamas

Wow, my feedback? GWF has been brutaly mauled by the nerf hammer lol

I'd say I am happy, somewhat, but the people will start flaming me so oh well >.>

zacazu

To finish, I tested the ranger damage ... well ... I'm not opposed to buff somehow, but the alteration in unstoppable / cw damage as "balance argument" is absolutely ridiculous.

tang56

mertayan wrote: »

''Iron Vanguard
Frontline Surge: This power now stuns players rather than proning them. No change on NPCs.
Threatening Rush: This power now has 3 charges which refresh every 9 seconds.''


Hi, this changes for GF or GWF?

Both.

Unstoppable Changes: Destroyer gets hit pretty **** hard by the unstoppable nerf, you certainly won't be able to go anywhere without a DC and unstoppable will basically be a pure CC resist ability bar the ability to build destroyer stacks. No more emergency unstoppable to allow yourself to facetank a draco hand when you're out of stamina for instance.
Personally I would like to see this nerf lessened to a 15-30% DR for destroyer/instigator and the sentinel ageis change instead of a 5x unstoppable DR buff being a 2x buff.

Alternative: Make unstoppable also give 20% increased deflection and 10% deflection severity, this would make deflect based builds a thing since imo deflect is pretty much an ignored stat for GWF when selecting gear and enchants.

Roar change: Finally. Much needed.

Threatening rush change: This hurts GFs far more than GWF(imo a 2-3 sec ICD instead of the 9 sec charge is a better solution, perhaps with GFs getting a feat to reduce the CD on threatening rush).

Alternative: reduce it's range by 50% and give it a 0.5 sec ICD so it can't be spammed to follow a target.

Takdeown change, I think one or the other is ok, but not both. a 30% damage reduction and removing the prone is really an evisceration of the power in PvP. The stun does not last nearly long enough to be useful(like many stuns, see every CW power and griffons wrath).

Alternative: Takedown now stuns your opponent in PvP for 0.3 secs and applies a 50% slow for 2 secs(similar to smoke bomb). This would allow for a GWF to still land an ability after a takedown, provided they are watchful of the opponents dodge counts.

Frontline Surge change: Similar to the takedown change, I'm not impressed. This a) severely hurts GFs and b) makes the fact that is it a mid range melee encounter rather pointless if they just shake of off. I would leave the prone as it is but reduce the range to 15'.
For GFs I would change the feat trample the fallen to additionally increase the range of the GF's stuns and prones by 5/10/15/20/25%

Eventually I'll muster up the willpower to copy my HR and CW over to PTR as well.

query523

zacazu wrote: »

I'm not a pvp player. "unstoppable" is not my "cC resistance" but my aoe resistance .... why the large volume of damage in this game is here (And even the gf can not protect against this).

I was pointing otut hat the GF gets CC resist from a daily that has no mitigation AOE, temp Hp, or otherwise. So your 'nerf' is still better than our daily and 2 of our best powers got nerfed because they work badly on your class.

zacazu

ok, query; gf is horrible. this is the point? haha

bucklittle

I've had a chance to test some GWF on the PTR.

The biggest change to me, is that IBS can be dodged after both takedown and frontline surge, even if an At-Will isn't used in between.

Both of these abilities are now subject to CC resist. Using an At-Will after your stuns is no longer an option. Hope your opponent has high ping and isn't able to dodge your IBS. They are just barely able to dodge IBS, so if your opponent doesn't have low ping they shouldn't be able to dodge IBS.

My tests were all done against a race with the +10% CC resist racial. So if IBS can't be dodged by other races, it also makes races with +10% CC resist that much stronger in PVP.

fuzzychaos13

Unstoppable Nerf to 5-10% is way too much, that takes away the point of the build completely.
It should be 10-20% thats A lot more fair then leaving it at 25-50%.
10-20% is completely viable and its still more then a 50%- nerf.

5-10%? might as well just reroll another class before mod 4 is released.
5-10% is over the top Dev's. Please look into this and adjust accordingly listen to GWF feedback please. as all there has been the past month is GWF hate, and it came to this? 5-10%? from 25-50%? show me some numbers for the match here please.

icyclass

tang56 wrote: »

Destroyer gets hit pretty **** hard by the unstoppable nerf, you certainly won't be able to go anywhere without a DC.

Did you see the DC changes? NONE.
I'm kind of surprised there's anyone still playing DC as it is; there will probably be even fewer after another module that doesn't help them at all.

ripyourlipsoff

oicidraz wrote: »

Wow, 5-10% DR while Unsto, from a GF I think that was a huge change, if before it was 25%-50% then a 20%-40% could be ok, (I'm not a fan of drastic changes).

They can still get high DR on unstoppable but will need to spec for it. No more DPS bursting crazy GWFs with ridiculous damage mitigation! Now they will need to choose extra dps or extra survivability... As they should

ripyourlipsoff

tang56 wrote: »

Both.

Unstoppable Changes: Destroyer gets hit pretty **** hard by the unstoppable nerf, you certainly won't be able to go anywhere without a DC and unstoppable will basically be a pure CC resist ability bar the ability to build destroyer stacks. No more emergency unstoppable to allow yourself to facetank a draco hand when you're out of stamina for instance.
Personally I would like to see this nerf lessened to a 15-30% DR for destroyer/instigator and the sentinel ageis change instead of a 5x unstoppable DR buff being a 2x buff.

Alternative: Make unstoppable also give 20% increased deflection and 10% deflection severity, this would make deflect based builds a thing since imo deflect is pretty much an ignored stat for GWF when selecting gear and enchants.

Roar change: Finally. Much needed.

Threatening rush change: This hurts GFs far more than GWF(imo a 2-3 sec ICD instead of the 9 sec charge is a better solution, perhaps with GFs getting a feat to reduce the CD on threatening rush).

Alternative: reduce it's range by 50% and give it a 0.5 sec ICD so it can't be spammed to follow a target.

Takdeown change, I think one or the other is ok, but not both. a 30% damage reduction and removing the prone is really an evisceration of the power in PvP. The stun does not last nearly long enough to be useful(like many stuns, see every CW power and griffons wrath).

Alternative: Takedown now stuns your opponent in PvP for 0.3 secs and applies a 50% slow for 2 secs(similar to smoke bomb). This would allow for a GWF to still land an ability after a takedown, provided they are watchful of the opponents dodge counts.

Frontline Surge change: Similar to the takedown change, I'm not impressed. This a) severely hurts GFs and b) makes the fact that is it a mid range melee encounter rather pointless if they just shake of off. I would leave the prone as it is but reduce the range to 15'.
For GFs I would change the feat trample the fallen to additionally increase the range of the GF's stuns and prones by 5/10/15/20/25%

Eventually I'll muster up the willpower to copy my HR and CW over to PTR as well.

You wanna Tank spec for it! You wanna DPS, bring a tank...