80k zen available for sale

rashylewizz

Looks like Cryptic's plan of an ad-sink is working for now.

I'm glad they took the route of implementing AD sinks instead of the short-sighted raising of the ZAX ratio cap.

Like I always say, learn from history. Don't make the same stupid mistake Blizzard did with the D3 real money auction house. Embrace gaming history, no matter how limited its uses are.

hadokendo

The chicken egg from the Wondrous Bazaar at 1.2m a piece. It's only temporary.

rashylewizz

starbigamo wrote: »

oh thank you, but i have no interest in chiken eggs other than to eat then lol

The augmented chicken pet is BIS for augment pets. It doesn't matter too much realistically, but high end and rich players will want the best.

The cockatrice pet is really good and annoying in open world pvp

drinnth

While it is good to see the ZAX recuperated, it may be temporary. Many may have canceled their buy bids to get back ADs to cash in on eggs. Once the profits have been traded/received due to egg farming, we may see the ZAX back to where it was before the event. While I hope this is not the case and while many AD may have been removed from the system by egg purchases, I just have this feeling it will redline again once the egg event is complete.

rashylewizz

drinnth wrote: »

While it is good to see the ZAX recuperated, it may be temporary. Many may have canceled their buy bids to get back ADs to cash in on eggs. Once the profits have been traded/received due to egg farming, we may see the ZAX back to where it was before the event. While I hope this is not the case and while many AD may have been removed from the system by egg purchases, I just have this feeling it will redline again once the egg event is complete.

Of course the ZAX will revert back, because the demanded goods in the zen store still exist (keys, black ice packs, account wide mounts, weekly sales). You have to balance it. Hopefully, we get a few more items here and there for diamonds and that module 4 might bring in more gear that can be bought with diamonds

drinnth

The problem isn't Zen goods existing, the problem is sufficient Zen supply. There will almost always be people who want to trade AD for Zen, esp those who are mostly F2P. The problem is when the Zen supply dries up due to no new Zen purchases with an overwhelming demand for purchases. The recent 1mil Zen in purchases listed on the ZAX does not breed much confidence in this market. When the players that purchase Zen dry up, you will not be able to trade AD for Zen. Also remember, the big demand to get 1.2m AD right now to buy eggs is a big draw, but that draw is for a limited time. Once the event is over, some of those Zen to AD conversion bids may most likely disappear and return us to the Zen vacuum we were at before the event.

rashylewizz

drinnth wrote: »

The problem isn't Zen goods existing, the problem is sufficient Zen supply. There will almost always be people who want to trade AD for Zen, esp those who are mostly F2P. The problem is when the Zen supply dries up due to no new Zen purchases with an overwhelming demand for purchases. The recent 1mil Zen in purchases listed on the ZAX does not breed much confidence in this market. When the players that purchase Zen dry up, you will not be able to trade AD for Zen. Also remember, the big demand to get 1.2m AD right now to buy eggs is a big draw, but that draw is for a limited time. Once the event is over, some of those Zen to AD conversion bids may most likely disappear and return us to the Zen vacuum we were at before the event.

Nope.

Sufficient zen supply is achievable if the players want diamonds over zen. You have to go to the root of the problem: players did not want/need AD anymore when they saw the stuff they could buy in the zen store. Now that cryptic has introduced a single new item, you can see that it has a great and immediate effect from -100k down to +80k for a total 180k zen reversal.

Of course, when the event is over, the players will have little reason to keep their AD because the keys/mounts/profession packs/weekly sales in the zen store are far more desirable. Give the players more AD sinks in the future and the trend will go back to a balanced ZAX ratio.

This mini event was merely a test/band-aid. I have been preaching it all week and I'm glad Cryptic finally followed (whether intentionally or most likely not) my advice.

drinnth

There are no need for AD once the event ends, as you said, this means all Zen for sale will most likely be removed from the system because those who have the Zen will no longer need AD, this will again bankrupt the ZAX and it will redline again to 500AD/Zen and the offers for Zen will skyrocket again. They currently have no AD sink a player would want to use willingly. They are going to have to come up with some decent AD sinks to attract people to sell Zen. Without these sinks, ZAX will stagnant. But PWE/Cryptic cannot make any of their lame AD sinks that people will not buy into, they will either have to keep releasing new "egg traps" for special companions on a consistent basis and even then the player base will eventually catch on or just not want the companion. Granted there will always be collectors that need and AD millionaires that will buy and sell and make a profit and you may catch the occasional Zen hoarder that will convert to AD but that will become a rarer feat, unless these new items become "must haves". You have to remember the Zen buyers are in small supply. There are more F2P than Zen buyers and it will always be thus. This simple fact drives the need for Zen to always be much higher than AD. The want/need for Zen is much stronger than the want/need for AD. Simple supply and demand. Unless all the F2Pers become instant millionaires or something, but would you buy Zen then or go do something more fun with that million?

rashylewizz

What's stopping cryptic for making new events? Eventually making rank 11 enchantments? This is the progression every single MMO makes. The trick is extending the life of the current tier to extend the life of the MMO.

130k zen available for purchase at the moment, 10k of them listed at 499AD. This event, as little as it is, has already been a huge success for what it was sought out to accomplish. It also reinforced my point on the current needs. Hopefully, cryptic takes note

drinnth

Nothing is stopping them from making events, but to continuously grind out new content over and over to make AD sinks will just not last forever, you will eventually run out of cool new must have companions to purchase for 1.2m AD. And once the event ends and ppl no longer need AD, do you really think those people are going to leave those zen sales up for grabs. I don't. They will be cancelled the moment the event ends, since there will no longer be a need for AD, ie, you better buy your Zen now while you can. It goes out of stock the day the event ends and will not be in stock until Cryptic releases the next 1.2m AD pet event or whatever new AD sink is devised.

This is a temporary measure at best as you have stated before, until something with more permanence or a stream of events with special limited time buy only now 1.2m AD pets, you will eventually reach your pet limit cap and then you will need Zen to increase that count. Make sure you get that Zen now before its gone, gone, gone!

Of course, you do realize that now we might actual have the opposite happening. If the AD sink worked to well, there will be little to no AD left in the system. If this is true, then Zen buyers will not be able to buy AD no matter what price they list. This could adversely effect the ZAX in the opposite direction and while would be a boon for people with AD, would significantly devalue Zen. PWE/Cryptic doesn't win with Zen devalued.

They really need to get an economist on board as soon as possible. Or if they have one, they might want to check his credentials twice because redline 500AD/Zen is just as bad as 50AD/Zen, there needs to be a balance, if the system is off kilter, either way, bad things will happen. That is how MMO economies get destroyed and games can end when the economy does not work. Players leave when the economy is broken, no players, no game. You may get die hards and the occasional new player, but once they realize the economy is broken, they don't stay very long.

For the moment, I tend to like this game and I really don't want to see it crash. While an MMO's economy crashing is not as severe, you should check what happens when stock markets crash or just look at the recent US recessions. Not fixing this problem relatively soon could have long and harsh consequences.

silverquick

All it really tells me in the end... is that there's too many people who want a free ride... and not enough people paying into the system.

So...

Obviously there's a shortage of Zen, and a bunch of people with AD.

SO you're going to have to start paying into the system if you want the Zen.

That my friends is the bottom line.

mircalla83

Personally, with the last developments regarding the 'service' provided, I actually HOPE that the Zen Economy grinds to a standstill again. One interesting thing I have seen is: Recently, the previously well known 'usual suspects' for massive Lockbox opening are more or less inactive, so that means they can't get enough Zen or keys to continue their actions (or recovering is slower for them, due to them no longer being able to pawn off coals, and having to go through other avenues to turn their TTBars into something profitable).

drinnth

There may be a solution to all this. It start with Coalescent Wards and it could probably end with them. Sell Coal wards in the Wondrous Bizarre. Maybe add them as an extremely rare world drop. Make them slightly more pricey that the zen purchased ones, says 550k AD, maybe as high as 750k AD and watch the AD drain out of the system as ppl buy them. They would have to sell for more than the Zen purchased Coals for this to work I think. This would also increase the purchase of normal coals from the Zen store as player may buy them there and sell on the AH to compete with the Bazaar price.

You could try to trade for Zen to buy the cheaper ones if Zen was present or pay the AD tax and buy them at a premium or possible find one cheaper on the AH. I think coals are about the only thing players might consider paying a higher cost. Bringing down mount and companion improvement to be more in line with the cost of a zen mount and being slightly higher might drag some AD and Zen out of the system as well. Another current loser is decorative AD costs to modify armor/weapon appearance, a decrease in cost may get ppl to actually spend the AD necessary for modifications, possibly adding in a style system similar to Champions storing all your different styles for each slot or add some kind of wardrobe function.

There are some existing sinks, you just have to price them so that people will actually use the sink, you could even have the costs directly effected by the ZAX, making them float based on the current best exchange rate.

mircalla83

drinnth wrote: »

Coal Suggestion

Actually, BtA Coal at 750k might do the trick. Lets see.....at maximum Zen Rate, you pay 500k for a Coal, when purchased with Zen.
At the lowest rate I have seen since I started playing (300).....300k. So the Zen ones would ALWAYS be cheaper than the AD ones - but when there are Zen for Sale, maybe people would start dumping Zen into Shopcoals. Or, when we run out of 'available' Zen, a 'Free' Player could still buy at a 50% Markup over 'Max Rate if there were actually Zen for Sale'.

degraafination

silverquick wrote: »

All it really tells me in the end... is that there's too many people who want a free ride... and not enough people paying into the system.

So...

Obviously there's a shortage of Zen, and a bunch of people with AD.

SO you're going to have to start paying into the system if you want the Zen.

That my friends is the bottom line.

Not enough paying into the system? Well, since module three I've seen around 1,000,000 ZEN turn around in the ZAX daily. Do the math and that's around $100,000 per day in revenue. Multiply that by 30 days and yes, Cryptic is taking in around $3,000,000 per month just from Neverwinter. Mind you, this is an estimate, and it also doesn't include things like promotional packets.

I'd say they're doing just fine.

dragoness10

The listing for Zen yesterday on request I saw at a low of 493 AD per zen FILLED. It was there one second, and gone the next.

It's regular around 495-496 as a low now.

Keep submitting requests for cheaper Zen! They will get filled. You just need a little patience.

If you don't want to waste in game time waiting for the order then just make your listing right before you log off for awhile/ go to sleep/ go to work/ etc, and when you get back it'll most likely be filled. I'm used to doing that since in my time zone the cheapest Zen is often for sale when I am asleep.

rashylewizz

silverquick wrote: »

All it really tells me in the end... is that there's too many people who want a free ride... and not enough people paying into the system.

Welcome to the world of F2P MMOs, where 90% of the playerbase actually make cryptic lose money and the 10% reimburses everyone else.

This is why people need to have perspective when businesses make decisions. Its also funny sometimes seeing players who cost cryptic money every day talk out of perspective and act like they are king

rashylewizz

drinnth wrote: »

Of course, you do realize that now we might actual have the opposite happening. If the AD sink worked to well, there will be little to no AD left in the system. If this is true, then Zen buyers will not be able to buy AD no matter what price they list. This could adversely effect the ZAX in the opposite direction and while would be a boon for people with AD, would significantly devalue Zen. PWE/Cryptic doesn't win with Zen devalued.

It depends how many AD sinks cryptic implements. If they start introducing rank 11 enchants, legit tier 3 gear, BIS companions and 150% movement mounts which are all easily available through AD (meaning you aren't overpaying for them unlike enchanted keys), we will see a temporary shortage of diamonds.

But then again, cryptic can just introduce a new lockbox, have a 15% off keys sale, introduce a vital new profession and profession packs exclusive to the zen store and people will revert back to zen

rayrdan

degraafination wrote: »

Not enough paying into the system? Well, since module three I've seen around 1,000,000 ZEN turn around in the ZAX daily. Do the math and that's around $100,000 per day in revenue. Multiply that by 30 days and yes, Cryptic is taking in around $3,000,000 per month just from Neverwinter. Mind you, this is an estimate, and it also doesn't include things like promotional packets.

I'd say they're doing just fine.

Dude you are prolly missing some 0 in your math

rayrdan

rashylewizz wrote: »

It depends how many AD sinks cryptic implements. If they start introducing rank 11 enchants, legit tier 3 gear, BIS companions and 150% movement mounts which are all easily available through AD (meaning you aren't overpaying for them unlike enchanted keys), we will see a temporary shortage of diamonds.

But then again, cryptic can just introduce a new lockbox, have a 15% off keys sale, introduce a vital new profession and profession packs exclusive to the zen store and people will revert back to zen

And no... enchant powercreep should not be the solution.
Powercreep is always bad.

rashylewizz

rayrdan wrote: »

And no... enchant powercreep should not be the solution.
Powercreep is always bad.

You have to understand that the purpose of that suggestion was to illustrate some forms of AD sinks in the future that could drastically change the balance of the ZAX.

ryugasirius

drinnth wrote: »

There are no need for AD once the event ends, as you said, this means all Zen for sale will most likely be removed from the system because those who have the Zen will no longer need AD, this will again bankrupt the ZAX and it will redline again to 500AD/Zen and the offers for Zen will skyrocket again.

Except, the only way to get a Cockatrice/Chicken in the following weeks/months will be to buy them off AH, that is, again, AD only, @6-7mil per chicken!

rayrdan

devaneio wrote: »

Sell re-roll attribute scores for 2.5M AD in woundrous.
Race change 5M.

This would be a great and usefull AD sink

rashylewizz

ryugasirius wrote: »

Except, the only way to get a Cockatrice/Chicken in the following weeks/months will be to buy them off AH, that is, again, AD only, @6-7mil per chicken!

And just as Cryptic will need to keep introducing new items/sales on the zen store to make zen attractive, of course they will need to introduce more AD sinks in the future to make AD attractive.

I don't get why people are taking a doom and gloom approach about how the world is going to end once this event ends. It is a process, not a simple answer.

zebular

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