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Zen market suggestion
spongebob56
Member Posts: 234 Arc User
With the recent coal change I've given some thought about the Zen market. The Zen market, to me, just doesn't seem like a viable way for Cryptic to make money. Many of the items are rather pricey and "nice to haves" rather than "must haves". So my idea for change:
1. Put coals and preservation wards in Wonderous Bazaar for AD. These are needed items for player progression.
2. Put all Zen market items in lockboxes except keys, respec tokens, rename tokens, character slots, and slot extenders (bags, bank). Account wide items are made single toon items. This includes everyone's favorite purple mounts.
The end result is the Zen market just sells keys and the few items mentioned above that don't go in lockboxes. And you can bet they will sell a lot of keys. When I first started playing the game I was really against lockboxes as they are like buying lottery tickets. But the cost is so cheap and the draw of winning something awesome out of them is hard to resist. That is the magic of microtransactions: you easily lose track of how much you dump on them. I believe with this type of change Cryptic will make substantially more money than they are now by trying to sell high cost items.
What do you think?
Edit: added additional items that should only be sold in Zen market.
1. Put coals and preservation wards in Wonderous Bazaar for AD. These are needed items for player progression.
2. Put all Zen market items in lockboxes except keys, respec tokens, rename tokens, character slots, and slot extenders (bags, bank). Account wide items are made single toon items. This includes everyone's favorite purple mounts.
The end result is the Zen market just sells keys and the few items mentioned above that don't go in lockboxes. And you can bet they will sell a lot of keys. When I first started playing the game I was really against lockboxes as they are like buying lottery tickets. But the cost is so cheap and the draw of winning something awesome out of them is hard to resist. That is the magic of microtransactions: you easily lose track of how much you dump on them. I believe with this type of change Cryptic will make substantially more money than they are now by trying to sell high cost items.
What do you think?
Edit: added additional items that should only be sold in Zen market.
Post edited by spongebob56 on
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If I want a specific mount or a companion, I will not put money into a chance at it that might also net me one of the fashion sets that I hate, or a blood ruby, or a mount or companion but the wrong one.
It wouldn't matter if I could sell my prizes or not, because it simply would not happen. I'm not willing to bleed money for the sake of maybe getting what I want.
Keys are fun. I spend some money on keys, but I have zero expectations regarding what results I might obtain with them. They are optional.
Having to win the lockbox lottery in order to expand your bank/bag or companions slots or respec your powers? The words I would use to describe that are not allowed on these forums.
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You could also just take the items you won that you didn't want and sell them in the AH. And with the AD you make from them buy the mount/companion/whatever from the AH. Problem solved. If you don't have enough AD to make up the difference you could either play the game and get some AD or buy more keys
I guess those items could be added for Zen. Will amend post.
They will not share their numbers because they are a private company. But I can assure that it is literally the opposite of what you you may believe is the case. They are making hundreds of thousands a month. At least that, if not a million or more. This is the beauty of their free-to-play recipe: even though you feel those prices are too high, there are a lot of others who do not feel that way, or at least will just bear it to buy the stuff they want (I'm want of those people).
Because we do buy stuff from the Zen Market (and at those, admittedly unGodly prices), you get to play 100% for free. As for Coalescent Wards: you can grind for them or you can save-up your own Astral Diamonds and exchange them for Zen points. Do NOT complain that no one is selling Zen Points right now because they are. There simply happens to be a lot more people wanting them than there are selling them.
Which brings to mind: Why do people not sell AD for ZEN early, then just let the Zen sit there until they want to spend it, for example: on Coalescent Wards?
Want a Coalescent Ward THAT badly? Then buy it. It's still the same 500K AD, only you're spending legal tender instead.
The coupons, close of sales, and subsequent coal change clearly show otherwise. Mod 4 may have projected costs they are trying to offset too.
That is nice but off topic. I have seen your other posts about what you view as freeloaders. I am more concerned with open character progression while ensuring Cryptic (and PWE) are kept in the green to continue this game for years to come. How much or little people invest, with real money, in the game is important because of this. The lottery system is a very successful real world system that can accrue large amounts of money if done properly and I believe the game has the basis for extending what it already has to do it. I also believe the current Zen market may deter new players or give those who look at it the wrong impression.
You cannot put the genie back in the bottle either. Those of us that bought packs to get account wide features should not lose these features.
Key are a gamble. I just buy them when i want to gamble.
I have three active and a purple account-wide mount I purchased from the Zen store. It was an awesome purchase. That isn't to say it was good for the dev though. If I had 13 toons and had to open lockboxes for purple mounts I would spend a lot more money. But that is the point right? And purple mounts aren't an item you have to have either so they are not blocking character progression.
Grandfather clause.
I'm not suggesting that change either. No one would be required to buy keys to progress in the game.
State your sources. whoops, you don't have any, other than what you personally perceive.There's nothing wrong that, as long as you don;t try to pass it off as 'fact'. If you have actual Cryptic-supplied data, then (and only then) will I 'eat my words' on the subject. You really need to read what you're writing.
Careful there, Tiger. Malice is (possibly) a bannable offense. I have never, ever, called or accused anyone of being a "freeloader" - that is your word that you are attempting to put into my mouth. Having an "entitlement attitude" does not a "freeloader" make. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Words have actual and specific definitions for a reason.
So, don't go there.
Here's the facts, Jack: I buy a lot of the stuff from the Zen market and otherwise. I know, for a fact, that my purchases are subsidizing the 100% free play that many people practice. And, if you are so genuine in your claim to have read my previous posts, then you are applying malice through omission: because you will also have read that I always proclaim, always have proclaimed, and always will proclaim that I not only support this paradigm, but actively champion it as a great idea. Hence you are leaving that part out, and using a derogatory word I have never, ever used.
Therefore your misinformation in attempt to make me look like the "greater-than-thou bad-guy" simply will not work. I know I am fortunate that I can afford the prices in the Zen Market and even willing to pay them. If it allow YOU to play for free without spending a dime, then I think that's great. The point of my original comment is that I am not the only one, there are many, many, many of us. A lot more than you, apparently, can even fathom. And that's okay.
If you want to call yourself a "freeloader" that's your choice. But never forget: that is your word, not mine.
As for your suggestion - fair enough. My personal feedback: it's bunk and it will never happen.
You have my permission to have the last word... er, I mean 'flame' against me. Try your best to at least make it truthful. Oh, and by the way: I already know I'm a jerk, so tell us all something we don't know.
//done
I already gave them. As for me not seeing the current market as viable, I already stated that was my opinion of how it is. Regardless, I am actually talking about a way to increase sales. More money to the devs is not a bad idea is it?
I believe we are talking about a different subject. I am only concerned with the Zen market. If that *is* what you are talking about please explain exactly which part of my suggestion to the Zen market you find as not a good idea and a reason why.
It doesn't take research to conclude they are having issues when they make dramatic changes that alienate a large portion of their player base. It is just not something you do if the money machine is working well.
There were tons of threads stating that Coalescent wards were too expensive when they were 250K. Back then people were complaining about the tarmalane bar nerf. This change is just mind boggling. It is very uninviting to new players. I'm taking a wait and see approach and I'm logging in less and less each week.
Yes. And its less of a gamble since with the lockboxes you always technically win. And if you win stuff you don't want you can always sell them to buy stuff you do want.
Same. I never have and never will open these things.
Casino's are heavily regulated. They are required to post the odds and they are required to prove that those odds are accurate.
We have no way to know what the odds are on these boxes and no way to know if there are bugs with their random number generator. This is real $ that people are gambling with.
I still do not see any positives from a buyer's standpoint, honestly. If I am starting a game and I go to look at their cash shop to see how they model it and its essentially 100% chance based, I leave or simply never spend a penny on it. Its as simple as that in my opinion.
Unlike gambling at a casino or lottery tickets the lockboxes are 100% win. But I do agree they probably could add some percent chance notes on the items in the box for the chance of winning it. Even something on the wiki would be nice.
I imagine there is a large population who will not spend a penny regardless of what is in the market. But you have a higher chance of getting someone to spend $1 as compared to $30 on virtual items. These types of systems are very effective as long as the cost is low and the results are worthwhile. Lockboxes are pretty darn good in this regard.
This exactly. Give me something to buy, not a chance for it. Or I'll just go elsewhere.
Can you honestly imagine a system like this anywhere else? If it honestly meant more profits, why do you only see this in MMOs? Can you imagine if your gas station did this? Roll the dice and you might get gas or you might get a car wash and an air freshener. Sure, if you're lucky you might be able trade that for something you really want. You might even get enough gas to get off the lot. Or how about a fast food chain. Spin the wheel, you might get a burger or perhaps a happy meal toy and your picture taken with a clown. Hope you didn't come hungry.
It's not a win if you get something worth less than the key used to open the box. While I don't open these things, there have been numerous posts that have shown that unless you open thousands of these things (and sometimes even then) you will end up on the losing side.
It's still gambling.
Could you imagine walking into a supermarket and you can't buy anything outright, you need to buy keys that open up sealed bags of random food?
Make no mistakes, the whole concept of lockboxes is designed to feed peoples gambling addiction.
where? When?
A city to protect
innocents to save
"Why?" They ask "they hate you"
We're heroes it's what we do.
*patiently waiting on Paragon City*
Personally, I don't care if a game offers a lottery style option in the cash shop as one of their choices (gamblers have a chance to make profit if they want); I think its perfectly fine and a viable market strategy for the people who like to take risks. My issue is when you ONLY have a lottery style option in the cash shop (which is essentially what you are advocating).
You've apparently never played a game on a mobile device or Facebook. Micropayment systems are VERY popular nowadays. Generally those same systems don't give players the capability to sell items they purchased (like an Auction House). That MMO's use similar systems is not that surprising as they have been doing it for many years.
My gas station does. It has lottery tickets at the register. They make more profit on them than they do on gas.
My suggestion would likely mean a slight increase on what drops. For example the desire for purple mounts would far exceed their current drop rate from the boxes. This would drop their AH cost so you could still say you "lost". A lot has to do with your perception of winning.
Except what you are proposing is that the gas station only sell lottery tickets (with which you might win some gas or a candy bar or a coffee or a magazine), instead of directly selling lottery tickets and gas and candy bars and coffee and magazines so that people can just get what they want.
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#2 I hope never comes to be ever. In any game ever. EVER.
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Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
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For example it seems to me there are 4 core revenue models:
1) Microtransactions
2) Box sells
3) Subscription fees.
4) Box sells + subscription fee
It is strange to me that 1,2,4 exist, but 3 does not.
To me a MMO company is selling software as a service. Like netflix or slacker or google drive or
When you make your money with software as a service why would you charge for the software? It is 90s thinking. I would be like if Slacker radio said we have a 10 dollar a month subscription fee, but you have to pay 60 dollars for the software. What? You make the software, so you have a monopoly on the service, you don't make the software to sell it. You reinvest in the software, so your service will be better than any other offer, you don't invest in the software to charge for it and push out people that were paying for your service.
I actually played one game that was essentially 3, and then a few years went by and they released an expansion and charged for it. Someone just didn't get the idea that they were a service company.
Now why I find free to play companies progressive is that they totally understand a game as a service, where they invest in the software, so you will pay for the service. It invents a product you want to spend money on in a repeating fashion without them having to necessarily make a new piece of software. Which is great, but I don't necessarily think it has to be microtransactions. I just think the idea of a box fee for a service industry is the obsolete part, and the microtransactions part is just one way to go about getting your service charges.
And here is the disconnect. Micro payments and gambling are not one and the same. Ill pay money for a product, and if the price is lower, it might give me incentive to buy more. But I will not pay for a chance at something, no matter the price.
Too true. Subscription based services are really popular. Elder Scrolls Online seems to be doing pretty well despite my original belief it wouldn't do so well with all the F2P games around. I believed this after many other games tried and failed. Maybe
being established first, like Neverwinter is, would give them a foot up in moving to such a model.
Well if they did that they would just stop calling themselves a gas station. Simple name change there.
Actually they are. All micropayment means is a small transaction.
Congratulations, you just turned a gas station into a casino. It will never be the same again.
Is it still a microtransaction if you gamble $1,000+ at once? Its still "gambling." They can be seen as similar in certain situations, but gambling =/= microtransactions.
*facepalm* and that transaction does not have to include random chance. I can make a small transaction and still get exactly what I wanted. Lockbox keys are just a singular type of microtransaction, Its not the sole definition, or even a good example, of it.
Stop trying to make two different things one and the same.
No account-wide mounts on the zen store? Not a chance. That is a good money-maker for cryptic as well as a good investment for new players who want convenience but they have real-life obligations and are unable to grind 6hours per day to get it immediately.
As long as attractive items keep being added to the Zen store, for a flat price, and they offer a good value for how much they cost, then people will accept lockboxes, keys, and other chance-boxes. Once the scale tilts too far to favoring items one must rely on the RNG in order to get, people will become disgusted.
I am hopeful that the devs & management keep their eyes on player sentiment, so as to maintain this delicate balance.
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And casinos make more money than gas stations.
The number of small transactions isn't important. It is the size per payment.
No one said it does.
Yes, player (customer) sentiment is paramount. There are people, like some in this thread, who loathe lockboxes and will never buy them. But do they constitute a majority? I'm sure Cryptic has the numbers. I know they sell a LOT of them. But a lot of players tell me they find the items in the Zen store rather unappealing in general. And with the trade bar/coal change, what good are those lockboxes now if I can easily just buy a purple account wide mount? The Zen market is something I imagine they are giving a hard look at at this time and for very good reason.