That's actually a non-issue in terms of significance. As long as pugs and premades mix (to name only one issue), a leaderboard has no meaning whatsoever.
Never met a premade unless we had a premade amongst ourselves.
We've heard that before, in the end matchmaking stabilized HAMSTER even after 100+ matches. Enough evidence to be skeptical here as well.
The appaling drop of quality as the ELO was reset and new leaderboards came out, actually sort of proves the ELO matchmaking did work. I never realized this myself, until it actually happened. The moment ELO stopped working, every match I played intantly brought me back to mod2 days. The exact same HAMSTER quality teammates, same capfire squatters and quitters, and sam 1000-25 losses.
So, naw, the matchmaking did work. Give it time and I believe the leaderboards will work as well. Very frankly speaking the only reason I see people whining about the boards in the first place, IMO, is because some people are way too sensitive about how they just got pushed back a few pages because they landed in a crappy team. Too much egos, IMO.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Never met a premade unless we had a premade amongst ourselves.
Sort of, that is more a twist of what is happening, and I don't know if what you say can be proven scientifically.
I ended up in a whacky premade world today (same guild tags on people) and i solo queued so i was like, wth...
The fact that if you queue solo and end up with premades nullifies your argument...there was no premade amongst me UNTIL I got in the match. Then the other premade was greater than the one I ended up with which had 2 pugs on it (me and another guy)
I have no desire to end up in such matches...i queue solo for PuG action!
Oh and i'd rather we just had the old scoreboard and nothing more. IDK why we need all this scoreboard nonsense. It just fuels elitist attitudes. Both in PvP and PvE. (as in the dungeon/skirmish scoreboards are silly as well).
There is already two separate queues. If your solo queing and facing a premade, it means there is also a premade on your team as well.
The majority of the time if you solo queue, you will be put into a game with all solo players.
This is complete and utter bull****
I've done nothing but PuG domination since the patch and am closing in on almost 70 domination matches. I have been put on teams against premades about half the time and I know they are premades because I know most of these guys as they're members of well known PvP guilds and I do a hell of a lot of PvP.
Please don't tell me that the 2 9k GS HR's that want to play together in a domination match qualifies the entire group to get steamrolled by a top tier PvP group. That's stupid.
I'm serious here - the matching system is utterly stupid. I have had exactly one game in the last 7 days that was anywhere good, and by good, I mean competitive all the way to the end about who was going to win. Every other match I've played has been a one sided roflstomp affair.
Look, I say this and I have a winning record (I'm giving the roflstomp more often than receiving), and I absolutely hate both states. I don't want to waste my time sitting outside the enemy campfire or sitting at my own. I want to play a match where people's actions actually matter.
I've done nothing but PuG domination since the patch and am closing in on almost 70 domination matches. I have been put on teams against premades about half the time and I know they are premades because I know most of these guys as they're members of well known PvP guilds and I do a hell of a lot of PvP.
Please don't tell me that the 2 9k GS HR's that want to play together in a domination match qualifies the entire group to get steamrolled by a top tier PvP group. That's stupid.
I'm serious here - the matching system is utterly stupid. I have had exactly one game in the last 7 days that was anywhere good, and by good, I mean competitive all the way to the end about who was going to win. Every other match I've played has been a one sided roflstomp affair.
Look, I say this and I have a winning record (I'm giving the roflstomp more often than receiving), and I absolutely hate both states. I don't want to waste my time sitting outside the enemy campfire or sitting at my own. I want to play a match where people's actions actually matter.
they tried that... queues wouldn't pop because their wasn't enough people, so they had to "fix" it because people didn't like waiting a hour for a hour long match.
True pvpers and leaders are able to make pugs win top tier pvp guilds like synergy . L series were a pvp based mmo. Me and my mates were a top rated CP in Eu L2 official servers and i ensure you all . As long you ain't giving up the fight even those premades will lose their cool. Everything in game is related to the infliction of psychological dmg to the others. L2 was and still is an mmo that it's sieges include even more than a thousand players on each side pvping for a territory zone .I doubt any of the NW players got any experience on the l series since it's purely OPEN WORLD PVP - PK escalated mmo with less pve than any other game .Just hit those premades hard . Use your mics in game and coordinate the caps . Split the enemy team and inflict psychological dmg. Coordinate your attacks on priority targets . Provide main assister on the group . Nw pvpers are so extremely low . You all lack the habit of main assisting and team working . Premades are just strong individuals teamed up . Split them and kill them with the superiority of the kitting tech .
True pvpers and leaders are able to make pugs win top tier pvp guilds like synergy . L series were a pvp based mmo. Me and my mates were a top rated CP in Eu L2 official servers and i ensure you all . As long you ain't giving up the fight even those premades will lose their cool. Everything in game is related to the infliction of psychological dmg to the others. L2 was and still is an mmo that it's sieges include even more than a thousand players on each side pvping for a territory zone .I doubt any of the NW players got any experience on the l series since it's purely OPEN WORLD PVP - PK escalated mmo with less pve than any other game .Just hit those premades hard . Use your mics in game and coordinate the caps . Split the enemy team and inflict psychological dmg. Coordinate your attacks on priority targets . Provide main assister on the group . Nw pvpers are so extremely low . You all lack the habit of main assisting and team working . Premades are just strong individuals teamed up . Split them and kill them with the superiority of the kitting tech .
I really want to believe what your saying because its a rousing kind of speech. But really, any << guild names removed >> premade will beat any pug. On the converse I have seen really good << guild names removed >> players try to lead pugs to victory against premades and fail. And that is no real victory for the premade because everyone there knows that one good player deserved a much better team that he got, and that one good player lost because of that team. Its not just synergy, thats an example.
edit: btw when you do enter a pug with a recognizable pvp guild name under your character name, you get focused like you are the only one on the team.
Yeah I just lost ranking after my last 2 wins. It's not my fault you matched me against a crappy team, why am I being punished?
I have to wonder, if I lost ranking, does that mean the other team gained ranking just for getting beat by a better team? Can I just find the 4 worst players in the rankings and run premades with them and gain points by losing?
You could have both lost ranking if others around you gained 'better' victories or losses. It's not binary. Your ranking depends on how everyone on the entire leaderboard is doing.
I got crushed with a PuG against a premade. While basecamping they offered 1v1 or even 3 of us against one of them. I did 2 1v1 matches and I killed them without a problem (their HR I killed allmost with one combo). I feel sorry for decent players getting crushed by pure overhelming force.
90% goes premade over PuG and the rest is lucky PuGs with 2 or 3 good players and a mediocre premade. I never saw a full BIS PvP guild premade even stuggle against a PuG and I dont think, that they will ever lose.
The leaderboard and maybe the pvp campaign lead to counter-intuitive fights.
"Don't release, let me revive you" someone said at beginning of Domination session. Guy kept following teammates and waiting for their death (and not fighting himself ofc b/c then the teammates would die less often and he would get less revives). Usually he would die as well in the process, way before the teammate is actually revived. Dunno if it counts for the pvp campaign.
The leaderboard and maybe the pvp campaign lead to counter-intuitive fights.
"Don't release, let me revive you" someone said at beginning of Domination session. Guy kept following teammates and waiting for their death (and not fighting himself ofc b/c then the teammates would die less often and he would get less revives). Usually he would die as well in the process, way before the teammate is actually revived. Dunno if it counts for the pvp campaign.
I played something like 4-6 GG matches yesterday. I was yelling at clerics to stop healing me because I was trying to get those 300 kills/assists while being at 1/2 life stat
Leader board means nothing other than who can play the most pvp! It is useless.
Until ELO works and that is used as the basis for the leader board rank means nothing!
Leaderboard has serious flaws, but as things stay now, I see << guild names removed >> recognized PvPers on the first pages.
Overall, I'd say the leaderboard tells the truth about players skill. Can you put together a premade that can beat a CS or ET A-Team? I honestly doubt that. So they are where they belong.
What leaderboard is bad at showing is the fact that many of the people on top have exaggerated their rankings (not all however), by procedures I cannot mention on forums. And most of them always, always run in 3 Rank 10 GWFs teams, and a perma, and a HR. It's basically trying to assure a win at all costs.
Very cheesy and desperate, but this is what we have: premades stomping and rankings being padded artificially.
Leaderboard has serious flaws, but as things stay now, I see << guild names removed >> recognized PvPers on the first pages.
Overall, I'd say the leaderboard tells the truth about players skill. Can you put together a premade that can beat a CS or ET A-Team? I honestly doubt that. So they are where they belong.
What leaderboard is bad at showing is the fact that many of the people on top have exaggerated their rankings (not all however), by procedures I cannot mention on forums. And most of them always, always run in 3 Rank 10 GWFs teams, and a perma, and a HR. It's basically trying to assure a win at all costs.
Very cheesy and desperate, but this is what we have: premades stomping and rankings being padded artificially.
You're saying the Leaderboard is accurate while actually bringing up evidence for the exact opposite.
Players that premade and pad stats land on top. It says absolutely nothing about the individual skill of anyone. Also, players that PVP a lot are ranked higher no matter win or lose. PVP guilds tend to PVP a lot. Found some causation?
You're saying the Leaderboard is accurate while actually bringing up evidence for the exact opposite.
Players that premade and pad stats land on top. It says absolutely nothing about the individual skill of anyone. Also, players that PVP a lot are ranked higher no matter win or lose. PVP guilds tend to PVP a lot. Found some causation?
Yes it's quite a paradox. While the leaderboard is currently exploited a lot, it also shows the best PvPers on top. I know most of them from running many premades with or against them, and I can tell you that the names that are on top are very good players, with few exceptions.
There are indeed some not-that-good PvPers on first ten pages, this is the result of running OP premades consistently and padding the stats. Also there are some of the best PvPers in the game that didn't put a lot of effort and consideration in their games (i.e. they solo pugged, dropped 10 pages etc.), so they are much lower than others, but still in first 20 pages usually.
It is true that the more you play the more you go up, excepting pug smashing, which will drop your rank like nothing. Also if you don't play a few days you will drop. Because we must punish real life obligations! People should play our game 24/7!
Real easy, everyone would love it, would be a fairly accurate representation of skill/commitment.
"We call it a "Ladder" because each member holds a unique rank or "rung" that represents their standing among other members. The highest-ranked member holds the #1 Ladder position; someone ranked #2 is ranked below the #1 member. The goal is to "climb" the Ladder all the way to the top!
When you first join you are placed in an "unranked" category on the Ladder, and you become "ranked" after winning your first Ladder match. When you defeat a higher-ranked member, you move up in rank half the distance between their rank and your own. For example, if you are ranked #50 and you defeat the #1-ranked member, then your new rank would be #25. Your rank on the Ladder does not go down if you lose a match unless your opponent is ranked DIRECTLY below you. When members ranked below you are victorious against members ranked above you, it's possible the member will jump over you in rank and you will move down one rung."
I think this would be a vast improvement over the excessively shiny but ultimately vague Leaderboard.
Two ques: one for unranked and one for ranked matches. Unranked matches would not count where the ladder is concerned, ranked matches would. The unranked matches would be more like our current pug system and ranked matches would be more like premade vs premade. In fact, if you are serious about ranked matches you would not want to que solo because there would be too many unpredictable variables involved.
Give us:
1. A Ladder.
2. Unranked and ranked ques.
3. Practice area where players can duel 1v1/2v1 whatever.
Give us those three things and I think the pvp community would be happy for years to come. Does anyone agree?
It won't work. because the teams aren't constant. So personal points vary on team composition. Meaning they can only be measure in either damage taken, damage given, points captured and Kills/deaths/assists ratio's. That's no way to measure skill for support classes.
Second, even if it would work, it would ruin Domination. Why? Because people will -even more than they already do with fake opponents- play for themselves and personal points only. Result: Everybody goes to node 1 at the start. Help you fight on node 2 while node 3 is empty? no way. They'll go for node 3. See where this is going?
It works so well for other games that a company has made a ton of money off of providing just this kind of service, this is where the quote came from btw:
It is wins and losses period. Winning or losing Domination is the only true measure of skill at Domination. It works for individuals, it works for teams. I know because I played on a team on that very ladder system for years. 5v5 simply means that when you win, the win counts against everyone on that team who was ranked higher than you on the ladder. It is very simple.
Teams don't stay the same, that is true. In pugs. In premades, in my experience, it is always the same 5-10 people. That is why there would be ranked q and an unranked q.
If it is pure wins and losses in a ladder system, there is no exploiting it. You are not going to grind and farm and pay and play and work for months to get to the top 100 or whatever just to give up that spot to a friend or an alt.
The personal points rank system needs to go. It is too complicated in all the wrong ways. Wins and losses period. Simple.
As HR and with about now 1500 kills, 800 deaths, over 3000 assists and over 200 (50/50 wil/loss) matchs played all in pugs, Im (Syncro) in the first page for all stats (except deaths) so I think I can give some advice.
The ELO match system work well for me, but there are some problems related to mach mechanis for melee/ranged classes. The pugs with ranged class lose alot of match becouse they fight outside the base, so the melee have a high advantage, I make alot of kills (with aimed shot is turkey shot), but they take alot of points.
With the stupid nerf of split shot for team with 1/2 HRs is now impossible force to retreat the enemy team and need to kill one by one (95% of HR kills is nad was also before of the nerf with aimed shot). I now use 1/2 split shot for see the enemy with the low resistance and after kill him with 1/2 aimed ahot, but this system is boring as hell; before the nerfing (the real nerf is about 50% and not 25% as declaed) the match was alot more fun and tactical for the my team and enemy team.
Bring back the old split shot and alot of the problems of PvP fight are fixed
HR Syncro - The Equalizer - PvP stats: 10000/4800 (kills/deaths)
Im (Syncro) in the first page for all stats (except deaths) so I think I can give some advice.
[...]
Bring back the old split shot and alot of the problems of PvP fight are fixed
So, you are on the 1st page, yet you want your damage increased again by 33%. Do I understand this right?
So, you are on the 1st page, yet you want your damage increased again by 33%. Do I understand this right?
Guy, the HRs kill 95% of the times with aimed shot, not with split shot... HR dont have good enconter/daily burst damage, but I in one rotation of aimed shot, binding Arrow, costrict Arrow and distruction shot give over 30-35K damage if aimed shot crits... is istagib in 2 seconds for alot of guys... no split shot involved
Im the 2° HR as number of kills, the first HR have more deaths that kills (Im in the first page becouse Im a nerd and play alot, not much skills involved).
I have about 2:1 kills/deaths ratio, but the gaming now is boring as hell
Im now only a kill streak machine... see the guy with the low health.. aimed shot (guy killed), rise and repeat... boring for me and unfair for the playmate that have lowered the healt of the victim.
As I wrote above split shot give to team with 3/4 ranged classes (HR/CW) the possibily to win a match againt premades/pugs of 2 GF, 2 GWF... is frustant and unfair finish a match with 10-15 kills and 0 deaths and lose the match.
HR Syncro - The Equalizer - PvP stats: 10000/4800 (kills/deaths)
Comments
this. /10char
Jugger Conq GF
....
Never met a premade unless we had a premade amongst ourselves.
The appaling drop of quality as the ELO was reset and new leaderboards came out, actually sort of proves the ELO matchmaking did work. I never realized this myself, until it actually happened. The moment ELO stopped working, every match I played intantly brought me back to mod2 days. The exact same HAMSTER quality teammates, same capfire squatters and quitters, and sam 1000-25 losses.
So, naw, the matchmaking did work. Give it time and I believe the leaderboards will work as well. Very frankly speaking the only reason I see people whining about the boards in the first place, IMO, is because some people are way too sensitive about how they just got pushed back a few pages because they landed in a crappy team. Too much egos, IMO.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Sort of, that is more a twist of what is happening, and I don't know if what you say can be proven scientifically.
I ended up in a whacky premade world today (same guild tags on people) and i solo queued so i was like, wth...
The fact that if you queue solo and end up with premades nullifies your argument...there was no premade amongst me UNTIL I got in the match. Then the other premade was greater than the one I ended up with which had 2 pugs on it (me and another guy)
I have no desire to end up in such matches...i queue solo for PuG action!
As I have not had a look at the PvP board, I also have not seen the other one
It must be extremely important to me!
This is complete and utter bull****
I've done nothing but PuG domination since the patch and am closing in on almost 70 domination matches. I have been put on teams against premades about half the time and I know they are premades because I know most of these guys as they're members of well known PvP guilds and I do a hell of a lot of PvP.
Please don't tell me that the 2 9k GS HR's that want to play together in a domination match qualifies the entire group to get steamrolled by a top tier PvP group. That's stupid.
I'm serious here - the matching system is utterly stupid. I have had exactly one game in the last 7 days that was anywhere good, and by good, I mean competitive all the way to the end about who was going to win. Every other match I've played has been a one sided roflstomp affair.
Look, I say this and I have a winning record (I'm giving the roflstomp more often than receiving), and I absolutely hate both states. I don't want to waste my time sitting outside the enemy campfire or sitting at my own. I want to play a match where people's actions actually matter.
they tried that... queues wouldn't pop because their wasn't enough people, so they had to "fix" it because people didn't like waiting a hour for a hour long match.
I really want to believe what your saying because its a rousing kind of speech. But really, any << guild names removed >> premade will beat any pug. On the converse I have seen really good << guild names removed >> players try to lead pugs to victory against premades and fail. And that is no real victory for the premade because everyone there knows that one good player deserved a much better team that he got, and that one good player lost because of that team. Its not just synergy, thats an example.
edit: btw when you do enter a pug with a recognizable pvp guild name under your character name, you get focused like you are the only one on the team.
Jugger Conq GF
....
It's easy in a 1 vs 1 situation. But what about a group situation? Will you take the average rung of the five players?
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Aelar Hawkwind - Archer
Karrin Feywinter - Mistress of Flame
Errin Duskwalker - Executioner
Darquess - Soulbinder
Overpowered 60 CW ~ Thaumaturge 14.5k
==========================================
~ GF Buffs were great we are much better, please fix the bugs now... Thank you!
90% goes premade over PuG and the rest is lucky PuGs with 2 or 3 good players and a mediocre premade. I never saw a full BIS PvP guild premade even stuggle against a PuG and I dont think, that they will ever lose.
"Don't release, let me revive you" someone said at beginning of Domination session. Guy kept following teammates and waiting for their death (and not fighting himself ofc b/c then the teammates would die less often and he would get less revives). Usually he would die as well in the process, way before the teammate is actually revived. Dunno if it counts for the pvp campaign.
I played something like 4-6 GG matches yesterday. I was yelling at clerics to stop healing me because I was trying to get those 300 kills/assists while being at 1/2 life stat
(only like 100 left to go I think!)
Jugger Conq GF
....
equals less happy campers.
Leaderboard has serious flaws, but as things stay now, I see << guild names removed >> recognized PvPers on the first pages.
Overall, I'd say the leaderboard tells the truth about players skill. Can you put together a premade that can beat a CS or ET A-Team? I honestly doubt that. So they are where they belong.
What leaderboard is bad at showing is the fact that many of the people on top have exaggerated their rankings (not all however), by procedures I cannot mention on forums. And most of them always, always run in 3 Rank 10 GWFs teams, and a perma, and a HR. It's basically trying to assure a win at all costs.
Very cheesy and desperate, but this is what we have: premades stomping and rankings being padded artificially.
You're saying the Leaderboard is accurate while actually bringing up evidence for the exact opposite.
Players that premade and pad stats land on top. It says absolutely nothing about the individual skill of anyone. Also, players that PVP a lot are ranked higher no matter win or lose. PVP guilds tend to PVP a lot. Found some causation?
Yes it's quite a paradox. While the leaderboard is currently exploited a lot, it also shows the best PvPers on top. I know most of them from running many premades with or against them, and I can tell you that the names that are on top are very good players, with few exceptions.
There are indeed some not-that-good PvPers on first ten pages, this is the result of running OP premades consistently and padding the stats. Also there are some of the best PvPers in the game that didn't put a lot of effort and consideration in their games (i.e. they solo pugged, dropped 10 pages etc.), so they are much lower than others, but still in first 20 pages usually.
It is true that the more you play the more you go up, excepting pug smashing, which will drop your rank like nothing. Also if you don't play a few days you will drop. Because we must punish real life obligations! People should play our game 24/7!
"We call it a "Ladder" because each member holds a unique rank or "rung" that represents their standing among other members. The highest-ranked member holds the #1 Ladder position; someone ranked #2 is ranked below the #1 member. The goal is to "climb" the Ladder all the way to the top!
When you first join you are placed in an "unranked" category on the Ladder, and you become "ranked" after winning your first Ladder match. When you defeat a higher-ranked member, you move up in rank half the distance between their rank and your own. For example, if you are ranked #50 and you defeat the #1-ranked member, then your new rank would be #25. Your rank on the Ladder does not go down if you lose a match unless your opponent is ranked DIRECTLY below you. When members ranked below you are victorious against members ranked above you, it's possible the member will jump over you in rank and you will move down one rung."
I think this would be a vast improvement over the excessively shiny but ultimately vague Leaderboard.
Two ques: one for unranked and one for ranked matches. Unranked matches would not count where the ladder is concerned, ranked matches would. The unranked matches would be more like our current pug system and ranked matches would be more like premade vs premade. In fact, if you are serious about ranked matches you would not want to que solo because there would be too many unpredictable variables involved.
Give us:
1. A Ladder.
2. Unranked and ranked ques.
3. Practice area where players can duel 1v1/2v1 whatever.
Give us those three things and I think the pvp community would be happy for years to come. Does anyone agree?
Jugger Conq GF
....
It works so well for other games that a company has made a ton of money off of providing just this kind of service, this is where the quote came from btw:
http://www.igl.net/
It is wins and losses period. Winning or losing Domination is the only true measure of skill at Domination. It works for individuals, it works for teams. I know because I played on a team on that very ladder system for years. 5v5 simply means that when you win, the win counts against everyone on that team who was ranked higher than you on the ladder. It is very simple.
Teams don't stay the same, that is true. In pugs. In premades, in my experience, it is always the same 5-10 people. That is why there would be ranked q and an unranked q.
If it is pure wins and losses in a ladder system, there is no exploiting it. You are not going to grind and farm and pay and play and work for months to get to the top 100 or whatever just to give up that spot to a friend or an alt.
The personal points rank system needs to go. It is too complicated in all the wrong ways. Wins and losses period. Simple.
Jugger Conq GF
....
The ELO match system work well for me, but there are some problems related to mach mechanis for melee/ranged classes. The pugs with ranged class lose alot of match becouse they fight outside the base, so the melee have a high advantage, I make alot of kills (with aimed shot is turkey shot), but they take alot of points.
With the stupid nerf of split shot for team with 1/2 HRs is now impossible force to retreat the enemy team and need to kill one by one (95% of HR kills is nad was also before of the nerf with aimed shot). I now use 1/2 split shot for see the enemy with the low resistance and after kill him with 1/2 aimed ahot, but this system is boring as hell; before the nerfing (the real nerf is about 50% and not 25% as declaed) the match was alot more fun and tactical for the my team and enemy team.
Bring back the old split shot and alot of the problems of PvP fight are fixed
Guy, the HRs kill 95% of the times with aimed shot, not with split shot... HR dont have good enconter/daily burst damage, but I in one rotation of aimed shot, binding Arrow, costrict Arrow and distruction shot give over 30-35K damage if aimed shot crits... is istagib in 2 seconds for alot of guys... no split shot involved
Im the 2° HR as number of kills, the first HR have more deaths that kills (Im in the first page becouse Im a nerd and play alot, not much skills involved).
I have about 2:1 kills/deaths ratio, but the gaming now is boring as hell
Im now only a kill streak machine... see the guy with the low health.. aimed shot (guy killed), rise and repeat... boring
As I wrote above split shot give to team with 3/4 ranged classes (HR/CW) the possibily to win a match againt premades/pugs of 2 GF, 2 GWF... is frustant and unfair finish a match with 10-15 kills and 0 deaths and lose the match.