Maybe they could add a system that could allow to party leaders invite a PvP match to another party leader, and if you don't find a party to match with, then just queue to PvP and you may find PUG or premade, but I can't think a way that couldn't affect the time you queue in PvP, cause a change like that will make that a lot of parties will try to search another premades to fight.
This would allow 5 or 10 matches, and then this would turn into glory farming maximizing issue.
If there were no rewards for these kind of matches, then it might work.
Alas, it would not be accepted as there is no reward for playing the match then.
Prediction: nobody would be there after the initial rush, meaning that a lot of DEV and testing time would have been spent for naught.
Imaginary Friends are the best friends you can have!
You really think that 2-2-1 or mixed groups from strong guilds are "pugs"?
Or, for example, more like they meet/ communicate and preform a team? Premades are not only the full guild ones.
For example, if you go to PE during PvP delve you can read the lfg where people look for 14-15k players of specific classes and builds for PvP.
So, forcing people who form a Group and then queue for PvP, to queue in a premade only queue, is extremely fair.
And force the rest of the players to be out of a Group to be able to queue for real pug PvP.
Yes, there are premades that suck or are weak. Then there's the ELO system, coupling them with a comparable premade, if available.
Also: if you pug solo like i do, it's the ELO system that decides the composition of your Group. So, if by chance the Group you mentioned is not a premade (and i would say not a chance such strong players are grouped together randomly, but let's assume that's the case), but is formed automatically by ELO system, then it's to match it with a Group with comparable strenght. Else, the ELO would scramble them and Group them with weaker players.
If your premade is strong, the ELO will form a strong pug to face you. Not a chance the ELO would form a pug with elite PvPers to face a random pug.
Right now, when an elite team faces off a random pug, it's cause they formed a premade, the ELO couldn't find strong enough groups/ players to match them, and eventually coupled them with a random pug.
Just a note: such random pug to face the strong premade, may even be formed by 14-15k GS players, but since GS means not much in PvP, they could just be geared nabs or geared PvE players doing the daily. And they will easily get dominated.
The point is, if people is forced to queue for pug only when out of a Group, it's the system that entirely decides team composition and matchup.
If some people can organize and for premades, be them full-guild or through alliances/ friends/ LFG chat, they have a 100% Assurance that their Group will work at its max, and they have a much higher chance to end up against a weaker team if ELO can't find a proper matchup or if the pug chosen as a matchup has strong individuals but eventually can't work together/ communicate well enough.
Yes, cause another difference from organized premades and pugs is that often they have vocal communication, expecially the ones from top guilds. A full premade from a strong guild going pug can even be matched against other top players. But if the guild has instant communication through teamspeak/ ventrillo exc... and the other team have only the game chat, they have a huge advantage. Example: it's quite different to be able to instantly tell your mates where they are needed and what is happening, or write it in chat. Which is obviously why top guilds require the use of vocal chat for both PvP and PvE.
TBH, I dont think, that they use ELO anymore, the groups I have to play with or against are just to random.
There is a difference in gear and skill between premades and PuGs, but the main difference is tactics. One of the problems is, that the system rewards points for capturing nodes if you are on the node the moment it is captured, resulting in PuG players runnig from node to node to get as much points as possible.
I often PUG with a friend of mine. If he is on his TR he goes to the enemy node, while I go to 2 and after the initial fight we coordinate who goes where, resulting in ca. 80% wins. While we fight almost constantly 2 or 3v1 of us, our teammates are often busy runnig from node to node, to get as much points as possible. If the enemy team is bad or we are lucky, we survive long enough till the train of leeches arrives to capture the node and get the kills. If your points woud depend on the ammount of damage dealt to the killed player or time spend on the captured node, I am sure PuGs woud do better against premades because the game woud reward your contribution to the success, not the success itself, resulting in a more teamoriented playstyle of PuGs.
Dont get me wrong, there are many good PvP players out there running in PuGs, but most of the PuG players seem to think, that they are OP or that they 'carried' their team, because they had the most points at the end of the game.
I had fights, when a perma TR contested the enemy base for ca 5 min against 2 or 3 players until they stopped playing and he did not even get enough points to earn glory. He carried our team and got nothing exept insults from enemy players. Fair? No.
PS. If perma TRs are OP/ an unfair playstyle is another question.^^
One of the ways to fix the pvp that will NEVER be done is instead of making it based off gearscore is a simple division of this team all bought $400 dollars worth of *skill* so they go against others who bought zen, leaveing the true casual players able to be placed against others. because its not the team of premades that rofl stomp pugs, its the people who are riding epic mounts with perfect enchantments.
i had a failry competent team the other day all with gearscores around 13k or higher losing to a full team of about 8k's but they won because of 1 wallet warrior dc who couldnt be brought down by all 5 teammates hitting only him. if your going to make store bought skill put them against other wallet warriors.
Funny things in pvp tonight- was in a pug vs a guild premade, match lasted an hour, we won. It was the most epic pug I'd ever been in. No one on my team was in the same guild.
Also, during pugging, ran into some cool people. Two were from the same guild, everyone else separate guilds but the cleric. The cleric was 5k gs. FIVE K. We won one. We chatted afterwards a bit (imagine that) and it mainly revolved around getting that cleric some better gear. I chipped in some pvp cleric gear, as did the others, gave him a stack of rank 5's (which he thought was amazing, but really for me are just arty fodder). The one guy who seemed like a leader type was actually coaching this dude and the guy was listening. We played another 8 matches and won 7 of them. The 5k guy ended with a gs around 10k and is turning into a solid pvp cleric. So I guess this was a pug that turned into a premade. In the course of it, we each made new friends, learned some things, and had a blast.
What is so hard about that? If you are nice to people and social, and not a jerk, you get friends. Which become a premade. It seems so natural that it is almost odd that it isnt a more normal outcome.
One of the ways to fix the pvp that will NEVER be done is instead of making it based off gearscore is a simple division of this team all bought $400 dollars worth of *skill* so they go against others who bought zen, leaveing the true casual players able to be placed against others. because its not the team of premades that rofl stomp pugs, its the people who are riding epic mounts with perfect enchantments.
i had a failry competent team the other day all with gearscores around 13k or higher losing to a full team of about 8k's but they won because of 1 wallet warrior dc who couldnt be brought down by all 5 teammates hitting only him. if your going to make store bought skill put them against other wallet warriors.
First off, I am not disrespectring you, just telling the truth. No matter how good that DC was, they could not help 4 8k gear score players defeat a full group of 13k+ without there being a total lack of tactics going on. There are 3 nodes and only 1 uber (hehe) dc .
TBH, I dont think, that they use ELO anymore, the groups I have to play with or against are just to random.
There is a difference in gear and skill between premades and PuGs, but the main difference is tactics. One of the problems is, that the system rewards points for capturing nodes if you are on the node the moment it is captured, resulting in PuG players runnig from node to node to get as much points as possible.
I often PUG with a friend of mine. If he is on his TR he goes to the enemy node, while I go to 2 and after the initial fight we coordinate who goes where, resulting in ca. 80% wins. While we fight almost constantly 2 or 3v1 of us, our teammates are often busy runnig from node to node, to get as much points as possible. If the enemy team is bad or we are lucky, we survive long enough till the train of leeches arrives to capture the node and get the kills. If your points woud depend on the ammount of damage dealt to the killed player or time spend on the captured node, I am sure PuGs woud do better against premades because the game woud reward your contribution to the success, not the success itself, resulting in a more teamoriented playstyle of PuGs.
Dont get me wrong, there are many good PvP players out there running in PuGs, but most of the PuG players seem to think, that they are OP or that they 'carried' their team, because they had the most points at the end of the game.
I had fights, when a perma TR contested the enemy base for ca 5 min against 2 or 3 players until they stopped playing and he did not even get enough points to earn glory. He carried our team and got nothing exept insults from enemy players. Fair? No.
PS. If perma TRs are OP/ an unfair playstyle is another question.^^
I definitely think the elo is turned on and working but dialed way down until the devs can better balance tighter matchmaking with que times. I say this because when I win a lot I get tougher teams, when I lose a lot, I get easier teams. When I run with a full guild premade it is 8 of 10 pretty good teams.
I definitely think the elo is turned on and working but dialed way down until the devs can better balance tighter matchmaking with que times. I say this because when I win a lot I get tougher teams, when I lose a lot, I get easier teams. When I run with a full guild premade it is 8 of 10 pretty good teams.
That is my take as well. Compared to before the big pvp changes, it is still way, way better than those days in terms of overall PuG match game quality. However, as overdrive mentions I do notice a certain change in the trend of how people are grouped up.
For me, there had been a perfect "sweet spot" -- at least that fitsr my personal taste -- a few months back where the average queue time was longer than recent, usually around 3~5 minutes wait per match... but almost every game was well balanced. Nowadays the queue time is almos as fast as before the patch, but at the same time the variance in the teammates you get are much larger.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I prefer a very strict matchmaking. If there are no equal players to go against, then you can't play at that very moment. Given same skill, the players of premades will always have a better rating than solos, so they will soon run into very long queue times or don't find anybody to play against at all and have to switch chars or try solo themselves.
There would never be any PvP matches prior to 60 then.
I guess i could always twink up some gear and just not use it unless there were other twinks on the other team. I don't mind the purple weapons, i mean they were designed for twinking. It's the full on enchants and arties that i would be afraid of.
I kinda wish domination pvp was like gw2, where you have a pool of gear to choose from and everyone has to use it. Oh well , it's faster to level in pve anyways.
So be it. It's fair. Pre-60 is completely broken anyway. Good chance you run into a premade with pvorps.
Leveling a 2nd toon, i noticed this a lot.
On my lvl 60 GWF, even if my gear is not BiS, i can fight and hold my own, and even win, against more geared GWFs/GFs/ TRs/HRs/CWs exc..., since we're still all with epics and all have weapon and armor enchants.
In low level PvP, my impression is that mulhorand stuff broke the balance. For a "regular" lvl 30-50 toon the standard was, and usually is, blue stuff and green stuff, with enchants. And your first artifact.
So you basically have overgeared alts of top players or credit card newcomers who can afford to throw 100-150k AD (the CW mulhorand weapin is at 100k AD) and either switch enchant from their main or buy one for the alt/ new toon, against regular players in green and blues, and no weapon enchant.
On top of, i'd say, these guys already having rank 7's or higher on alts already, which makes an even bigger difference at low levels.
That's pretty much why low level PvP is currently broken. You can reach a difference in gear that is much bigger than what you can find in lvl 60 PvP.
Plus, more than vorps i think the best enchant is plaguefire. At lower levels crit chance and damage is much lower, so vorpals have less effect. A GPlagueFire instead, lowers defense while it is still in the pre-soft cap zone, where even a 1% defense means a lot of DR.
Concerning twinked out alts: I think a lot of this will start to fade away with the release of IWD and established pvp players having something new to do with their favorite characters and a whole pvp realm that cannot be accessed by total newcomers. People twink (I do anyways) to speed up the leveling and gearing process. Glory at lower levels isnt much, but when you are leveling a character solely through pvp and every fight is a win, it adds up. Yes it gives me an unfair advantage, but the flip side is twinking brand new players. When you are brand new at Neverwinter, a stack of 99 rank 5 enchants goes a long way, as well as good blue gear and some advice on stacking stats.
Yes, cause another difference from organized premades and pugs is that often they have vocal communication, expecially the ones from top guilds. A full premade from a strong guild going pug can even be matched against other top players. But if the guild has instant communication through teamspeak/ ventrillo exc... and the other team have only the game chat, they have a huge advantage. Example: it's quite different to be able to instantly tell your mates where they are needed and what is happening, or write it in chat. Which is obviously why top guilds require the use of vocal chat for both PvP and PvE.
Most players that want to roll pugs for easy glory run premades and have all perfects.
They are after max gain for less time.they don't even want competition.Just easy wins.
Its kinda sad but I see more and more of this kind play in domination games lately.
If they separated the queues to solo and premade queues they would not be able to do this and would be forced to play semi equally skilled teams all on voice chat with high end gear.
Why don't players want challenge? I mean some do for sure but it seems more and more group are just there to roll pugs for easy glory wins.
Its kinda like people who can play a game in god mode with zero risk and have fun knowing they cant die.
I never could understand that thinking.
It also seems to me the elo system is not on any more and hasn't been on for a while.
Most players that want to roll pugs for easy glory run premades and have all perfects.
They are after max gain for less time.they don't even want competition.Just easy wins.
Its kinda sad but I see more and more of this kind play in domination games lately.
If they separated the queues to solo and premade queues they would not be able to do this and would be forced to play semi equally skilled teams all on voice chat with high end gear.
Why don't players want challenge? I mean some do for sure but it seems more and more group are just there to roll pugs for easy glory wins.
Its kinda like people who can play a game in god mode with zero risk and have fun knowing they cant die.
I never could understand that thinking.
It also seems to me the elo system is not on any more and hasn't been on for a while.
Solo and premade queues currently don't mix. Whatever thrashed your team was another PuG, not a premade.
When you do actually meet premades, look up the profile of your own team and you'll most certainly notice that some people in your team are 2-man or 3-man premades, which is usually more than 90%+ of the reason why some people seem to be unwittingly dragged into a fight against the top level premade teams.
It is almost guaranteed that if you make even a 2-man premade, you're going to end up facing all of the major pvp guild premade teams operating at the same timezone again and again.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Solo and premade queues currently don't mix. Whatever thrashed your team was another PuG, not a premade.
When you do actually meet premades, look up the profile of your own team and you'll most certainly notice that some people in your team are 2-man or 3-man premades, which is usually more than 90%+ of the reason why some people seem to be unwittingly dragged into a fight against the top level premade teams.
It is almost guaranteed that if you make even a 2-man premade, you're going to end up facing all of the major pvp guild premade teams operating at the same timezone again and again.
Because some people think the reason they lost so hilariously to another team is because they they were fighting against premades --which is highly unlikely.
Since after the big PvP patch, which was quite some months ago, I've never, ever met any premades when in a PuG. Even in the oddest hours of the night, if I queue as PuG, then I meet PuGs. And with almost 100% certainty, in those very same odd hours, if I ever get mixed up with any premades (2man or 3man) in my own team, then surely enough, the very next fight I see a horde of <SYNERGY> signs or <EoA> signs or <SERAPHIM> or <TURK ORDUSU> or what not signs floating over the heads of our opponents en masse.
Sometimes, two people (friends usually) from different guilds team up as a 2-man premade, and you can unknowingly be teamed up with them. It is in these cases you most often meet an enemy team with the same 2-man premades, only those 2 people are highly likely from a very powerful PvP guild/guilds. It is usually in these cases where people get the feeling the matching system screwed you over, when it is more likely not.
This can be confirmed from the other side -- the premade side -- as well. When you queue as a large premade group, 4~5 men premades, your waiting time is significantly longer than a PuG queue. If the ELO just simply matched any premade with any available PuG, this would not be so.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Strangely enough do players always only complain about premades when they got beaten into the ground by these. I have yet to see a party of pugs who complained about it after having beaten premades into the ground ...
Anyhow, what PvP needs is a Surrender-option. Why and how a match was lost and who is to blame is really uninteresting, but when everyone then stands around the fire and the crying starts is it too late. If only one could end a match by surrendering to the other side, for whatever reason, and end the matches fast then everyone could get on quicker and there would be a lot less idle crying and finger pointing at the fires.[/QU
Now this seam sence, if your team is realy bad, and not working together and running all direction whats the point, PVP is team i am, losing it with que system, my team 8k gs with green and blue, other team 12k gs plus whats equal about this ???
Its not just those mulhorand weapons, you are facing opponents who have rank 10s, perfect vorpals, epic/rare rings plus an extensive PVP experience from weeks of playing.
Its not just those mulhorand weapons, you are facing opponents who have rank 10s, perfect vorpals, epic/rare rings plus an extensive PVP experience from weeks of playing.
We can't have people having more EXPERIENCE than new players, it just makes it darn unfair! Seriously though, weeks of playing is imo not really extensive experience. Maybe that would be better measured in hours? If so I would say about a thousand hours of pvp makes an experienced player- if you even play 80 hours a week for a month it doesnt get you close.
Putting rank 10's and perfects on a brand new alt is a rich persons amusement I would think. Mostly I think people dont go much higher than rank 8's with mul weapons and blue gear and greater armor and weapon enchants. I guess that is bad enough but really so many experienced players say they dont bother to gear up their new alts till they hit 60 anyways, "when the game really starts".
Putting rank 10's and perfects on a brand new alt is a rich persons amusement I would think. Mostly I think people dont go much higher than rank 8's with mul weapons and blue gear and greater armor and weapon enchants. I guess that is bad enough but really so many experienced players say they dont bother to gear up their new alts till they hit 60 anyways, "when the game really starts".
Which is a very simply addressed problem, used commonly by all sorts of games in the market.
Just link the rank of enchantments to item level(=player level) and problem solved. For example, rare ranks(R5 and R6) can only be fit from item level 31 and above, epic ranks (R7 and above) can be only fit from item rank 60. Same limitations applying to weapon/armour enchantments as well, so lesser grade can be fitted to any level, normal grade needing item rank 30 or above, greater and perfect grade needing item rank 60 and above.
Frankly, I use mulhorand weapons as well as higher enchantments because, yes, it does provide me with an edge in combat, and preparing yourself in terms of spec/performance/gear is like half of what makes up PvP. However, if the item rank limits enchantment ranks, no biggy for me. In my case, my justification is that there are others do the same thing, and to whoop their arses I need the same amount of gear. Since a overall limitation would block off others from doing this, then no complaints from me whatsoever.
The only people who'd ever complain against a change like this would be PvP/PvErs who specifically want to dominate other players/level-range PvE content with overpowering performance gap.
Stop making excuses. Be a man. If you know something to be broken, stop using it. Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Which is a very simply addressed problem, used commonly by all sorts of games in the market.
Just link the rank of enchantments to item level(=player level) and problem solved. For example, rare ranks(R5 and R6) can only be fit from item level 31 and above, epic ranks (R7 and above) can be only fit from item rank 60. Same limitations applying to weapon/armour enchantments as well, so lesser grade can be fitted to any level, normal grade needing item rank 30 or above, greater and perfect grade needing item rank 60 and above.
Frankly, I use mulhorand weapons as well as higher enchantments because, yes, it does provide me with an edge in combat, and preparing yourself in terms of spec/performance/gear is like half of what makes up PvP. However, if the item rank limits enchantment ranks, no biggy for me. In my case, my justification is that there are others do the same thing, and to whoop their arses I need the same amount of gear. Since a overall limitation would block off others from doing this, then no complaints from me whatsoever.
The only people who'd ever complain against a change like this would be PvP/PvErs who specifically want to dominate other players/level-range PvE content with overpowering performance gap.
I feel the same way, I do it because I can and to compete against others who do it. I would not care at all if there was a level limit to enchants. I would even advocate it if it was at all something being taken into consideration by the devs. Pre level 60 matches would be more fun and more competitive, and some folks would not get traumatized after they breezed through 1-60 with their rank 10's and perfects and then hit 60 and got spanked when things tend to level out gear wise but the skill gap grows exponentially.
Which is a very simply addressed problem, used commonly by all sorts of games in the market.
Just link the rank of enchantments to item level(=player level) and problem solved. For example, rare ranks(R5 and R6) can only be fit from item level 31 and above, epic ranks (R7 and above) can be only fit from item rank 60. Same limitations applying to weapon/armour enchantments as well, so lesser grade can be fitted to any level, normal grade needing item rank 30 or above, greater and perfect grade needing item rank 60 and above.
Frankly, I use mulhorand weapons as well as higher enchantments because, yes, it does provide me with an edge in combat, and preparing yourself in terms of spec/performance/gear is like half of what makes up PvP. However, if the item rank limits enchantment ranks, no biggy for me. In my case, my justification is that there are others do the same thing, and to whoop their arses I need the same amount of gear. Since a overall limitation would block off others from doing this, then no complaints from me whatsoever.
The only people who'd ever complain against a change like this would be PvP/PvErs who specifically want to dominate other players/level-range PvE content with overpowering performance gap.
Comments
If there were no rewards for these kind of matches, then it might work.
Alas, it would not be accepted as there is no reward for playing the match then.
Prediction: nobody would be there after the initial rush, meaning that a lot of DEV and testing time would have been spent for naught.
Aye. That is the more likely explanation for mixed groups -- particularly during non-prime time hours.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Good points and now I am really inclined to agree you. I stated this before though:
http://nw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?652381-Most-important-PvP-change-still-hasn-t-happened-Pugs-and-Premades-should-never-mix&p=7794581&viewfull=1#post7794581
Again, would rather have a League than just a "premade q".
Jugger Conq GF
....
There is a difference in gear and skill between premades and PuGs, but the main difference is tactics. One of the problems is, that the system rewards points for capturing nodes if you are on the node the moment it is captured, resulting in PuG players runnig from node to node to get as much points as possible.
I often PUG with a friend of mine. If he is on his TR he goes to the enemy node, while I go to 2 and after the initial fight we coordinate who goes where, resulting in ca. 80% wins. While we fight almost constantly 2 or 3v1 of us, our teammates are often busy runnig from node to node, to get as much points as possible. If the enemy team is bad or we are lucky, we survive long enough till the train of leeches arrives to capture the node and get the kills. If your points woud depend on the ammount of damage dealt to the killed player or time spend on the captured node, I am sure PuGs woud do better against premades because the game woud reward your contribution to the success, not the success itself, resulting in a more teamoriented playstyle of PuGs.
Dont get me wrong, there are many good PvP players out there running in PuGs, but most of the PuG players seem to think, that they are OP or that they 'carried' their team, because they had the most points at the end of the game.
I had fights, when a perma TR contested the enemy base for ca 5 min against 2 or 3 players until they stopped playing and he did not even get enough points to earn glory. He carried our team and got nothing exept insults from enemy players. Fair? No.
PS. If perma TRs are OP/ an unfair playstyle is another question.^^
i had a failry competent team the other day all with gearscores around 13k or higher losing to a full team of about 8k's but they won because of 1 wallet warrior dc who couldnt be brought down by all 5 teammates hitting only him. if your going to make store bought skill put them against other wallet warriors.
Great job!
First off, I am not disrespectring you, just telling the truth. No matter how good that DC was, they could not help 4 8k gear score players defeat a full group of 13k+ without there being a total lack of tactics going on. There are 3 nodes and only 1 uber (hehe) dc .
I definitely think the elo is turned on and working but dialed way down until the devs can better balance tighter matchmaking with que times. I say this because when I win a lot I get tougher teams, when I lose a lot, I get easier teams. When I run with a full guild premade it is 8 of 10 pretty good teams.
Jugger Conq GF
....
That is my take as well. Compared to before the big pvp changes, it is still way, way better than those days in terms of overall PuG match game quality. However, as overdrive mentions I do notice a certain change in the trend of how people are grouped up.
For me, there had been a perfect "sweet spot" -- at least that fitsr my personal taste -- a few months back where the average queue time was longer than recent, usually around 3~5 minutes wait per match... but almost every game was well balanced. Nowadays the queue time is almos as fast as before the patch, but at the same time the variance in the teammates you get are much larger.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
So be it. It's fair. Pre-60 is completely broken anyway. Good chance you run into a premade with pvorps.
I was thinking of raising another character through pvp, is the twinking really that bad? or just occasional?
Due to the lack of new actual players in lower levels, you can rest assured that in ever game there are a couple
is there even more than 2 people not using the purple weapons anyways?
Yes there are more than 2 people not using purples. Probably around in the area of 4-6 out of the 10
I kinda wish domination pvp was like gw2, where you have a pool of gear to choose from and everyone has to use it. Oh well , it's faster to level in pve anyways.
Leveling a 2nd toon, i noticed this a lot.
On my lvl 60 GWF, even if my gear is not BiS, i can fight and hold my own, and even win, against more geared GWFs/GFs/ TRs/HRs/CWs exc..., since we're still all with epics and all have weapon and armor enchants.
In low level PvP, my impression is that mulhorand stuff broke the balance. For a "regular" lvl 30-50 toon the standard was, and usually is, blue stuff and green stuff, with enchants. And your first artifact.
So you basically have overgeared alts of top players or credit card newcomers who can afford to throw 100-150k AD (the CW mulhorand weapin is at 100k AD) and either switch enchant from their main or buy one for the alt/ new toon, against regular players in green and blues, and no weapon enchant.
On top of, i'd say, these guys already having rank 7's or higher on alts already, which makes an even bigger difference at low levels.
That's pretty much why low level PvP is currently broken. You can reach a difference in gear that is much bigger than what you can find in lvl 60 PvP.
Plus, more than vorps i think the best enchant is plaguefire. At lower levels crit chance and damage is much lower, so vorpals have less effect. A GPlagueFire instead, lowers defense while it is still in the pre-soft cap zone, where even a 1% defense means a lot of DR.
Jugger Conq GF
....
Most players that want to roll pugs for easy glory run premades and have all perfects.
They are after max gain for less time.they don't even want competition.Just easy wins.
Its kinda sad but I see more and more of this kind play in domination games lately.
If they separated the queues to solo and premade queues they would not be able to do this and would be forced to play semi equally skilled teams all on voice chat with high end gear.
Why don't players want challenge? I mean some do for sure but it seems more and more group are just there to roll pugs for easy glory wins.
Its kinda like people who can play a game in god mode with zero risk and have fun knowing they cant die.
I never could understand that thinking.
It also seems to me the elo system is not on any more and hasn't been on for a while.
Solo and premade queues currently don't mix. Whatever thrashed your team was another PuG, not a premade.
When you do actually meet premades, look up the profile of your own team and you'll most certainly notice that some people in your team are 2-man or 3-man premades, which is usually more than 90%+ of the reason why some people seem to be unwittingly dragged into a fight against the top level premade teams.
It is almost guaranteed that if you make even a 2-man premade, you're going to end up facing all of the major pvp guild premade teams operating at the same timezone again and again.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
Eh?... then why this topic started?... ¬¬
Because some people think the reason they lost so hilariously to another team is because they they were fighting against premades --which is highly unlikely.
Since after the big PvP patch, which was quite some months ago, I've never, ever met any premades when in a PuG. Even in the oddest hours of the night, if I queue as PuG, then I meet PuGs. And with almost 100% certainty, in those very same odd hours, if I ever get mixed up with any premades (2man or 3man) in my own team, then surely enough, the very next fight I see a horde of <SYNERGY> signs or <EoA> signs or <SERAPHIM> or <TURK ORDUSU> or what not signs floating over the heads of our opponents en masse.
Sometimes, two people (friends usually) from different guilds team up as a 2-man premade, and you can unknowingly be teamed up with them. It is in these cases you most often meet an enemy team with the same 2-man premades, only those 2 people are highly likely from a very powerful PvP guild/guilds. It is usually in these cases where people get the feeling the matching system screwed you over, when it is more likely not.
This can be confirmed from the other side -- the premade side -- as well. When you queue as a large premade group, 4~5 men premades, your waiting time is significantly longer than a PuG queue. If the ELO just simply matched any premade with any available PuG, this would not be so.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
We can't have people having more EXPERIENCE than new players, it just makes it darn unfair! Seriously though, weeks of playing is imo not really extensive experience. Maybe that would be better measured in hours? If so I would say about a thousand hours of pvp makes an experienced player- if you even play 80 hours a week for a month it doesnt get you close.
Putting rank 10's and perfects on a brand new alt is a rich persons amusement I would think. Mostly I think people dont go much higher than rank 8's with mul weapons and blue gear and greater armor and weapon enchants. I guess that is bad enough but really so many experienced players say they dont bother to gear up their new alts till they hit 60 anyways, "when the game really starts".
Jugger Conq GF
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Which is a very simply addressed problem, used commonly by all sorts of games in the market.
Just link the rank of enchantments to item level(=player level) and problem solved. For example, rare ranks(R5 and R6) can only be fit from item level 31 and above, epic ranks (R7 and above) can be only fit from item rank 60. Same limitations applying to weapon/armour enchantments as well, so lesser grade can be fitted to any level, normal grade needing item rank 30 or above, greater and perfect grade needing item rank 60 and above.
Frankly, I use mulhorand weapons as well as higher enchantments because, yes, it does provide me with an edge in combat, and preparing yourself in terms of spec/performance/gear is like half of what makes up PvP. However, if the item rank limits enchantment ranks, no biggy for me. In my case, my justification is that there are others do the same thing, and to whoop their arses I need the same amount of gear. Since a overall limitation would block off others from doing this, then no complaints from me whatsoever.
The only people who'd ever complain against a change like this would be PvP/PvErs who specifically want to dominate other players/level-range PvE content with overpowering performance gap.
If you know something to be broken, stop using it.
Otherwise, you've got no right to be speaking of 'balance.'
I feel the same way, I do it because I can and to compete against others who do it. I would not care at all if there was a level limit to enchants. I would even advocate it if it was at all something being taken into consideration by the devs. Pre level 60 matches would be more fun and more competitive, and some folks would not get traumatized after they breezed through 1-60 with their rank 10's and perfects and then hit 60 and got spanked when things tend to level out gear wise but the skill gap grows exponentially.
Jugger Conq GF
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+1 for an excellent post. I agree on most points.
Devs read this please